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  4. Hafs or Warsh

Hafs or Warsh

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • I Offline
    I Offline
    ibn_a
    wrote on last edited by
    #87

    Salaam,

    Peace, last post need to take a break...

    Oldest manuscripts are consistent while those ~200 years afterward contain inconsistencies.

    482 do so not they reflecting the qur?an/recitation and in case be from near/with other than the god surely found they of in it ikhtilafan/divergences of (single occurrence) kathiran/much of (3+)

    When you have time, please share what you consider as consistent "oldest manuscripts" that you are referring to.

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      Noon_waalqalami
      wrote on last edited by
      #88

      When you have time, please share what you consider as consistent "oldest manuscripts" that you are referring to.

      Peace gave numerous examples including ten consistently spelled not half spelled (same word).

      1. 1317 the examples

      2. 1425 the examples

      3. 1445 the examples

      4. 1674 the examples

      5. 1748 the examples

      6. 259 the examples

      7. 2435 the examples

      8. 2539 the examples

      9. 2943 the examples

      10. 5921 the examples

      1317 l-amthla/the examples
      https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/13/vers/17?handschrift=13
      https//i.postimg.cc/j2r4kf5J/ch13v12-v23.jpg

      1674 l-amthla/the examples
      UNESCO ?Memory of the World? Program ?San?a Manuscripts CD First AH 1673-89
      https//i.postimg.cc/SQCBN0Bm/ch16v73-89.jpg

      1748 l-amthla/the examples
      https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/17/vers/49?handschrift=107
      https//i.postimg.cc/YqZJ2nh6/ch17v46-56.jpg

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      • I Offline
        I Offline
        ibn_a
        wrote on last edited by
        #89

        Salaam,

        peace gl, your infatuation with nineteen is making you lose sense of basic logic.
        it's not about original (same word/phrases need to be consistent) see examples.

        NOT consistent extra alif 130140500130 in current manuscript/s and should be...

        1317 ... yaribu/striketh the god l-amthla/the examples
        1425 ... wayaribu/and striketh the god l-amthla/the examples
        1445 ... waarabn/and strike we of for you l-amthla/the examples
        1674 so not tarib/thou strike ye of to god l-amthla/the examples
        1748 observe how arab/strike they of to you l-amthla/the examples so astray they of so not capable being path of

        These verses consistent in current manuscript/s (no extra alif) as in oldest manuscripts...

        259 observe how arab/strike they of to you l-amthla/the examples so astray they of so not capable being path of
        2435 ... wayaribu/and striketh the god l-amthla/the examples
        2539 ... arabn/strike we of to him l-amthla/the examples
        2943 and those l-amthlu/the examples naribuh/we strike them to the humankind and not understand them except the knowing
        5921 ... and those l-amthlu/the examples naribuh/we strike them to the humankind perhaps they reflecting

        Some examples of differences in the spelling of words from what you call " consistent oldest manuscripts".

        Example

        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/218/handschrift/163
        line 9 - Mercy / Grace of God

        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/7/vers/56/handschrift/163
        line 3 - Mercy / Grace of God

        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/11/vers/73/handschrift/163
        line 3 - Mercy / Grace of God

        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/30/vers/50?handschrift=107
        line 9 - Mercy / Grace of God

        -- Compare to

        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/3/vers/107?handschrift=163
        line 21 - Mercy / Grace of God

        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/39/vers/53?handschrift=163
        line 23-24 - Mercy / Grace of God

        Example

        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/8/vers/38?handschrift=163
        line 20-21 - Way (of) the former (people)

        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/35/vers/43?handschrift=163
        line 19-20 - Way (of) the former (people)

        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/40/vers/85?handschrift=163
        line 19-20 ( the) Way (of) Allah

        -- Compare to

        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/15/vers/13?handschrift=163
        line 9 - Way (of) the former (people)

        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/18/vers/55?handschrift=163
        line 3 - Way (of) the former (people)

        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/33/vers/38?handschrift=107
        last line ( the) Way (of) Allah


        I think that the particular spelling of some words in the Quran we have today is not inconsistent, it is for a purpose and in time the purpose will be revealed by God.

