Pork is HALAL
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Peace kaltun.
Shahm with maggots has nothing to do me it is a problem for brother Mahdi..
I am simply returning the logic of the brother back to him that proves he is wrong.Look again here, explained to you again
Brother Mahdi is saying pork is not mentioned in 6146. Therefore it is halal.
Not withstanding the fact that I explained the context of 6146 . Mainly all items there were additional to the Jews only not for believers of Qoran, otherwise Qoran would have forbidden the items of 6146, but did not.
The common items that are forbidden for both are in 6145.Brother Mahdi is saying "Lahm Khinzeer" in 6145 verse is "All maggoty stinking flesh".
I said 6146 did not mention "Shahma Al Khinzeer"- because Lahm does not mean fat.
All you have to do brother is leave some fat outside in the heat and see for yourself after a day or two, full of maggots.
According to his logic this Shahm is halal like he claims the pork is.Therefor his translation of "Lahm Khinzeer" is wrong.It does not include all foods like he is saying.
Brother Mahdi.
You are evading the problem . You are merely repeating your wrong translation and sticking to falsehood claiming it makes sense when you clearly see it does not. Grammatically, logicalyand of course common sense.Please yourself. I am not going to repeat myself to you.
It is time for you to accept good logic. Do not pretend you do not see the problem.
You are not talking about "fat" because you are choosing to ignore it.
Thank you both brothers.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
Brother Mahdi is saying "Lahm Khinzeer" in 6145 verse is "All maggoty stinking flesh".
I said 6146 did not mention "Shahma Al Khinzeer"- because Lahm does not mean fat.
All you have to do brother is leave some fat outside in the heat and see for yourself after a day or two, full of maggots.
According to his logic this Shahm is halal like he claims the pork is.your saying, not mine...
Fat was made haram for the Jews, with or without maggots. It is not an issue at all....
and your argument does not change the fact that Allah does not make pork haram for the Jews, and pork is halal for the Jews and Muslim...
Allah said pork is halal for the Jews and Muslim
You said pork is haram for the Jews and MuslimTwisting His words, and inconsistently make haram fresh meat/pork AS EQUAL TO dead animal and blood...
https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51515994_2278576255692286_1089165012905230336_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=89603edda44036894cd40324a94152fb&oe=5CBB4488
WE MADE HARAM FOR THE JEWS every animal with an undivided hoof, and in respect of cattle and sheep, We made their fat haram for them, except what is attached to their backs or guts or mixed up with bone. That is how We repaid them for their insolence. And WE CERTAINLY SPEAK THE TRUTH (not the Torah/Bible). (6146)
.
(nothing mentioned about pork was made haram for the Jews, accordingly
.
The FOOD OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK (pork) is also halal for you ... anyone who rejects iman (halal foods and pork), his actions will COME TO NOTHING and in the Next World he will be among the LOSERS. (55) -
Peace Mahdi.
This is what you say, quoteAllah said pork is halal for the Jews and Muslim
You said pork is haram for the Jews and Muslim.The truth is that you say pork is halal because of your misunderstanding and completely contrary to what Qoran is saying..
I have shown you your error. I cannot make you accept it.The irony is you are going against your "Islam" that you claim should be based on evidence and good sense.
Enjoy your pork brother if you still wish to continue claiming it is halal..
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
The truth is that you say pork is halal because of your misunderstanding and completely contrary to what Qoran is saying..
I have shown you your error. I cannot make you accept it.You show nothing and misunderstood my argument all by yourself..
You don't answer the issue and merely asserting blind claims/accusations..
https//image.slidesharecdn.com/00bargumentationacademiclanguage6thgrade-140107232719-phpapp01/95/what-is-an-argument-a-foundation-for-ela-in-the-common-core-era-8-638.jpg?cb=1389137651
not even close to an argument.
but the fallacy of ad nauseam
clear evidence you have no idea about "rules of logic" at all...
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Peace Mahdi.
You ignore the grammar of the verse 6145
You ignore the meaning of the word "Lahm" .
You ignore my explanation of 6146. mainly that in the context of the verses it is talking about additional items that were forbidden to The Jews only. Not everything that was forbidden to the Jews. It did not mention about blood or dead animals...etc..
Well 6146 did not mention meat of pork either . It does not mean it is halal.
You ignore that Lahm and Shahm cannot be the same in the Arabic language.
How can you then call your take a good argument?
And still you continue to repeat the same mistranslation. I do not know why brother.I have reached the stage now where I cannot take your argument seriously.
You are flogging a dead horse, actually a "maggoty stinking dead horse".
