Palavers about Qur'aan.
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If some thing creates many questions, one option to consider that I am not understanding some statement.
Brother questions, in this case, are raised because canonized translations are not giving satisfactory answers. So next option is to think out of box.
Firstly you thought it means "foundations from the Divine Guidance/System". Now you say, "He was raising the foundations of peace and security for human being".
Purpose of discussion is not to prove that I am right and you are wrong. You are free to stick to your understanding. But please do not play with words. Read again what you have quoted and then read my post again to find out what I said. Peace and security is through following Divine system/guidance not by going around a stone building.
By the way no harm in studying Lane Lexicon on Bait.
If you think that "al-bait=the house" then how you satisfy these questions
The house of God had 360 idols and prophet and his companions used to prostrate facing those idols. They used to go around those idols.
People can get peace and security by going round this cube and kissing a black stone.
No record from non-muslim sources that prophet Ibrahim or his followers performed these rituals in Mecca before Muslim.
Jews and Christians never claimed Mecca as their religious gathering center and never come to perform hajj there as per recorded history - Muslim or non-Muslim.
No proof of even the alleged founder of this house Prophet Ibrahim, living in Mecca other than Muslim sources.
Before Prophet Muhammad birds were sent to save Kaaba but afterwards Kaaba has been attacked many times but no birds came to save it.
The supreme God needs a house on earth. etc. etc.
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Brother questions, in this case, are raised because canonized translations are not giving satisfactory answers. So next option is to think out of box.
Purpose of discussion is not to prove that I am right and you are wrong. You are free to stick to your understanding. But please do not play with words. Read again what you have quoted and then read my post again to find out what I said. Peace and security is through following Divine system/guidance not by going around a stone building.
If you think that "al-bait=the house" then how you satisfy these questions
The house of God had 360 idols and prophet and his companions used to prostrate facing those idols. They used to go around those idols.
People can get peace and security by going round this cube and kissing a black stone.
No record from non-muslim sources that prophet Ibrahim or his followers performed these rituals in Mecca before Muslim.
Jews and Christians never claimed Mecca as their religious gathering center and never come to perform hajj there as per recorded history - Muslim or non-Muslim.
No proof of even the alleged founder of this house Prophet Ibrahim, living in Mecca other than Muslim sources.
Before Prophet Muhammad birds were sent to save Kaaba but afterwards Kaaba has been attacked many times but no birds came to save it.
The supreme God needs a house on earth. etc. etc.
I am not interested in what people gossip and what questions arise in your mind.
We are talking about translating one language text to another language text. Then you are at liberty to visualize anything you wish to visualize.
To help you translating the text, firstly note, how all ayahs begin. They begin with same time adverb. This way of describing is called Alliteration in academics; and it is narrative. You may be aware narrative is account of real-life events.
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I am not interested in what people gossip and what questions arise in your mind.
Brother I do care what questions rise after reading a translation. The Quran is a book of guidance and it should convey the message for all readers.
We are talking about translating one language text to another language text. Then you are at liberty to visualize anything you wish to visualize.
To help you translating the text, firstly note, how all ayahs begin. They begin with same time adverb. This way of describing is called Alliteration in academics; and it is narrative. You may be aware narrative is account of real-life events.
It is very unfortunate that a simple message is made so complicated by terminology and complicated words. The writer says that the Quran is easy ....
5417
The translation of the Arabic text of 2127 word by word is
"and when Ibrahim was raising the foundations from the house...."
It shows the house was already there. That leads to next question that how could the foundations be raised from an existing house.
I understand you do not care what questions arise but what is the use of translation if it cannot satisfy a reader.
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Brother I do care what questions rise after reading a translation. The Quran is a book of guidance and it should convey the message for all readers.
It is very unfortunate that a simple message is made so complicated by terminology and complicated words. The writer says that the Quran is easy ....
5417
The translation of the Arabic text of 2127 word by word is
"and when Ibrahim was raising the foundations from the house...."
It shows the house was already there. That leads to next question that how could the foundations be raised from an existing house.
I understand you do not care what questions arise but what is the use of translation if it cannot satisfy a reader.
Why not you come forward with that which yu think the text of these Ayah means?
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Please see it is no sentence. Make it a complete sentence and event starting from 2124 to get an idea what is being talked about therein.
Ok brother I will try in shaa Allah
and when gave opportunity to develop potentials Ibrahim his Rub with some commands and he completed them He said I am making you for mankind a leader he said and from my progeny He said does not reach my promise to those who deviate from the right path.
and when we made the system that bring together mankind and peace giving and attain from the stature of Ibrahim a following and we insisted to Ibrahim and Ismail that purify my system for those who keep vigil and resolve problems and who submit.
and when said Ibrahim my Rub make this land peace giving and provide its people from fruits who believe among them with Allah and the accountability He said and who reject then I will provide him a little then drag him to punishment of fire and a vile end of journey.
and when raising Ibrahim the foundations from the system and Ismail our Rub accept from us you the listener the knowledgeable.
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Okay.
Firstly Allah made the system.
