Petra is the Holy City of Islam

Jafar

Peace jafar.
636 BC? Or this?

http//www.answers.com/Q/Why_Was_Petra_abandoned

History is vague and weird ! Hard to know. I wonder when consistency of historical facts started? I mean we know for sure about the consistency and truthfulness of the history of the last 200 years or do we?

"The last inhabitants left the city in 663 when the Arabs conquered the area."

Interesting... why did the inhabitants abandoned the city in 663?
And which Arabs? Given the Nabateans are Arabs themselves.. at least that's how the Roman calls them..

Regardless of who the invader were, it's unnatural for population to abandon a city, given much effort has been made to such wonderful city.
Petra and surrounding area has been invaded many times before, by Macedonians, Romans, Persian, Byzantium.
None resulted in abandonment of the city as for the conqueror it's more beneficial to have a thriving population center which shall produce more tax revenue for them.

Unless the invasion was 100% politically motivated.. and the conqueror doesn't seek tax revenue from it's inhabitants but total annihilation.

Mecca,Medina,Jerusalem,Damascus why you want to find out which place is the holy City?

I'm not interested to find the holy city of Islam or any other cult / sect / religion for that matter..
I'm curious about this unique settlement of Petra..

story can never be told consistently by different people, each person gives their own twist on parts of it until it becomes a fable or legend.

Of course, and that's natural... that's why there is a need to listened to everyone side of the story. (reminding me of an old Phil Collins song)
And the most popular / official (hi)story usually were written by the winner / the side who were more powerful politically.

Incognito 0

Interesting... why did the inhabitants abandoned the city in 663?
And which Arabs? Given the Nabateans are Arabs themselves.. at least that's how the Roman calls them..

I don't think it was a sudden abandonment but rather a gradual decline after earthquakes in 363 and then 551 crippled the city.

Interestingly Dan Gibson in this interview talks about how he first came across the Petra theory when someone from the Muslim "free thinkers" website contacted him. So I think it was actually free-minds that spawned the theory p

https//youtu.be/7M9g7HHjRRA

To be honest I'm not sure of how important the discussion as to the "holy city of Islam" is; guess it would depend upon ones own reading of the Qur'an and understanding of concepts such as Hajj and masjid Al haram.

But it's an interesting hypothesis and Petra truly is a fascinating place. Im not sure if I'm convinced of the Petra theory and I'm not sure we'll ever know the truth to be honest.

jkhan

Peace....
Even when I was reading quran I knew long back that masjid Al Haram or Kaaba or whatever holiplaces mentioned QURAN is not current Day Macca....
Let me turn to topic.... Whether it is Petra or not but definitely not Macca the current one....
After all what is the importance for us the masjid Al haram.... Not at all in my belief... Quran addresses the people of the past and people it was revealed I mean the community of Mohamed be it Arabs or the people of the book and Quran address commonly to entire human and jinn regardless of when and where they are living.... Haj and masjid Haram is totally irrelevant to me....
BTW the prophet Mohamed definitely lived in close proximity to isreal and where Lot lived and current Day Petra is much close to the truth.... After all it has only historical values... Nothing to do with our salvation.....
God guide us...

kaltun

SLM to all,

here an interesting fact
Petra is one of the world's most famous historical archeological sites. Thought to have been established in 312 BCE, Petra was located at a junction that China, India, Egypt, Greece, Rome, Syria and southern Arabia used for trading spices and silk, among other products. Also noteworthy is that this city had a water conduit system that provided water for 30,000 inhabitants and even allowed for gardens in the desert. To this day, only 15% of Petra has been explored.

more logical than laying 1400 km further aka Mecca...
tell me what is logial picture A
https//cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/535398007743709216/544810337174552576/unknown.png
or

picture b
https//cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/535398007743709216/544811422786256898/unknown.png

see the distance between them

https//cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/535398007743709216/544813161069674499/unknown.png

Jafar

SLM to all,

here an interesting fact
Petra is one of the world's most famous historical archeological sites. Thought to have been established in 312 BCE, Petra was located at a junction that China, India, Egypt, Greece, Rome, Syria and southern Arabia used for trading spices and silk, among other products. Also noteworthy is that this city had a water conduit system that provided water for 30,000 inhabitants and even allowed for gardens in the desert. To this day, only 15% of Petra has been explored.

Correct.
And also the findings of ancient temple remains with idol / deity names which matched the names being described in Quran. (ie Allat, Manat, Hubal, Uzza and friends).
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabataean_religion

more logical than laying 1400 km further aka Mecca...
picture b
https//cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/535398007743709216/544811422786256898/unknown.png

A minor correction on the picture below.
The ancient trade route linking Europe to (Far East) Asia, also known as "String of Pearls" in Chinese, does not travel overland through Mecca or Medina.
Instead it travel through Sea...
From the gulf of Aden, through the red sea and branches off to "Aqaba" port in today's Jordan and traversed overland to Petra->Gaza->Jerusalem->Damascus and "Mios Hormos" port in Egypt.

