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  4. Was there any other creation before humans and jinn and why are most made for...

Was there any other creation before humans and jinn and why are most made for...

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  • G Offline
    G Offline
    good_logic
    wrote on last edited by
    #49

    Oh and because I care about my dear brother Imran,even if you do not believe there is freedom of choice,( This will actually work especially for those who do not believe we have choices and make decisions), I advise you to make it your business to align yourself with GOD Alone in this life. This is the only business that succeeds in both this life and the hereafter.
    And if one does not believe in accountability in the hereafter, they will have nothing to loose.
    GOD bless you.
    Peace.

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    • J Offline
      J Offline
      Jafar
      wrote on last edited by
      #50

      Oh and because I care about my dear brother Imran,even if you do not believe there is freedom of choice,

      "Freedom of choice" doesn't mean that it's free from the one infinite source plan and design.

      When one know everything about something he/she/it will automatically control that thing.
      The reverse is also true, when you want to control something then you need to know everything about that thing.

      Thus, when one does NOT know everything about something, he/she/it can NOT control that thing.
      But if he/she/it does NOT know everything BUT wanted to control that thing, In anguish and frustration he spread fear, terror and threat in hope that the thing will do what he/she/it wants due to FEAR.

      Yet...
      Since the one infinite source knows everything about me, then surely the one infinite source is in full control over me.
      Since the one infinite source knows everything about you, then surely the one infinite source is in full control over you.
      Since the one infinite source knows everything about everything, then surely the one infinite source is in full control over everything.

      I advise you to make it your business to align yourself with GOD Alone in this life. This is the only business that succeeds in both this life and the hereafter.

      A very good advice, aligning with the one infinite source.
      The advice is also applicable to you though.. and others..

      A jewish dude recommend this approach
      "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come"
      "Let your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven"

      The Father's will shall always be done nonetheless, 100% guaranteed.
      No need of spreading terror, threat or be angry.

      It's only a matter on how each of you perceived it, as a blessing (acceptance) or as a suffering.

      By the way, that jewish dude above ends up (at least in his lifetime on this earth) being framed and tortured by the religious elite. But it seems he managed to disregard the 'pain' signal from his ego and perceive it as a blessing (acceptance).

      Peace

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      • I Offline
        I Offline
        imrankhawaja
        wrote on last edited by
        #51

        2-Be an opponent to Him.(This include the in between,/who doubt/ not having one firm decision

        Do u believe me, you, we PUNY creation can be opponent to the most powerful being?

        Anyway thanks for the care about me lol appreciate that.i have noticed a confused remarks in your statements. I can see your struggling brother but its ok u dnt need to add anything in convo. I can understand that.
        Thanks to you too for the convo. handshake

        Since the one infinite source knows everything about me, then surely the one infinite source is in full control over me.
        Since the one infinite source knows everything about you, then surely the one infinite source is in full control over you.
        Since the one infinite source knows everything about everything, then surely the one infinite source is in full control over everything.

        TRUE and logical,

        Everything included DESTINY of everyone.

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        • G Offline
          G Offline
          good_logic
          wrote on last edited by
          #52

          Peace jafar.
          Any reason why you say this to me brother? Quote
          A very good advice, aligning with the one infinite source.
          The advice is also applicable to you though.. and others..

          Do you think/What made you think that I do not apply to myself the advice I give to others? Or may be I singled brother Imran with an advice to lead him astray?

          Peace Imran

          I struggle daily to make sense of my shortcomings, but I have your interest and all my fellow humans at heart. I mean what I feel.and I try very hard to mean what I say.
          If it comes out wrong,gets you feeling negative or hurts you in any way ,please forgive my shortcomings.
          The same goes for brother jafar.
          I feel both of you doubt GOD and Qoran or you know both differently than I do .. Hence our disagreement sometimes.
          But I accept your entitlement and freedom to your views.
          GOD bless you both.
          Peace.

