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  4. Palavers about Qur'aan.

Palavers about Qur'aan.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • N Offline
    N Offline
    Novice
    wrote on last edited by
    #50

    So "al-bait" means system and system means guidance; and guidance has foundations which are raised from it. And it has become stature of Ibrahim (as).

    What a mysterious method of explaining guidance.

    May be al-bait means Kaaba (a black stone cube) and kaaba means guidance and kaaba has foundations which were raised from al-bait. And it has become foot print of Ibrahim on a white stone.

    What a pagan way of explaining guidance.

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    • M Offline
      M Offline
      Mazhar
      wrote on last edited by
      #51

      May be al-bait means Kaaba (a black stone cube) and kaaba means guidance and kaaba has foundations which were raised from al-bait. And it has become foot print of Ibrahim on a white stone.

      What a pagan way of explaining guidance.

      Beacon of guidance. Have you heard about beacons? Or source of inspiration?

      Al-Bait means nothing but house. Check all its uses, and see if anywhere it means anything else than house.

      http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/03.92-9.gif

      http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.097.gif
      http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/014.%20Ibrahim%20alahissalam/14.37.gif

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      • H Offline
        H Offline
        huruf
        wrote on last edited by
        #52

        Could it be that the bait by itself or muharrama were not just one but that there can be one in each city or place.Like there is a city hall in every city or even a mosque or a main mosque in every city or place, so that there is not one for the whole world, but the whole world has one and everybody is always close to one.

        Ka3bas, cubes there are in many places it seems that Yem is full of them and there are very old ones, so a ka3aba was not a unique place but there were in many other places.

        Salaam

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        • M Offline
          M Offline
          Mazhar
          wrote on last edited by
          #53

          Could it be that the bait by itself or muharrama were not just one but that there can be one in each city or place.Like there is a city hall in every city or even a mosque or a main mosque in every city or place, so that there is not one for the whole world, but the whole world has one and everybody is always close to one.

          Ka3bas, cubes there are in many places it seems that Yem is full of them and there are very old ones, so a ka3aba was not a unique place but there were in many other places.

          Salaam

          The definite article prefixed to a noun renders it a unique and singular entity.

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          • H Offline
            H Offline
            huruf
            wrote on last edited by
            #54

            No, I kjnow about the definite article, but there are instances where the things i known and you the not especify even a particular entity and you assume it is the lcosest one, either in the speech or in the common understanding.

            It is so when somebody says "filbeit". It can be your house, my house, whatever comes closer to the understanding of which beit you are meaning. It doesn't matter whether there are thousands of beit.

            It is the same when in times or trouble you are advised to stay fil beit, there is not a beit for everybody, which they share, but everyone has her house. So you see it is not a question of a definite article.

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            • M Offline
              M Offline
              Mazhar
              wrote on last edited by
              #55

              No, I kjnow about the definite article, but there are instances where the things i known and you the not especify even a particular entity and you assume it is the lcosest one, either in the speech or in the common understanding.

              It is so when somebody says "filbeit". It can be your house, my house, whatever comes closer to the understanding of which beit you are meaning. It doesn't matter whether there are thousands of beit.

              It is the same when in times or trouble you are advised to stay fil beit, there is not a beit for everybody, which they share, but everyone has her house. So you see it is not a question of a definite article.

              Basic attribute of definite noun is that both the speaker and listener/ writer and reader are aware about the particular entity referred by definite noun. It is universally held understanding.

              In case of some emergency when you listen "stay fil beit" you understand the instruction, keep staying in the house where you are in at the moment; not to move out of the house.

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              • N Offline
                N Offline
                Novice
                wrote on last edited by
                #56

                Brother lets see how traditional translations create questions when al-bait=the house

                Beacon of guidance. Have you heard about beacons? Or source of inspiration?

                Al-Bait means nothing but house. Check all its uses, and see if anywhere it means anything else than house.

                396-97
                (
                SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
                Indeed, the first House established for mankind was that at Makkah - blessed and a guidance for the worlds.

                So the first house was made for the people. How many houses were made after that? The ayat does not say that "the only house but the first house"

                How a house becomes a guidance for the worlds?

                (

                SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
                In it are clear signs the standing place of Abraham. And whoever enters it shall be safe. And to Allah from the people is a pilgrimage to the House - for whoever is able to find thereto a way. But whoever disbelieves - then indeed, Allah is free from need of the worlds.

                What are the clear signs in the bait? There are only pillars and few decorations inside kaaba.

                Can people enter kaaba to become safe? How kaaba can give safety to people?

                What the root means and how it got the meaning of pilgrimage?

                How Allah's need can be fulfilled by visiting kaaba?

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                • N Offline
                  N Offline
                  Novice
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #57

                  The definite article prefixed to a noun renders it a unique and singular entity.

                  396

                  If al-naas is a singular entity as per your quote does it mean that (if we take hajj=pilgrimage) hajj is for every person who has ability to get their whether a Muslim or not?

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                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    Mazhar
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #58

                    396

                    If al-naas is a singular entity as per your quote does it mean that (if we take hajj=pilgrimage) hajj is for every person who has ability to get their whether a Muslim or not?

                    The restriction imposed is for the Mushrikeen - Polytheists.

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                    • N Offline
                      N Offline
                      Novice
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #59

                      The restriction imposed is for the Mushrikeen - Polytheists.

