Chapter 106 translation
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Peace Wakas,
The reasoning for 'cherish' came from comparing the various translations used for the A-L-F concept. People have variously translated it as covenant, taming, and cherishing (Khalifa).
When studying the reasoning behind each, there was some problems in the meaning being rendered.
The safeguarding concept is not something I considered because the root has a meaning of unification, togetherness, attachment. And that's the key that allowed me to understand Khalifa's choice of "cherish" for this concept. The idea of attachment to things.
The problem with using tribal names or understanding qurayshin to be a tribal name is that not only does it freeze the concept in time; it requires acceptance of a source outside to know who the tribe was. The traditionists have them as the enemy (for a time). As an enemy, the concept of 'taming' for A-L-F is appropriate as Pickthall has chosen.
I understood the cherishing to be 'valuing' above the God and His ability to provide; an 'attachment' or 'cherishing' of worldly things.
So that in the first verse the people are cherishing or valuing their ability to be victorious - their heroes to keep them safe from attacks and fear of being attacked.
In the second verse they are valuing the ability of their caravans and journeying related to this enterprise throughout the year to feed them.
While the God is the one who should be served, and who provides and continues to provide those things of food/needs and security from fear.
I hope that has made it clearer now.
Regards.
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Peace,
Some may remember some translations I have posted before. I have been prevented from much progress for some months; but found some time to look at 106 tonight. After three hours or so I think I found a reasonable translation for this otherwise difficult chapter.
Chapter 106
In the name of God, Ar Rahman, The Most Merciful
1 They cherish the victorious,
2 They cherish the journeying in the winter and summer,
3 Let them serve the Lord of this house (instead),
4 Who feeds them against hunger, and secures them against fear.Brother Wakas is right....you must provide the reasoning behind your rendering, otherwise it carries no weight.
Apply our exegetical methodology to this sura, and see what it is really telling you...
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Peace,
Some may remember some translations I have posted before. I have been prevented from much progress for some months; but found some time to look at 106 tonight. After three hours or so I think I found a reasonable translation for this otherwise difficult chapter.
Chapter 106
In the name of God, Ar Rahman, The Most Merciful
1 They cherish the victorious,
2 They cherish the journeying in the winter and summer,
3 Let them serve the Lord of this house (instead),
4 Who feeds them against hunger, and secures them against fear.Brother Wakas is right....you must provide the reasoning behind your rendering, otherwise it carries no weight.
Apply our exegetical methodology to this sura, and see what it is really telling you...
Brother Wakas has been provided above with my reasoning.
When you say "our exegetical methodology" I'm presuming that you are advocating your own groping for meaning by looking blurrily at all things through the "christ lens".
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Peace,
Some may remember some translations I have posted before. I have been prevented from much progress for some months; but found some time to look at 106 tonight. After three hours or so I think I found a reasonable translation for this otherwise difficult chapter.
Chapter 106
In the name of God, Ar Rahman, The Most Merciful
1 They cherish the victorious,
2 They cherish the journeying in the winter and summer,
3 Let them serve the Lord of this house (instead),
4 Who feeds them against hunger, and secures them against fear.Brother Wakas is right....you must provide the reasoning behind your rendering, otherwise it carries no weight.
Apply our exegetical methodology to this sura, and see what it is really telling you...
Brother Wakas has been provided above with my reasoning.
When you say "our exegetical methodology" I'm presuming that you are advocating your own groping for meaning by looking blurrily at all things through the "christ lens".
Our exegesis covers each and every word, in each and every ayah, of the surah under scrutiny.
Each word is then concorded with other similar word/root-based derivatives as they are used in the Koran.
Definitions are given from the world's highest quality lexical aids (even the ones promoted by this forum), front and center and highlights the ones that are chosen as pertaining to the text in question.
Comparisons to other scriptures (outside of the Koran) are also given.
Only after all this, are conclusions drawn....
There is nothing hidden.
No punches are thrown.
All is shown.
Your reaction to this honesty is to simply turn your head... shock
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Your reaction to this honesty is to simply turn your head... shock
Because you have a false paradigm, you see everything in a false way.