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          • G Offline
            G Offline
            good_logic
            wrote on last edited by
            #53

            Peace All.
            I summarize here and call this post
            Lessons from the past to be learned for the humans- Similarly Jinns have their lessons too-

            The people of Noah,Hud, Salih, Shuaib....etc are the lessons for us.

            This is news from the past communities that we narrate to you. Some are still standing, and some have vanished.

            We never wronged them; they wronged their own souls. Their gods, whom they invoked beside God, could not help them in the least when the judgment of your Lord came. In fact, they only ensured their doom.

            Such was the retribution enforced by your Lord when the communities transgressed. Indeed, His retribution is painful, devastating.

            This should be a lesson for those who fear the retribution of the Hereafter. That is a day when all the people will be summoned - a day to be witnessed.

            We have appointed a specific time for it to take place.

            The day it comes to pass, no soul will utter a single word, except in accordance with His will. Some will be miserable, and some will be happy.

            As for the miserable ones, they will be in Hell, ...

            As for the fortunate ones, they will be in Paradise...

            Do not have any doubt regarding what these people Yabudu; they Yabudu exactly as they found their parents Yabudu. We will requite them their due share fully, without reduction.

            We have given Moses the scripture, but it was disputed, and if it were not for a predetermined word decreed by your Lord, they would have been judged immediately. They are full of doubt about this (scripture too), suspicious.

            Your Lord will surely will recompense everyone for their works. He is fully Cognizant of everything they do.

            Therefore, continue on the path you have been enjoined to follow, together with those who repented with you, and do not transgress. He is Seer of everything you do.

            Do not lean towards those who have transgressed, lest you incur Hell, and find no allies to help you against God, then end up losers.

            You shall steadfastly persevere, for God never fails to recompense the righteous.

            If only some of those among the previous generations possessed enough intelligence to forbid evil! Only a few of them deserved to be saved by us. As for the transgressors, they were preoccupied with their material luxuries; they were guilty.

            Your Lord never annihilates any community unjustly, while its people are righteous.

            Had your Lord willed, all the people would have been one congregation (of believers). But they will always dispute (the truth).

            Only those blessed with mercy from your Lord (will not dispute the truth). This is why He created them.* The judgment of your Lord has already been issued "I will fill Hell with jinns and humans, all together.- They put themselves there by their decisions and choices!!!)

            We narrate to you enough history of the messengers to strengthen your heart. The truth has come to you herein, as well as enlightenments and reminders for the believers.

            Say to those who disbelieve,(opponents ) "Do whatever you can, and so will we.

            "Then wait; we too will wait."

            Indeed all we can do is wait.
            May the Lord bless you all.
            Peace.

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            • J Offline
              J Offline
              jkhan
              wrote on last edited by
              #54

              Peace All.
              I summarize here and call this post
              Lessons from the past to be learned for the humans- Similarly Jinns have their lessons too-

              The people of Noah,Hud, Salih, Shuaib....etc are the lessons for us.

              This is news from the past communities that we narrate to you. Some are still standing, and some have vanished.

              We never wronged them; they wronged their own souls. Their gods, whom they invoked beside God, could not help them in the least when the judgment of your Lord came. In fact, they only ensured their doom.

              Such was the retribution enforced by your Lord when the communities transgressed. Indeed, His retribution is painful, devastating.

              This should be a lesson for those who fear the retribution of the Hereafter. That is a day when all the people will be summoned - a day to be witnessed.

              We have appointed a specific time for it to take place.

              The day it comes to pass, no soul will utter a single word, except in accordance with His will. Some will be miserable, and some will be happy.

              As for the miserable ones, they will be in Hell, ...

              As for the fortunate ones, they will be in Paradise...

              Do not have any doubt regarding what these people Yabudu; they Yabudu exactly as they found their parents Yabudu. We will requite them their due share fully, without reduction.