This was the during the time when there were no Suez canal.
The evidence can still be clearly seen as of today.
Today's sea trade route is still similar, but with majority of the trade goes through the suez canal.

https//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Periplous_of_the_Erythraean_Sea.svg/800px-Periplous_of_the_Erythraean_Sea.svg.png
Ancient East-West trade routes (1st century AD)

Abaddon

Did the reconstruction of the fake kaaba/mecca actually happened after Hussein got murdered? Is it possible that those responsible for his death are also responsible for this great deception?

Abaddon

Hussein Grandson of the Prophet.

jkhan

Peace....
Even when I was reading quran I knew long back that masjid Al Haram or Kaaba or whatever holiplaces mentioned QURAN is not current Day Macca....
Let me turn to topic.... Whether it is Petra or not but definitely not Macca the current one....
After all what is the importance for us the masjid Al haram.... Not at all in my belief... Quran addresses the people of the past and people it was revealed I mean the community of Mohamed be it Arabs or the people of the book and Quran address commonly to entire human and jinn regardless of when and where they are living.... Haj and masjid Haram is totally irrelevant to me....
BTW the prophet Mohamed definitely lived in close proximity to isreal and where Lot lived and current Day Petra is much close to the truth.... After all it has only historical values... Nothing to do with our salvation.....
God guide us...

Peace Everyone...

We can take the below verse also to support that Israel is so close proximity to where Mohamed lived...

2211 "Ask the Children of Israel how many a clear sign We gave them. Whoso changes God's blessing after it has come to him, God is terrible in retribution."

Where is Makka and Israel to ASK from the CHILDREN of ISRAEL... not at all ..... If PETRA then that is very reasonable if Israel was in fact not only the current day areas of Israel..which should be extended up to the borders of Petra and where Lut lived...
May God guide us..

Abaddon

Here is something from another source. Flavius Josephus a roman-israelite historian wrote a lot about Petra in his chronics about the Roman conquest of Judea

And when he had predisposed them both to do what he would have them, he took Hyrcanus by night, and ran away from the city, and, continuing his flight with great swiftness, he escaped to the place called Petra, which is the royal seat of the king of Arabia, where he put Hyrcanus into Aretas's hand; and by discoursing much with him, and gaining upon him with many presents, he prevailed with him to give him an army that might restore him to his kingdom.

Flavius Josephus The Wars of the Jews / Chapter 6 - 2nd passage

jkhan

Peace all..

2122 “O Children of Israel, remember My favor which I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds.”
Can anyone say that Quran doesn’t address the Children of Isreal… Does God ever address any community except Isreal… Adam is different.. Simply like “ O! children of Misr .. etc”.. I didn’t find, correct me if so…
Calling the entire human and specifically calling Isreal has a huge difference… it shows that this quran is directly addressing the Israelite… There is no point if they were not living close proximity mingling with the community of Mohamed.

26197 “And has it not been a sign to them that it is recognized by the scholars of the Children of Israel?”
What this verse says….honestly, God wouldn’t have said this unless the people of Muhamed and Children of Israel are close proximity and each other knew their each others language to a great extent..

What about this..
2776 “ Indeed, this Qur'an relates to the Children of Israel most of that over which they disagree.”
Ponder my dear people… you can get a lot to support that makka has no relation with Muhamed…
616 And when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic."
Give thoughts…

jkhan

Peace all..

2122 “O Children of Israel, remember My favor which I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds.”
Can anyone say that Quran doesn’t address the Children of Isreal… Does God ever address any community except Isreal… Adam is different.. Simply like “ O! children of Misr .. etc”.. I didn’t find, correct me if so…
Calling the entire human and specifically calling Isreal has a huge difference… it shows that this quran is directly addressing the Israelite… There is no point if they were not living close proximity mingling with the community of Mohamed.

26197 “And has it not been a sign to them that it is recognized by the scholars of the Children of Israel?”
What this verse says….honestly, God wouldn’t have said this unless the people of Muhamed and Children of Israel are close proximity and each other knew their each others language to a great extent..

What about this..
2776 “ Indeed, this Qur'an relates to the Children of Israel most of that over which they disagree.”
Ponder my dear people… you can get a lot to support that makka has no relation with Muhamed…
616 And when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic."
Give thoughts…

For me very interesting the verses which involves Israel to presume where actually Mohamed would have lived.... I suggest to everyone to take all israel verses and explore in your own way ...
God guide us...

Sweetflower87

Peace to everyone,

I agree that the information Dan Gibson has provided in his book 'Early Islamic Qiblahs' is very fascinating.

I think people should have a visit there. It truly is an amazing city. If anyone is interested to discover the secrets of that place, there is really no better way than doing it outside with the local bedouin people.
It happens to be that I have made a trip to Petra and I recommend this beautiful accommadtion called Why not Bedouin home? You may find the link on booking https//www.booking.com/hotel/jo/why-not-bedouin-home.nl.html

Should anyone feel the need of contacting me about it, feel free to do so via PM.