        Like the example of the word Ibraheem , spelled without Ya in chapter 2 and spelled with Ya in the rest of the Quran.

        There is no logique in saying that the scribes changed the spelling of the word Ibraheem only in chapter 2 and not in the rest of the Quran, they must have had a source for these particular spellings.

        Cautious when saying "inconsistent" about the current manuscript especially when in condradiction with Quran veses referring to the the preservation of the Quran by God.

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        • N Offline
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          Noon_waalqalami
          wrote on last edited by
          #90

          Some examples of differences in the spelling of words from what you call " consistent oldest manuscripts".

          Example

          https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/218/handschrift/163
          line 9 - Mercy / Grace of God

          https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/7/vers/56/handschrift/163
          line 3 - Mercy / Grace of God

          https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/11/vers/73/handschrift/163
          line 3 - Mercy / Grace of God

          https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/30/vers/50?handschrift=107
          line 9 - Mercy / Grace of God

          -- Compare to

          https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/3/vers/107?handschrift=163
          line 21 - Mercy / Grace of God

          https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/39/vers/53?handschrift=163
          line 23-24 - Mercy / Grace of God

          peace, same in ?new? manuscripts slight distinction verb & verbal noun from root raima/mercy

          3938 ? biramatin/in mercy its shall they with-holders ramatihi/mercy his ?

          https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/39/vers/38/handschrift/163

          https//i.postimg.cc/ZKkw3BwB/ch39v33-44.jpg

          Example

          https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/8/vers/38?handschrift=163
          line 20-21 - Way (of) the former (people)

          https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/35/vers/43?handschrift=163
          line 19-20 - Way (of) the former (people)

          https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/40/vers/85?handschrift=163
          line 19-20 ( the) Way (of) Allah

          -- Compare to

          https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/15/vers/13?handschrift=163
          line 9 - Way (of) the former (people)

          https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/18/vers/55?handschrift=163
          line 3 - Way (of) the former (people)

          https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/33/vers/38?handschrift=107
          last line ( the) Way (of) Allah

          again same in ?new? manuscripts slight nuance/distinction ?

          1777 sunnata/manner from hence sent we of before you from messengers ours and not thou find lisunnatina/to manner its ours turning

          https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/17/vers/77/handschrift/163

          https//i.postimg.cc/Dzqvvbpr/ch17v67-79.jpg

          Like the example of the word Ibraheem , spelled without Ya in chapter 2 and spelled with Ya in the rest of the Quran.

          likewise it was already shown to you numerous times that the oldest manuscripts "consistently" spelled abraham (same word/person) in all chapters and chapter 2 "inconsistency" appears ~200+ years afterwards and likewise the new verse arrangement separating 18 of ?29? initialed chapters into separate verses, etc.

          https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/124?handschrift=163

          https//i.postimg.cc/XYL4G0ch/ch2v121-132.jpg

          1. 21 alif lam meem such the book not doubt in it guidance for the righteous
            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/1?handschrift=116

          2. 31 alif lam meem the god not deity except he the alive the sustainer
            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/3/vers/1/handschrift/116

          3. 71 alif lam meem saad book descends to you so not beeth in breast your critical from it to thou warn with it and reminder to the believers
            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/7/vers/1/handschrift/163

          4. 101 alif lam ra those signs the book the wise

          5. 111 alif lam ra book are perfected signs/verses its furthermore explained from one who wise aware

          6. 121 alif lam ra those signs the book the clear

          7. 131 alif lam meem ra those signs the book and the which descends to you from lord your the truth and however more the humankind not believing

          8. 141 alif lam ra book descends we it to you that thou evict the humankind from the darkness to the light by permission lord theirs to path the mighty the praiseworthy