              We have given Moses the scripture, but it was disputed, and if it were not for a predetermined word decreed by your Lord, they would have been judged immediately. They are full of doubt about this (scripture too), suspicious.

              Your Lord will surely will recompense everyone for their works. He is fully Cognizant of everything they do.

              Therefore, continue on the path you have been enjoined to follow, together with those who repented with you, and do not transgress. He is Seer of everything you do.

              Do not lean towards those who have transgressed, lest you incur Hell, and find no allies to help you against God, then end up losers.

              You shall steadfastly persevere, for God never fails to recompense the righteous.

              If only some of those among the previous generations possessed enough intelligence to forbid evil! Only a few of them deserved to be saved by us. As for the transgressors, they were preoccupied with their material luxuries; they were guilty.

              Your Lord never annihilates any community unjustly, while its people are righteous.

              Had your Lord willed, all the people would have been one congregation (of believers). But they will always dispute (the truth).

              Only those blessed with mercy from your Lord (will not dispute the truth). This is why He created them.* The judgment of your Lord has already been issued "I will fill Hell with jinns and humans, all together.- They put themselves there by their decisions and choices!!!)

              We narrate to you enough history of the messengers to strengthen your heart. The truth has come to you herein, as well as enlightenments and reminders for the believers.

              Say to those who disbelieve,(opponents ) "Do whatever you can, and so will we.

              "Then wait; we too will wait."

              Indeed all we can do is wait.
              May the Lord bless you all.
              Peace.

              Dear GL .

              Perfect selection of verses you brought... excellent work... Even if i was in a position of disbelieving in One God and after reading these verses in an unbiased and neutral manner, i would have agreed...
              Let them follow whatever they want in their God gifted freedom and knowledge... We are not to compel anyone.... and they are not to compel us either... But debate is debate.. What one would lose by being a very good person in this world while not disobeying his or her Creator... Does he or she lose anything by believing in One God? Does He order anything in His book that is against Human nature and harm to the society?

              I really appreciate for these selection of verses not coz it would convince those who do not believe but probably strengthen the faith of believers...

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              • I Offline
                I Offline
                imrankhawaja
                wrote on last edited by
                #55

                The one who dnt believe in flat earth is kafir and rejector, God will punish all those with fire who dnt beleive in flat earth model. If i would be a round earther i will neutrally look the verses of quran and bible and then believed on flat earth model..

                Because my BOOK/team/religion/brain/MODEL of earth is better than others.

                Long live my ego and my super natural abilities i m wisest in all wise. >D

                I m still not able to understand the difference between faith and knowing..
                I m still not able to understnad the view point of debaters...
                Because my mind is where all intelligence revolve around i have a special Type of flat mind. Unique to. Others.. hail

                I feel both of you doubt GOD and Qoran or you know both differently than I do .. Hence our disagreement sometimes.

                Thanks for you best wishes, coincidence is this i feel Same about you. But i m not judgemental that you deserved to get punished by fire or hell..

                I dnt doubt but i KNOW you reject the quran and God by removing 9 / 128-129.

                But you are right one person faith is different than another person. Thats exactly i was trying saying before.

                What goes around comes around

                TRUE rotfl

                Even brother jafar also predict it long before your and mine post..

                Pretty optimistic he was... I love that. Lol

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                • G Offline
                  G Offline
                  good_logic
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #56

                  Thank you jkhan.

                  I have not found any alternative explanation of "who is a human" , "why earth and universe exist" and "what should be the aim /objective of the human life"?
                  I found , so far, only Qoran gives me my answers. By the way Qoran is not my book or any human book like some call it. I found with solid proof that it is GOD s book..

                  When I ask for an alternative explanation that satisfies both my body and spirit, I am not given any by anyone, only irrelevant arguments or hostile banter . By contrast, I find GOD s argument in Qoran strong , truthful and an accurate guide to how I should lead this life and succeed.
                  In fact , no one can explain why we die if we take GOD out of the equation?
                  I see ,unfortunately, the majority carrying on with the "status quo" of men s systems even though they failed many times and let people down.
                  But to each to their way and system.
                  GOD bless you.
                  Peace.