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Mahdi.
You ignore the grammar of the verse 6145
You ignore the meaning of the word "Lahm" .Really? Read here...
Quote from good logic on Today at 123701 AM
I am afraid brother, by insisting " Lahm" is fleshso you insist it should mean "MEAT ALONE"?
Quote from Mahdi Ibrahim on Yesterday at 095437 PM
nothing said it must be meat-pig or MEAT ALONE(Word by Word) ...and the flesh (of)
Muhammad Asad ...and the flesh of
M. M. Pickthall ...flesh and
Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985) ...and the flesh of
Yusuf Ali (Orig. 193 ...and the flesh of
Shakir ...and flesh of
Wahiduddin Khan ...and the flesh of
Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar ...and flesh of
Safi Kaskas ...and the flesh of
Abdul Hye ...the flesh of
The Study Quran ...and the flesh of
Abdul Majid Daryabadi ...flesh
Ahmed Ali ...and the flesh of
Ali Ünal ...and the flesh of
Ali Quli Qara'i ...the flesh of
Hamid S. Aziz ...and the flesh of
Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali ...and the flesh of
Muhammad Sarwar ...the flesh of
Muhammad Taqi Usmani ...the flesh of
Shabbir Ahmed ...flesh
Syed Vickar Ahamed ...and the flesh of
Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) ...the flesh of
Dr. Munir Munshey ...flesh
Dr. Kamal Omar ...and the flesh of
Talal A. Itani (new translation) ....and the flesh of
Maududi ....and the flesh of
A.L. Bilal Muhammad et al (201 ...the flesh of
Mohammad Shafi ...flesh offlesh
The flesh of a fruit or vegetable is the soft, inner part.
https//dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/flesh
http//i66.tinypic.com/j5b2v6.jpg
http//i64.tinypic.com/dpzuia.jpg
not necessarily meat alone, but also to date and walnut.
Even the Lane Lexicon said it does not apply to "MEAT ALONE"...
it clearly said "maggoty/stinking" ... "applied" to
(flesh) of a date
(flesh) of a walnutFLESH-meat
(FLESH (first subject matter) + MEAT (second subject matter) ... flesh and meat not the same thing)
inconsistently...
Quote from Mahdi Ibrahim on Yesterday at 095437 PM
(2013 Edition) ...and the meat of pigMeat ALONE...
https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31218584_2090517307831516_4558380402319206920_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=6f41b12b91c8d227bf4707416b1b42e5&oe=5CBC7556
So what is my problem? What is there to correct? !
https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51515994_2278576255692286_1089165012905230336_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=89603edda44036894cd40324a94152fb&oe=5CBB4488
https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51402309_2278600089023236_143549893070290944_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=a83413d2f72c7b15168d3c0ac22bcd9f&oe=5CB5B036
You ignore my explanation of 6146. mainly that in the context of the verses it is talking about additional items that were forbidden to The Jews only. Not everything that was forbidden to the Jews. It did not mention about blood or dead animals...etc..
So what? Why should I bother?
It does not change the FACT (ISSUE) that Allah does not make pork haram for the Jews...
Did Allah forget to mention about "Pork"?
WE MADE HARAM FOR THE JEWS ...(6146)
Still unable to understand the issue, in my first post?
https//i.imgur.com/Hsebp0y.jpg
Well 6146 did not mention meat of pork either . It does not mean it is halal.
According to you, but not the Quran.
Quote from good logic on Today at 074758 AM
according to your logic if Qoran does not mention it ,it is Halal.You who have iman! do not ask about matters which, if they were made known to you, would make things difficult for you. If you do ask about them when the Qur´an is being sent down, they will be made known to you. Allah has ignored them (pork, for the jews, and order "The FOOD OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK (pork) is also halal for you)". Allah is Ever-Forgiving, All-Forbearing. (5101)
even if it is bad to eat pork, no problem... "Allah is Ever-Forgiving, All-Forbearing."(5101)
So where is your authority from the Quran that it is haram (things Allah does not mentioned in the Quran)?
What verse?
You ignore that Lahm and Shahm cannot be the same in the Arabic language.
Who said about FAT?
You are putting an argument into my mouth..
and I've already explained this so many times that this has nothing to do with FAT.
https//static.abcteach.com/content_preview/p/poster_fallacy_redherring_p.jpg
The issue is Allah mentioned nothing that pork was made haram for the Jews, it is halal to them.... and accordingly it is halal to Muslim.
https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50690202_2278403975709514_242176807636303872_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=0bdd45171cd78ab0bd2c9daaaf8f4454&oe=5CF8CAC8
How can you then call your take a good argument?