Peace,
SweetFlower87

Wakas

https//muslimheritage.com/pibla-back-to-qibla/

Preliminary note Dan Gibson’s new book claims to turn upside down all of what we know about one aspect of early Islamic practice, namely, the sacred direction (qibla) toward the Kaaba in Makka. He believes that Islam began in Petra, not Makka, and that the focus of Muslim prayer for the first two centuries was toward Petra, not Makka. As evidence for this he attempts to show that dozens of early mosques face Petra with remarkable accuracy. Since his revolutionary ideas ignore what modern scholarship has established about the early qibla, I present an overview of how things actually were. I then show how Gibson has misunderstood most of the data at his disposal, comparing medieval mosque orientations with modern directions of Petra and Makka, and why his interpretation is completely flawed. In brief, he has wrought havoc with information that he cannot master, and has – wittingly or unwittingly – produced an amateurish, non-scholarly document that is both offensive to Muslims and also an insult to Muslim and Western scholarship. None of the mosques investigated by Gibson has anything to do with Petra. Nor, indeed, has early Islam.

tutti_frutti

salam wakas

hope you are well

mais i ask you, where do you think is the holy land or location of Sacred Mosque and which of the temples is the actual Sacred Mosque?

peace

Wakas

salam wakas

hope you are well

mais i ask you, where do you think is the holy land or location of Sacred Mosque and which of the temples is the actual Sacred Mosque?

peace

http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html

In terms of specific location I think Quran is vague on purpose so as not to allow for veneration of a specific location or building etc. I discuss this in the article above. Also here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.html

tutti_frutti

salam wakas

thank uou for your atticles (i had already looked through them before i will again more closely)

however i must disagree eith you a out the Quran being vague about the location

i think the Quran has clues about where the Sacres Temple is and one must ask The God knoweldge and permission to know the location and hope The God would want to teach us

some clues about location of the templs may include

it is located in a valley

uncultivated land

near a mother of cities

in a secure land

war all around it but it has not suffered from it

some clues about the town of mohamed

mother of cities

mention of dinar and quintar in the Quran (were they currencies or some form of money used in the town of mohamed?)

maybe near the sea? (as The God mentions how sea food is permissible however i do not know if mention of the permission was in general only or both in general and a clue to the people of mohamed as they perhaps lived by the sea)

children of israel are there as well as nazarenes

i think a place occupied by romans or romans attempting to occupy

near the people of lot

there are clues to the whom the people of lot where

they perhaps domesticated or hunted elephants
in a known route
the top of the city became its lowest
hit by rocks of clay

also if one thinks that jacob did not emigrate and stayed in same land as abraham ... perhaps a land that is not far from egypt? as jospeh’s brothers went back and from from where jacob was egypt

also, as i read the Quran i sometimes get the feeling that the holy land is actually in egypt
i get feeling children of israel inherited egypt

however some arguments against egypt

i understand the second qibla was not jeruslame but actually their homes in egypt (1087) so if the temple was in egypt maybe the qibla would have been the temple unless a test from The God for future generations
children of israel emigrated to egypt through hospeh and his brothers so i an not sure about that

... then sometimes i think its syria/lebanon
but then everyone says jerusalem so i get confused

anyways i am confused lol and everything i said above might be wrong

thank you for the articles

may The God please guide us and that we may with His permission worship Him at the Sacred Temple

peace

Wakas

I appreciate you compiling such a list but it seems to me you have conflated/mixed things.

My articles are very heavy with info sometimes so it can be a lot to take in. I usually start threads for each article I write. You can take a look at those to see how much of what I wrote was shown to have errors, disproven, or how many actually answered the questions/issues I raised therein. The most common response I get (from someone who holds a different view) is "yeah I read your article..........." (and they remain silent about the issues/questions).

good_logic

Peace tutti-frutti.

Do not worry if you disagree with others or not understand their view/s. What is important is to go with your own intuition/understanding.
Everyone has questions and false understanding to sort out. Confirmation bias gets into the mix of researching properly.

Who among us think they have all the answers?
Should our aim and intention be other than to search for the truth?

What use is ramming our truth down people s throats serve? Should we force our views to inflate our ego and boast?
Having the truth is personal and f to use for our own interest ,not to" beat "others with it!

We are all on a journey of investigation , it is better to concern ourselves with our own questions and issues .
If someone is offering views,challenges,good research/conclusions or even asking the right questions,then they should humbly accept that folks can use it as they see fit and hope that some folks will benefit from it, others won t and some may ignore it altogether.

Our duty of searching is to ourselves ,do not worry brother as long as you start on the straight path-GOOD deeds /good morals- the rest is your own journey independent of anyone else and their views/conclusions/issues,only dependent on GOD Alone.
Go your own pace
Relax and keep searching at your own pace.
GOD bless you.
Peace.