          9. 151 alif lam ra those signs the book and qur?an/recitation clear

          10. 191 kaaf ha ya ain saad remembrance mercy lord your devotee his zakariyya
            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/19/vers/1/handschrift/163

          11. 201 ta ha not descends we of upon you the qur?an/recitation that thou agonize
            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/1/handschrift/163

          12. 261 ta seen mim those signs the book the clear
            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/26/vers/1/handschrift/163

          13. 271 ta seen those signs the qur?an/recitation and book clear

          14. 281 ta seen mim those signs the book the clear
            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/28/vers/1?handschrift=107

          15. 291 alif lam meem do calculate the humankind that left they of that speaketh they of believe we of and they not tested being
            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/29/vers/1/handschrift/107

          16. 301 alif lam meem ghalabat/triumph the romans
            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/30/vers/1/handschrift/107

          17. 311 alif lam meem those signs the book the wise
            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/31/vers/1/handschrift/107

          18. 321 alif lam meem revelation the book not doubt in it from lord the world?s inhabitants
            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/32/vers/1/handschrift/107

          19. 361 ya seen and the qur?an/recitation the wise
            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/36/vers/1/handschrift/107

          20. 381 saad and the qur?an/recitation owner the reminder

          21. 401 ha meem revelation the book from the god the mighty the knower
            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/40/vers/1?handschrift=163

          22. 411 ha meem revelation from the almighty the merciful
            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/41/vers/1/handschrift/163

          23. 421 ha meem ayn seen qaf like such inspired to you and toward the ones from before you the god the mighty the wise
            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/42/vers/1/handschrift/163

          24. 431 ha meem and the book the clear
            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/43/vers/1?handschrift=163

          25. 441 ha meem and the book the clear
            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/44/vers/1/handschrift/163

          26. 451 ha meem revelation the book from the god the mighty the wise
            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/45/vers/1/handschrift/163

          27. 461 ha meem revelation the book from the god the mighty the wise
            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/46/vers/1/handschrift/163

          28. 501 qaf and the qur?an/recitation the glorious

          29. 681 noon wal-qalami/and the pen and what they write being

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          • I Offline
            I Offline
            ibn_a
            wrote on last edited by
            #91

            Salaam,

            it's not about original (same word/phrases need to be consistent) see examples.

            Oldest manuscripts are consistent while those ~200 years afterward contain inconsistencies.

            • I gave you some examples of differences in spelling of words from what you consider" consistent oldest manuscripts"

            • The particular spelling in current manuscript and in some older manuscripts is for a purpose and is not the result of inconsistency,
              otherwise this would condradict with Quran verses referring to the the preservation of the Quran by God.

            likewise it was already shown to you numerous times that the oldest manuscripts "consistently" spelled abraham (same word/person) in all chapters and chapter 2 "inconsistency" appears ~200+ years afterwards and likewise the new verse arrangement separating 18 of 29 initialed chapters into separate verses, etc.

            There is no logique in changing the spelling only in chapter 2 for the word Ibraheem,
            and changing the arrangement of the initialed chapters only in 19 chapters and not in the rest of the 29 initialed chapters,
            they must have had a source for these particular spellings and arrangement of verses.

            Allah knows best.

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            • I Offline
              I Offline
              ibn_a
              wrote on last edited by
              #92

              Salaam,

              Oldest manuscripts are consistent while those ~200 years afterward contain inconsistencies.

