Palavers about Qur'aan.

[Novice]

Therefore, we will render the semantic content of elisions in the target language and will give the reference of Sura and Ayah from where the semantic information is taken by brackets, like .

The key to understand ellipses is to always keep in mind that the message is geared to be consonant with the audience's prior knowledge and assumptions.

These two statements are so contradictory.

First one takes information from within Quraan to explain ayahs.

Second one takes information from prior knowledge and assumptions of the audience.

[Mazhar]

Quote from Mazhar on Today at 020543 AM
Therefore, we will render the semantic content of elisions in the target language and will give the reference of Sura and Ayah from where the semantic information is taken by brackets, like .

171

Please give reference to Sura and Ayah from where you took the semantic information that "His abd" is prophet Muhammad.

Quote from Mazhar on Today at 020543 AM
The key to understand ellipses is to always keep in mind that the message is geared to be consonant with the audience's prior knowledge and assumptions.

Or did you take "His abd"=prophet Muhammad from the prior knowledge and assumptions.

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Who is this Abd of Allah? Allah says this Abd takes you and me out of the depths of darkness into enlightenment.

What is the name of Abd to whom the Book was sent?

[Mazhar]

Quote from Mazhar on Today at 020543 AM
Therefore, we will render the semantic content of elisions in the target language and will give the reference of Sura and Ayah from where the semantic information is taken by brackets, like .

Quote from Mazhar on Today at 020543 AM
The key to understand ellipses is to always keep in mind that the message is geared to be consonant with the audience's prior knowledge and assumptions.

These two statements are so contradictory.

First one takes information from within Quraan to explain ayahs.

Second one takes information from prior knowledge and assumptions of the audience.

Both things are valid. Pl study how books are written. Please read it

v) Audience of the Book;

One of the most difficult questions for a human author is figuring out "who are your target audience?" Grand Qur?n is unique in this respect also. It explicitly defines and addresses specifically the target audience and those who are the primary readers for the Book. When approaching a text, a reader should try to determine who the author is trying to communicate with. It is necessary because the message is geared to be consonant with the audience's prior knowledge and assumptions. It is the audience in relation to whom will depend the main idea, validation and support, word choice, sentence structure, writing plan - form, writing relationship what tone of voice comes to you as a reader.

http//haqeeqat.pk/Word%20by%20Word.htm

[Novice]

Both things are valid. Pl study how books are written. Please read it

No brother both things are not valid in the case of Quraan which is a book of guidance for the whole mankind. It claims to provide guidance to everyone approaching it with clean slate. The one approaching it with pre-conceived information will try to get confirmation of what he has already established.

When approaching a text, a reader should try to determine who the author is trying to communicate with. It is necessary because the message is geared to be consonant with the audience's prior knowledge and assumptions. It is the audience in relation to whom will depend the main idea, validation and support, word choice, sentence structure, writing plan - form, writing relationship what tone of voice comes to you as a reader.

Target audience for Quraan is the mankind. So the author is communicating with everyone approaching it.

[Mazhar]

No brother both things are not valid in the case of Quraan which is a book of guidance for the whole mankind. It claims to provide guidance to everyone approaching it with clean slate. The one approaching it with pre-conceived information will try to get confirmation of what he has already established.

Target audience for Quraan is the mankind. So the author is communicating with everyone approaching it.

The audience is humanity. But did you notice who is addressee in a particular part of the text. Since you have totally closed your mind to let any knowledgeable thing enter therein you keep raising irrelevant things. See the addressees

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Thanks.

[Novice]

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Who is this Abd of Allah? Allah says this Abd takes you and me out of the depths of darkness into enlightenment.

What is the name of Abd to whom the Book was sent?

Mazhar thanks for quoting these ayahs but these are with reference to the book. Obviously Abd in these ayahs is the one who received the book and as such became the messenger of Allah. Quraan inform us that the messenger of Allah was Muhammad.

4829 .......

Are you assuming that 131 occurrences of the noun "Abd" in Quraan are always used for Muhammad?

( Source http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=Ebd)

[Mazhar]

Mazhar thanks for quoting these ayahs but these are with reference to the book. Obviously Abd in these ayahs is the one who received the book and as such became the messenger of Allah. Quraan inform us that the messenger of Allah was Muhammad.

4829 .......

Are you assuming that 131 occurrences of the noun "Abd" in Quraan are always used for Muhammad?

( Source http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=Ebd)

Did I say this?

http//haqeeqat.pk/roots/Tabweeb/00011.%20Bandgi%20Ain%20Ba%20Dal/42.gif Only once.

http//haqeeqat.pk/roots/Tabweeb/00011.%20Bandgi%20Ain%20Ba%20Dal/66.gif 4 times

http//haqeeqat.pk/roots/Tabweeb/00011.%20Bandgi%20Ain%20Ba%20Dal/48.gif 2 times.

............
Who is Abd in it?

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[Novice]

The audience is humanity. But did you notice who is addressee in a particular part of the text. Since you have totally closed your mind to let any knowledgeable thing enter therein you keep raising irrelevant things.

Personal insults will make no difference brother. Bring your proof to validate your translation.

See the addressees

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You missed 2185 which say Quraan is guidance for mankind.

......

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
The month of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people .........

Your references for different addressee are valid to get guidance from them and not making these ayahs for those specific groups. All examples, history etc in Quran are there to give us guidance.

