Petra is the Holy City of Islam
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Death started with Adam???
Since the context of discussion of the above was about Gospel,
There wasn't any mentioned of "Adam story" in the Gospels book (Mark Matt Luke)Yes, death started with Adam and the spiritual narrative of the Gospels is as connected to Genesis as is the respective Quranic narratives. We spoke about archetypes and meanings behind rituals. An archetype is universal therefore I can clearly see the very same narrative in both the Genesis (and Summer-Akkadian counterparts for Adam-Eve found in ancient Babylonian literature) as well as the Gospels.
Jesus frequently used expression "son of Man" which is ben-Adam in the Hebrew Bible, or bani-Adama (children of Man/Adam) in the Quran, because it is related to the mission of Jesus and enlightenment.
It is noteworthy to know what Adam is as well, because it is not just a narrative of a "first man", but has a wider meaning connected to this name.
In fact, death is nothing more than a state of sleep and degradation, which is expressed in the creation myth and the "fall". Death is wider than a simple cesation of work of a body.
There wasn't any record of Mr Jesus explaining the "Sin / Death of Adam" that supposedly he tried to repair. Such thought developed much later, by others, after the demise of Mr Jesus...
Yes, there is, just from canonical Gospels alone, besides the gnostic coptic texts. Matthew 1811 "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.". In the Gospel of Mark 103545 this episode takes place shortly after Jesus predicts his death.
no need for additional efforts to unravel "hidden symbolism" inside.
There is always a need in looking further and amount of hidden wisdom is inexhaustible as long as one is eager to see.
- Rituals are for men and not men for rituals.
He is mentioning here particularly the Sabbath, where he does not say rituals in general, but the commandments, and in this particular case - a contemplative-unifying mechanism/force, which Sabbath or salat (as an aspect of Sabbath) is. Yet the pharisees turned it into a day off, made it a civil law, which abrogates the innate meaning, which Jesus was "breaking" due to the meaninglessness of following such secularization of this teaching. Sabbath is not a day off, as I you may guess. But one who does not keep (adher to, stand by, follow) Sabbath will taste death, which is a state of commotion and ignorance. It is notable how he calls a Son of Man "lord of the Sabbath", and his disciples could not understand what he is saying, according to the canonical Gospel' narrative.
Yet throughout the history; you will always find facts / story about human sanity in the midst of human insanity.
Of course, there will always be cases when someone from amongst the minority will do something, which is completely counter-cultural and counter-social, since the latter is driven by other factors unrelated to the consciousness and soundness, which develops on individual level, but is driven by something what is called collective consciousness, which is something manipulated by many means. Thus it is paradoxal that one who is on his journey to unified spirituality has to, paradoxically, fastfrom the world as an apocryphal saying of Jesus goes. This way he/she will make his/her own mind and not throw tomatoes in someone who was officially proclaimed as heretic.
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g
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Peace jafar.
636 BC? Or this?http//www.answers.com/Q/Why_Was_Petra_abandoned
History is vague and weird ! Hard to know. I wonder when consistency of historical facts started? I mean we know for sure about the consistency and truthfulness of the history of the last 200 years or do we?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
SLM Good logic,
I wonder when consistency of historical facts started? I mean we know for sure about the consistency and truthfulness of the history of the last 200 years or do we?
honestly i think we dont know if its true or not ( i think we are brainwashed) .... i also think even that last 100 year are / were evil for the mankind ( and still going )
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Yes, thank you kaltun.
I agree with you.
A good job history has nothing to do with our salvation.
I mean how many people give different narrations on the same story .
Any story can never be told consistently by different people, each person gives their own twist on parts of it until it becomes a fable or legend.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace jafar.
636 BC? Or this?http//www.answers.com/Q/Why_Was_Petra_abandoned
History is vague and weird ! Hard to know. I wonder when consistency of historical facts started? I mean we know for sure about the consistency and truthfulness of the history of the last 200 years or do we?
"The last inhabitants left the city in 663 when the Arabs conquered the area."
Interesting... why did the inhabitants abandoned the city in 663?
And which Arabs? Given the Nabateans are Arabs themselves.. at least that's how the Roman calls them..Regardless of who the invader were, it's unnatural for population to abandon a city, given much effort has been made to such wonderful city.
Petra and surrounding area has been invaded many times before, by Macedonians, Romans, Persian, Byzantium.
