Explanation 40:11
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Peace Mazhar.
You say, quote
They carved stones, gave them a name and declared them as gods besides Allah and started worshiping them.So you acknowledge that people make statues to represent their "god". Hence they idolise/follow their god. The statues are there because what they idolise are dead ,not with them.
The stones have no meaning on their own, The verses with "taabudoon" are meant for the "represented gods".
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Mazhar.
You say, quote
They carved stones, gave them a name and declared them as gods besides Allah and started worshiping them.So you acknowledge that people make statues to represent their "god". Hence they idolise/follow their god. The statues are there because what they idolise are dead ,not with them.
The stones have no meaning on their own, The verses with "taabudoon" are meant for the "represented gods".
GOD bless you.
Peace.They "represent" none. These are no more stones. They are personified by giving them a imaginative names and are declared they are gods. When they see or worship it they have no other image in their heads except it. Thereby, they represent none else.
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Peace Mazhar.
How can a statue not represent someone? It even looks human, so what you say reflects what I keep saying to you.
You want it your way and you will keep saying so.
As far as I can see and say, we have reached the end of the circle.
Thank you brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Al-A'raf 7172
And when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, , "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified." - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this unaware."
get Quran Apphttps//goo.gl/w6rESk
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Peace Mazhar.
How can a statue not represent someone? It even looks human, so what you say reflects what I keep saying to you.
You want it your way and you will keep saying so.
As far as I can see and say, we have reached the end of the circle.
Thank you brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.What you name are real names. While statute gods are given hypothetical names that is why they represent no further image. I don't know why not you get this simple thing.
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Brother Mazhar, the statues are going to disown their followers on the day of judgement?
Jesus, Mohammed ...Those humans ,Malaika, Jinns(No stones or statues!!) are going to disown those who idolised them.
"Yakfuroona Bishirkikum" "Wala Unabbiuka mithlu Khabir".
I have said all I have to say on this issue.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
1-So "Lam Yukun Chaian" means he was not what he wished?
No. "Lam Yukun Chaian" means he was nothing.
Past tense verb from root is Sh'aa which means "he wished" and present tense is yasha'u which means "he wishes/will wish".is a noun from this root which means thing, or matter, or issue or affair. I leave it to you to figure out how root meaning are reflected in this noun.
In Arabic it means "He was nothing/zero"
Correct he was nothing before its creation. It does not mean that he was created from nothing. Qur'an informs us that he was created from inorganic material... turab, teen etc
3-Humans means determined time. The body rots. After the resurrection Earth and the universe will be changed. We will be changed to be accommodated in a different domain. That is the message from Qoran.
Or are you expecting to stay human and repeat the cycle? "Wa Zawajnahum " It means we will be coupled with a new body" it does not mean giving us virgin spouses. There will be no reproduction.Irrelevant to out discussion.
4-So who is this verse(435) addressed to first?
And why are the addressed "musrifeen"?
It is this concept in Qoran I was referring to as "original sin"You have the right to make your opinion. For me there is no "original sin" in this ayat.
Coming back to 7172, in my opinion it refers to the time of 3867 and before we were made humans.. GOD has made this particular covenant with every human .
Also this life is a trial(yabluakum) 672
GOD bless you.
Peace.There is no base to contact 3867 with 7172
"Yabluakum" comes from root which has the basic meaning of "to portray the reality".
Why all knowing God would test man? He gives us opportunity in this life to develop our nafs and to show our real self during the time of difficulty. At the end successful are those who have developed their nafs and will progress into next life of Jannah.
Salaam
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Al-A'raf 7172
And when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, , "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified." - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this unaware."
get Quran Apphttps//goo.gl/w6rESk
Do you remember anything if you had an awareness before this life? Do you remember being asked by your Rabb "am I not you Rabb?
Here is the interpretation of Parvez Ahmed
Quote "(172) The history of mankind shows that, despite various serious calamities which could have wiped them off the earth, the human race has continued. This is clear evidence that Allah?s programme of creation and Rabubiyya is in operation continuously. We have narrated this history so that human beings may not say on the Day of Reckoning that they were unaware of it." Unquote.
Source http//tolueislam.org/exposition-of-the-holy-quran-07-surah-al-araaf-g-a-parwez/
So if we reflect on our existence it is an evidence that there is a Rabb.
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Peace Novice.
1- Either Insaan was nothing Min kablu or he originated from something. The difference is clear.
Nothing means no matter/particle/atom... From something means frpm matter/particle atom...
So original creation was from nothing. Second creation was from something. GOD does not make such an error.
What you say here is contradictory, quoteCorrect he was nothing before its creation. It does not mean that he was created from nothing. Qur'an informs us that he was created from inorganic material... turab, teen etc
2- Very relevant to our discussion how GOD starts a creation and repeats it.
3-If you think there is no original sin/blame in the Ayat, then explain what it means? You want to settle this issue.
4- Again give your take on 3867 ?
As for "trial , whether you want "Yablu" or "fitna" they both point to a trial" A Hasiba Al Naas An Yutraku an Yakulu Aamanna Wa Hum La YUFTANOON".
As for Why all knowing God would test man?
