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  4. Palavers about Qur'aan.

Palavers about Qur'aan.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • N Offline
    N Offline
    Novice
    wrote on last edited by
    #46

    Please see it is no sentence. Make it a complete sentence and event starting from 2124 to get an idea what is being talked about therein.

    Ok brother I will try in shaa Allah

    and when gave opportunity to develop potentials Ibrahim his Rub with some commands and he completed them He said I am making you for mankind a leader he said and from my progeny He said does not reach my promise to those who deviate from the right path.

    and when we made the system that bring together mankind and peace giving and attain from the stature of Ibrahim a following and we insisted to Ibrahim and Ismail that purify my system for those who keep vigil and resolve problems and who submit.

    and when said Ibrahim my Rub make this land peace giving and provide its people from fruits who believe among them with Allah and the accountability He said and who reject then I will provide him a little then drag him to punishment of fire and a vile end of journey.

    and when raising Ibrahim the foundations from the system and Ismail our Rub accept from us you the listener the knowledgeable.

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    • M Offline
      M Offline
      Mazhar
      wrote on last edited by
      #47

      Okay.

      Firstly Allah made the system.

      And then Ibrahim (as) started raising the foundations from the system.

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      • N Offline
        N Offline
        Novice
        wrote on last edited by
        #48

        Okay.

        Firstly Allah made the system.

        And then Ibrahim (as) started raising the foundations from the system.

        Yes Allah SWT made the system and revealed it to Ibrahim. Mankind has always received guidance from Allah SWT through His messengers.

        Ibrahim raised foundations from the system for mankind to follow. That is how mankind can adopt Ibrahim's stature for following.

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        • M Offline
          M Offline
          Mazhar
          wrote on last edited by
          #49

          Yes Allah SWT made the system and revealed it to Ibrahim. Mankind has always received guidance from Allah SWT through His messengers.

          Ibrahim raised foundations from the system for mankind to follow. That is how mankind can adopt Ibrahim's stature for following.

          So "al-bait" means system and system means guidance; and guidance has foundations which are raised from it. And it has become stature of Ibrahim (as).

          What a mysterious method of explaining guidance.

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          • N Offline
            N Offline
            Novice
            wrote on last edited by
            #50

            So "al-bait" means system and system means guidance; and guidance has foundations which are raised from it. And it has become stature of Ibrahim (as).

            What a mysterious method of explaining guidance.

            May be al-bait means Kaaba (a black stone cube) and kaaba means guidance and kaaba has foundations which were raised from al-bait. And it has become foot print of Ibrahim on a white stone.

            What a pagan way of explaining guidance.

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            • M Offline
              M Offline
              Mazhar
              wrote on last edited by
              #51

              May be al-bait means Kaaba (a black stone cube) and kaaba means guidance and kaaba has foundations which were raised from al-bait. And it has become foot print of Ibrahim on a white stone.

              What a pagan way of explaining guidance.

              Beacon of guidance. Have you heard about beacons? Or source of inspiration?

              Al-Bait means nothing but house. Check all its uses, and see if anywhere it means anything else than house.

              http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/03.92-9.gif

              http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.097.gif
              http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/014.%20Ibrahim%20alahissalam/14.37.gif

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              • H Offline
                H Offline
                huruf
                wrote on last edited by
                #52

                Could it be that the bait by itself or muharrama were not just one but that there can be one in each city or place.Like there is a city hall in every city or even a mosque or a main mosque in every city or place, so that there is not one for the whole world, but the whole world has one and everybody is always close to one.

                Ka3bas, cubes there are in many places it seems that Yem is full of them and there are very old ones, so a ka3aba was not a unique place but there were in many other places.

                Salaam

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                • M Offline
                  M Offline
                  Mazhar
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #53

                  Could it be that the bait by itself or muharrama were not just one but that there can be one in each city or place.Like there is a city hall in every city or even a mosque or a main mosque in every city or place, so that there is not one for the whole world, but the whole world has one and everybody is always close to one.

                  Ka3bas, cubes there are in many places it seems that Yem is full of them and there are very old ones, so a ka3aba was not a unique place but there were in many other places.

                  Salaam

                  The definite article prefixed to a noun renders it a unique and singular entity.

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                  • H Offline
                    H Offline
                    huruf
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #54

                    No, I kjnow about the definite article, but there are instances where the things i known and you the not especify even a particular entity and you assume it is the lcosest one, either in the speech or in the common understanding.

                    It is so when somebody says "filbeit". It can be your house, my house, whatever comes closer to the understanding of which beit you are meaning. It doesn't matter whether there are thousands of beit.

                    It is the same when in times or trouble you are advised to stay fil beit, there is not a beit for everybody, which they share, but everyone has her house. So you see it is not a question of a definite article.

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                    • M Offline
                      M Offline
                      Mazhar
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #55

                      No, I kjnow about the definite article, but there are instances where the things i known and you the not especify even a particular entity and you assume it is the lcosest one, either in the speech or in the common understanding.

                      It is so when somebody says "filbeit". It can be your house, my house, whatever comes closer to the understanding of which beit you are meaning. It doesn't matter whether there are thousands of beit.

                      It is the same when in times or trouble you are advised to stay fil beit, there is not a beit for everybody, which they share, but everyone has her house. So you see it is not a question of a definite article.