              Another example of what you consider " inconsistent" from what you consider "consistent oldest manuscripts"

              https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/11/vers/27?handschrift=163

              Manuscript line 7

              Faqala almalao allatheena kafaroo min qawmihi ma naraka illa basharan mithlana wama naraka ittabaAAaka illa allatheena hum arathiluna badiya alrra/yi wama nara lakum AAalayna min fadlin bal nathunnukum kathibeena

              So said the chiefs (of) those who disbelieved from his people, "Not we see you but a man like us, and not we see you followed except those who (are) the lowest of us immature in opinion. And not we see in you over us any merit; nay, we think you (are) liars."

              compare to

              https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/23/vers/24?handschrift=163

              Manuscript line 2 with an extra Waw between the letter Laam and the letter Alif

              Faqala almalao allatheena kafaroo min qawmihi ma hatha illa basharun mithlukum yureedu an yatafaddala AAalaykum walaw shaa Allahu laanzala mala-ikatan ma samiAAna bihatha fee aba-ina al-awwaleena

              But said the chiefs (of) those who disbelieved among his people, "This is not but a man like you, he wishes to assert (his) superiority over you, and if Allah had willed surely He (would have) sent down Angels. Not we heard of this from our forefathers.

              I believe that the current manuscript with the particular spelling of some words is the same as the original manuscript.
              And that in some other manuscripts some of this particular spelling was lost by some scribes thinking that the same words should be spelled the same way,
              not aware that this particular spelling was intended for a purpose.
              Like the example of the word Ibraheem , spelled without Ya in chapter 2 and spelled with Ya in the rest of the Quran.

              Allah knows best.

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              • N Offline
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                Noon_waalqalami
                wrote on last edited by
                #93
                • I gave you some examples of differences in spelling of words from what you consider" consistent oldest manuscripts"

                peace, again you gave examples same root slight nuance of words spelled consistently the same in the oldest and newest manuscripts ? and again, see usage each word slightly distinct in the same verse.

                1777 sunnata/mannerism ... lisunnatina/to manner it ours
                3938 biramatin/in mercy its ... ramatihi/mercy it his

                Furthermore these are consistent and spelled exactly the same each occurrence.

                the examples
                abraham (again spelled consistently with ch 2 in oldest manuscripts)

                Likewise clear looking at oldest manuscripts preserved in German, French, and British Library?s etc., that verse # s are ?man-made? i.e. no consistency and probably used by scribes back then as check-sum arrangement/s.

                The British Library?s oldest Qur?an manuscript now online
                http//britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/asian-and-african/2016/04/the-british-librarys-oldest-quran-manuscript-now-online.html

                http//www.bl.uk/manuscripts/Viewer.aspx?ref=or_2165_fs001r

                https//i.postimg.cc/8cVXRQc2/ch35v40-ch36v4.jpg

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                • N Offline
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                  Noon_waalqalami
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #94

                  Another example of what you consider " inconsistent" from what you consider "consistent oldest manuscripts"

                  https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/11/vers/27?handschrift=163

                  Manuscript line 7

                  Faqala almalao allatheena kafaroo min qawmihi ma naraka illa basharan mithlana wama naraka ittabaAAaka illa allatheena hum arathiluna badiya alrra/yi wama nara lakum AAalayna min fadlin bal nathunnukum kathibeena

                  compare to

                  https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/23/vers/24?handschrift=163

                  Manuscript line 2 with an extra Waw between the letter Laam and the letter Alif

                  Faqala almalao allatheena kafaroo min qawmihi ma hatha illa basharun mithlukum yureedu an yatafaddala AAalaykum walaw shaa Allahu laanzala mala-ikatan ma samiAAna bihatha fee aba-ina al-awwaleena

                  Allah knows best.

                  likewise perhaps study/read carefully less counting stuff you'll see it is correct.
                  qur'an to write "they" trailing alif dropped insert (done for numerous words).

                  https//free-minds.org/quran/A/23#24

                  https//quran.com/23/24?translations=20

                  1127 so said the council of the ones reject they of from folk his
                  2324 so said the council they of the ones reject they of
                  2333 and said the council of from folk his the ones reject they of

                  https//i.postimg.cc/XNcpySrb/ch23v23-35.jpg

                  peace!