And then Ibrahim (as) started raising the foundations from the system.
Yes Allah SWT made the system and revealed it to Ibrahim. Mankind has always received guidance from Allah SWT through His messengers.
Ibrahim raised foundations from the system for mankind to follow. That is how mankind can adopt Ibrahim's stature for following.
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Yes Allah SWT made the system and revealed it to Ibrahim. Mankind has always received guidance from Allah SWT through His messengers.
Ibrahim raised foundations from the system for mankind to follow. That is how mankind can adopt Ibrahim's stature for following.
So "al-bait" means system and system means guidance; and guidance has foundations which are raised from it. And it has become stature of Ibrahim (as).
What a mysterious method of explaining guidance.
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So "al-bait" means system and system means guidance; and guidance has foundations which are raised from it. And it has become stature of Ibrahim (as).
What a mysterious method of explaining guidance.
May be al-bait means Kaaba (a black stone cube) and kaaba means guidance and kaaba has foundations which were raised from al-bait. And it has become foot print of Ibrahim on a white stone.
What a pagan way of explaining guidance.
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May be al-bait means Kaaba (a black stone cube) and kaaba means guidance and kaaba has foundations which were raised from al-bait. And it has become foot print of Ibrahim on a white stone.
What a pagan way of explaining guidance.
Beacon of guidance. Have you heard about beacons? Or source of inspiration?
Al-Bait means nothing but house. Check all its uses, and see if anywhere it means anything else than house.
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Could it be that the bait by itself or muharrama were not just one but that there can be one in each city or place.Like there is a city hall in every city or even a mosque or a main mosque in every city or place, so that there is not one for the whole world, but the whole world has one and everybody is always close to one.
Ka3bas, cubes there are in many places it seems that Yem is full of them and there are very old ones, so a ka3aba was not a unique place but there were in many other places.
Salaam
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Could it be that the bait by itself or muharrama were not just one but that there can be one in each city or place.Like there is a city hall in every city or even a mosque or a main mosque in every city or place, so that there is not one for the whole world, but the whole world has one and everybody is always close to one.
Ka3bas, cubes there are in many places it seems that Yem is full of them and there are very old ones, so a ka3aba was not a unique place but there were in many other places.
Salaam
The definite article prefixed to a noun renders it a unique and singular entity.
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No, I kjnow about the definite article, but there are instances where the things i known and you the not especify even a particular entity and you assume it is the lcosest one, either in the speech or in the common understanding.
It is so when somebody says "filbeit". It can be your house, my house, whatever comes closer to the understanding of which beit you are meaning. It doesn't matter whether there are thousands of beit.
It is the same when in times or trouble you are advised to stay fil beit, there is not a beit for everybody, which they share, but everyone has her house. So you see it is not a question of a definite article.
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No, I kjnow about the definite article, but there are instances where the things i known and you the not especify even a particular entity and you assume it is the lcosest one, either in the speech or in the common understanding.
It is so when somebody says "filbeit". It can be your house, my house, whatever comes closer to the understanding of which beit you are meaning. It doesn't matter whether there are thousands of beit.
It is the same when in times or trouble you are advised to stay fil beit, there is not a beit for everybody, which they share, but everyone has her house. So you see it is not a question of a definite article.
Basic attribute of definite noun is that both the speaker and listener/ writer and reader are aware about the particular entity referred by definite noun. It is universally held understanding.
In case of some emergency when you listen "stay fil beit" you understand the instruction, keep staying in the house where you are in at the moment; not to move out of the house.
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Brother lets see how traditional translations create questions when al-bait=the house
Beacon of guidance. Have you heard about beacons? Or source of inspiration?
Al-Bait means nothing but house. Check all its uses, and see if anywhere it means anything else than house.
396-97
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SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Indeed, the first House established for mankind was that at Makkah - blessed and a guidance for the worlds.So the first house was made for the people. How many houses were made after that? The ayat does not say that "the only house but the first house"
How a house becomes a guidance for the worlds?
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SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
In it are clear signs the standing place of Abraham. And whoever enters it shall be safe. And to Allah from the people is a pilgrimage to the House - for whoever is able to find thereto a way. But whoever disbelieves - then indeed, Allah is free from need of the worlds.What are the clear signs in the bait? There are only pillars and few decorations inside kaaba.
Can people enter kaaba to become safe? How kaaba can give safety to people?
What the root means and how it got the meaning of pilgrimage?
How Allah's need can be fulfilled by visiting kaaba?
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The definite article prefixed to a noun renders it a unique and singular entity.
396
If al-naas is a singular entity as per your quote does it mean that (if we take hajj=pilgrimage) hajj is for every person who has ability to get their whether a Muslim or not?
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The restriction imposed is for the Mushrikeen - Polytheists.
That was not my question. Let me copy it again
396
If al-naas is a singular entity as per your quote does it mean that (if we take hajj=pilgrimage) hajj is for every person who has ability to get there whether a Muslim or not?
Question is to whom the term is referring to in this ayat?
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If you were referring to this ayat then it is using for restriction not