Palavers about Qur'aan.
-
I got it but you did not. I got it that you have your tunnel vision highly influenced by traditions and will not consider any other possibility.
Your post is a proof how "the House" has been used to gather riches like any other religious mafia in this world.
The religious elite would take away life long savings of people in the name of the most compassionate and guarantee forgiveness of all sins. It sweeps under the carpet all concept of justice of Allah swt making the Hakeem and the Aleem Creator a worldly king who uses his powers to punish or reward without any rules. The Quran tells us that He created rules for himself as well and He does not violate them. The most obvious one is in 612
.........He has prescribed for Himself mercy.......
So please you continue your way and let me carry on my way. There is no compulsion in Deen. We can share our understanding but should not compel each other for accepting it.
My total emphasis is following the academic rules in reading and translating a source language text which obviously does not take into consideration and cares for any tradition.
Al-Bait is a concept discussed in Qur'aan. However, Qur'aan also says people accept some and deny to accept some part of book.
-
My total emphasis is following the academic rules in reading and translating a source language text which obviously does not take into consideration and cares for any tradition.
This is your translation from you web site of 171
The desire of approval of the Infinitely Glorious, Allah the Exalted, is the focus of all effort. He the Exalted had arranged the travel carrying His sincere Allegiant-Muhammad for journey; during some part of night?
Is this translation as per academic rules in reading and translating a source language text which obviously does not take into consideration and cares for any tradition?
-
This is your translation from you web site of 171
The desire of approval of the Infinitely Glorious, Allah the Exalted, is the focus of all effort. He the Exalted had arranged the travel carrying His sincere Allegiant-Muhammad for journey; during some part of night?
Is this translation as per academic rules in reading and translating a source language text which obviously does not take into consideration and cares for any tradition?
This is transference of the meanings of the sentence of source text. Challenge the meanings by applying academic rules relating to grammar, syntax and semantics.
You can study about Real Life Event mentioned in it in my article
http//haqeeqat.pk/banners/o3.png
http//haqeeqat.pk/Mairaaj.htm
The corporeal Journey far beyond the ascensions of Earthly Universe
Contents
-
Unique Night Journey
-
The Purpose of Unique Night Journey
-
The Destination of Journey
-
The Night Journey beyond the Terminus of Earthly Universe was corporeal.
-
Ascension had no negative effect on visual faculty of the Elevated Messenger
-
-
This is transference of the meanings of the sentence of source text. Challenge the meanings by applying academic rules relating to grammar, syntax and semantics.
This is your translation from you web site of 171
The desire of approval of the Infinitely Glorious, Allah the Exalted, is the focus of all effort. He the Exalted had arranged the travel carrying His sincere Allegiant-Muhammad for journey; during some part of night?
Is this translation as per academic rules in reading and translating a source language text which obviously does not take into consideration and cares for any tradition?
How did you get this name (highlighted in red) in your above translation?
-
How did you get this name (highlighted in red) in your above translation?
Perhaps you seem not aware of Anaphora resolution.
Anaphora resolution is a must
Arabic is an agglutinative language, the pronouns can occur as suffixes of nouns, verbs or prepositions. Therefore, Anaphora Resolution is vital to understanding the meaning of Grand Qur?n. It means the problem of resolving what a pronoun refers to. In written or oral text anaphora can be thought of as ?pointing back or referring to something or someone mentioned earlier?. The entity to which it refers is called its antecedent. The process of determining the antecedent of an anaphor?lexical entity is called anaphora resolution. It is contrasted with cataphora that refers forwards, not backwards.
Pleonastic pronouns are considered non-anaphoric since they are not interpreted as linked to any expression (antecedent). For example, in English the pronoun "it" could be pleonastic, e.g., "It is important".
Pronouns form a special class of anaphors because of their empty semantic structure; they do not have an independent meaning from their antecedent. Thus they will refer a singular entity.
Grand Qur?n is characterized by very frequent use of anaphors. The majority of anaphoric devices in it appear around pronominal anaphors. Hence, the ability to resolve pronoun antecedent is vital to understanding the Qur?n. Grand Qur?n relies on the reader's world knowledge and intuition when using pronouns without explicitly including any antecedent information. For example a good number of second person pronouns in the Qur?n refer to exalted Messenger Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam with no prior mention of his name as we firstly notice in 24.
Similarly, the second person pronoun "you" is understood in command verbs in English. The pronoun "you" can refer a single person, either male or female, two persons or a group of persons. But in Arabic the second person pronouns make distinction between singular male and female, dual, and plural masculine and feminine. Therefore, this peculiar aspect must be reflected in translation.
