Palavers about Qur'aan.
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Wa Salamun alaika
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Brother Mazhar where is translated in your above translation.
Novice
Min signifies a sub-set of a set; on going work is done subset by subset not all at once.
"Foundations of the House" has translation of Min in it.
English "of" is used to indicate a part of something that is normally considered as a whole
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Min signifies a sub-set of a set; on going work is done subset by subset not all at once.
"Foundations of the House" has translation of Min in it.
English "of" is used to indicate a part of something that is normally considered as a whole
Brother Mazhar
Is there a difference between
and
purely linguistically without satisfying a story in the background.
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Do we use English "of" for possession case as well or not? Sorry to bother you but really want to know the difference.
Dear no botheration. Naive questions also help me. I had translated the Ayah just considering the words, their morphology and syntax. But I did not "watch" the scene of on going activity. Visualizing the scene helps better rendition in the target text.
The writing style of Qur'aan is imagery, a figure of speech, which employs words to create mental images in the mind of the reader. It makes the reader feel as if he is present in the very moment, right between the lines. Words that do not stimulate imagination are just symbols sprinkled on a blank piece of paper. Images and emotions are recreated by using vivid descriptions and comparisons with the help of sound words.
The verbal sentence shows to my imagination an on going activity. Gradually raising something from a base reference point. What was he raising plural noun. It means the boundaries that demarcate the sitting area. This is the sub-part of a building. It is perceived as a whole but it has its own sub-parts - its four sides and layers rising from the first layer laid some distance beneath the surface of the Earth.
The commencement of structuring the building - the House is the First layer of foundation. The starting point of is the First layer of foundation stones.
Prepositional phrase relates to the circumstantial clause. The preposition signifies the local and temporal point of departure, the point at which act or state has commenced.
The sentence is so beautifully structured that I can visualize the exact moment they prayed.
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The latter is no sentence since is not valid phrase.
Brother you have done a lot of work as is evident from your web site. You know Arabic very well as you have explained Arabic grammar in your web site as well as in your posts. Please educate me about and
Your opinion is that is not valid phrase. Is it not and ?
is mansub because of the verb
There are many examples of and in the Quran e.g.
In this verse is mansub because of the verb but is a valid and phrase.
Thanks for your time brother.
Novice
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Brother you have done a lot of work as is evident from your web site. You know Arabic very well as you have explained Arabic grammar in your web site as well as in your posts. Please educate me about and
Your opinion is that is not valid phrase. Is it not and ?
is mansub because of the verb
There are many examples of and in the Quran e.g.
In this verse is mansub because of the verb but is a valid and phrase.
Thanks for your time brother.
Novice
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Possessive/Relative Phrase-"the Construct"
We are familiar with the Possessives in English like "my, their, etc" and possessive clitic "-'s". in Arabic represents primarily the association of one Noun with another Noun.
Annexed, attached, or possessed And second Noun is termed as "Annexer", or "Possessor"
- The noun that is possessed comes first, and is called meaning "additive", "attached", "annexed", "appendix"; [this noun is always indefinite, and without nunation -Tanwin)
** The noun that is the possessor comes second/after, and is called ;
*** The first and the second noun worry about their own gender and plurality.
**** If the second noun is definite, the first noun derives its definiteness from the second noun.
***** Since the first noun derives its definiteness from the second definite noun, therefore, in possessive phrase the first noun will never have definite article and nor "nunation/ .
****** The that is the suffix for duality and masculine sound plurality will also drop.
******* The first noun, whatever its grammatical state may be, which is determined by external factors, it will always render the second noun in the genitive case.
We can learn and determine the prepositional, possessive and adjectival phrases, just by carefully focusing on the written pattern of the words of the sentence, whether or not we have those words/nouns in our vocabulary and understand their meanings. A little concentrated effort with couple of sentences is the requisite where after, Insha-Allah our brain will automatically parse the sentence for us simultaneously while reading from the Grand Qur'aan. Remember and believe in Allah's word that it is easy to retain in memory and distinctly comprehend.
Your opinion is that is not valid phrase. Is it not and ?
You can now understand why it is not a valid phrase.
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In this verse is mansub because of the verb but is a valid and phrase.
It is Adjectival Phrase (not possessive phrase visual sign first noun is definite and in possessive phrase first noun is NEVER definite).
In Arabic, a true adjective is a subordinate word indicating a meaning in its principle. The important points to memorize
(a) In Arabic, the noun comes first. The one being described must come first; it is called and also -the one who is described-portrayed. In the above Adjectival Phrase is the -the one who is described-portrayed adjectivally.
(b) The adjective follows the Noun. The description must come second; it is called /adjective. It indicates a meaning in its principle without exception meaning without restrictions, like that of time or other restrictions. It functions as qualitative portrayal of the mentioned noun. Adjective's meaning is not for itself, rather its meaning is found in the noun which it modifies. Most often it is a derivative.
(c) We observed that the ending of both the Noun- and the Adjective- are in accusative case. It is thus obvious that the grammatical case of the Noun is determined by external factors and the case of Adjective will always match it. This is important visible sign to visually recognize Adjectival Phrase.
(d) Unlike Possessive Phrase, both the Nouns are visibly definite. The Noun and Adjective must correspond in definiteness. Both should either be definite or indefinite.
(e) Both nouns should match in plurality; singular, dual, or plural.
(f) Both should match in gender.
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Why do you insert words within brackets not there in the original Arabic?
There's no . It's annoying to read something not given mention of, and nowhere does it say you need to say that phrase every time you mention anyone's name, not even those prophets.
And your translation is bad
How do you make "Wa Esmail Rabbana" into "they prayed"? is the name of Ismail, a person. There's no logic in the translation and I remember it from the sectarians, it doesn't make sense.
