MANIFESTO for Islamic Reform
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Noah please repeat the question. I must have missed it and I don't want to roll up and start reading previous posts.
Thanks
peace
the question for lote tree is Lote tree...why are there only 2 options in your worldview?
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LoteTree
All the Saddam allegations which are more lies than truth you keep repeating them.Lies? So people of Falubja inhaled nerve gas accidently did they?
There is nothing wrong reading PRAVDA news.
You had no choice if you lived in the Soviet Union. But wake up chap Soviet Union is no more.
You want me to change the democracy? You must be 13 year old kid who think that he can change the system. You live in imaginary world and see the things from popular point of view.
A 13 year old? Blimey, hum that was a while ago...lets see. Remember that french teacher at school. Lovely blue eyes, long slender features, full lips...and very nice... erm..oops sorry. You brought back memories chap! -)
We can all do our bit to change the way democracy serves us as a society.
Me I analyze everything to come to an conclusion.
Reading PRAVDA and reaching conclusions is not doing much!
MQuran is a wise person and I am following him by quiting this endless senseless discussion.
Yes, you like following others don't you? The sheep baabaa-ing to its master. Be your own person. Be an individual.
And you have not offered anything for discussion only parrotted "democracy is bad, democracy is bad".
Regards,
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Kgb, forget it. Lote tree is not interrested in any fruitfull debate. Most of us have been lured into this clap trap, i hope my question being repeated 3 times and still unanswered is proof enough of that.
Lote tree cannot think outside the box. That is why the question pose such a threat to him. It has to be either or, it has to be them or us. it has to be black or white. it has to etc.. neuances just doesnt excists in his world.
Peace
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Hello Noah,
Lote tree, is there a reason that youre not answering my question?
Lote tree, if you dont want to speak to me i fully understand so, that would be my own fault. Just let me know so, Jazak Allah khein.
If thats not the problem. then please answer my question.
Gosh! I am in such demand! -)
the question for lote tree is Lote tree...why are there only 2 options in your worldview?
2 options in my world view? Really?
I am a poet chap I am used to exploring all views.
That is what all poets do. It is in their nature to look at all views.But I asked you before - what you have in the place of democracy?
and you said without hesitation THEOCRACY!
Ayman and myself have shown you the absurdity of THEOCRACY and I have shown you the vileness of DICTATORSHIPS. So I have explored other world views!DEMOCRACY is government by the People for the People. And it is such a Noble Idea. DICTATORSHIPS FORCES us into becoming unwilling SUBJECTS, SERVANTS and SLAVES. DICTATORSHIPS undermines our very human dignity!
But democracy is not perfect and is indeed flawed but we can work to make it better...
You are young Noah, you are learning. Perhaps one day you will realise how important it is to live with dignity and not be forced to bow down to a DICTATOR and be forced to massage his EGO, only because he wants you to.
Lote tree cannot think outside the box.
I could say Noah you cannot think outside of the Scripture.
That is why the question pose such a threat to him.
Your question is no threat. I thought I answered your questions in the "ABSURDITY OF THEOCRACY?" thread. And Also I did not want to upset you again. You have been ill and all that. I don't want to go into a heated debate with you again.
Thanks.
Regards,
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LoteTree you are an excellent example of stupidity and a complete idiot. Yes it is better not to talk to people like you in future who do not have intelligence to understand a single word of all my previous posts.
I have read your nonesensical posts! They boil down to this Democracy is bad, democracy sucks! This is not an argument! But rant of the unintelligent. And then you say this
All the Saddam allegations which are more lies than truth you keep repeating them.
Are you serious!!!??? He gassed the people of falubja!!! Only persons of utter stupidity will say the words you have written above.
I am sick and tired of people like you who support VILE DICTATORS around the world, who rather lick the boots of Tyrants than stand up for themselves and reclaim their human dignity!
Regards,
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Salaam Lote-Tree,
You saidI am sick and tired of people like you who support VILE DICTATORS around the world, who rather lick the boots of Tyrants than stand up for themselves and reclaim their human dignity!
YES me too, I can't believe people who bow down for dictators.
We must work for freedom of speech so people dare to say something instead of being kneedogs to dictators like Saddam, Bush,Blair,Sharon etc.
When are people going to fear God more than they fear eachother!?
Peace
Sis Majidah -
Hello Noah,
Lote tree, is there a reason that youre not answering my question?
Lote tree, if you dont want to speak to me i fully understand so, that would be my own fault. Just let me know so, Jazak Allah khein.
If thats not the problem. then please answer my question.
Gosh! I am in such demand! -)
the question for lote tree is Lote tree...why are there only 2 options in your worldview?
2 options in my world view? Really?
I am a poet chap I am used to exploring all views.
That is what all poets do. It is in their nature to look at all views.But I asked you before - what you have in the place of democracy?
and you said without hesitation THEOCRACY!