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                  • G Offline
                    G Offline
                    good_logic
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #57

                    Peace Imran.
                    You say, quote

                    I dnt doubt but i KNOW you reject the quran and God by removing 9 / 128-129.

                    You found the original Qoran and it contains 128 and 129 verses ? Please show me since you seem sure?
                    Otherwise ,one of us is wrong as it stands
                    It would be off topic to discuss here, but we already discussed anyway.
                    GOD bless you.
                    Peace.

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                    • I Offline
                      I Offline
                      imrankhawaja
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #58

                      Peace Imran.
                      You say, quote

                      I dnt doubt but i KNOW you reject the quran and God by removing 9 / 128-129.

                      You found the original Qoran and it contains 128 and 129 verses ? Please show me since you seem sure?
                      Otherwise ,one of us is wrong as it stands
                      It would be off topic to discuss here, but we already discussed anyway.

                      Superb rotfl

                      I already clear as crystal that i dont KNOW hence my believe got no value..

                      But since i KNOW 99.9999999 % people believe that current quran is original and those verses were part of that original quran but you and 0.000000001 % reject it hence your position is quite doubty and dodgy.. Infront of those 99.9999999% believers.

                      Those believers have evidence that oldest mauscript till Date contain those verses hence burden of proof is also on you what u failed to realise continously ALAS! So sad lol.

                      Its not offtopic tbh its exactly on topic one person's faith is different than other what value does it have?

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                      • G Offline
                        G Offline
                        good_logic
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #59

                        Peace Imran.
                        You say quote
                        But since i KNOW 99.9999999 % people believe that current quran is original and those verses were part of that original quran but you and 0.000000001 % reject it hence your position is quite doubty and dodgy.. Infront of those 99.9999999% believers.
                        Those believers have evidence that oldest mauscript till Date contain those verses hence burden of proof is also on you what u failed to realise continously ALAS! So sad lol.

                        What evidence? I have seen no evidence from them or you!!!
                        And since when the majority is right? That logic has already been debunked. And if you think the 99.9999..% are right ,their religion must also be right. Then why don t you join it?
                        Somehow you know this is baseless ,but you continue with the wrong argument.

                        Really when you think about it,only when you try hard to find your own answers and disregard the 99.999...%, will you be satisfied or more frustrated..
                        At the end of the day,it is like each are on their own journey,not depending on the 99.999...%
                        Try again brother when you bring the original copy of the prophet with proper evidence.

                        GOD bless you.
                        Peace.

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                        • I Offline
                          I Offline
                          imrankhawaja
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #60

                          Lem me magnify my words perhaps it help

                          I said OLDEST till date they have in their evidence...

                          Do u have any oldest copy in which those verses missing =? BiG no.

                          So your position is at doubt and hence burden of proof is on you...

                          About my position, i dont know hence i m not the one who claimed anything..and not interested in knowing too

                          About your position, you dnt know and you are sure u dnt know but still you believe and are very sure those verses are not the part of quran..

                          Interestingly u know u dnt have the copy of prophet but you believe in the copy of khalifa missing verses did you see the case now lol... You are the one in doubt about the words of God..

                          What value does your belief have?

                          Or other way round is majority lol where you will go now? police

                          Although using word as majority is not appropriate i didnt use that word.
                          majority qualifiy on 1/100 %, coders are not even 1 %, their ratio is like 0.0000001 %. What majority lmao? Although if that satisfy you u can consider them as very very very very very low minority.

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                          • G Offline
                            G Offline
                            good_logic
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #61

                            Peace Imran.

                            If you say this to me, quote
                            About your position, you dnt know and you are sure u dnt know but still you believe and are very sure those verses are not the part of quran..

