MANIFESTO for Islamic Reform
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I received following email from Howard Dean's Democracy For America
The Bible tells us "thou shall not kill." And we consider it a key value to live by. It's a shame that Rev. Pat Robertson, self-appointed leader of America's so-called Christian right, does not.
Robertson's fatwah, calling for the assassination of the president of Venezuela -- in the name of keeping access to a "huge pool of oil," among other excuses -- exposed the warped values of many religious radicals with the ear of the president of the United States.
From efforts to squelch the teaching of sound science in our schools, to the "Justice Sunday" rallies trying to impose religion on the courts, to the quixotic jihad against SpongeBob SquarePants, fundamentalist power grabs make the news and have a huge impact.
But they don't have the teachings of any religion we know of -- and they don't have us. That's why we're sending Robertson a message "Thou shall not kill." Join your voice with ours, and we'll print your name in Robertson's local daily newspaper
http//www.democracyforamerica.com/robertson
Even Donald Rumsfeld -- a man we hardly ever agree with -- had the sense to play down the statement. "Certainly it's against the law," he told the press. "Our department doesn't do that type of thing."
But this calls for more than an offhand comment, because the allegiance that Republicans owe to Robertson and his Christian Coalition allies lets them influence the Bush agenda. Bush and company need to condemn Robertson's outrageous statement.
Rather than wait on the White House though, we'll set an example we'll reject Robertson ourselves. Join Americans across the land in telling Robertson it's time he learned to love his neighbor as himself
http//www.democracyforamerica.com/robertson
Your feedback -- and your name -- will go into an ad in the Virginian-Pilot, the Norfolk area's leading newspaper. We'll put you on record with thousands of Americans rightly -- and righteously -- angry that Robertson keeps twisting our values to serve his petty political agenda.
"I don't want to listen to the fundamentalist preachers anymore," Howard Dean once told us. We don't have to.
Thank you,
Jim Dean
Chair, Democracy for America -
"LoteTree" No, I think you are not intelligent. If you are intelligent then you would not easily bow down to a dictator and be forced to lick his backside only because he wants you to.
Attention Moderators
Is LoteTree allowed to suggest me kissing dictators ass? I can be more be more harsh if this is permissible.
No such thing meant personally. I wanted to imply that no intelligent human being will easily allow themselves to be humiliated by a dictator. But if it offends you then I take back that sentence and offer this instead If you are intelligent then you would not bow down so easily to a dictator and allow yourself be humiliated.
Regards,
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Peace
Lote tree, is there a reason that youre not answering my question?
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LoteTree you are sorry case of inferiority complex. You decided to stick with the popular propanda of your elected government to be considered "Cool" and to hide your inferiority complex.
I have no such complexes.
Thanks.I suggest you go and do some reading before jumping into discussions related to world policies and systems. Broaden your view. This also goes for Jaxal. There is nothing wrong if you do not support the popular issues just for you information.
And I suggest you read something more than PRAVDA and incase you have not noticed, Soviet Union and Communism is dead!
Regards,
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Peace
Lote tree, if you dont want to speak to me i fully understand so, that would be my own fault. Just let me know so, Jazak Allah khein.
If thats not the problem. then please answer my question.
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Noah please repeat the question. I must have missed it and I don't want to roll up and start reading previous posts.
Thanks
peace
the question for lote tree is Lote tree...why are there only 2 options in your worldview?
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LoteTree
All the Saddam allegations which are more lies than truth you keep repeating them.Lies? So people of Falubja inhaled nerve gas accidently did they?
There is nothing wrong reading PRAVDA news.
You had no choice if you lived in the Soviet Union. But wake up chap Soviet Union is no more.
You want me to change the democracy? You must be 13 year old kid who think that he can change the system. You live in imaginary world and see the things from popular point of view.
A 13 year old? Blimey, hum that was a while ago...lets see. Remember that french teacher at school. Lovely blue eyes, long slender features, full lips...and very nice... erm..oops sorry. You brought back memories chap! -)
We can all do our bit to change the way democracy serves us as a society.
Me I analyze everything to come to an conclusion.
Reading PRAVDA and reaching conclusions is not doing much!
MQuran is a wise person and I am following him by quiting this endless senseless discussion.
Yes, you like following others don't you? The sheep baabaa-ing to its master. Be your own person. Be an individual.