                      That was not my question. Let me copy it again

                      396

                      If al-naas is a singular entity as per your quote does it mean that (if we take hajj=pilgrimage) hajj is for every person who has ability to get there whether a Muslim or not?

                      Question is to whom the term is referring to in this ayat?

                      (

                      If you were referring to this ayat then it is using for restriction not

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                      • M Offline
                        M Offline
                        Mazhar
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #60

                        That was not my question. Let me copy it again

                        396

                        If al-naas is a singular entity as per your quote does it mean that (if we take hajj=pilgrimage) hajj is for every person who has ability to get there whether a Muslim or not?

                        Question is to whom the term is referring to in this ayat?

                        (

                        If you were referring to this ayat then it is using for restriction not

                        All those who follow the Community Code of life of Iebra'heim

                        Matter of common sense; people will mean who have faith in Allah the Exalted and His Messenger Iebra'heim .

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                        • N Offline
                          N Offline
                          Novice
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #61

                          All those who follow the Community Code of life of Iebra'heim

                          Matter of common sense; people will mean who have faith in Allah the Exalted and His Messenger Iebra'heim .

                          Are they not addressed as ...... in the Quran?

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                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            Mazhar
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #62

                            Are they not addressed as ...... in the Quran?

                            It is direct address; O those/you who proclaim to have believed.

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                            • N Offline
                              N Offline
                              Novice
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #63

                              It is direct address;

                              Thanks brother for your reply. Our understanding is limited but truth prevails. May Allah swt give us wisdom to understand His Guidance.

                              O those/you who proclaim to have believed.

                              My humble understanding is that when Allah swt is saying then it is not our proclamation but Allah's. So "O those who have been blessed with iman."

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                              • M Offline
                                M Offline
                                Mazhar
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #64

                                Thanks brother for your reply. Our understanding is limited but truth prevails. May Allah swt give us wisdom to understand His Guidance.

                                My humble understanding is that when Allah swt is saying then it is not our proclamation but Allah's. So "O those who have been blessed with iman."

                                Your rendition would have been correct if the verb was passive, as is your passive rendition.

                                The verb is perfect, third person plural. Subject pronoun is referent to Relative Pronoun . The verb signifies a volitional act. And it is intransitive.

                                Reconsider, point will In sha Allah become explicit.

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                                • N Offline
                                  N Offline
                                  Novice
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #65

                                  Your rendition would have been correct if the verb was passive, as is your passive rendition.

                                  The verb is perfect, third person plural. Subject pronoun is referent to Relative Pronoun . The verb signifies a volitional act. And it is intransitive.

                                  Reconsider, point will In sha Allah become explicit.

                                  Grammatically yes but in the light of other ayats I have my rendition. For example

                                  329
                                  (

                                  Say whether you hide what in your hearts or show it, Allah knows it.........

                                  6125
                                  (

                                  And whomsoever God wills to guide, his bosom He opens wide with willingness towards self-surrender ; and whomsoever He wills to let go astray, his bosom He causes to be tight and constricted.......

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                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    Mazhar
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #66

                                    Grammatically yes but in the light of other ayats I have my rendition. For example

                                    329
                                    (

                                    Say whether you hide what in your hearts or show it, Allah knows it.........

                                    6125
                                    (

                                    And whomsoever God wills to guide, his bosom He opens wide with willingness towards self-surrender ; and whomsoever He wills to let go astray, his bosom He causes to be tight and constricted.......

                                    There is no rule in academics to relate declarative statements to direct address by vocative particle.

                                    Moreover you seem to have overlooked the last sentence which could have clarified to you what I had said in my post.

                                    Believing is volitional act.

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                                    • N Offline
                                      N Offline
                                      Novice
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #67

                                      There is no rule in academics to relate declarative statements to direct address by vocative particle.

                                      Moreover you seem to have overlooked the last sentence which could have clarified to you what I had said in my post.

                                      Believing is volitional act.

                                      6125
                                      (

                                      Yes rijs is for those who do not believe and what about those who believe? Do they do it by themselves or Allah swt guides them? If Allah put "rijs" on those who do not believe then Allah swt also bless those who initiate the belief.

                                      Yes believing is volitional act but it is complete when Allah swt's blessing is included.

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                                      • M Offline
                                        M Offline
                                        Mazhar
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #68

                                        6125
                                        (

                                        Yes rijs is for those who do not believe and what about those who believe? Do they do it by themselves or Allah swt guides them? If Allah put "rijs" on those who do not believe then Allah swt also bless those who initiate the belief.

                                        Yes believing is volitional act but it is complete when Allah swt's blessing is included.

                                        That is a separate fact. Nothing happens without the explicit permission of Him the Exalted. But first step is your own willingness to believe. If you wish not to believe He the Exalted is not going to make you believe against your will.

                                        If you wish or desire not to believe in the House whom Allah calls "My House", He the Exalted will not force you to believe in it. Otherwise it will infringe the granted real free will.

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                                        • N Offline
                                          N Offline
                                          Novice
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #69

                                          That is a separate fact. Nothing happens without the explicit permission of Him the Exalted. But first step is your own willingness to believe. If you wish not to believe He the Exalted is not going to make you believe against your will.

                                          Thank you.

                                          If you wish or desire not to believe in the House whom Allah calls "My House", He the Exalted will not force you to believe in it. Otherwise it will infringe the granted real free will.

                                          I am using the logic given by the same Allah to understand that He does not need a house. Nice talking to you.

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