Third person pronouns can refer both to persons, inanimate objects and fact. The inanimate/non-living objects have also gender distinction. Therefore, we will refer the feminine inanimate object by "she" and masculine by "it, that".
The referent of other pronouns will be mentioned in parenthesis for the convenience of the reader.
It is a Prepositional Phrase coupled with Possessive Phrase. The last third person pronoun (pronouns are always definite) is referent to the Relative Pronoun for Allah the Exalted. The First noun of Possessive Phrase is also definite by construct. It refers to the Specific Person. Specific person needs to be mentioned.
-
Perhaps you seem not aware of Anaphora resolution.
Anaphora resolution is a must
Arabic is an agglutinative language, the pronouns can occur as suffixes of nouns, verbs or prepositions. Therefore, Anaphora Resolution is vital to understanding the meaning of Grand Qur?n. It means the problem of resolving what a pronoun refers to. In written or oral text anaphora can be thought of as ?pointing back or referring to something or someone mentioned earlier?. The entity to which it refers is called its antecedent. The process of determining the antecedent of an anaphor?lexical entity is called anaphora resolution. It is contrasted with cataphora that refers forwards, not backwards.
Pleonastic pronouns are considered non-anaphoric since they are not interpreted as linked to any expression (antecedent). For example, in English the pronoun "it" could be pleonastic, e.g., "It is important".
Pronouns form a special class of anaphors because of their empty semantic structure; they do not have an independent meaning from their antecedent. Thus they will refer a singular entity.
The Quran informs us that it is a guidance for the mankind and is easy to take advice from it. But you appear to believe that every human being has to go to a university to get a degree in language sciences to get guidance from the Quran.
5417
5422
5432
5440
Grand Qur?n is characterized by very frequent use of anaphors. The majority of anaphoric devices in it appear around pronominal anaphors. Hence, the ability to resolve pronoun antecedent is vital to understanding the Qur?n. Grand Qur?n relies on the reader's world knowledge and intuition when using pronouns without explicitly including any antecedent information. For example a good number of second person pronouns in the Qur?n refer to exalted Messenger Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam with no prior mention of his name as we firstly notice in 24.
24
and those who believe with what was revealed to you and what was revealed before you....
171
......who took to journey His abad.....
I hope you can see the difference between pronoun (you) and (He)
You has to be one who is addressed but His abd could be anyone.
So how did you came to the conclusion that who is "His abd" in 171?
-
24
English "you" can refer to second person singular both feminine and masculine; can be referent to two person male or female and can be referent for many people men and women included. But the pronoun in is referent for second person, masculine, singular. It is referent to one unique person.
Unless you determine who is he, you cannot get the addressee. Towards whom Qur'aan was sent is the person addressed by .
You are at liberty to presume whomever you wish to call the addressee.
You has to be one who is addressed but His abd could be anyone.
A definite noun does not mean "anyone". It means a specific person.
-
24
English "you" can refer to second person singular both feminine and masculine; can be referent to two person male or female and can be referent for many people men and women included. But the pronoun in is referent for second person, masculine, singular. It is referent to one unique person.
Unless you determine who is he, you cannot get the addressee. Towards whom Qur'aan was sent is the person addressed by .
You are at liberty to presume whomever you wish to call the addressee.
Yes is the person who was revealed the Quran. That is exactly what I wrote. But that was not my question. Let me quote it again
I hope you can see the difference between pronoun (you) and (He)
You has to be one who is addressed but His abd could be anyone.
Do you think = ?
-
You avoided this part of my post.
The Quran informs us that it is a guidance for the mankind and is easy to take advice from it. But you appear to believe that every human being has to go to a university to get a degree in language sciences to get guidance from the Quran.
5417
5422
5432
5440
I am waiting for your response brother.
-
Whoever is referred as becomes a specific person but how can you conclude that it is Prophet Muhammad?
This is the difference between Passive Reader and Active Reader. I am not reading the translations and exegeses. I am directly and critically reading the original text of Qur'aan.
I emphasize upon people to first learn the art of reading a book. Qur'aan is unique book. It also tells how to comprehend it and how to cross check whether you have correctly understood and translated.
The first claim about the book is that in it there is no vague, ambiguous content. When a reader is blind as to who is being referred, it is either the ambiguity in the book or the reader does not know how to read a book.
Reflect and try to follow this style of reading Qur'aan
http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.082.gif
Is it because they do not personally study the Qur?n critically, logically and coherently pursuing its text?
