Quran & Democracy: Are they compatible? by M. Asadi
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whew! what a post! there is so much ego out here that i am kinda suffocating!
am gonna go for some fresh air! ) -
The questions are simple, clear and easy to grasp
1] Who is the messenger today
2] Who were the messengers in the last 1400 years who goverened their kingdom under laws sctriclty from the QuranSeem 2 very simple questions to me anyone care to answer?
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salaa,
I'm living by Quran and for me it's not only a nice book in the bookshelfs.
I suppose it tells you at what speed to travel as well, please also let me know so I can also drive as written in the Quran.
Regards -
salaam
Peace Stillearning,
See post #342.
Sorry some defect with my computer I cannot seem to make out the present day messenger or all those for the past 1400 years. Please do you mind simply repeatingg their names for me. Thanks.
Regatds -
Peace,
I suppose it tells you at what speed to travel as well, please also let me know so I can also drive as written in the Quran.
Why do you have such a supposition?
Do you feel al-quran is of necessity today?
If not do you agree with the following
so if u see, the purpose was to bring law and order, in accordance to the conditions that exsisted then!
Do you believe that Allah has given laws in alkitab?
If so, how does one implement them in a society which may already have a set of laws.
Do you believe people, say 3000 years ago, were less civilized than we are today?
Joe
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Peace,
Sorry some defect with my computer I cannot seem to make out the present day messenger or all those for the past 1400 years. Please do you mind simply repeatingg their names for me. Thanks.
A defect with your computer is preventing you from seeing a modern rasool? What has that got to do with what I said to you anyways?
If you will read post #342 I will not need to repeat what was said already.
Joe
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salaam
The questions are simple, clear and easy to grasp
1] Who is the messenger today
2] Who were the messengers in the last 1400 years who goverened their kingdom under laws sctriclty from the QuranSeem 2 very simple questions to me anyone care to answer?
I still have not seen the answer to the above questions-are they really that difficult?
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Dear Stillearning,
The questions are simple, clear and easy to grasp
1] Who is the messenger today
2] Who were the messengers in the last 1400 years who goverened their kingdom under laws sctriclty from the QuranSeem 2 very simple questions to me anyone care to answer?
I still have not seen the answer to the above questions-are they really that difficult?
I will answer now. If you could be so kind as to ACKNOWLEDGE the answer this time as opposed to just ignoring it.
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Who is the messenger today ? I don't know, I haven't met one yet.
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Who were messengers for last 1400 years? I don't know. I trust al-quraan and my experiences only. Not historical reports.
Now let me ask you, what do your questions prove? I'd like to see if you're honest enough to engage this question instead of your usual tactic of throwing it over your shoulder sir. Thank you.
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salaam mquran
Against my own better judgement I am reponding to your post.
I am astonished that you feel I have not answered your questions. I cannot recall many answers from you other than vague ramblings I will try for possibly the last time. If we stick to numbers then it migght help
(1) You are correct that I said democracy, not perfect, is best system to date-no response reqd
(2) According to you, correct me if I am mistaken, that the best system is NOT DEMOCRACY but the one according to the rasul.
(3) Does it not logically follow that we need the rasul to give us the rules for any society to function and I have given you simple examples of the rules required.
(4) So let us assume that I accept your arguement that the rasul will give us the best rules
(5) So we come to the cruical question-Who is the rasul that will give simple laws to you and me.
Let us deal with what you have raised first then I will deal with your assertion what my questions prove.
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I am glad that you are answering his question.
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SaLaM LT
I merely commented that when other people are not responding to your questions directly, sometimes it is best to leave them alone and not get irate about it...
Do you think if you would have told him to get down on his al-knees and bark like a al-dog, he would done it? loooooooollll coz you seem to have some leash on him wink
Can you not see the difference between two sentences of your own writing Jaxal
LT i dont know what you are looking at but no.. i dont see any difference between the two statments. Perhaps its your old age causing you to see something thats not there.... old chap? wink
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SaLaM SM
How do you know that so well? So you think Quran is only a guide nothing else!?
Becoz that is all it is. Infact SM, did you know , you dont even need the Quran to be a guided? Quran is just a book. An altered, corrupt, abused book. Its not the physical book that matters. Its the spiritual message that God breathed into us when he created us that matters.
But this isn't about how many laws there actually is in Quran,
Ofcourse it is SM. The Quran was never a book of laws. The Quran was never a book on how to run a country for dummies. The Quran was never there to tell me how to be a politician. It was simply there to guide. That is about it.