And still you continue to repeat the same mistranslation. I do not know why brother.I have reached the stage now where I cannot take your argument seriously.
You are flogging a dead horse, actually a "maggoty stinking dead horse".another blind claims and...
Same thing, please study LOGIC.
https//slideplayer.com/slide/9005189/27/images/46/The+ad+nauseam+fallacy+is+really+more+of+a+persuasive+tactic+rather+than+a+form+of+logic..jpg
That is LOGIC FAILED.
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Peace Mahdi.
Jesus was right about the "log in one s eye".
Your AD NAUSEAM fallacy in this thread is the biggest by far and clear for all the readers to see.
Have more of it. It is your thread.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Jesus was right about the "log in one s eye".
another ad nauseam, by Jesus.
- By deceiving the audience into thinking that the counter objections have been dealt with (when they really have not).
https//image.slidesharecdn.com/00bargumentationacademiclanguage6thgrade-140107232719-phpapp01/95/what-is-an-argument-a-foundation-for-ela-in-the-common-core-era-8-638.jpg?cb=1389137651
https//creativeconflictwisdom.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/11143187_10152828270794646_8544693025519827565_n.jpg
Why don't they research the (interpretation and translation of the) Quran? Don't they realize that if it(s interpretation and translation) was from someone other than Allah/TRUTH (falsehood), they would find many discrepancies in it. (482)
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peace -- topic is dumb; horrible cross-reference, logic, and translations.
can't use pig in one verse to mean "rotten/stinky" whatever in another.likewise...
lahma consists of everything including 6146 fat theirs dual
khinziri/swine (noun) meat, fat, skin etc., see fish/bird examples2173 and flesh the swine
53 and flesh the swine
16115 and flesh the swine560 and the swines (compares human behavior)
6145 flesh swine2259 we cover it flesh of
2314 so cover we of the bones flesh of
4912 that devoured flesh brother his1614 the sea to thou eat ye of from it flesh of
3512 and from each thou eating flesh of (e.g. whole fish)2237 never reach the god flesh theirs
5222 with fruit and flesh from what desiring
5621 and flesh bird/fowl from what desiring (e.g. whole bird)
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lahma consists of everything including 6146 شحومهما fat theirs dual
khinziri/swine (noun) meat, fat, skin etc., see fish/bird examplesDoes that change the fact that Allah does not forbid pork for the Jews?
Did Allah forget to mention about "Pork"?
WE MADE HARAM FOR THE JEWS every animal with an undivided hoof, and in respect of cattle and sheep, We made their fat haram for them, except what is attached to their backs or guts or mixed up with bone. That is how We repaid them for their insolence. And WE CERTAINLY SPEAK THE TRUTH (not the Torah/Bible). (6146)
• And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you. Leviticus 117-8 ESV
• And the pig, because it parts the hoof but does not chew the cud, is unclean for you. Their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch. Deuteronomy 148 ESV
Accordingly
The FOOD (flesh of swine) OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK is also halal for you ... anyone who rejects iman (halal foods and flesh of swine), his actions will COME TO NOTHING and in the Next World he will be among the LOSERS. (55)
and flesh means...
http//i66.tinypic.com/j5b2v6.jpg
not necessarily meat alone, but also to date and walnut.
Even the Lane Lexicon said it does not apply to "MEAT ALONE"...
it clearly said "maggoty/stinking" ... "applied" to
(flesh) of a date
(flesh) of a walnutFLESH-meat
(FLESH (first subject matter) + MEAT/DATE/WALNUT/FRUIT (second subject matter) ... flesh and meat not the same thing)
flesh
The flesh of a fruit or vegetable is the soft, inner part.
https//dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/flesh
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Does that change the fact that Allah does not forbid pork to the Jews?
what's the word for jews?
why do you care about jews?
what has to do with what's prohibited?btw, start new thread since swine flesh is prohibited period! (end of conversation!)
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what's the word for jews?
why do you care about jews?
what has to do with what's prohibited?btw, start new thread since swine flesh is prohibited period! (end of conversation!)
Because of this...
The FOOD (flesh of swine) OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK is also halal for you ... anyone who rejects iman (halal foods and flesh of swine), his actions/amal will COME TO NOTHING and in the Next World he will be among the LOSERS. (55)
and verse 6145 (pork was prohibited???) must be consistent with verse 6146 (pork was allowed)
Do you then believe in a part of the Book and disbelieve in the other? (285)
so
Does that change the fact that Allah does not forbid pork for the Jews?