-
The Quran informs us that it is a guidance for the mankind and is easy to take advice from it. But you appear to believe that every human being has to go to a university to get a degree in language sciences to get guidance from the Quran.
5417
5422
5432
5440
I am waiting for your response brother.
I lament to say that you seem not interested in increasing level of understanding. I am sure you do not even understand that the above Ayahs have a claim in them. You, like many others, seem not to have thought and evaluated the statement as to whether it is true or false.
The evidence is that my Thread is on this subject and above Ayahs which you seem not to have read carefully and critically, though you said you agreed to it. Please read the first page of thread along with the given link; may be you get something in it.
If you open the link you will find
http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/019.%20Maryam%20Siddiqa/19.97.gif
Thereby, for reason of its universality and permanence, Our Majesty have certainly rendered it (Qur?n) easy, open and facilitator for reading and comprehension by transcribing it in the mother tongue Arabic language of you (Muhammad ).
http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/028.%20Al%20Qasas/28.46b.gif
The purpose of rendering it facilitator is that people might at their own sincerely comprehend, make their selves enlightened, recall and relate it.http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/054.%20Al%20Qamar/54.17.gif
Know the certain fact We have simplified-rendered the Grand Qur?n easy, open and facilitative for reading, comprehension and saving in memory to recall, take lesson and to relate.
http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/054.%20Al%20Qamar/54.15a.gif
Thereat, is there one who consciously and purposely saves it in memory, comprehends and recalls to mention-takes lesson and admonition? -
After reading the article of thread, please read, selecting from the left pane
How Qur?n was rendered Facilitative for reading.
The statement that Qur?n is rendered facilitative has the value of a claim - to say, without proof or evidence, that something is true. Since the statement is about a book which is meant for reading and comprehending, the statement will be true if the book facilitates the reader both in its reading and comprehension. This is the extent of the statement. If the critical reader finds the statement true to its extent it will obviously highlight the value, quality and importance of the book whereby he will become sincere and reverent for it.
http//haqeeqat.pk/FacilitatorHow.htm
-
Brother no need to lament on anything. It is sharing of knowledge and then reflecting critically on it. If you feel uncomfortable by questions then we can discontinue our discussion.
This is the difference between Passive Reader and Active Reader. I am not reading the translations and exegeses. I am directly and critically reading the original text of Qur'aan.
Your claim is that you are reading the original text of Quraan, but my understanding is that you take liberty to add to the original text in your translation.
The first claim about the book is that in it there is no vague, ambiguous content. When a reader is blind as to who is being referred, it is either the ambiguity in the book or the reader does not know how to read a book.
There is no ambiguity involved. The verse is simply saying " glorified is the one who took His abd from masjid-ul-haram to masjid-ul-aqsa one night.
A book is composed of paragraphs and chapters to convey the message. Can we isolate this verse from the rest of paragraph? Or we continue reading it with the next verses?
As far as reflecting on verses is concerned anyone can question the traditional translations as there was no masjid around kaaba or in Palestine when the verses were revealed. Kaaba was under the control of mushrikeen and Palestine was conquered after the death of the prophet.
-
I lament to say that you seem not interested in increasing level of understanding. I am sure you do not even understand that the above Ayahs have a claim in them. You, like many others, seem not to have thought and evaluated the statement as to whether it is true or false.
The evidence is that my Thread is on this subject and above Ayahs which you seem not to have read carefully and critically, though you said you agreed to it. Please read the first page of thread along with the given link; may be you get something in it.
If you open the link you will find
http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/019.%20Maryam%20Siddiqa/19.97.gif
Thereby, for reason of its universality and permanence, Our Majesty have certainly rendered it (Qur?n) easy, open and facilitator for reading and comprehension by transcribing it in the mother tongue Arabic language of you (Muhammad ).
http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/028.%20Al%20Qasas/28.46b.gif
The purpose of rendering it facilitator is that people might at their own sincerely comprehend, make their selves enlightened, recall and relate it.http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/054.%20Al%20Qamar/54.17.gif
Know the certain fact We have simplified-rendered the Grand Qur?n easy, open and facilitative for reading, comprehension and saving in memory to recall, take lesson and to relate.
http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/054.%20Al%20Qamar/54.15a.gif
Thereat, is there one who consciously and purposely saves it in memory, comprehends and recalls to mention-takes lesson and admonition?As usual you avoided answering the question. The question was
The Quran informs us that it is a guidance for the mankind and is easy to take advice from it. But you appear to believe that every human being has to go to a university to get a degree in language sciences to get guidance from the Quran.