                            Then you do not know interlock or mathematics. I can confidently say that the words of my Lords have been locked. It is not about oldest Mushaf or the newest oneA anyone can add or take away words , GOD does not care one iota. It is about GOD s original composition of His book. In fact everything runs as planned. In other words GOD knew the past and the future and locked His book.

                            Do you know why there was a civil war after the prophet s death? Have you investigated the reasons? Oldest copy of the victors is no proof.
                            Otherwise .if the book stayed intact before and after the prophet ,why bother about the preservation? Think about it?
                            Preservation means, folks can write what they want, add or take away what they want, It will be obvious and will easily be found out by the Mathematical composition!!!
                            Their words will not fit in with GOD s words, as simple as that.

                            On another side, why are you persisting on the position of others if you yourself do not know or have any evidence?, quote

                            About my position, i dont know hence i m not the one who claimed anything..and not interested in knowing too.

                            I suggest you argue about things that you care about, if you wish.
                            GOD bless you.
                            Peace.

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                            • N Offline
                              N Offline
                              Noon_waalqalami
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #62

                              Then you do not know interlock or mathematics.

                              peace, since you know then teach him "interlock" show which verse is this, (11) occurrences?

                              وىل woe ىومىذ day thereof للمكذبىن to those deniers

                              61030 1064010700 3030402070021050 = 19 x ...!
                              61030 1064010700 3030402070021050 = 7 x ...!

                              1. gv total - 1694 = 7 x 242
                              2. sequence #, word size - 1 3 2 5 3 8 = 7 x 18934
                              3. word size + gv, sequence # - 49 1 771 2 890 3 = 7 x ...!
                              4. cumulative gv, sequence # - 46 1 812 2 1694 3 = 7 x ...!
                              5. gv sequence - 61030 1064010700 3030402070021050 = 7 x ...!
                              6. gv-seq, gv-add - 61030 1064010700 3030402070021050 1694 = 7 x ...!
                              7. gv-add, gv-seq - 1694 61030 1064010700 3030402070021050 = 7 x ...!
                              8. sequence #, word size, word gv - 1 3 46 2 5 766 3 8 882 = 7 x 7 x 7 x ...!
                              9. sequence #, word gv, cumulative # letters - 1 46 3 2 766 8 3 882 16 = 7 x ...!
                              10. sequence #, word gv series - 1 61030 2 1064010700 3 3030402070021050 = 7 x ...!
                              11. sequence #, local letter #, word size - 1 1 2 3 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 8 = 7 x ...!
                              12. sequence #, word gv, local letter # - 1 46 1 2 3 2 766 1 2 3 4 5 3 882 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 = 7 x ...!
                              13. sequence #, cumulative gv, letter # - 1 46 123 2 812 45678 3 1694 910111213141516 = 7 x ...!
                              14. sequence #, local letter #, cumulative # letters - 1 1 2 3 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 8 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 16 = 7 x ...!
                              15. sequence #, word size, word gv series - 1 3 61030 2 5 1064010700 3 8 3030402070021050 = 7 x ...!
                              16. sequence #, cumulative gv, local letter # - 1 46 1 2 3 2 812 1 2 3 4 5 3 1694 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 = 7 x 7 x ...!
                              17. individual gv, letter #, sequence # - 6 1 10 2 30 3 1 10 4 6 5 40 6 10 7 700 8 2 30 9 30 10 40 11 20 12 700 13 2 14 10 15 50 16 3 = 7 x ...!
                              18. individual gv, letter #, word gv - 6 1 10 2 30 3 46 10 4 6 5 40 6 10 7 700 8 766 30 9 30 10 40 11 20 12 700 13 2 14 10 15 50 16 882 = 7 x ...!
                              19. word gv, Individual gv, letter # - 46 6 1 10 2 30 3 766 10 4 6 5 40 6 10 7 700 8 882 30 9 30 10 40 11 20 12 700 13 2 14 10 15 50 16 = 7 x ...!