Pay attention to that his name is used as a word in the end of the sentence, which is quite interesting considered the linguistic meaning of his name. Listen or hearken is the meaning of it.
And what's the stupid building, why would some building be used in Pagan manner to symbolize the assembly of Abraham?
is based on which means clear or manifest, the is a suffix. It means the mentioned word is manifestly or clearly as such (i.e. of clarity ت.
So no, there's no silly house mentioned in there.
Please translate the sentence what you perceive from it.
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Thank you Mazhar for the refreshing rules for . Now my point was why you have translated as "foundations of the house" when it is not . I understand it as " the foundations from the house".
Min signifies a sub-set of a set; on going work is done subset by subset not all at once.
"Foundations of the House" has translation of Min in it.
English "of" is used to indicate a part of something that is normally considered as a whole
I believe that every word in the Quran is specific and wisely chosen. When "Min" is used it should be translated as "Min" and not as "Of". May be I am missing something.
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Thank you Mazhar for the refreshing rules for . Now my point was why you have translated as "foundations of the house" when it is not . I understand it as " the foundations from the house".
I believe that every word in the Quran is specific and wisely chosen. When "Min" is used it should be translated as "Min" and not as "Of". May be I am missing something.
Pl read reply 12.
Better read it here
Ayah 2124-129 -
Dear no botheration. Naive questions also help me. I had translated the Ayah just considering the words, their morphology and syntax. But I did not "watch" the scene of on going activity. Visualizing the scene helps better rendition in the target text.
The word is "MIn" and the phrase is . Does it mean "from the house" or "of the house"?
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Better read it here
Ayah 2124-129Brother Mazhar here is your translation from your link
And know when earlier Iebra'heim and Iesma'eile were raising the Foundations having commenced building the House , they prayed "Our Sustainer Lord! Kindly grace with Your acceptance our masonry service.
It translates as having commenced building the House
How this translation relates to the Arabic Text in the verse?
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Brother Mazhar here is your translation from your link
And know when earlier Iebra'heim and Iesma'eile were raising the Foundations having commenced building the House , they prayed "Our Sustainer Lord! Kindly grace with Your acceptance our masonry service.
It translates as having commenced building the House
How this translation relates to the Arabic Text in the verse?
The word is "MIn" and the phrase is . Does it mean "from the house" or "of the house"?
Why you are not getting it is because you perhaps overlooked the meanings and use of preposition Min. What is the function of prepositions? It relates the commencement location and time.
"from the house" now place what is being talked about "raised foundations from the house" it will become meaningless.
A prepositional phrase is always related to an entity or clause of a sentence. Prepositions do not impart a meaning on their own, they are understood only when other words are mentioned along with them. In fact, their very purpose is to expose certain attributes in the words around them.
Raising foundation means the commencement of building a house.
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Why you are not getting it is because you perhaps overlooked the meanings and use of preposition Min. What is the function of prepositions? It relates the commencement location and time.
No brother I did not overlook the meanings and use of "Min". But for sure I am not giving it the meanings that satisfy a certain story. We have to see what the words in the Quran are saying rather than imposing our wishes to get certain meanings.
"from the house" now place what is being talked about "raised foundations from the house" it will become meaningless.
That is exactly what I am saying. It becomes meaningless if we take al-bait as a physical stone structure. Is this verse saying something meaningful when we reflect on the words in the sentence "raising foundations from al-bait"?
A prepositional phrase is always related to an entity or clause of a sentence. Prepositions do not impart a meaning on their own, they are understood only when other words are mentioned along with them. In fact, their very purpose is to expose certain attributes in the words around them.
Brother I respectfully disagree with your comment. If words have no meanings on their own then they are useless. Each and every word in the Quran is chosen and used wisely by the Creator and must be meaningful. The preposition "Min" means "from" on its own and is not meaningless.
Raising foundation means the commencement of building a house.
True. Raising foundation is start of constructing a building but "raising foundations from al-bait' is not the same. It conveys different meanings because we cannot raise foundations from an already existing house.
salaam
Novice
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Quote from Mazhar on Today at 032526 AM
A prepositional phrase is always related to an entity or clause of a sentence. Prepositions do not impart a meaning on their own, they are understood only when other words are mentioned along with them. In fact, their very purpose is to expose certain attributes in the words around them.Brother I respectfully disagree with your comment. If words have no meanings on their own then they are useless. Each and every word in the Quran is chosen and used wisely by the Creator and must be meaningful. The preposition "Min" means "from" on its own and is not meaningless.
Did I say words have no meanings? What I said is this
Prepositions do not impart a meaning on their own, they are understood only when other words are mentioned along with them. In fact, their very purpose is to expose certain attributes in the words around them.
And it is true for all languages. Words like "on", "upon", "under" "over" give meanings when they are used with other words.
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Brother I respectfully disagree with your comment. If words have no meanings on their own then they are useless. Each and every word in the Quran is chosen and used wisely by the Creator and must be meaningful. The preposition "Min" means "from" on its own and is not meaningless.
It has meanings only when used with other word. Just utter it before people few times "from" "from" and see what response you get. It is conveying nothing to them.
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Quote from Mazhar on Today at 032526 AM
Raising foundation means the commencement of building a house.True. Raising foundation is start of constructing a building but "raising foundations from al-bait' is not the same. It conveys different meanings because we cannot raise foundations from an already existing house.
What else then you think it means
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It has meanings only when used with other word. Just utter it before people few times "from" "from" and see what response you get. It is conveying nothing to them.
It is true for any word then.
Say "bread" "bread" or "water" "water" or "mazhar" Mazhar" or so on and so forth, before people few times and see what response you get. It is also conveying them nothing. All words have their own meanings and when used in sentences they make a statement.