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                  • I Offline
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                    ibn_a
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #95

                    Salaam,

                    likewise perhaps study/read carefully less counting stuff you'll see it is correct.
                    qur'an to write "they" trailing alif dropped insert (done for numerous words).

                    https//free-minds.org/quran/A/23#24

                    https//quran.com/23/24?translations=20

                    1127 so said the council of the ones reject they of from folk his
                    2324 so said the council they of the ones reject they of
                    2333 and said the council of from folk his the ones reject they of

                    For me the current manuscript is correct, preserved by God, and the particular spelling is intended for a purpose

                    I think that the particular spelling of some words in the Quran we have today is not inconsistent, it is for a purpose and in time the purpose will be revealed by God.

                    Like the example of the word Ibraheem , spelled without Ya in chapter 2 and spelled with Ya in the rest of the Quran.

                    There is no logique in saying that the scribes changed the spelling of the word Ibraheem only in chapter 2 and not in the rest of the Quran, they must have had a source for these particular spellings.

                    Cautious when saying "inconsistent" about the current manuscript especially when in condradiction with Quran veses referring to the the preservation of the Quran by God.

                    It was your claim about inconsistencies

                    it's not about original (same word/phrases need to be consistent) see examples.

                    Why do you consider this with an extra alif NOT consistent

                    it's not about original (same word/phrases need to be consistent) see examples.

                    NOT consistent extra alif 130140500130 in current manuscript/s and should be...

                    1317 ... yaribu/striketh the god l-amthla/the examples
                    1425 ... wayaribu/and striketh the god l-amthla/the examples
                    1445 ... waarabn/and strike we of for you l-amthla/the examples
                    1674 so not tarib/thou strike ye of to god l-amthla/the examples
                    1748 observe how arab/strike they of to you l-amthla/the examples so astray they of so not capable being path of

                    These verses consistent in current manuscript/s (no extra alif) as in oldest manuscripts...

                    259 observe how arab/strike they of to you l-amthla/the examples so astray they of so not capable being path of
                    2435 ... wayaribu/and striketh the god l-amthla/the examples
                    2539 ... arabn/strike we of to him l-amthla/the examples
                    2943 and those l-amthlu/the examples naribuh/we strike them to the humankind and not understand them except the knowing
                    5921 ... and those l-amthlu/the examples naribuh/we strike them to the humankind perhaps they reflecting

                    and consider this with an extra Waw consistent

                    Salaam,

                    Another example of what you consider " inconsistent" from what you consider "consistent oldest manuscripts"

                    https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/11/vers/27?handschrift=163

                    Manuscript line 7

                    Faqala almalao allatheena kafaroo min qawmihi ma naraka illa basharan mithlana wama naraka ittabaAAaka illa allatheena hum arathiluna badiya alrra/yi wama nara lakum AAalayna min fadlin bal nathunnukum kathibeena

                    So said the chiefs (of) those who disbelieved from his people, "Not we see you but a man like us, and not we see you followed except those who (are) the lowest of us immature in opinion. And not we see in you over us any merit; nay, we think you (are) liars."

                    compare to

                    https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/23/vers/24?handschrift=163

                    Manuscript line 2 with an extra Waw between the letter Laam and the letter Alif

                    Faqala almalao allatheena kafaroo min qawmihi ma hatha illa basharun mithlukum yureedu an yatafaddala AAalaykum walaw shaa Allahu laanzala mala-ikatan ma samiAAna bihatha fee aba-ina al-awwaleena

                    But said the chiefs (of) those who disbelieved among his people, "This is not but a man like you, he wishes to assert (his) superiority over you, and if Allah had willed surely He (would have) sent down Angels. Not we heard of this from our forefathers.

                    I believe that the current manuscript with the particular spelling of some words is the same as the original manuscript.
                    And that in some other manuscripts some of this particular spelling was lost by some scribes thinking that the same words should be spelled the same way,
                    not aware that this particular spelling was intended for a purpose.
                    Like the example of the word Ibraheem , spelled without Ya in chapter 2 and spelled with Ya in the rest of the Quran.