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Why don't they research the (interpretation and translation of the) Quran? Don't they realize that if it(s interpretation and translation) was from someone other than Allah/TRUTH (falsehood), they would find many discrepancies in it. (482)
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Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego -- Latin for "let Apella the Jew believe, not I"
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Please study LOGIC.
https//creativeconflictwisdom.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/11143187_10152828270794646_8544693025519827565_n.jpg
and verse 6145 (pork was prohibited???) must be consistent with verse 6146 (pork was allowed)
The FOOD (flesh of swine) OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK is also halal for you ... anyone who rejects iman (halal foods and flesh of swine), his actions will COME TO NOTHING and in the Next World he will be among the LOSERS. (55)
Do you then believe in a part of the Book and disbelieve in the other? (285)
so
Does that change the fact that Allah does not forbid pork for the Jews?
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As for those who deny Our Signs and are arrogant regarding them, the Gates of Heaven will not be opened for them, and they will not enter the Garden until a camel goes through a needle´s eye. That is how We repay the evildoers. (740)
On that Day, We shall ask Hell, Are you now full? Hell will answer, Are there any more? (5030)
wishful thinking is one thing, reality is ANOTHER.
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These people of ours have taken LordLaws apart from Him/Sunnatullah/Law of Nature/EcoLogic. Why do they not produce a clear argument concerning them? (Accordingly) Who could do greater wrong than someone who invents a lie against Allah/Sunnatullah/Law of Nature/EcoLogic? (1815)
https//image.slidesharecdn.com/00bargumentationacademiclanguage6thgrade-140107232719-phpapp01/95/what-is-an-argument-a-foundation-for-ela-in-the-common-core-era-8-638.jpg?cb=1389137651
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Dear walqalami...
That's why I told in my earlier threads that non of laham words take the meaning other than meat... He is intentionally misguiding people... And claim he has won we are defeated.. I wonder such claimers have any proof to say so.. That's pathetic approach...
Anyhow I will keep expose his fallacy and twisting taking into consideration the innocent believers who may bend without pondering sometimes or with limited knowledge .....Any one answer me why God called laham khinzeer (rijsz) and still ordered to eat under compulsion?... Undeniable it is the meat of swine...
Note carefully... In 10 places the word rijsz is occurring in entire quran.. If you read with meticulous effort you will find that rijsz is not any kind of uncleanliness coz of rotten meat. But this rijsz entirely different .this is not a word to be used when a meat is spoiled or any other edible thing is decayed but it is totally different... It's totally abomination / defilement / kind of evil which is inside hearts and naturally as such, etc... Cannot be called for example when a cat is dead and getting decayed.. O! No. Don't touch it.. It is rijsz.. No way... That's insane...
God called it rijsz... Coz God knew what is pork .its undeniably filthy meat that we don't perceive even it looks attractive and tasty ... But reality is different.. No need to explain what is pork it's nature... . Same as the filthy hearts never goes right ..
Isn't this a proof my dear members?
But for those who play around here to divert people nothing will be proof coz they are blind and misguided and who will guide them...
Pls check all rijsz verses dear believers I am sure it will help you if you use your wits. ..Pork is prohibited I claim with proof and without hesitation tell everyone it's prohibited.... I am well aware verse 587...
God guide us... -
That's why I told in my earlier threads that non of laham words take the meaning other than meat... He is intentionally misguiding people...
all maggoty and stinking meat, fruits etc are covered by 2173, 53, 6145, 16115... it is haram. These verses refer to "flesh" (of meat and fruits etc) and NOT MEAT ALONE. ELSE you will make halal all maggoty and stinking foods other than pork since there are no verses to prohibit maggoty and stinking meat (cow, goat, chicken, rabbit, camel, horse etc) and fruits etc; refer to verse 5101. Business people could use these rotten meats and sell it to customer for profit.