Ayman and myself have shown you the absurdity of THEOCRACY and I have shown you the vileness of DICTATORSHIPS. So I have explored other world views!DEMOCRACY is government by the People for the People. And it is such a Noble Idea. DICTATORSHIPS FORCES us into becoming unwilling SUBJECTS, SERVANTS and SLAVES. DICTATORSHIPS undermines our very human dignity!
But democracy is not perfect and is indeed flawed but we can work to make it better...
You are young Noah, you are learning. Perhaps one day you will realise how important it is to live with dignity and not be forced to bow down to a DICTATOR and be forced to massage his EGO, only because he wants you to.
Lote tree cannot think outside the box.
I could say Noah you cannot think outside of the Scripture.
That is why the question pose such a threat to him.
Your question is no threat. I thought I answered your questions in the "ABSURDITY OF THEOCRACY?" thread. And Also I did not want to upset you again. You have been ill and all that. I don't want to go into a heated debate with you again.
Thanks.
Regards,
Peace
Only lote tree. you never asked me for my view on a theorcracy. The kind im talking about, had you bothered to ask before you went out on a tangent about dicators, is a lot closer to anarchism than dictatorship.
I know about dignity Lote tree, and im not prepared to crawl on my knees for any judge or legal referee put in charge of the court (a place you play tennis and basketball), using laws on me mostly payed for by special interrest groups. Im not bad off in life. far from it Lote Tree. In fact, i should be praising democracy, singing its hymn like you do. Only...i saw it from the top, and i want NO part of it what so ever.
Still, your views are your views, but even though you are my older brother, you have a sad tendency to force things down peoples throats that they dont mean at all. It pisses people off, and im starting to think that you love to do so. Its rude.
So, my older brother...grow up
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I know about dignity Lote tree, and im not prepared to crawl on my knees for any judge or legal referee put in charge of the court (a place you play tennis and basketball), using laws on me mostly payed for by special interrest groups.
If you think that is the case then in a DEMOCRACY you can work to change it. In a DICTATORSHIP you can't - can you not see this Noah?
Is this so hard to grasp?Don't be naieve Noah. Power at the hands of a single person in a DICTATORSHIP is a dangerous thing. Power is easily abused because Power is very corrupting. Power therefore needs to be moderated and kept in check. Power needs to be controlled. Democracy allows you to control this Power and moderate its use more effectively. But this moderation and control is not perfect and never can be perfect. We had 18 years of Iron Lady Margaret Thatcher to realise that! And Democracy itself can be perveted into a DICTATORSHIP! but for all its faults, democracy is the best of the worst types of government that serves humanity best when the Power is properly regulated and controlled.
Im not bad off in life. far from it Lote Tree. In fact, i should be praising democracy, singing its hymn like you do. Only...i saw it from the top, and i want NO part of it what so ever.
Not taking part is an adolesencet abdication of responsibility. As adolescent we want the world the way we want it to be. That is why we have this urge for someone to take charge of this world and set it to rights. That is why as adolescent we desire dictatorship. But in reality World is more complex than we can possibly conceive at the kinder garden. Sooner or later you have to wake up to this complexity....
Still, your views are your views, but even though you are my older brother, you have a sad tendency to force things down peoples throats that they dont mean at all. It pisses people off, and im starting to think that you love to do so. Its rude.
No, Noah, it pisses people off because they feel that their world view is challenged. Just like you can easily piss off a sunni muslim by showing how utter fraud are their books of hadiths.
So, my older brother...grow up )
I grew up long time ago Noah. At the age of 6, you were probably playing marbles in your Dad's back yard. At the age of six I was grappling with concept of "God"
Regards,
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Peace
Still, your views are your views, but even though you are my older brother, you have a sad tendency to force things down peoples throats that they dont mean at all. It pisses people off, and im starting to think that you love to do so. Its rude.
No, Noah, it pisses people off because they feel that their world view is challenged. Just like you can easily piss off a sunni muslim by showing how utter fraud are their books of hadiths.
No. you put words in people mouths and that pisses them off.
look here
Don't be naieve Noah. Power at the hands of a single person in a DICTATORSHIP is a dangerous thing......
where am i talking about dictators? i will tell you. i aint!
Your view on theocracy is heavily lacking neuances. thus
At the age of six I was grappling with concept of "God" ..
you shouldnt have stopped back then.
If you think that is the case then in a DEMOCRACY you can work to change it. In a DICTATORSHIP you can't - can you not see this Noah?
Is this so hard to grasp?you know what, on paper Communism look real good too. In theory Communism have many merits. Its just...it didnt work, because like democracy it is not made by the people, thats just what were told. I cannot force you to see things for what they, thats your own problem )
peace
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Lote tree
To someone who grew up in hell purgatory is an improvement. To someone who grew up in purgatory, its just not good enough!