And you have not offered anything for discussion only parrotted "democracy is bad, democracy is bad".
Regards,
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Kgb, forget it. Lote tree is not interrested in any fruitfull debate. Most of us have been lured into this clap trap, i hope my question being repeated 3 times and still unanswered is proof enough of that.
Lote tree cannot think outside the box. That is why the question pose such a threat to him. It has to be either or, it has to be them or us. it has to be black or white. it has to etc.. neuances just doesnt excists in his world.
Peace
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Hello Noah,
Lote tree, is there a reason that youre not answering my question?
Lote tree, if you dont want to speak to me i fully understand so, that would be my own fault. Just let me know so, Jazak Allah khein.
If thats not the problem. then please answer my question.
Gosh! I am in such demand! -)
the question for lote tree is Lote tree...why are there only 2 options in your worldview?
2 options in my world view? Really?
I am a poet chap I am used to exploring all views.
That is what all poets do. It is in their nature to look at all views.But I asked you before - what you have in the place of democracy?
and you said without hesitation THEOCRACY!
Ayman and myself have shown you the absurdity of THEOCRACY and I have shown you the vileness of DICTATORSHIPS. So I have explored other world views!DEMOCRACY is government by the People for the People. And it is such a Noble Idea. DICTATORSHIPS FORCES us into becoming unwilling SUBJECTS, SERVANTS and SLAVES. DICTATORSHIPS undermines our very human dignity!
But democracy is not perfect and is indeed flawed but we can work to make it better...
You are young Noah, you are learning. Perhaps one day you will realise how important it is to live with dignity and not be forced to bow down to a DICTATOR and be forced to massage his EGO, only because he wants you to.
Lote tree cannot think outside the box.
I could say Noah you cannot think outside of the Scripture.
That is why the question pose such a threat to him.
Your question is no threat. I thought I answered your questions in the "ABSURDITY OF THEOCRACY?" thread. And Also I did not want to upset you again. You have been ill and all that. I don't want to go into a heated debate with you again.
Thanks.
Regards,
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LoteTree you are an excellent example of stupidity and a complete idiot. Yes it is better not to talk to people like you in future who do not have intelligence to understand a single word of all my previous posts.
I have read your nonesensical posts! They boil down to this Democracy is bad, democracy sucks! This is not an argument! But rant of the unintelligent. And then you say this
All the Saddam allegations which are more lies than truth you keep repeating them.
Are you serious!!!??? He gassed the people of falubja!!! Only persons of utter stupidity will say the words you have written above.
I am sick and tired of people like you who support VILE DICTATORS around the world, who rather lick the boots of Tyrants than stand up for themselves and reclaim their human dignity!
Regards,
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Salaam Lote-Tree,
You saidI am sick and tired of people like you who support VILE DICTATORS around the world, who rather lick the boots of Tyrants than stand up for themselves and reclaim their human dignity!
YES me too, I can't believe people who bow down for dictators.
We must work for freedom of speech so people dare to say something instead of being kneedogs to dictators like Saddam, Bush,Blair,Sharon etc.
When are people going to fear God more than they fear eachother!?
Peace
Sis Majidah -
Hello Noah,
Lote tree, is there a reason that youre not answering my question?
Lote tree, if you dont want to speak to me i fully understand so, that would be my own fault. Just let me know so, Jazak Allah khein.
If thats not the problem. then please answer my question.
Gosh! I am in such demand! -)
the question for lote tree is Lote tree...why are there only 2 options in your worldview?
2 options in my world view? Really?
I am a poet chap I am used to exploring all views.
That is what all poets do. It is in their nature to look at all views.But I asked you before - what you have in the place of democracy?
and you said without hesitation THEOCRACY!
Ayman and myself have shown you the absurdity of THEOCRACY and I have shown you the vileness of DICTATORSHIPS. So I have explored other world views!DEMOCRACY is government by the People for the People. And it is such a Noble Idea. DICTATORSHIPS FORCES us into becoming unwilling SUBJECTS, SERVANTS and SLAVES. DICTATORSHIPS undermines our very human dignity!
But democracy is not perfect and is indeed flawed but we can work to make it better...
You are young Noah, you are learning. Perhaps one day you will realise how important it is to live with dignity and not be forced to bow down to a DICTATOR and be forced to massage his EGO, only because he wants you to.
