Is Quran anti- secular?
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See in a normal civilized country, we dont need 4 people as witness. We need evidence. Again, one more reason why Quran was never meant to run a country.
Poor guy. He thinks ppl need to go round spying on others. This is what comes from not reading al-quraan but spending ones time pestering women.
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Oh, here we go again!
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I would appreciate it, if u do not resort to calling people 'names'.
I would kindly request u to address anyone expressing their views here, with respect, EVEN if u disagree with them.
There is no point in a discussion if there is no respect for fellow human beings.Im simply stating the truth about Rizwan. He has made a nuisance of himself and once precipitated a lady actually CRYING in a voice-chat room. As such, its best to be aware of this person.
In continuing, lets deconstruct Rizwan's statement Only proves that Quran was never meant to run a country
What is entailed from 'running a country' ?
Answer strategic , tactical and operational activities. In other words, long-term, mid-term and short-term goals.
Does al-quraan posess
a) strategic goals Yes. If one reads the story of Adam, it tells you how what a society based on Allah's concepts will be like.
b) tactical goals Yes, if one reads the stories of David and Solomon, it tells you about the tactics of running a mulk.
c) operational goals al-quraan's ethical code is precisely what all humans need in order to run a clean and efficient government.
In short, Rizwan is as usual, giving false accusations against the book. Try asking him for evidence if you will and you will see for yourself.
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I feel bad humiliating you. Almost felt pity for you. but looks like you havent learnt anything from your divorce.
Im simply stating the truth about Rizwan. He has made a nuisance of himself and once precipitated a lady actually CRYING in a voice-chat room. As such, its best to be aware of this person.
Ill take being a nuisance over being divorced anyday wink
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Oh, here we go again!
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I agree with u born again.
This attitude has to stop if we are to have a constructive discussion.
All of us are bound to differ in our views and opinions.
But that shouldnt permit anyone to use impolite behaviour in a public forum.
We need to respect each other and also the differences. -
Its a shame your victims don't agree with you (
Don't you know ? NO MEANS NO. No amount of crying would change that.
I feel bad humiliating you
Don't feel bad cause Im not here for my ego, unlike yourself. This is why unlike you, I wont cry if women tell me to sod off. The reason why you feel the need to resort to the egotistical dimension is due to the fact you don't have anything by way of SUBSTANCE. I'm not alone in my opinion of you either. I have noted ppl telling you to 'stfu' as you so eloquently put it. Even moderators have a hard time trying to get you to stay in topic for one very simple reason you can't conduct a discussion. I doubt you can conduct a nursery rhyme....
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I agree with u born again.
This attitude has to stop if we are to have a constructive discussion.
All of us are bound to differ in our views and opinions.
But that shouldnt permit anyone to use impolite behaviour in a public forum.
We need to respect each other and also the differences.PM, np, im done with old rizwan here. I have presented a refutation of Rizwans statement. Would you care to comment on it.
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Yea... i didnt think you had the balls either to do that
The Quran actually forbids me to go into the masjid of the people like yourself but you can come down my way if you want. But first tell me, what is it you intend? You want to sex-pester guys now since you've exhausted all possible female options?
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The Quran actually forbids me to go into the masjid of the people like yourself
BAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl . DAMNnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnUR A WUSS BAAAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHAAHAHHAHAAHAHHAAHAH . No wonder you got divorced LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Im sorry mquran now i feeel sooo bad for calling you out looooooooooooooooooooolllllllllll damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn BAAAAAA HAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl
I once saw a blind man trying to fend off mugs with his stick and you cant cant even get yourself to come out BAAAAAAAAAAAA rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAA. THIS IS IT MAN UR DONE DEAL. DAMNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
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Rizwan, if you want to meet, we can arrange it cause London's huge. All I ask is for you to tell me what you plan. Im not going to meet you to hear you rhyme.
p.s. are you medically unable to read beyond the 8th word of a sentence or something. I did actually say but you can come down my way if you want.
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peace to all,
In ma opinion....Quran doesnt talk about any religion...It was never meant to establish any religious law, moreover it denounces religious believe. Being secular doesn?t mean one cant have personal spiritual believes. science doesnt denounce spirituality but speaks of it in another language which is logic and prove.
So a community who reads Quran and has the same values will have a balance community with unbiased non-religious constitution.......
The whole thing depends on how one understands the concept of "God" and how they perceive the nature. Does Quran say anything about promoting a religion in the name of "Islam" ?? I don?t think so.
I think we messed up all the words and became trapped in some Arabic words such as "Islam, muslim". Labeling is a common practice ppl cant live without..and this is one of the habit that takes us away from the actual meaning.
Quran is just a guiding source which tries to create common values between humans with an objective to create balance in the natural system...A state can never have any religion, It can only allow it.