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Indeed, Allah is not timid to present an example - that of a mosquito or what is smaller than it. And those who have believed know that it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did Allah intend by this as an example?" He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby. And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient,

[Novice]

Who is Abd in it?

http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/053.%20An%20Najam/53.10.gif

Does it mean every occurrence of Abd in Quraan means prophet Muhammad.

[Mazhar]

Does it mean every occurrence of Abd in Quraan means prophet Muhammad.

Already told you.

http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/053.%20An%20Najam/53.10.gif

Say who is abd of Allah in it?

[Mazhar]

Personal insults will make no difference brother. Bring your proof to validate your translation.

You missed 2185 which say Quraan is guidance for mankind.

......

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
The month of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people .........

Your references for different addressee are valid to get guidance from them and not making these ayahs for those specific groups. All examples, history etc in Quran are there to give us guidance.

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Indeed, Allah is not timid to present an example - that of a mosquito or what is smaller than it. And those who have believed know that it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did Allah intend by this as an example?" He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby. And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient,

It is no answer. See who are addressed by vocative particle. Importance of structuring the text according to addressee I have already highlighted.

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Who is calling and who is called?

[Novice]

It is no answer. See who are addressed by vocative particle. Importance of structuring the text according to addressee I have already highlighted.

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Who is calling and who is called?

The author of these verses is commanding to the one who received these verses i.e. prophet Muhammad.

[Mazhar]

The author of these verses is commanding to the one who received these verses i.e. prophet Muhammad.

Exactly. And it reveals to us that the Speaker is calling upon the Messenger by an epithet, giving him a descriptive name; and we get about his inherent nature, habit, conduct he possessed at the time of this call.

[Mazhar]

Already told you.

http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/053.%20An%20Najam/53.10.gif

Say who is abd of Allah in it?

In it also "His abd" is the Messenger. And this sentence is mentioned in the episode of his journey beyond the ascensions of the universe.

http//haqeeqat.pk/Mairaaj.htm

[Novice]

In it also "His abd" is the Messenger. And this sentence is mentioned in the episode of his journey beyond the ascensions of the universe.

http//haqeeqat.pk/Mairaaj.htm

Assumption or traditions/ahadith gives you this picture. Where is this ascension described in Quraan?

[Novice]

Exactly. And it reveals to us that the Speaker is calling upon the Messenger by an epithet, giving him a descriptive name; and we get about his inherent nature, habit, conduct he possessed at the time of this call.

What it has to do with your translation of isolated ayah 171?

[Mazhar]

What it has to do with your translation of isolated ayah 171?

Then who is he in 171?

And who is abd in it

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[Mazhar]

Assumption or traditions/ahadith gives you this picture. Where is this ascension described in Quraan?

Going by the discipline of reading a book, one does not need assumptions and traditions. One figure of speech is Tasreef; and second is frames on subjects/concepts. In every frame there are key words. You can then link the frames and get the complete idea.

Qur?n is rendered facilitative for comprehension

By unique device like coverage of an event by multiple cameras

http//haqeeqat.pk/FacilitatibeByTasreef.htm

Where is this ascension described in Quraan?

http//haqeeqat.pk/banners/o3.png

http//haqeeqat.pk/Mairaaj.htm

[Novice]

Going by the discipline of reading a book, one does not need assumptions and traditions. One figure of speech is Tasreef; and second is frames on subjects/concepts. In every frame there are key words. You can then link the frames and get the complete idea.

Qur?n is rendered facilitative for comprehension

By unique device like coverage of an event by multiple cameras

http//haqeeqat.pk/FacilitatibeByTasreef.htm

http//haqeeqat.pk/banners/o3.png

http//haqeeqat.pk/Mairaaj.htm

Your article is based on 2 suppositions;

1-surah najam is about night travel of the prophet from a non-existant masjid ul haram at that time around kaaba to a remotely high masjid.

531-18
(&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (

There is no travel mentioned in these ayahs. Can you please show me a single word in these ayah that means travel?

2- Jannah is a physical place where your great great great grand father used to live with his wife. They ate from a forbidden tree and as a result were thrown down on this earth. What a crime and what a punishment.

Quran gives an example of Jannah in following ayahs not actual description of Jannah.

1335
(

4715
(

[Mazhar]

Your article is based on 2 suppositions;

1-surah najam is about night travel of the prophet from a non-existant masjid ul haram at that time around kaaba to a remotely high masjid.

531-18
(&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (

There is no travel mentioned in these ayahs. Can you please show me a single word in these ayah that means travel?

2- Jannah is a physical place where your great great great grand father used to live with his wife. They ate from a forbidden tree and as a result were thrown down on this earth. What a crime and what a punishment.

Quran gives an example of Jannah in following ayahs not actual description of Jannah.

1335
(

4715
(

http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/017.%20Al%20Israa/17.1PPQ.gif This Sacred Mosque is in existence from the day AlBait was constructed.

You do not believe in "the House of Allah", therefore, you will not believe in the Sacred Mosque. So we leave it.

They ate from a forbidden tree and as a result were thrown down on this earth. What a crime and what a punishment.

Neither was that crime; nor was punishment; nor were thrown down.

http//There is no travel mentioned in these ayahs. Can you please show me a single word in these ayah that means travel?

If it was not journey beyond the frontiers of this universe then what do you think is stated in Chapter 53 first part. And who is the man mentioned therein?