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  4. Palavers about Qur'aan.

Palavers about Qur'aan.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • M Offline
    M Offline
    Mazhar
    wrote on last edited by
    #55

    No, I kjnow about the definite article, but there are instances where the things i known and you the not especify even a particular entity and you assume it is the lcosest one, either in the speech or in the common understanding.

    It is so when somebody says "filbeit". It can be your house, my house, whatever comes closer to the understanding of which beit you are meaning. It doesn't matter whether there are thousands of beit.

    It is the same when in times or trouble you are advised to stay fil beit, there is not a beit for everybody, which they share, but everyone has her house. So you see it is not a question of a definite article.

    Basic attribute of definite noun is that both the speaker and listener/ writer and reader are aware about the particular entity referred by definite noun. It is universally held understanding.

    In case of some emergency when you listen "stay fil beit" you understand the instruction, keep staying in the house where you are in at the moment; not to move out of the house.

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    • N Offline
      N Offline
      Novice
      wrote on last edited by
      #56

      Brother lets see how traditional translations create questions when al-bait=the house

      Beacon of guidance. Have you heard about beacons? Or source of inspiration?

      Al-Bait means nothing but house. Check all its uses, and see if anywhere it means anything else than house.

      396-97
      (
      SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
      Indeed, the first House established for mankind was that at Makkah - blessed and a guidance for the worlds.

      So the first house was made for the people. How many houses were made after that? The ayat does not say that "the only house but the first house"

      How a house becomes a guidance for the worlds?

      (

      SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
      In it are clear signs the standing place of Abraham. And whoever enters it shall be safe. And to Allah from the people is a pilgrimage to the House - for whoever is able to find thereto a way. But whoever disbelieves - then indeed, Allah is free from need of the worlds.

      What are the clear signs in the bait? There are only pillars and few decorations inside kaaba.

      Can people enter kaaba to become safe? How kaaba can give safety to people?

      What the root means and how it got the meaning of pilgrimage?

      How Allah's need can be fulfilled by visiting kaaba?

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      • N Offline
        N Offline
        Novice
        wrote on last edited by
        #57

        The definite article prefixed to a noun renders it a unique and singular entity.

        396

        If al-naas is a singular entity as per your quote does it mean that (if we take hajj=pilgrimage) hajj is for every person who has ability to get their whether a Muslim or not?

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        • M Offline
          M Offline
          Mazhar
          wrote on last edited by
          #58

          396

          If al-naas is a singular entity as per your quote does it mean that (if we take hajj=pilgrimage) hajj is for every person who has ability to get their whether a Muslim or not?

          The restriction imposed is for the Mushrikeen - Polytheists.

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          • N Offline
            N Offline
            Novice
            wrote on last edited by
            #59

            The restriction imposed is for the Mushrikeen - Polytheists.

            That was not my question. Let me copy it again

            396

            If al-naas is a singular entity as per your quote does it mean that (if we take hajj=pilgrimage) hajj is for every person who has ability to get there whether a Muslim or not?

            Question is to whom the term is referring to in this ayat?

            (

            If you were referring to this ayat then it is using for restriction not

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            • M Offline
              M Offline
              Mazhar
              wrote on last edited by
              #60

              That was not my question. Let me copy it again

              396

              If al-naas is a singular entity as per your quote does it mean that (if we take hajj=pilgrimage) hajj is for every person who has ability to get there whether a Muslim or not?

              Question is to whom the term is referring to in this ayat?

              (

              If you were referring to this ayat then it is using for restriction not

              All those who follow the Community Code of life of Iebra'heim

              Matter of common sense; people will mean who have faith in Allah the Exalted and His Messenger Iebra'heim .

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              • N Offline
                N Offline
                Novice
                wrote on last edited by
                #61

                All those who follow the Community Code of life of Iebra'heim

                Matter of common sense; people will mean who have faith in Allah the Exalted and His Messenger Iebra'heim .

                Are they not addressed as ...... in the Quran?