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SaLaM mquran
You never got around on telling me how a leader will be chosen. Looollll From your post, you said that a Messenger / leader will have to have certain skills before you beleive that he/she can be a messenger/leader. So if a person came to you demonstrating all those skills, will you take him / her to be your leader/ messenger of God?
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Noah
Communism failed because the one party rule become corrupted as the sytem did not put strong enough check and controls on their leadership. Communism if implemented with honesty is better system than Capitalism which called "Democracy" in USA.
Peace. no its not. its equally rotten and flawed to begin with. They are not opposites, they are opposames. Its "elite" rule. Power, true influence and access to the lions part of the resources for a very few. I am aware that the writ that Marx copyed and put his name on (or was paid for, i dont know) contains many nice thoughts. but thats how these false ideologies are sold on to us. Both are 99% sweet cookie and 1% arsenik. Problem is that 1% arsenik is enough to kill all.
This is not "gospel truth" but take a look. http//reactor-core.org/none-dare.html
The only type of government i have seen that wasnt rotten to the core was actually the republic of Americas before it became the Brittish owned coorporation called (in capital letters) UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. A branch division of UNITED STATES COMPANY ANNO 1862.
But even with a good foundation look what happened. -
No. you put words in people mouths and that pisses them off.
look here
Don't be naieve Noah. Power at the hands of a single person in a DICTATORSHIP is a dangerous thing......
where am i talking about dictators? i will tell you. i aint!
Really Noah? This whole thread has been about democracy and autocratic rule!
Having failed with your argument with THEOCRACY which is also DICTATORSHIP, you now throw in ANARCHISM!
So my words "Power at the hands of a single person is a dangerous thing..." is about AUTOCRATIC RULE and DEMOCRACY. This keeping in line with discussion of the thread.
Your view on theocracy is heavily lacking neuances. thus
Hey Ayman demolished your arguments on THEOCRACY. You didn't need my views at all!
At the age of six I was grappling with concept of "God" ..
you shouldnt have stopped back then.
I haven't that is why I can easily challenge your world view.
If you think that is the case then in a DEMOCRACY you can work to change it. In a DICTATORSHIP you can't - can you not see this Noah?
Is this so hard to grasp?you know what, on paper Communism look real good too. In theory Communism have many merits. Its just...it didnt work, because like democracy it is not made by the people, thats just what were told.
No communism even on paper appealed to Idealist. But they could not see that Cummunism was dictatorship.
I cannot force you to see things for what they, thats your own problem
That is what is DEMOCRACY is about.
(And I have no problem at all. I think you do -)
But I will let you solve your problem since I am not here to solve your problem but rather challenge your world view so that you can say something brilliant that will get everyone thinking again...but so far you have not said anything exciting! (yet)Regards,
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Really Noah? This whole thread has been about democracy and autocratic rule!
and this apply to me how?
Having failed with your argument with THEOCRACY which is also DICTATORSHIP, you now throw in ANARCHISM!
No you never bothered to ask before you went out on a key about dicators. youre theone linking it together like that, not me. Dont put words in my mouth.
So my words "Power at the hands of a single person is a dangerous thing..." is about AUTOCRATIC RULE and DEMOCRACY. This keeping in line with discussion of the thread.
Power in hands of a single man or a single group of men are equally dangerous. They are two distinct beasts, so the danger of them differs.
Hey Ayman demolished your arguments on THEOCRACY. You didn't need my views at all!
Wjere did ayman do so did you think? All i saw was Ayman giving his PERSONAL oppinion, and me mine. So you like his better? thats ok )
I haven't that is why I can easily challenge your world view.
Yo havnt heard my worldview lote tree. you have forced one down my throat several times, in all debates i have had with you. PLease do tell me. what IS my world view that you so easily challenge.
No communism even on paper appealed to Idealist. But they could not see that Cummunism was dictatorship.
That is simply not true. Do your homework lote tree. it turned into a dictatorship, and i will argue it was always the idea of it, but not on paper.. Much like elite rule are now the democractic version of same. Atleast a dictator is in your face with his power. you know your enemy in a dictatorship. rather than in a democracy where the dictators are shady, hidden businness CEO's and special interrest groups, making deals that affect everybody OUTSIDE the democracy. You are intelligent, im sure this concept is not too hard to grasp.
I cannot force you to see things for what they, thats your own problem )
That is what is DEMOCRACY is about.
(And I have no problem at all. I think you do -)
But I will let you solve your problem since I am not here to solve your problem but rather challenge your world view so that you can say something brilliant that will get everyone thinking again...but so far you have not said anything exciting! (yet)What is it about? the removal of resources from the many into the hands of the few, badly dressed up as mob rule. And please enlighten me, what world view is it that you belive to have challenged? If you are so sure of what my world view is Lote tree, put weight behind it for once, and tell me what my world view is!
Its not like you excactly are shining in this debat. Putting words into peoples mouth impress noone.
Regards