Petra is the Holy City of Islam
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Yes, rituals help but mindless rituals never helps, be it have some hidden wisdom or whatsoever, MANY are just happy following others, so called prophets, saints swamis etc..in that some may be successfull in understanding the rituals and refine themselves with some reasoning others fall in the name of idolising things and believe those who propagate these without questions, finally cause damage to themselves and their generations.
For example ritual prayer is good, but believing in 24hrs prayer day and night never cant be good.
similarly everything has a limit and purpose, many not interested or have time in reasoning, believe stories blindly fall into ignorance.Similarly penance can be good like doing regular hard excercies in a way it may help people gain immunity and strength, many do not worry about the reason and blindly believe in such things as it brought goodness to their forefathers.. but also they fail to see they have a changed lifestyle way different from their forefathers.
Modesty can be the best thing, as most rituals are to balance ourselves, and escape from the effects of going to extremities and accepting and respecting others too has their own freedom.
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level of intelligence gone so low with some individuals who cant even differentiate between NEED and RITUALS...
another ritual is eating food 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 times a day... sometimes i feel myself in (strange) universe of brilliant minds elektro rotfl
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Peace Imran.
So rituals are not needs?
Is Sawm a ritual ?
One could argue different people have different needs and rituals and needs overlap.
Intelligence as we define it/see it can sometimes be the height of ignorance.When we reflect brother, we can always see that we are not all that intelligent!
GOD bless you.
Peace -
Modesty can be the best thing, as most rituals are to balance ourselves, and escape from the effects of going to extremities and accepting and respecting others too has their own freedom.
Well said sun
level of intelligence gone so low with some individuals who cant even differentiate between NEED and RITUALS...
Ritual is an an action arising from convention or habit. People are subject to needs and habits since the day of their birth and yes, everything we do is a ritual.
People speak their everyday language yet think nothing about the meaning of the words they use.
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So the ritual of sleeping and washing was set by men ? Or what do call rituals?
Adding the excellent explanation given by others..
Sleeping isn't a ritual but Telling Stories to A Child before sleeping is a ritual.
Benefits is apparent- Develops communication and bonding to a child
- Build Social and emotional development
- Cognitive skills
- Improves attention
- Improves personality and knowledge
Yet, depending on the stories / tales being told the ritual can also potentially develop 'bad characteristics' within a child, if the tales contained
- Violence
- Hatred, especially hatred towards specific group (race / religion / nationality)
- Zealotry and Fanaticism portrayed as heroes
Washing is a component of ritual, definitely the benefits is well understood.
The Jews were among the group less impacted by the black death plague during the medieval era, due to their ritual of Mikveh, thus achieving better hygiene compared to the other group.Rituals are by men and should be for men... and not men for rituals..
Feel free to abandon or change any bad or mindless rituals...
Yes, rituals help but mindless rituals never helps, be it have some hidden wisdom or whatsoever
bravo Amen to that Amin..
Death started with Adam already, and is very clearly represented actually. But of course people imagine a couple hiding their body parts from angry man and running away and then being barred from eating from the second tree.
Death started with Adam???
Since the context of discussion of the above was about Gospel,
There wasn't any mentioned of "Adam story" in the Gospels book (Mark Matt Luke)With exception of Luke who oddly tried to build a genealogy of Jesus tracing him to Adam. Thus NOT Mr Jesus himself told the story about his own genealogy, because probably he didn't know that far either on his own genealogy. Just like all of us....
There wasn't any record of Mr Jesus explaining the "Sin / Death of Adam" that supposedly he tried to repair. Such thought developed much later, by others, after the demise of Mr Jesus...
Back to my main point on the matter..
The meanings of Mr Jesus story in the Gospel is clear, as I mentioned earlier, no need for additional efforts to unravel "hidden symbolism" inside.The book of Gospel told the story about
- Tyranny of Religion
- The hypocrisy of religious people.
- The fanatics are insane..
- The good might not always win (politically), but staying true to the principle of good is more important.
- Being sane / good might introduce risk of being framed, slandered, tortured, murdered but as mentioned above, staying true to the principle of good is more important.
- The most important commandment is treat others as you like to be treated, which acts as foundation of empathy.
- Rituals are for men and not men for rituals.
Today when they will push the button, a lot of idiots both local and on the NATO/international levels will run mindlessly with arms killing each other as the flock runs in the slaughterhouse, choosing between right or left door to the slaughterhouse as it somehow makes them a real difference, because they haven't analyzed the situation they are subject to in the first place.
Yet throughout the history; you will always find facts / story about human sanity in the midst of human insanity.