Quran teaching alot of morals with its many sayings of right and wrong and based on that we can have so high good moral so we can create an state, why not!?
That is what i am saying. Quan has only given us moral fabric. It is our job to look at that moral fabric and derieve the laws.
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SaLaM stillearning
(3) Does it not logically follow that we need the rasul to give us the rules for any society to function and I have given you simple examples of the rules required.
(4) So let us assume that I accept your arguement that the rasul will give us the best rules
(5) So we come to the cruical question-Who is the rasul that will give simple laws to you and me.
There it is. All its shining glory. we need the messenger. Messenger is sooooo important. But umm... right now.... we dont know who the messenger is. WE dont even know if there ever WAS a messenger. So all this time, people have been getting it wrong becoz there was no messenger. I think tht alone explains the absurdity.
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Salaam Stillearnig
Against my own better judgement I am reponding to your post.
If your judgement is 'better', then why go against it?
I am astonished that you feel I have not answered your questions. I cannot recall many answers from you other than vague ramblings I will try for possibly the last time. If we stick to numbers then it migght help
It might.
(1) You are correct that I said democracy, not perfect, is best system to date-no response reqd
(2) According to you, correct me if I am mistaken, that the best system is NOT DEMOCRACY but the one according to the rasul.
(3) Does it not logically follow that we need the rasul to give us the rules for any society to function and I have given you simple examples of the rules required.
(4) So let us assume that I accept your arguement that the rasul will give us the best rules
(5) So we come to the cruical question-Who is the rasul that will give simple laws to you and me.
Let us deal with what you have raised first then I will deal with your assertion what my questions prove.
once again, i have not met the rasul, so i dont know
ball is in your court. Please address my question what does this prove ?
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With due respects to you mquran, I did not use those words exactly (I have the transcript of our conversations). You raised the point that Jaxal was annoying you. I merely commented that when other people are not responding to your questions directly, sometimes it is best to leave them alone and not get irate about it...
Hardly annoying. I was just wondering how long it would take to get this person to understand. I think at this rate, monkeys would evolve and understand your point before this person does. The Quran actually predicted about people who worse like cattle who do not understand (7/179) It was good advice though, peacefulmuslim and stillearning have actually understood what joe and my points were and however small, progress has been made.
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And Mquran, its pretty lame to label people who disagree with u as kafirs.
try correcting urself coz u r not the best of mankind nor r u the judge.PM, I'M not labelling. Al-quraan does the labelling. Is it my fault if it doesn't agree with your thinking. You apply historical elements to it but al-quraan categorically denies it. Im not saying you're a kafir. Im just saying the quran explicitly labels your act. So come off it , please. Unlike some, you actually discuss with sincerety. Bring your ayaat as evidence and we can continue.
And ur second escape seems to be throwing label of sunnism on people who disagree with u.
I understand Quran and the way i see it, Allah doesnt tell us to blinfold ourselves, or call each other names or act arrogant.
Peace!Sunnism is an ideology. If you follow its philosophy or approach, then you're a sunni. I conject that your tafseer methodology mirrors sunnism's approach. This is why im telling you this. Al-quraan doesn't approve of this method. It calls those who think its a historical text as kafireen. So if you're a believer, why are you still doing it?
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Salaam sis Majidah,
SMHow do you know that so well? So you think Quran is only a guide nothing else!?
Hmn I think Quran can be more than just a guide, I see Quran as a lifeline or something, you hold on to it and won't let it go if you are familiar with it.
Al-quraan is a guide correct and we need to hold on to it. What does a guide do ? It provides you LAWS which if you follow, you will be evolved. This is whole point of al-quraan. This person cannot even understand what a guide does and so there's no point in saying anything to this person. He doesn't even know what part of al-quraan is authentic since he claims the quran is corrupted despite proof to the contrary.
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Salaam Mq and all,
I'm give up!
Not because I have wrong understanding but it feels like it's no meaning to go further with people who can't see.
Peace and take care,
Sis Majidah
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salaamonce again, i have not met the rasul, so i dont know
ball is in your court. Please address my question what does this prove ?
Across 16 pages you have argued again and again that rasul is the one who will give us the rules and you dont know who this rasul is-ignorance and stupidity is a lethal combination
and you hhave the nerve to make remarks likeI was just wondering how long it would take to get this person to understand. I think at this rate, monkeys would evolve and understand your point before this person does.
It is often said ignorance is a bilss in your case it is heavenly.