Can a normal common man get guidance from Quraan without getting a degree in language sciences?
-
As usual you avoided answering the question. The question was
Can a normal common man get guidance from Quraan without getting a degree in language sciences?I have no degree in language sciences. And more than 90% of the entire population of world has no degree in any language as subject.
My concluding remark in article on Translation
Therefore, the translation of Qur?n is but one directional interpretation. Thereby, it is not necessary that the translator be a linguist. It is also so because translation and interpretation of a book is merely a skill.
http//haqeeqat.pk/TranslationOfQuran.htm
-
Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 015133 AM
This is the difference between Passive Reader and Active Reader. I am not reading the translations and exegeses. I am directly and critically reading the original text of Qur'aan.Your claim is that you are reading the original text of Quraan, but my understanding is that you take liberty to add to the original text in your translation.
This may be because either you know not or did not recall the concept which is common in languages
Elisions
It is made explicit at the very outset of the Divine Discourse that Arabic is a pro-drop language. Taking care of elisions in the source text and incorporating it in target language text are important to correctly convey the perception embedded therein. Ellipses at the sentence level is distinguished from other types of omissions by the condition of recoverability. The basic principle of ellipsis is that nothing can be omitted unless it can be recovered. Recoverability is the essential condition put forward by Arab grammarians for ellipsis. Ellipsis is not allowed if there are no indicators to help the addressee to identify the elided elements.
Since Grand Qur?n is for the humanity, its first audience were the people of Mecca and surrounding localities. Further, while reading Grand Qur?n, it must be kept in mind that it was gradually-intermittently revealed to the Messenger who then communicated it to the people of those days. Therefore, while conveying an Ayah?unitary verbal passage wherein some element is elided, it was so because it was already in their knowledge and they were quite familiar about it. Its mentioning would have cost redundancy.
Arabs dislike using larger quantity of words and like to convey voluminous information by employing minimum words. It also reflects that the Arabic language regards its listener and reader as a responsible, attentive and intelligent person who focuses his listening and perception faculties on that which is being stated. Thus the placing of words which could compromise the literary par excellence of the text along with offence to the first listeners, it is elided. The elisions are conspicuous by grammatical structures; and for the readers of later time-frame the semantics of the elided element are also mentioned at another place with repetition of key words in the elliptical sentences.
It will be unfair on the part of the translator; it could even indicate that the translator has directly started translating without firstly having critically read the entire discourse, not to render the ellipses in the target language text because the reader is not aware about the nature and style of ellipses in Arabic. The reader is, however, conversant with the kinds of ellipses in English language which are found in dependent clauses. In Arabic, the ellipses also occur in the independent clauses. Lapse of translator in this regard can affect the semantic value of the original source text; and it can even distort the text, or render it vague.
Therefore, we will render the semantic content of elisions in the target language and will give the reference of Sura and Ayah from where the semantic information is taken by brackets, like . The key to understand ellipses is to always keep in mind that the message is geared to be consonant with the audience's prior knowledge and assumptions.
http//haqeeqat.pk/Word%20by%20Word.htm
-
I have no degree in language sciences. And more than 90% of the entire population of world has no degree in any language as subject.
My concluding remark in article on Translation
Therefore, the translation of Qur?n is but one directional interpretation. Thereby, it is not necessary that the translator be a linguist. It is also so because translation and interpretation of a book is merely a skill.
http//haqeeqat.pk/TranslationOfQuran.htm
Skills cannot be standardized so you are saying that readers of Quraan have the freedom of adding to the text as per their interpretation. We can see why there are so many sects in Islam and who to blame for it.
-
Therefore, we will render the semantic content of elisions in the target language and will give the reference of Sura and Ayah from where the semantic information is taken by brackets, like .
171
Please give reference to Sura and Ayah from where you took the semantic information that "His abd" is prophet Muhammad.
The key to understand ellipses is to always keep in mind that the message is geared to be consonant with the audience's prior knowledge and assumptions.
Or did you take "His abd"=prophet Muhammad from the prior knowledge and assumptions.
-
Therefore, we will render the semantic content of elisions in the target language and will give the reference of Sura and Ayah from where the semantic information is taken by brackets, like .
The key to understand ellipses is to always keep in mind that the message is geared to be consonant with the audience's prior knowledge and assumptions.
These two statements are so contradictory.
First one takes information from within Quraan to explain ayahs.
Second one takes information from prior knowledge and assumptions of the audience.