- Nazi Germany soldier who hides Jewish civilians in order to avoid him being transported to the camp.
- Japanese soldier who switched sides and fought for China after witnessing the horror performed by his own compatriots in Nanjing.
- Aztec warriors who helped the escape of captives bound to be sacrificed on the temple..
- A rich member of Jewish Sanhedrin (Council of Ulema) who helped and actually saved Jesus from death by crucifixion. (Joseph of Arimathea)
And many many untold others...
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Death started with Adam???
Since the context of discussion of the above was about Gospel,
There wasn't any mentioned of "Adam story" in the Gospels book (Mark Matt Luke)Yes, death started with Adam and the spiritual narrative of the Gospels is as connected to Genesis as is the respective Quranic narratives. We spoke about archetypes and meanings behind rituals. An archetype is universal therefore I can clearly see the very same narrative in both the Genesis (and Summer-Akkadian counterparts for Adam-Eve found in ancient Babylonian literature) as well as the Gospels.
Jesus frequently used expression "son of Man" which is ben-Adam in the Hebrew Bible, or bani-Adama (children of Man/Adam) in the Quran, because it is related to the mission of Jesus and enlightenment.
It is noteworthy to know what Adam is as well, because it is not just a narrative of a "first man", but has a wider meaning connected to this name.
In fact, death is nothing more than a state of sleep and degradation, which is expressed in the creation myth and the "fall". Death is wider than a simple cesation of work of a body.
There wasn't any record of Mr Jesus explaining the "Sin / Death of Adam" that supposedly he tried to repair. Such thought developed much later, by others, after the demise of Mr Jesus...
Yes, there is, just from canonical Gospels alone, besides the gnostic coptic texts. Matthew 1811 "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.". In the Gospel of Mark 103545 this episode takes place shortly after Jesus predicts his death.
no need for additional efforts to unravel "hidden symbolism" inside.
There is always a need in looking further and amount of hidden wisdom is inexhaustible as long as one is eager to see.
- Rituals are for men and not men for rituals.
He is mentioning here particularly the Sabbath, where he does not say rituals in general, but the commandments, and in this particular case - a contemplative-unifying mechanism/force, which Sabbath or salat (as an aspect of Sabbath) is. Yet the pharisees turned it into a day off, made it a civil law, which abrogates the innate meaning, which Jesus was "breaking" due to the meaninglessness of following such secularization of this teaching. Sabbath is not a day off, as I you may guess. But one who does not keep (adher to, stand by, follow) Sabbath will taste death, which is a state of commotion and ignorance. It is notable how he calls a Son of Man "lord of the Sabbath", and his disciples could not understand what he is saying, according to the canonical Gospel' narrative.
Yet throughout the history; you will always find facts / story about human sanity in the midst of human insanity.
Of course, there will always be cases when someone from amongst the minority will do something, which is completely counter-cultural and counter-social, since the latter is driven by other factors unrelated to the consciousness and soundness, which develops on individual level, but is driven by something what is called collective consciousness, which is something manipulated by many means. Thus it is paradoxal that one who is on his journey to unified spirituality has to, paradoxically, fastfrom the world as an apocryphal saying of Jesus goes. This way he/she will make his/her own mind and not throw tomatoes in someone who was officially proclaimed as heretic.
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g
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Peace jafar.
636 BC? Or this?http//www.answers.com/Q/Why_Was_Petra_abandoned
History is vague and weird ! Hard to know. I wonder when consistency of historical facts started? I mean we know for sure about the consistency and truthfulness of the history of the last 200 years or do we?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
SLM Good logic,
I wonder when consistency of historical facts started? I mean we know for sure about the consistency and truthfulness of the history of the last 200 years or do we?
honestly i think we dont know if its true or not ( i think we are brainwashed) .... i also think even that last 100 year are / were evil for the mankind ( and still going )
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Yes, thank you kaltun.
I agree with you.
A good job history has nothing to do with our salvation.
I mean how many people give different narrations on the same story .
Any story can never be told consistently by different people, each person gives their own twist on parts of it until it becomes a fable or legend.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace jafar.
636 BC? Or this?http//www.answers.com/Q/Why_Was_Petra_abandoned
History is vague and weird ! Hard to know. I wonder when consistency of historical facts started? I mean we know for sure about the consistency and truthfulness of the history of the last 200 years or do we?
"The last inhabitants left the city in 663 when the Arabs conquered the area."
Interesting... why did the inhabitants abandoned the city in 663?
And which Arabs? Given the Nabateans are Arabs themselves.. at least that's how the Roman calls them..Regardless of who the invader were, it's unnatural for population to abandon a city, given much effort has been made to such wonderful city.