It's like illuminating everything with a blue light and attempting to discern the correct hues. You end up identifying things incorrectly or not seeing them at all.
Regards.
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Peace Truth, MZ, Wakas, all,
2 They cherish the journeying in the winter and summer,
their covenant for trade journeying (of/the)winter and summer
- their safeguarding/keeping of the summer and winter's journey,
Although in Modern Arabic, the word "sayf" means "summer", in Classical Arabic it means "spring". According to Classical Arabic dictionaries (see Lisan Al-3arab) the pre-quranic Arabs had the following seasons
Shitaa Winter
Sayf Spring
Qayth Summer
Kharif FallThe problem with using tribal names or understanding qurayshin to be a tribal name is that not only does it freeze the concept in time; it requires acceptance of a source outside to know who the tribe was.
I completely agree. The Arabs were very proud of their tribal affiliations. Hence, there are many inscriptions through out Arabia that name all sorts of tribes and NONE is named Quraysh. So this cannot be the name of what was supposed to be one of the most famous tribes of the time.
In the name of God, Ar Rahman, The Most Merciful
From pre-quranic Christian inscriptions in Southern Arabia such as the inscription of Abraha, we can see that "al-rahman" means the Almighty.
I hope this helps.
Peace,
Ayman
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Your reaction to this honesty is to simply turn your head... shock
Because you have a false paradigm, you see everything in a false way.
It's like illuminating everything with a blue light and attempting to discern the correct hues. You end up identifying things incorrectly or not seeing them at all.
Regards.
We show all possible definitions in our exegesis.
You show zero.
None.
No references whatsoever.
You have no basis for your position....only your hardened opinion...
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peace Oben, all,
Not to worry, I read your post before it got deleted.
Mine also got deleted. In brief, it said
I was unsure about the influence of "fi" at the start, as it may tee up the rest of the signs. It may need clarified.
Also, I asked Ayman how he rendered 1061
Wakas
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Peace Wakas,
literal word-for-word
- Li-eelafi1 (for the safeguarding/keeping) qurayshin2 (of the victorious/Quraish)
With respect to the above translation, "quraish" doesn't have the definite article while in your literal translation "the victorious" does.
Please let me know if you know of another example in the great reading that can be translated in a similar way.
Thanks,
Ayman
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peace brother Ayman,
It seems that was a mistake on my part. There is no "al" hence "the" should be removed.
Does this weaken the argument for Quraysh (as in the tribe)?
Please let me know if you know of another example in the great reading that can be translated in a similar way.
Unfortunately, I'm not familiar enough with 'the reading' to recall/know examples.
Wakas
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Peace brother Wakas,
Thank you for your quick reply on this issue.
It seems that was a mistake on my part. There is no "al" hence "the" should be removed.
Does this weaken the argument for Quraysh (as in the tribe)?
According to Lane's Lexicon (from your excellent site), QaRaSha means gained/earned/acquired and collected for his family. So another way to render the passage could be
1061-4. For keeping on earning, their keeping is the journey of the
winter and spring. So they should serve the Lord of this house who fed
them against hunger and secured them against fear.Now, like the original passage, both "ilaf" and "quraysh" in 1061 are in the indefinite. I think this meaning of keeping on/maintenance of "earning" is more in line with the commercial activity of traveling in winter and spring. The "victorious" doesn't seem to fit because there is no conflict or war in the passage to warrant victory but there seems to be commercial travel.
Please let me know what you think.
Peace,
Ayman
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Salam Brother Ahmed,
Peace Oben
I wonder why you translated the following into English
God
The Most Mercifuland you left Ar Rahman, in arabic?
I think Brother Oben got a point there. Please refer to http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/rahman.htm . What do you think?
Regards
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Salam Brother Ahmed,
Peace Oben
I wonder why you translated the following into English
God
The Most Mercifuland you left Ar Rahman, in arabic?
I think Brother Oben got a point there. Please refer to http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/rahman.htm . What do you think?
Regards
Salam brother gclandcp
Actually bro i'm in favour of not translating His names at all
i just thought that if you will trnaslate something then the rest of the sentence should be translated
Salam