                    Allah knows best.

                    7228

                    LiyaAAlama an qad ablaghoo risalati rabbihim waahata bima ladayhim waahsa kulla shayin AAadadan

                    That He may make evident that indeed, they have conveyed (the) Messages (of) their Lord; and He has encompassed what (is) with them and He takes account (of) all things (in) number."

                    Allah knows best.

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                      Noon_waalqalami
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #96

                      For me the current manuscript is correct, preserved by God, and the particular spelling is intended for a purpose
                      and consider this with an extra Waw consistent

                      7228

                      peace, not sure which quran (or from which numerology site) you are using since current and oldest manuscripts spell it correctly and grammatically etc., already explained and you ignore.

                      https//free-minds.org/quran/A/23#24

                      https//quran.com/23/24?translations=20

                      1127 so said the council of the ones reject they of from folk his
                      2324 so said the council they of the ones reject they of
                      2333 and said the council of from folk his the ones reject they of

                      Those infatuated with number want to use simpleton numerology/mindless counting to change the text and ignore and/or override the preserved record from close to the time of revelation? another example.

                      https//i.postimg.cc/Kv0Y2VGD/ch23v14-24.jpg

                      https//i.postimg.cc/Qt9kr1Zj/ch72v18-ch73v9.jpg

                      have nice life!

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                        ibn_a
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #97

                        Salaam,

                        When you say " current manuscript/s not consistent ".

                        it's not about original (same word/phrases need to be consistent) see examples.

                        NOT consistent extra alif 130140500130 in current manuscript/s and should be...

                        1317 ... yaribu/striketh the god l-amthla/the examples
                        1425 ... wayaribu/and striketh the god l-amthla/the examples
                        1445 ... waarabn/and strike we of for you l-amthla/the examples
                        1674 so not tarib/thou strike ye of to god l-amthla/the examples
                        1748 observe how arab/strike they of to you l-amthla/the examples so astray they of so not capable being path of

                        These verses consistent in current manuscript/s (no extra alif) as in oldest manuscripts...

                        259 observe how arab/strike they of to you l-amthla/the examples so astray they of so not capable being path of
                        2435 ... wayaribu/and striketh the god l-amthla/the examples
                        2539 ... arabn/strike we of to him l-amthla/the examples
                        2943 and those l-amthlu/the examples naribuh/we strike them to the humankind and not understand them except the knowing
                        5921 ... and those l-amthlu/the examples naribuh/we strike them to the humankind perhaps they reflecting

                        Peace, not hafs/warsh rather compare oldest manuscripts to new (obvious consistency errors).

                        3182 such in what have set forth hands yours and that the god not is biallmin/in darkness (with alif) to the devotees?

                        851 such in what have set forth hands yours and that the god not is biallmin/in darkness (no alif?) to the devotees?

                        Then you have to come up with a logical explanation for this

                        159 Indeed, We We have sent down the Reminder, and indeed, We of it (are) surely Guardians.

                        4141 Indeed, those who disbelieve in the Reminder when it comes to them. And indeed, it (is) surely a Book mighty.
                        4142 Not comes to it the falsehood from before it and not from behind it. A Revelation from (the) All-Wise, (the) Praiseworthy.

                        5677 Indeed, it (is) surely, a Quran noble,
                        5678 In a Book well-guarded

                        7228 So as to make manifest that they have delivered the messages of their Lord, and He encompasses all that is with them, and He has counted everything in numbers.

                        8521 Nay! It (is) a Quran Glorious,
                        8522 In a Tablet, Guarded.

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                          Noon_waalqalami
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #98

                          Then you have to come up with a logical explanation for this

                          159 Indeed, We We have sent down the Reminder, and indeed, We of it (are) surely Guardians.

                          4141 Indeed, those who disbelieve in the Reminder when it comes to them. And indeed, it (is) surely a Book mighty.
                          4142 Not comes to it the falsehood from before it and not from behind it. A Revelation from (the) All-Wise, (the) Praiseworthy.