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                • M Offline
                  M Offline
                  Mazhar
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #62

                  Are they not addressed as ...... in the Quran?

                  It is direct address; O those/you who proclaim to have believed.

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                  • N Offline
                    N Offline
                    Novice
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #63

                    It is direct address;

                    Thanks brother for your reply. Our understanding is limited but truth prevails. May Allah swt give us wisdom to understand His Guidance.

                    O those/you who proclaim to have believed.

                    My humble understanding is that when Allah swt is saying then it is not our proclamation but Allah's. So "O those who have been blessed with iman."

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                    • M Offline
                      M Offline
                      Mazhar
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #64

                      Thanks brother for your reply. Our understanding is limited but truth prevails. May Allah swt give us wisdom to understand His Guidance.

                      My humble understanding is that when Allah swt is saying then it is not our proclamation but Allah's. So "O those who have been blessed with iman."

                      Your rendition would have been correct if the verb was passive, as is your passive rendition.

                      The verb is perfect, third person plural. Subject pronoun is referent to Relative Pronoun . The verb signifies a volitional act. And it is intransitive.

                      Reconsider, point will In sha Allah become explicit.

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                      • N Offline
                        N Offline
                        Novice
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #65

                        Your rendition would have been correct if the verb was passive, as is your passive rendition.

                        The verb is perfect, third person plural. Subject pronoun is referent to Relative Pronoun . The verb signifies a volitional act. And it is intransitive.

                        Reconsider, point will In sha Allah become explicit.

                        Grammatically yes but in the light of other ayats I have my rendition. For example

                        329
                        (

                        Say whether you hide what in your hearts or show it, Allah knows it.........

                        6125
                        (

                        And whomsoever God wills to guide, his bosom He opens wide with willingness towards self-surrender ; and whomsoever He wills to let go astray, his bosom He causes to be tight and constricted.......

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                        • M Offline
                          M Offline
                          Mazhar
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #66

                          Grammatically yes but in the light of other ayats I have my rendition. For example

                          329
                          (

                          Say whether you hide what in your hearts or show it, Allah knows it.........

                          6125
                          (

                          And whomsoever God wills to guide, his bosom He opens wide with willingness towards self-surrender ; and whomsoever He wills to let go astray, his bosom He causes to be tight and constricted.......

                          There is no rule in academics to relate declarative statements to direct address by vocative particle.

                          Moreover you seem to have overlooked the last sentence which could have clarified to you what I had said in my post.

                          Believing is volitional act.

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                          • N Offline
                            N Offline
                            Novice
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #67

                            There is no rule in academics to relate declarative statements to direct address by vocative particle.

                            Moreover you seem to have overlooked the last sentence which could have clarified to you what I had said in my post.

                            Believing is volitional act.

                            6125
                            (

                            Yes rijs is for those who do not believe and what about those who believe? Do they do it by themselves or Allah swt guides them? If Allah put "rijs" on those who do not believe then Allah swt also bless those who initiate the belief.

                            Yes believing is volitional act but it is complete when Allah swt's blessing is included.

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                            • M Offline
                              M Offline
                              Mazhar
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #68

                              6125
                              (

                              Yes rijs is for those who do not believe and what about those who believe? Do they do it by themselves or Allah swt guides them? If Allah put "rijs" on those who do not believe then Allah swt also bless those who initiate the belief.

                              Yes believing is volitional act but it is complete when Allah swt's blessing is included.

                              That is a separate fact. Nothing happens without the explicit permission of Him the Exalted. But first step is your own willingness to believe. If you wish not to believe He the Exalted is not going to make you believe against your will.

                              If you wish or desire not to believe in the House whom Allah calls "My House", He the Exalted will not force you to believe in it. Otherwise it will infringe the granted real free will.

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                              • N Offline
                                N Offline
                                Novice
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #69

                                That is a separate fact. Nothing happens without the explicit permission of Him the Exalted. But first step is your own willingness to believe. If you wish not to believe He the Exalted is not going to make you believe against your will.

                                Thank you.