                      Basic attribute of definite noun is that both the speaker and listener/ writer and reader are aware about the particular entity referred by definite noun. It is universally held understanding.

                      In case of some emergency when you listen "stay fil beit" you understand the instruction, keep staying in the house where you are in at the moment; not to move out of the house.

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                      • N Offline
                        N Offline
                        Novice
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #56

                        Brother lets see how traditional translations create questions when al-bait=the house

                        Beacon of guidance. Have you heard about beacons? Or source of inspiration?

                        Al-Bait means nothing but house. Check all its uses, and see if anywhere it means anything else than house.

                        396-97
                        (
                        SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
                        Indeed, the first House established for mankind was that at Makkah - blessed and a guidance for the worlds.

                        So the first house was made for the people. How many houses were made after that? The ayat does not say that "the only house but the first house"

                        How a house becomes a guidance for the worlds?

                        (

                        SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
                        In it are clear signs the standing place of Abraham. And whoever enters it shall be safe. And to Allah from the people is a pilgrimage to the House - for whoever is able to find thereto a way. But whoever disbelieves - then indeed, Allah is free from need of the worlds.

                        What are the clear signs in the bait? There are only pillars and few decorations inside kaaba.

                        Can people enter kaaba to become safe? How kaaba can give safety to people?

                        What the root means and how it got the meaning of pilgrimage?

                        How Allah's need can be fulfilled by visiting kaaba?

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                        • N Offline
                          N Offline
                          Novice
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #57

                          The definite article prefixed to a noun renders it a unique and singular entity.

                          396

                          If al-naas is a singular entity as per your quote does it mean that (if we take hajj=pilgrimage) hajj is for every person who has ability to get their whether a Muslim or not?

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                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            Mazhar
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #58

                            396

                            If al-naas is a singular entity as per your quote does it mean that (if we take hajj=pilgrimage) hajj is for every person who has ability to get their whether a Muslim or not?

                            The restriction imposed is for the Mushrikeen - Polytheists.

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                            • N Offline
                              N Offline
                              Novice
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #59

                              The restriction imposed is for the Mushrikeen - Polytheists.

                              That was not my question. Let me copy it again

                              396

                              If al-naas is a singular entity as per your quote does it mean that (if we take hajj=pilgrimage) hajj is for every person who has ability to get there whether a Muslim or not?

                              Question is to whom the term is referring to in this ayat?

                              (

                              If you were referring to this ayat then it is using for restriction not

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                              • M Offline
                                M Offline
                                Mazhar
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #60

                                That was not my question. Let me copy it again

                                396

                                If al-naas is a singular entity as per your quote does it mean that (if we take hajj=pilgrimage) hajj is for every person who has ability to get there whether a Muslim or not?

                                Question is to whom the term is referring to in this ayat?

                                (

                                If you were referring to this ayat then it is using for restriction not

                                All those who follow the Community Code of life of Iebra'heim

                                Matter of common sense; people will mean who have faith in Allah the Exalted and His Messenger Iebra'heim .

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                                • N Offline
                                  N Offline
                                  Novice
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #61

                                  All those who follow the Community Code of life of Iebra'heim

                                  Matter of common sense; people will mean who have faith in Allah the Exalted and His Messenger Iebra'heim .

                                  Are they not addressed as ...... in the Quran?

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                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    Mazhar
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #62

                                    Are they not addressed as ...... in the Quran?

                                    It is direct address; O those/you who proclaim to have believed.

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                                    • N Offline
                                      N Offline
                                      Novice
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #63

                                      It is direct address;

                                      Thanks brother for your reply. Our understanding is limited but truth prevails. May Allah swt give us wisdom to understand His Guidance.

                                      O those/you who proclaim to have believed.

                                      My humble understanding is that when Allah swt is saying then it is not our proclamation but Allah's. So "O those who have been blessed with iman."

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                                      • M Offline
                                        M Offline
                                        Mazhar
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #64

                                        Thanks brother for your reply. Our understanding is limited but truth prevails. May Allah swt give us wisdom to understand His Guidance.

                                        My humble understanding is that when Allah swt is saying then it is not our proclamation but Allah's. So "O those who have been blessed with iman."

                                        Your rendition would have been correct if the verb was passive, as is your passive rendition.

                                        The verb is perfect, third person plural. Subject pronoun is referent to Relative Pronoun . The verb signifies a volitional act. And it is intransitive.

                                        Reconsider, point will In sha Allah become explicit.

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                                        • N Offline
                                          N Offline
                                          Novice
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #65

                                          Your rendition would have been correct if the verb was passive, as is your passive rendition.

                                          The verb is perfect, third person plural. Subject pronoun is referent to Relative Pronoun . The verb signifies a volitional act. And it is intransitive.

                                          Reconsider, point will In sha Allah become explicit.

                                          Grammatically yes but in the light of other ayats I have my rendition. For example

                                          329
                                          (

                                          Say whether you hide what in your hearts or show it, Allah knows it.........

                                          6125
                                          (

                                          And whomsoever God wills to guide, his bosom He opens wide with willingness towards self-surrender ; and whomsoever He wills to let go astray, his bosom He causes to be tight and constricted.......

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