Lote tree cannot think outside the box.
I could say Noah you cannot think outside of the Scripture.
That is why the question pose such a threat to him.
Your question is no threat. I thought I answered your questions in the "ABSURDITY OF THEOCRACY?" thread. And Also I did not want to upset you again. You have been ill and all that. I don't want to go into a heated debate with you again.
Thanks.
Regards,
Peace
Only lote tree. you never asked me for my view on a theorcracy. The kind im talking about, had you bothered to ask before you went out on a tangent about dicators, is a lot closer to anarchism than dictatorship.
I know about dignity Lote tree, and im not prepared to crawl on my knees for any judge or legal referee put in charge of the court (a place you play tennis and basketball), using laws on me mostly payed for by special interrest groups. Im not bad off in life. far from it Lote Tree. In fact, i should be praising democracy, singing its hymn like you do. Only...i saw it from the top, and i want NO part of it what so ever.
Still, your views are your views, but even though you are my older brother, you have a sad tendency to force things down peoples throats that they dont mean at all. It pisses people off, and im starting to think that you love to do so. Its rude.
So, my older brother...grow up
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I know about dignity Lote tree, and im not prepared to crawl on my knees for any judge or legal referee put in charge of the court (a place you play tennis and basketball), using laws on me mostly payed for by special interrest groups.
If you think that is the case then in a DEMOCRACY you can work to change it. In a DICTATORSHIP you can't - can you not see this Noah?
Is this so hard to grasp?Don't be naieve Noah. Power at the hands of a single person in a DICTATORSHIP is a dangerous thing. Power is easily abused because Power is very corrupting. Power therefore needs to be moderated and kept in check. Power needs to be controlled. Democracy allows you to control this Power and moderate its use more effectively. But this moderation and control is not perfect and never can be perfect. We had 18 years of Iron Lady Margaret Thatcher to realise that! And Democracy itself can be perveted into a DICTATORSHIP! but for all its faults, democracy is the best of the worst types of government that serves humanity best when the Power is properly regulated and controlled.
Im not bad off in life. far from it Lote Tree. In fact, i should be praising democracy, singing its hymn like you do. Only...i saw it from the top, and i want NO part of it what so ever.
Not taking part is an adolesencet abdication of responsibility. As adolescent we want the world the way we want it to be. That is why we have this urge for someone to take charge of this world and set it to rights. That is why as adolescent we desire dictatorship. But in reality World is more complex than we can possibly conceive at the kinder garden. Sooner or later you have to wake up to this complexity....
Still, your views are your views, but even though you are my older brother, you have a sad tendency to force things down peoples throats that they dont mean at all. It pisses people off, and im starting to think that you love to do so. Its rude.
No, Noah, it pisses people off because they feel that their world view is challenged. Just like you can easily piss off a sunni muslim by showing how utter fraud are their books of hadiths.
So, my older brother...grow up )
I grew up long time ago Noah. At the age of 6, you were probably playing marbles in your Dad's back yard. At the age of six I was grappling with concept of "God"
Regards,
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Peace
Still, your views are your views, but even though you are my older brother, you have a sad tendency to force things down peoples throats that they dont mean at all. It pisses people off, and im starting to think that you love to do so. Its rude.
No, Noah, it pisses people off because they feel that their world view is challenged. Just like you can easily piss off a sunni muslim by showing how utter fraud are their books of hadiths.
No. you put words in people mouths and that pisses them off.
look here
Don't be naieve Noah. Power at the hands of a single person in a DICTATORSHIP is a dangerous thing......
where am i talking about dictators? i will tell you. i aint!
Your view on theocracy is heavily lacking neuances. thus
At the age of six I was grappling with concept of "God" ..
you shouldnt have stopped back then.
If you think that is the case then in a DEMOCRACY you can work to change it. In a DICTATORSHIP you can't - can you not see this Noah?
Is this so hard to grasp?you know what, on paper Communism look real good too. In theory Communism have many merits. Its just...it didnt work, because like democracy it is not made by the people, thats just what were told. I cannot force you to see things for what they, thats your own problem )
peace
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Lote tree
To someone who grew up in hell purgatory is an improvement. To someone who grew up in purgatory, its just not good enough!