Exactly for the reason you are saying no to. To test who keeps the covenant agreement (7172) after our first life blunder.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
1- Either Insaan was nothing Min kablu or he originated from something. The difference is clear.
Nothing means no matter/particle/atom... From something means frpm matter/particle atom...
So original creation was from nothing. Second creation was from something. GOD does not make such an error.Salaam GL
Lets make it simple. What is your understanding from Quran about creation of mankind?
I will respond to all your questions in your post after reading your reply to my above question.
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Peace Novice.
You mean why mankind were created? Or how they were created?
Both are important questions to ask .
The why question leads to what we are talking about in this thread.
I believe Qoran answers both.
The how mankind was created question, I agreed with your take on it and the verses you quoted.
From a single cell(water,materials...) and evolved) + reproduction+ Ruh
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Novice.
You mean why mankind were created? Or how they were created?
Both are important questions to ask .
The why question leads to what we are talking about in this thread.
I believe Qoran answers both.
The how mankind was created question, I agreed with your take on it and the verses you quoted.
From a single cell(water,materials...) and evolved) + reproduction+ Ruh
GOD bless you.
Peace.Why aspect is answered in the Qur'aan
http//haqeeqat.pk/Human%20being.htm
How aspect is explained rather in detail
Man's Origin History of his coming into being.
http//haqeeqat.pk/Human%20origin.htm
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Peace Mazhar.
Do you believe this happened instantly? ;quote from your link
Aa'dam is the First Man in Human Species. He was created and took existence as fully mature man.I disagree to your statement "Faida sawaytuhu" Fashioning/evolution can take years!
May be this is off topic here ,if others think it is, we can discuss in another thread.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Mazhar.
Do you believe this happened instantly? ;quote from your link
Aa'dam is the First Man in Human Species. He was created and took existence as fully mature man.I disagree to your statement "Faida sawaytuhu" Fashioning/evolution can take years!
May be this is off topic here ,if others think it is, we can discuss in another thread.
GOD bless you.
Peace.You seem not to have read. I did not say what you said. A mould - Bashr was created -- it was preened - then came the moment to vivify that preened structure - mould - modal. All process mentioned in Qur'aan are explained ayah by ayah.
Pl read again, we will discuss it threadbare.
Ok let us move to I just recalled having posted this topic
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610316.0
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The how mankind was created question, I agreed with your take on it and the verses you quoted.
From a single cell(water,materials...) and evolved) + reproduction+ RuhSalaam good logic
I want to understand how you establish that man was created out of nothing in the light of your above quoted understanding about creation of man.
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Peace Novice.
My understanding of the verse is the first creation was from nothing
"Awalam Yara...Anna Khalaqnahu MIN KABLU Wa lam Yakun Chaian".
MIN KABLU is key here, it means before he was created man.
Otherwise why use MIN KABLU? Before what?
GOD could have said just ; ...Kahlaqnahu Wa Lam Yakun Chaian."?
This and various other verses about "remind us" of our past errors leads me to this understanding.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Mazhar.
Ok thanks for the link.
I may join that conversation with you later.
I agree with some of your points there.
"Kul Seeroo FI Al Ardi... Kaifa Badaa Allak Al Khalq...Thumma Yueeduhu..."
Yes for sure evolution of the species took place along with mankind. However each species was designed inside that single cell starter to come out and evolve separately and independently.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Novice.
My understanding of the verse is the first creation was from nothing
"Awalam Yara...Anna Khalaqnahu MIN KABLU Wa lam Yakun Chaian".
MIN KABLU is key here, it means before he was created man.
Otherwise why use MIN KABLU? Before what?
GOD could have said just ; ...Kahlaqnahu Wa Lam Yakun Chaian."?
This and various other verses about "remind us" of our past errors leads me to this understanding.
GOD bless you.
Peace.1966-69
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and the man says will he be brought forth when he die. (It shows his denial of the truth told to him through the scripture)(
Does the man not reflect that we created him before he was nothing. (the man thinks he is something hence shows arrogance and rejection but before his creation he was dust i.e. nothing.(
So your Rabb is a witness, we will surely gather them and shayateen then make them present around jahannam fallen on their knees.then we will surely draw from every group those who were most rebellious against Ar-Rehman. (The man becomes rebellious when he think he is something.)
So brother good logic this is what I understand from these verses.
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God creates everything from Himself, fromhis rahma
Ar-rahmaan
(Allah) Most Gracious! (1) It is He Who has taught the Qur'an. (2) He has created man (3) He has taught him speech (and intelligence). (4) The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed; ....
Read de hole sura.
There can never exist nothing. Sha'i is thing.
Before his creation, man was nothing, no thing, but that does not mean that he was created from nothing, but rather that the creation he is or anything is before its creation is no thing, but God is, and is rahmaan, and all His names.
Salaam
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Thank you brother Novice for your take on the verses.
I understand from them that GOD is saying that we have already been recreated i.e we lived and died(before) and now we are created as humans . So indeed we will be resurrected again as another creation.(GOD creates a cycle and repeats a different cycle so that He completes His plan of Justice and Mercy towards all His creations- Trial, Judgement reward, sanction...Whatever is planned for what He creates)
GOD bless you.
Peace.