None resulted in abandonment of the city as for the conqueror it's more beneficial to have a thriving population center which shall produce more tax revenue for them.Unless the invasion was 100% politically motivated.. and the conqueror doesn't seek tax revenue from it's inhabitants but total annihilation.
Mecca,Medina,Jerusalem,Damascus why you want to find out which place is the holy City?
I'm not interested to find the holy city of Islam or any other cult / sect / religion for that matter..
I'm curious about this unique settlement of Petra..story can never be told consistently by different people, each person gives their own twist on parts of it until it becomes a fable or legend.
Of course, and that's natural... that's why there is a need to listened to everyone side of the story. (reminding me of an old Phil Collins song)
And the most popular / official (hi)story usually were written by the winner / the side who were more powerful politically. -
Interesting... why did the inhabitants abandoned the city in 663?
And which Arabs? Given the Nabateans are Arabs themselves.. at least that's how the Roman calls them..I don't think it was a sudden abandonment but rather a gradual decline after earthquakes in 363 and then 551 crippled the city.
Interestingly Dan Gibson in this interview talks about how he first came across the Petra theory when someone from the Muslim "free thinkers" website contacted him. So I think it was actually free-minds that spawned the theory p
https//youtu.be/7M9g7HHjRRA
To be honest I'm not sure of how important the discussion as to the "holy city of Islam" is; guess it would depend upon ones own reading of the Qur'an and understanding of concepts such as Hajj and masjid Al haram.
But it's an interesting hypothesis and Petra truly is a fascinating place. Im not sure if I'm convinced of the Petra theory and I'm not sure we'll ever know the truth to be honest.
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Peace....
Even when I was reading quran I knew long back that masjid Al Haram or Kaaba or whatever holiplaces mentioned QURAN is not current Day Macca....
Let me turn to topic.... Whether it is Petra or not but definitely not Macca the current one....
After all what is the importance for us the masjid Al haram.... Not at all in my belief... Quran addresses the people of the past and people it was revealed I mean the community of Mohamed be it Arabs or the people of the book and Quran address commonly to entire human and jinn regardless of when and where they are living.... Haj and masjid Haram is totally irrelevant to me....
BTW the prophet Mohamed definitely lived in close proximity to isreal and where Lot lived and current Day Petra is much close to the truth.... After all it has only historical values... Nothing to do with our salvation.....
God guide us... -
SLM to all,
here an interesting fact
Petra is one of the world's most famous historical archeological sites. Thought to have been established in 312 BCE, Petra was located at a junction that China, India, Egypt, Greece, Rome, Syria and southern Arabia used for trading spices and silk, among other products. Also noteworthy is that this city had a water conduit system that provided water for 30,000 inhabitants and even allowed for gardens in the desert. To this day, only 15% of Petra has been explored.more logical than laying 1400 km further aka Mecca...
tell me what is logial picture A
https//cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/535398007743709216/544810337174552576/unknown.png
orpicture b
https//cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/535398007743709216/544811422786256898/unknown.pngsee the distance between them
https//cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/535398007743709216/544813161069674499/unknown.png
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SLM to all,
here an interesting fact
Petra is one of the world's most famous historical archeological sites. Thought to have been established in 312 BCE, Petra was located at a junction that China, India, Egypt, Greece, Rome, Syria and southern Arabia used for trading spices and silk, among other products. Also noteworthy is that this city had a water conduit system that provided water for 30,000 inhabitants and even allowed for gardens in the desert. To this day, only 15% of Petra has been explored.Correct.
And also the findings of ancient temple remains with idol / deity names which matched the names being described in Quran. (ie Allat, Manat, Hubal, Uzza and friends).
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabataean_religionmore logical than laying 1400 km further aka Mecca...
picture b
https//cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/535398007743709216/544811422786256898/unknown.pngA minor correction on the picture below.
The ancient trade route linking Europe to (Far East) Asia, also known as "String of Pearls" in Chinese, does not travel overland through Mecca or Medina.
Instead it travel through Sea...
From the gulf of Aden, through the red sea and branches off to "Aqaba" port in today's Jordan and traversed overland to Petra->Gaza->Jerusalem->Damascus and "Mios Hormos" port in Egypt.This was the during the time when there were no Suez canal.
The evidence can still be clearly seen as of today.
Today's sea trade route is still similar, but with majority of the trade goes through the suez canal.https//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Periplous_of_the_Erythraean_Sea.svg/800px-Periplous_of_the_Erythraean_Sea.svg.png
Ancient East-West trade routes (1st century AD) -
Peace....