                              Likewise, show exact same consistent pattern “interlock” whatever applied for each/every verse.

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                              • G Offline
                                G Offline
                                good_logic
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #63

                                Peace Noon.
                                Already discussed interlock with you many times. Your imitation is futile. Your old mushafs differ why?

                                You know very well that all the Mus-hafs including the oldest we have today are not written the same way, are they?

                                The answer is no. All the claims by many famous scholars are false when they claim, that if you compare all Qurans around the world, you can never find any difference. They are different ..
                                God, however gave us the means to verify which book follows the rules and which does not. If God promised to protect the Quran and preserve it while the Qurans around the world are so different, then there has to be a way, a system, a measure, a verifiable method to check that protection.
                                After 1974 we know that God gave us that system and with it we can conclude easily which book is protected by God and which book is not.
                                Or do you say the prophet received your oldest copy? Evidence please? Or he received all the different copies?
                                GOD bless you.
                                Peace.

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                                • J Offline
                                  J Offline
                                  jkhan
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #64

                                  Thank you jkhan.

                                  I have not found any alternative explanation of "who is a human" , "why earth and universe exist" and "what should be the aim /objective of the human life"?
                                  I found , so far, only Qoran gives me my answers. By the way Qoran is not my book or any human book like some call it. I found with solid proof that it is GOD s book..

                                  When I ask for an alternative explanation that satisfies both my body and spirit, I am not given any by anyone, only irrelevant arguments or hostile banter . By contrast, I find GOD s argument in Qoran strong , truthful and an accurate guide to how I should lead this life and succeed.
                                  In fact , no one can explain why we die if we take GOD out of the equation?
                                  I see ,unfortunately, the majority carrying on with the "status quo" of men s systems even though they failed many times and let people down.
                                  But to each to their way and system.
                                  GOD bless you.
                                  Peace.

                                  Let’s be more amicable…. Coz everyone has right to take what they feel right, but after exploration and verification…
                                  Okay.. there are many faiths among the human beings when it comes to religions.. They all have reasons to take what they take…
                                  God believers claim that this world or universe or whatever is created and not anything else
                                  Others claim that Nothing was created and there is No such Supernatural power, but all naturalism.. etc etc..
                                  Okay let me not talk about stationary Earth for the sake of different topic…. I know there are many believers they strongly believe what NASA claims to date… let it be… But question to ask from everyone (all humans regardless of faith) to themselves is “why everything (universe for that matter scientifically) came into existence? I won’t ask HOW but WHY? Or Why is this massive universe so accurately tailor-made and also for the appearance of life on Earth, as well very intelligent Human also on it? Why such humans have beginning and ending? Why it is not in anyone’s control? Are these meaningful to anyone? Why we shed tears naturally with feeling in this auto generated Universe while living in an absolutely tiny insignificant mote named Earth? For what purpose we are having a life?
                                  Okay fine deny God .. be satisfied with denial, but why everything originated as modern science claims 13.8 billions of years ago.. And now we see totally a different Earth and living creatures on it...Why it took billions of years to originate creatures on earth after its formation… Why we don’t see any evolution process now? At least a simple process.. What is soul then? For example human body has a Soul ( a living invisible power which operates a physical body with Energy).. where it comes from and enters to the physic of a baby even before its birth? And leaves when it dies? Is dead body and living person same? What separates both is in fact a Soul.. isn’t the soul a sign for us?

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                                  • I Offline
                                    I Offline
                                    imrankhawaja
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #65

                                    Then you do not know interlock or mathematics.

                                    TRUE teach me please.. Lol

                                    Its appears u yourself dnt know about it and always dodge the questions what NOON brother is asking from you since ages.. Just take your time read his post and understand what he asked its about interlocking i guess lol. Its another matter if its difficult for you to grasp what hes is asking he can help the people who are weak in math..