Petra and surrounding area has been invaded many times before, by Macedonians, Romans, Persian, Byzantium.
None resulted in abandonment of the city as for the conqueror it's more beneficial to have a thriving population center which shall produce more tax revenue for them.Unless the invasion was 100% politically motivated.. and the conqueror doesn't seek tax revenue from it's inhabitants but total annihilation.
Mecca,Medina,Jerusalem,Damascus why you want to find out which place is the holy City?
I'm not interested to find the holy city of Islam or any other cult / sect / religion for that matter..
I'm curious about this unique settlement of Petra..story can never be told consistently by different people, each person gives their own twist on parts of it until it becomes a fable or legend.
Of course, and that's natural... that's why there is a need to listened to everyone side of the story. (reminding me of an old Phil Collins song)
And the most popular / official (hi)story usually were written by the winner / the side who were more powerful politically. -
Interesting... why did the inhabitants abandoned the city in 663?
And which Arabs? Given the Nabateans are Arabs themselves.. at least that's how the Roman calls them..I don't think it was a sudden abandonment but rather a gradual decline after earthquakes in 363 and then 551 crippled the city.
Interestingly Dan Gibson in this interview talks about how he first came across the Petra theory when someone from the Muslim "free thinkers" website contacted him. So I think it was actually free-minds that spawned the theory p
https//youtu.be/7M9g7HHjRRA
To be honest I'm not sure of how important the discussion as to the "holy city of Islam" is; guess it would depend upon ones own reading of the Qur'an and understanding of concepts such as Hajj and masjid Al haram.
But it's an interesting hypothesis and Petra truly is a fascinating place. Im not sure if I'm convinced of the Petra theory and I'm not sure we'll ever know the truth to be honest.
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Peace....
Even when I was reading quran I knew long back that masjid Al Haram or Kaaba or whatever holiplaces mentioned QURAN is not current Day Macca....
Let me turn to topic.... Whether it is Petra or not but definitely not Macca the current one....
After all what is the importance for us the masjid Al haram.... Not at all in my belief... Quran addresses the people of the past and people it was revealed I mean the community of Mohamed be it Arabs or the people of the book and Quran address commonly to entire human and jinn regardless of when and where they are living.... Haj and masjid Haram is totally irrelevant to me....
BTW the prophet Mohamed definitely lived in close proximity to isreal and where Lot lived and current Day Petra is much close to the truth.... After all it has only historical values... Nothing to do with our salvation.....
God guide us... -
SLM to all,
here an interesting fact
Petra is one of the world's most famous historical archeological sites. Thought to have been established in 312 BCE, Petra was located at a junction that China, India, Egypt, Greece, Rome, Syria and southern Arabia used for trading spices and silk, among other products. Also noteworthy is that this city had a water conduit system that provided water for 30,000 inhabitants and even allowed for gardens in the desert. To this day, only 15% of Petra has been explored.more logical than laying 1400 km further aka Mecca...
tell me what is logial picture A
https//cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/535398007743709216/544810337174552576/unknown.png
orpicture b
https//cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/535398007743709216/544811422786256898/unknown.pngsee the distance between them
https//cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/535398007743709216/544813161069674499/unknown.png
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SLM to all,
here an interesting fact
Petra is one of the world's most famous historical archeological sites. Thought to have been established in 312 BCE, Petra was located at a junction that China, India, Egypt, Greece, Rome, Syria and southern Arabia used for trading spices and silk, among other products. Also noteworthy is that this city had a water conduit system that provided water for 30,000 inhabitants and even allowed for gardens in the desert. To this day, only 15% of Petra has been explored.Correct.
And also the findings of ancient temple remains with idol / deity names which matched the names being described in Quran. (ie Allat, Manat, Hubal, Uzza and friends).
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabataean_religionmore logical than laying 1400 km further aka Mecca...
picture b
https//cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/535398007743709216/544811422786256898/unknown.pngA minor correction on the picture below.
The ancient trade route linking Europe to (Far East) Asia, also known as "String of Pearls" in Chinese, does not travel overland through Mecca or Medina.
Instead it travel through Sea...
From the gulf of Aden, through the red sea and branches off to "Aqaba" port in today's Jordan and traversed overland to Petra->Gaza->Jerusalem->Damascus and "Mios Hormos" port in Egypt.This was the during the time when there were no Suez canal.
The evidence can still be clearly seen as of today.
Today's sea trade route is still similar, but with majority of the trade goes through the suez canal.https//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Periplous_of_the_Erythraean_Sea.svg/800px-Periplous_of_the_Erythraean_Sea.svg.png
Ancient East-West trade routes (1st century AD)