Why don't they research the (interpretation and translation of the) Quran? Don't they realize that if it(s interpretation and translation) was from someone other than Allah/TRUTH (falsehood), they would find many discrepancies in it. (482)
Noun
(21736) walaḥma and flesh إِنَّمَا حَرَّمَ عَلَيْكُمُ الْمَيْتَةَ وَالدَّمَ وَلَحْمَ الْخِنْزِيرِ وَمَا أُهِلَّ بِهِ لِغَيْرِ اللَّهِ
(225956) laḥman (with) flesh وَانْظُرْ إِلَى الْعِظَامِ كَيْفَ نُنْشِزُهَا ثُمَّ نَكْسُوهَا لَحْمًا
(535) walaḥmu and flesh حُرِّمَتْ عَلَيْكُمُ الْمَيْتَةُ وَالدَّمُ وَلَحْمُ الْخِنْزِيرِ وَمَا أُهِلَّ لِغَيْرِ اللَّهِ بِهِ
(614520) laḥma (the) flesh إِلَّا أَنْ يَكُونَ مَيْتَةً أَوْ دَمًا مَسْفُوحًا أَوْ لَحْمَ خِنْزِيرٍ فَإِنَّهُ رِجْسٌ
(16147) laḥman meat وَهُوَ الَّذِي سَخَّرَ الْبَحْرَ لِتَأْكُلُوا مِنْهُ لَحْمًا طَرِيًّا
(161156) walaḥma and the flesh إِنَّمَا حَرَّمَ عَلَيْكُمُ الْمَيْتَةَ وَالدَّمَ وَلَحْمَ الْخِنْزِيرِ وَمَا أُهِلَّ لِغَيْرِ اللَّهِ بِهِ
(22374) luḥūmuhā their meat لَنْ يَنَالَ اللَّهَ لُحُومُهَا وَلَا دِمَاؤُهَا وَلَٰكِنْ يَنَالُهُ التَّقْوَىٰ مِنْكُمْ
(231413) laḥman (with) flesh فَخَلَقْنَا الْمُضْغَةَ عِظَامًا فَكَسَوْنَا الْعِظَامَ لَحْمًا
(351215) laḥman meat وَمِنْ كُلٍّ تَأْكُلُونَ لَحْمًا طَرِيًّا وَتَسْتَخْرِجُونَ حِلْيَةً تَلْبَسُونَهَا
(491222) laḥma (the) flesh أَيُحِبُّ أَحَدُكُمْ أَنْ يَأْكُلَ لَحْمَ أَخِيهِ مَيْتًا فَكَرِهْتُمُوهُ
(52223) walaḥmin and meat وَأَمْدَدْنَاهُمْ بِفَاكِهَةٍ وَلَحْمٍ مِمَّا يَشْتَهُونَ
(56211) walaḥmi And (the) flesh وَلَحْمِ طَيْرٍ مِمَّا يَشْتَهُونَ(Word by Word) ...and the flesh (of)
Muhammad Asad ...and the flesh of
M. M. Pickthall ...flesh and
Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985) ...and the flesh of
Yusuf Ali (Orig. 193 ...and the flesh of
Shakir ...and flesh of
Wahiduddin Khan ...and the flesh of
Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar ...and flesh of
Safi Kaskas ...and the flesh of
Abdul Hye ...the flesh of
The Study Quran ...and the flesh of
Abdul Majid Daryabadi ...flesh
Ahmed Ali ...and the flesh of
Ali Ãœnal ...and the flesh of
Ali Quli Qara'i ...the flesh of
Hamid S. Aziz ...and the flesh of
Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali ...and the flesh of
Muhammad Sarwar ...the flesh of
Muhammad Taqi Usmani ...the flesh of
Shabbir Ahmed ...flesh
Syed Vickar Ahamed ...and the flesh of
Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) ...the flesh of
Dr. Munir Munshey ...flesh
Dr. Kamal Omar ...and the flesh of
Talal A. Itani (new translation) ....and the flesh of
Maududi ....and the flesh of
A.L. Bilal Muhammad et al (201 ...the flesh of
Mohammad Shafi ...flesh ofLANE LEXICON
http//i66.tinypic.com/j5b2v6.jpg
http//i64.tinypic.com/dpzuia.jpg
not necessarily meat alone, but also to date and walnut.
Even the Lane Lexicon said it does not apply to "MEAT ALONE"...
it clearly said "maggoty/stinking" ... "applied" to
(flesh) of a date
(flesh) of a walnutFLESH-meat
(FLESH (first subject matter) + MEAT / DATE / WALNET / FRUITS (second subject matter) ... flesh and meat not the same thing)
flesh
The flesh of a fruit or vegetable is the soft, inner part.
https//dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/flesh
inconsistently...
(2013 Edition) ...and the meat of pig
Meat ALONE...
Why do they not produce a clear argument concerning them? (Accordingly) Who could do greater wrong than someone who invents a lie against Allah/Sunnatullah/Law of Nature/EcoLogic? (1815)
https//scontent.fkul1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51402309_2278600089023236_143549893070290944_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul1-1.fna&oh=2dc7da343d86c41a493a185cc5776aab&oe=5CB5B036