                                    May b u need more classes of math lmao just kidding..

                                    You believed you are confident.. ( mind 1)
                                    Others believed you are over-confident (mind 2).

                                    Thats what i was telling you but u never learn lol.

                                    Do you know why there was a civil war after the prophet s death? Have you investigated the reasons?

                                    Next questions

                                    Why there were 1st and 2nd civil wars? ( make it a plural)
                                    Why we need to believe on history accounts of those wars?
                                    Why one account is different than others?

                                    I dnt know because i was not there but you already know because you are a time travelor my bad i forget that lmao rotfl

                                    A cross question from you...

                                    Have you investigate the REPORTS of those investigation reports? Their realibility? Their authenicity? Perhaps code 19 also works on Hadith accounts to check which hadith is Authentic lmao yay

                                    Oldest copy of the victors is no proof.

                                    Its not a proof Just for you who is in 0.00000001 % minority. So case dismissed, Not from me but from Majority. Lol teach them math but first teach yourself if u dnt wana look funny group

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                                      G Offline
                                      good_logic
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #66

                                      Peace Imran.
                                      You say, quote
                                      TRUE teach me please.. Lol

                                      You come across as intelligent and quite able to teach yourself.

                                      Here is what I researched and verified with Qoran( You may have seen it before)
                                      https//submission.org/verify_preserving_and_protecting_Quran.html

                                      Only be honest with yourself and sincere in checking as some people do not bother and keep their bias and ridicule and do not check facts. . Of course you need to check the other side.and compare, keeping Qoran as criteria.

                                      At the end of the day, we are not responsible for one another. GOD knows our intention and that is enough for me.

                                      You and me are where we are, this generation. We cannot go back in time nor can we ignore falsehood. Therefore we check according to our faculties and what GOD gave to us in intelligence and knowledge.

                                      Our conclusion needs to be drawn from our own search and hard work, as long as it is done with sincerity and without bias,

                                      I wish you the best in your journey brother.
                                      GOD bless you.
                                      Peace.

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                                        Noon_waalqalami
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #67

                                        You come across as intelligent and quite able to teach yourself.

                                        Here is what I researched and verified with Qoran( You may have seen it before)
                                        https//submission.org/verify_preserving_and_protecting_Quran.html

                                        peace, where in the article is "interlock" or consistent pattern?
                                        they call “the original” Samarkand late 8th / early 9th century?
                                        why not adjust "all words" accordingly vs one to get a multiple?

                                        769 which was written with Sad, corrected to written with Seen as in the Tashkent Quran.

                                        بَسْطَةً with "seen" 2147 … وزاده and enhance him (singular) بسطه
                                        بَصْۜطَةًۖ with "saad" 769 … وزادكم and enhance you (plural) فى in الخلق the creation بصطه

                                        with “saad” 10th line from top
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/7/vers/69?handschrift=13

                                        with “saad” 10th line from bottom
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/7/vers/69?handschrift=56

                                        The ‘original’ of 203 is without nun but the modern version includes it

                                        notice initials 201 طه ta ha (together with next verse in old manuscripts)
                                        likewise read in context it cannot be لم lam/not OR لم lima/for what/why
                                        University of Birmingham Islamic Arabic 1572 dated 568-645 CE (95.4%)
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/3/handschrift/281

                                        203 لمن liman/to whom ىخشى feared
                                        7926 لمن liman/to whom ىخشى feared

                                        The ‘original’ of 3620 is missing the Yaa and Nun which the modern version has.
                                        The ‘original’ of 3621 is missing a Meem which the modern version has

                                        Look closely that part of the text is torn in Samarkand manuscript
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/36/vers/20?handschrift=141

                                        word correctly spelled with yn المرسلىن (plural)
                                        word cannot be missing yn i.e. المرسل (singular)
                                        7th line from top read in context 3614 - 3621
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/36/vers/20?handschrift=107

                                        In the ‘original’ the letter form for fa or qaf is present in 1972 whereas the letter nun occurs in the modern versions

                                        no such word exists; see 10th line from bottom
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/19/vers/72?handschrift=163
                                        1972 ونذر and we leave الظلمىن the wrongdoers فىها therein جثىا crouching

                                        The ‘original’ of 20108 is without seen which is in the modern version.