                          5677 Indeed, it (is) surely, a Quran noble,
                          5678 In a Book well-guarded

                          7228 So as to make manifest that they have delivered the messages of their Lord, and He encompasses all that is with them, and He has counted everything in numbers.

                          8521 Nay! It (is) a Quran Glorious,
                          8522 In a Tablet, Guarded.

                          Peace not about guarding text which anyone can change, edit, delete, etc. at any time or guarding text ?before it? is written (irrational!) rather ?the reminder? does not contain falsehood ?before it? i.e. pertaining to prior events mentioned and neither future events ?behind it? foretold to occur.

                          Likewise not about infactuation with certain ?number/s? which are counteless.

                          92 naturally occurring elements
                          2.98 * (10^4) = 29,800 meters/sec speed of the earth in orbit floating around the sun
                          2 * (10^5) = 200,000 meters/sec speed solar system in orbit around milky way galaxy

                          2130-33 do they not see the ones reject they of anna (i.e. ?an inna?/that indeed) the heavens and the land be dual sewn of so ripped we them dual and made we of from the water each thing live then so not believing and made we of in the land firm peaks that shake with them and made we of therein ravine of paths of perhaps they guided being and made we of the heaven/sky roof of safeguard of and they about signs its away turning and he the one creation of the night and the daytime and the sun and the moon each (i.e. all prior mentioned above) in vessel sailing/floating

                          http//d1jqu7g1y74ds1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/tumblr_mj0vvcqnZx1qdlh1io1_400.gif

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                            ibn_a
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #99

                            Salaam,

                            Peace not about guarding text which anyone can change, edit, delete, etc. at any time or guarding text ?before it? is written (irrational!) rather ?the reminder? does not contain falsehood ?before it? i.e. pertaining to prior events mentioned and neither future events ?behind it? foretold to occur.

                            Likewise not about infactuation with certain ?number/s? which are counteless.

                            • Other translations for " bayni yadayhi " before it / openly / presently

                            • Doesn't the red text contradict the blue text ?
                              If no certainty about the preservation of the text, how to be certain about the events it mentions ? ( change, edit, delete, etc.)

                            Likewise not about infactuation with certain ?number/s? which are counteless.

                            92 naturally occurring elements
                            2.98 * (10^4) = 29,800 meters/sec speed of the earth in orbit floating around the sun
                            2 * (10^5) = 200,000 meters/sec speed solar system in orbit around milky way galaxy

                            2130-33 do they not see the ones reject they of anna (i.e. ?an inna?/that indeed) the heavens and the land be dual sewn of so ripped we them dual and made we of from the water each thing live then so not believing and made we of in the land firm peaks that shake with them and made we of therein ravine of paths of perhaps they guided being and made we of the heaven/sky roof of safeguard of and they about signs its away turning and he the one creation of the night and the daytime and the sun and the moon each (i.e. all prior mentioned above) in vessel sailing/floating

                            It would be more relevant to share your translation of these verses

                            159 Inna nahnu nazzalna alththikra wa-inna lahu lahafithoona

                            4141 Inna allatheena kafaroo bialththikri lamma jaahum wa-innahu lakitabun AAazeezun.
                            4142 La ya teehi albatilu min bayni yadayhi wala min khalfihi tanzeelun min hakeemin hameedin

                            5677 Innahu laqur-anun kareemun,
                            5678 Fee kitabin maknoonin.

                            7228 LiyaAAlama an qad ablaghoo risalati rabbihim waahata bima ladayhim waahsa kulla shayin AAadadan.

                            8521 Bal huwa qur-anun majeedun,
                            8522 Fee lawhin mahfoothin.

                            Allah knows best.

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