So in a way it very similar to secularism...
Shanti
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In ma opinion....Quran doesnt talk about any religion...It was never meant to establish any religious law, moreover it denounces religious believe. Being secular doesnt mean one cant have personal spiritual believes. science doesnt denounce spirituality but speaks of it in another language which is logic and prove.
So, when it tells you what to do with criminals, what do you call it then? Allah gives these ahkaam/rulings very clearly in the book.
So a community who reads Quran and has the same values will have a balance community with unbiased non-religious constitution.......
Is 'justice' not a 'value' ? If it is and 'quranites' are meant to have it,
shouldnt they seek its operationalisation from al-quraan itself?
I think your use of the terms 'religious' is unjustified here. Al-quraan does have laws and it doesnt differentiate from a religious or non-religious dimension.The whole thing depends on how one understands the concept of "God" and how they perceive the nature. Does Quran say anything about promoting a religion in the name of "Islam" ?? I dont think so.
Not the name but the essence. You're doing away with the whole essence, Shamsul.
I think we messed up all the words and became trapped in some Arabic words such as "Islam, muslim". Labeling is a common practice ppl cant live without..and this is one of the habit that takes us away from the actual meaning.
I agree with you. Anyone 'born muslim' is a 'muslim' to them. Al-quraan promotes a more functional term of 'muslim', 'islam' etc.
Quran is just a guiding source which tries to create common values between humans with an objective to create balance in the natural system...A state can never have any religion, It can only allow it
Im surprised that you accept these 'secular' and 'religious' categories blindly. These are just empty words. A secular state does have values. Of course it allows for empty rituals to be practised. Who cares if a bunch of worshippers go up and down 5 times a day or sing Jesus songs every week? But try opposing thier corporatisation programs. Try opposing the being sold out to the corporations and then you will see why Allah talks about ar-ribaa.
A state's religion is hedonism for the chosen few. Stalinism exists in many forms.
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Hi Shamsul-arefin,
peace to all,In ma opinion....Quran doesnt talk about any religion...It was never meant to establish any religious law, moreover it denounces religious believe. Being secular doesn?t mean one cant have personal spiritual believes. science doesnt denounce spirituality but speaks of it in another language which is logic and prove.
Ofcourse, one can have their individual religious belief. But the constitution would have to be governed by a set of laws. Which do u think would be right?
Secular laws taking into consideration justice of humanity irrespective of religion, or religious laws from the religion which majority of the people of a country follow and the minority forced to follow the same religious legislation even if they dont believe in it?So a community who reads Quran and has the same values will have a balance community with unbiased non-religious constitution.......
I agree. The values are to be given importance. That is the whole message.
Quran is just a guiding source which tries to create common values between humans with an objective to create balance in the natural system...A state can never have any religion, It can only allow it.
So in a way it very similar to secularism...Yeah, but what should be legislation be based on? Religion of the majority or secularism?
So, to say, america, u.k would have christian legislation? Is that what some out here believe should be the case? -
I agree. The values are to be given importance. That is the whole message
The quran doesnt even have a WORD for 'values' and it never postulated itself as a MORAL guidance or BASIC reference. This is all lies projected unto al-quraan. PM , do you care at all what al-quraan says ?
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Hi Mquran,
My question is simple.
I have no clue which country u live in.
This question is for all those muslims living in secular countries such as USA, Australia, Britain,India etc... Would u prefer if ur country had a religious legislation(such as christian, hindu etc) based on the religion of the majority, or would u prefer a secular legislation taking into consideration 'humanity in general irrespective of religion', like that of now? -
This question is for all those muslims living in secular countries such as USA, Australia, Britain,India etc... Would u prefer if ur country had a religious legislation(such as christian, hindu etc) based on the religion of the majority, or would u prefer a secular legislation like that of now?
Im in London, thanks.
Firstly, your question has no essential meaning.
Both religious and secular approaches have LAWS.
Laws are meant to be followed.
However, 'religious laws in the world' (i know this term is going to be misunderstood) tend to be oppressive by standards of al-quraan. Secular laws compared to this, are more in-line with al-quraan.
More in-line DOESN'T MEAN absolutely in-line. Please understand this.
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Firstly, your question has no essential meaning.
It has all the essential meaning its meant to have. Thank u for ur opinion, though.
Both religious and secular approaches have LAWS.
Laws are meant to be followed.I agree.
However, 'religious laws in the world' (i know this term is going to be misunderstood) tend to be oppressive by standards of al-quraan. Secular laws compared to this, are more in-line with al-quraan.
More in-line DOESN'T MEAN absolutely in-line. Please understand this.
Well, if u r gonna say , a country with muslim majority should have religious legislation, its only fair that the other countries also follow their religious laws, instead of secular laws meant for 'humanity in general irrespective of religion'.