                                        no such word without “seen” exists
                                        20108 … فلا so not تسمع thou hear الا except همسا hamsan/whisper of
                                        6th line from bottom Arabe 328 (c) dated 568-645 CE (95.4%)
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/108?handschrift=158

                                        The ‘original’ of 2079 has nun whereas the modern version has yaa

                                        1st line at bottom; read in context cannot be with N as in 680 هدن hadani/guide me
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/79/handschrift/107

                                        In the ‘original’ , 3826 is without yaa whereas the modern version has one

                                        7th line from bottom last word -- read in context "ya" required
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/38/vers/26?handschrift=163
                                        3826 ولا and not تتبع thou follow الهوى the desire فىضلك fayudillaka/so “it/ya” misguide you

                                        There is an extra yaa in 215 in the modern 1924 Egyptian Arabic EDITION

                                        215 ىستهزى mocked (spelled with ya)
                                        see same manuscript 4th line from top 214 مستهزىون who mocking (with ya)
                                        5th line from bottom -- also see (14) occurrences ىستهزىون mocking (with ya)
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/15?handschrift=428

                                        The ‘original’ of 1883 has the letter meem that was replaced by the letters nun and yaa in the modern version.

                                        7th line from top last word 1894 القرنىن (same manuscript spelled correctly) https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/18/vers/94/handschrift/141

                                        3rd line from bottom
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/18/vers/83?handschrift=107

                                        The pronoun huwa is present in the Tashkent-Samarqand ‘original’ of 2284, whereas the modern Arabic version has the word Allah!!

                                        2284 والله
                                        10th line from top -- Cairo, National Library qāf 47 dated 606-652 CE (95.4%)
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/284?handschrift=73

                                        In the modern version of 257 a word "Alykum" appears which is not in the ‘original’

                                        257 وظللنا and shades we of علىكم upon you الغمام the clouds …
                                        3rd line from top https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/57?handschrift=163

                                        In the ‘original’ an alif in 599 was replaced in the the modern Arabic version with yaa.

                                        read in context cannot be as in 284 علا exalt فى in الارض the land
                                        8th line from the bottom at middle
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/5/vers/99?handschrift=163
                                        599 ما not على upon الرسول the messenger الا except البلغ the conveyance
                                        2454, 2918 وما and not على upon الرسول the messenger الا except البلغ the conveyance

                                        In the ‘original’ of 611, the letter lam precedes the mim whereas in the modern version a letter tha is in its place.

                                        read in context it cannot be the word لم lam/not … 11th line from top at middle
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/6/vers/11?handschrift=204
                                        611 قل say سىروا travel ye of فى in الارض the land ثم thumma/furthermore انظروا observes ye of

                                        In the ‘original’ of 727 there are the letters meem and nun, which are not in the modern Arabic version.

                                        3rd line from bottom no من min/of as in 720 عنهما about them dual من min/of سوتهما shame theirs dual
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/7/vers/27/handschrift/56
                                        727 لىرىهما to show them dual سوتهما shame theirs dual
                                        722 لهما for them dual سوتهما shame theirs dual
                                        20121 لهما for them dual سوتهما shame theirs dual

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                                          good_logic
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #68

                                          Peace Noon.
                                          Of course all these mistakes that you keep referring back to "original" . What original?
                                          The only original that can verify your case properly is the prophet s copy. Have you got it?
                                          Otherwise you are dealing with copies that have mistakes , all of them, including what you keep calling "original".
                                          GOD bless you.
                                          Peace

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