Even when I was reading quran I knew long back that masjid Al Haram or Kaaba or whatever holiplaces mentioned QURAN is not current Day Macca....
Let me turn to topic.... Whether it is Petra or not but definitely not Macca the current one....
After all what is the importance for us the masjid Al haram.... Not at all in my belief... Quran addresses the people of the past and people it was revealed I mean the community of Mohamed be it Arabs or the people of the book and Quran address commonly to entire human and jinn regardless of when and where they are living.... Haj and masjid Haram is totally irrelevant to me....
BTW the prophet Mohamed definitely lived in close proximity to isreal and where Lot lived and current Day Petra is much close to the truth.... After all it has only historical values... Nothing to do with our salvation.....
God guide us...Peace Everyone...
We can take the below verse also to support that Israel is so close proximity to where Mohamed lived...
2211 "Ask the Children of Israel how many a clear sign We gave them. Whoso changes God's blessing after it has come to him, God is terrible in retribution."
Where is Makka and Israel to ASK from the CHILDREN of ISRAEL... not at all ..... If PETRA then that is very reasonable if Israel was in fact not only the current day areas of Israel..which should be extended up to the borders of Petra and where Lut lived...
May God guide us.. -
Here is something from another source. Flavius Josephus a roman-israelite historian wrote a lot about Petra in his chronics about the Roman conquest of Judea
And when he had predisposed them both to do what he would have them, he took Hyrcanus by night, and ran away from the city, and, continuing his flight with great swiftness, he escaped to the place called Petra, which is the royal seat of the king of Arabia, where he put Hyrcanus into Aretas's hand; and by discoursing much with him, and gaining upon him with many presents, he prevailed with him to give him an army that might restore him to his kingdom.
- Flavius Josephus The Wars of the Jews / Chapter 6 - 2nd passage
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Peace all..
2122 “O Children of Israel, remember My favor which I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds.”
Can anyone say that Quran doesn’t address the Children of Isreal… Does God ever address any community except Isreal… Adam is different.. Simply like “ O! children of Misr .. etc”.. I didn’t find, correct me if so…
Calling the entire human and specifically calling Isreal has a huge difference… it shows that this quran is directly addressing the Israelite… There is no point if they were not living close proximity mingling with the community of Mohamed.26197 “And has it not been a sign to them that it is recognized by the scholars of the Children of Israel?”
What this verse says….honestly, God wouldn’t have said this unless the people of Muhamed and Children of Israel are close proximity and each other knew their each others language to a great extent..What about this..
2776 “ Indeed, this Qur'an relates to the Children of Israel most of that over which they disagree.”
Ponder my dear people… you can get a lot to support that makka has no relation with Muhamed…
616 And when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic."
Give thoughts… -
Peace all..
2122 “O Children of Israel, remember My favor which I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds.”
Can anyone say that Quran doesn’t address the Children of Isreal… Does God ever address any community except Isreal… Adam is different.. Simply like “ O! children of Misr .. etc”.. I didn’t find, correct me if so…
Calling the entire human and specifically calling Isreal has a huge difference… it shows that this quran is directly addressing the Israelite… There is no point if they were not living close proximity mingling with the community of Mohamed.26197 “And has it not been a sign to them that it is recognized by the scholars of the Children of Israel?”
What this verse says….honestly, God wouldn’t have said this unless the people of Muhamed and Children of Israel are close proximity and each other knew their each others language to a great extent..What about this..
2776 “ Indeed, this Qur'an relates to the Children of Israel most of that over which they disagree.”
Ponder my dear people… you can get a lot to support that makka has no relation with Muhamed…
616 And when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic."
Give thoughts…For me very interesting the verses which involves Israel to presume where actually Mohamed would have lived.... I suggest to everyone to take all israel verses and explore in your own way ...
God guide us... -
Peace to everyone,
I agree that the information Dan Gibson has provided in his book 'Early Islamic Qiblahs' is very fascinating.
I think people should have a visit there. It truly is an amazing city. If anyone is interested to discover the secrets of that place, there is really no better way than doing it outside with the local bedouin people.
It happens to be that I have made a trip to Petra and I recommend this beautiful accommadtion called Why not Bedouin home? You may find the link on booking https//www.booking.com/hotel/jo/why-not-bedouin-home.nl.htmlShould anyone feel the need of contacting me about it, feel free to do so via PM.
Peace,
SweetFlower87