                                If you wish or desire not to believe in the House whom Allah calls "My House", He the Exalted will not force you to believe in it. Otherwise it will infringe the granted real free will.

                                I am using the logic given by the same Allah to understand that He does not need a house. Nice talking to you.

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                                • M Offline
                                  M Offline
                                  Mazhar
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #70

                                  Thank you.

                                  I am using the logic given by the same Allah to understand that He does not need a house. Nice talking to you.

                                  But He the Exalted says

                                  http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/022.%20Al%20Hajj/Temp%2001%2022.26.gif

                                  What is the logic in not accepting His words?

                                  Every house is built on a http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00050.%20Kanoo%20Kaf%20Waw%20Noon/44.gif Location, plot of land. And then says http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.125/2.gif "My House".

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                                  • N Offline
                                    N Offline
                                    Novice
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #71

                                    What is the logic in not accepting His words?

                                    2226

                                    What is your understanding of the root and how does relates to ?

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                                    • M Offline
                                      M Offline
                                      Mazhar
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #72

                                      Be aware of history; When Our Majesty had marked the site of the House for acknowledgment by Iebra'heim .
                                      The purpose of this site-marking was told to him "you should not associate with Me any other space-thing.
                                      And you manage and maintain the cleanliness- sanctity of My House for people who will walk-orbit around it;
                                      And for those who steadfastly stand and are the performers of kneeling coupled with the trait as performers of prostration."

                                      And you pronounce amongst the people for Hajj Pilgrimage

                                      They will come to you on foot and upon every ride; they coming from every deep and distant mountain highways;

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                                      • N Offline
                                        N Offline
                                        Novice
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #73

                                        Be aware of history; When Our Majesty had marked the site of the House for acknowledgment by Iebra'heim .
                                        The purpose of this site-marking was told to him "you should not associate with Me any other space-thing.
                                        And you manage and maintain the cleanliness- sanctity of My House for people who will walk-orbit around it;
                                        And for those who steadfastly stand and are the performers of kneeling coupled with the trait as performers of prostration."

                                        And you pronounce amongst the people for Hajj Pilgrimage

                                        They will come to you on foot and upon every ride; they coming from every deep and distant mountain highways;

                                        Brother thanks for your translation but you did not address my question.

                                        2226

                                        What is your understanding of the root and how does relates to ?

                                        Let me ask it in a different way. How do you understand the word from the following verses.

                                        560

                                        1957

                                        1975

                                        2534

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                                        • M Offline
                                          M Offline
                                          Mazhar
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #74

                                          Brother thanks for your translation but you did not address my question.

                                          Let me ask it in a different way. How do you understand the word from the following verses.

                                          560

                                          1957

                                          1975

                                          2534

                                          I hope you know that certain words need disambiguation. In Arabic the visual sign is that disambiguation noun is always in accusative case. is disambiguation accusative for .

                                          You the Messenger tell them "May l disclose to you who is worse liquefying and irritating sufferer in this group; worse requital by the decree of Allah the Exalted?
                                          He is whom Allah the Exalted has discarded as condemned and cursed; and has decreed criminal cognizance upon him.
                                          And He the Exalted had declared some amongst such people as apes and swine;
                                          And worse sufferer is he who served the defiant/aberrant.
                                          They are the people who are mischievous, by their disposition - behavioral settlement. And they are distantly lost away from the even course to destination.

                                          And you the Messenger mention in the Book Idries
                                          Beyond doubt he was always absolutely truthful; he was the Elevated and Chosen Distinct Allegiant-Subject of Allah the Exalted.
                                          And We had elevated him to exalted place.

                                          You the Messenger pronounce, "Anyone who is absorbed in deliberate neglectful indifference, thereby Ar'Reh'maan will certainly permit for him- let him stretch in neglectful indifference, as an extension ;
                                          Till such time when they would have seen what is being promised to them, either the infliction before the Last Day or the Last Moment;
                                          Thereat, they will thenceforth know with certainty who is in liquefying-irritating state by way of placement, and is weakest, with regard to supportive people."

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