sex is private
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Peace all )
You know what bothers me very much?
All the time people with a certain identity are talking about other people, defining them, speaking for them.
Men do that for women, rich whites do that for poor blacks, heterosexuals do that for queers, feminist Westerners do that for traditional Arab women, traditional Arab women do that for feminist Westerners etc. etc. etc..
They all talk about others, whose experiences they haven?t shared, whose feelings they haven?t explored.
And all it shows is only one thing
The establishment of a power relation!As I mentioned, how does that Mr. Makow know what a woman wants more than anything?
And the same applies to this silly pearls and diamonds rhetoric that has been repeated over and over in the recent decades, mostly by traditional sunnis.
Women don?t need men to tell them that they are pearls and diamonds.
We don?t take this as a compliment when it is used to restrict OUR behaviour and to define us from an outside position.There are many many parts of modern feminism that I dont like. Partly it has replaced the demonization of the independent woman by a demonization of the woman who wants to belong.
This is wrong. Personal likes should be considered in both cases and personal interactions with men as well.
However, the modern conception of being a woman has achieved one thing that is very much to be appreciated
That women can talk for themselves, say themselves how they feel like, what they want and how they want to be valued.Regards,
Leyla
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Ofcourse the girl who is looking a "Babe" will have much more probabilty of being teased or staired at, while making people horny.
So a "babe" makes a guy "horny" therefore that gives you the right to strip all women of their human dignity and subjugate them under the power of men and make them into men's property - into Diamonds and Pearls so that they can be hidden away in hareems and black cloaks? Virtual Eye try to see women as human beings then you might realise that diamonds and pearls argument was invented by men to keep women under subjugation, to deny them their rights as human beings, to deny their freedom to be human being!
Regards,
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All the time people with a certain identity are talking about other people, defining them, speaking for them.
Men do that for women, rich whites do that for poor blacks, heterosexuals do that for queers, feminist Westerners do that for traditional Arab women, traditional Arab women do that for feminist Westerners etc. etc. etc..
They all talk about others, whose experiences they haven?t shared, whose feelings they haven?t explored.
And all it shows is only one thingThe establishment of a power relation!I don't understand your comments above of people speaking for other people. Slavery was not abolished by slaves talking for themselves. It was usually ordinary people and former slave owners that came to realise that Evil of Slavery and worked towards emancipationg the slaves. We don't have to experience injustice to speak against injustice.
Regards,
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Peace Lote Tree
Please read my post again, more carefully, also in context as an answer to the posts of virtualeye and the article by Mr. Makow who both tried to speak for women and define them.
I think you misunderstood my point.
I did not write about speaking for justice.
I wrote about defining others from an outsider`s position.As an addition
I guess slaves realized much earlier than the "ordinary people" the evils of slavery and tried to do much earlier something against it.
The list of historically documented tries of slave rebellions etc. is pretty long.
I guess that was because they experienced directly what those evils were about.
How nice that finally after centuries some from the class in power joined them! -
Please read my post again, more carefully, also in context as an answer to the posts of virtualeye and the article by Mr. Makow who both tried to speak for women and define them.
I too spoke for women but from the point view of individuals. Thats why your comments where bit confusing.
I guess slaves realized much earlier than the "ordinary people" the evils of slavery and tried to do much earlier something against it. The list of historically documented tries of slave rebellions etc. is pretty long.
How nice that finally after centuries some from the class in power joined them!All these things too. But changed was brought about by those that were not slaves themselves, those that have not experienced slavery.
Regards,
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I too spoke for women but from the point view of individuals. Thats why your comments where bit confusing.
A, ok, I see. You thought I was answering you? No. I thought the context was clear.
All these things too. But changed was brought about by those that were not slaves themselves, those that have not experienced slavery
Which is a pitty. It even more enforces the power relationship.
There are theories that there are really good indications that the true reason why in the end the powerful decided to abolish slavery was just simply econmical.
The problem with slavery
Ok, you can treat slaves as without rights but still you need to feed them and take care of them so that they are still strong enough to work for you.
And that can become expensive with time ....It?s like with colonializm which was probably not abolished because of great men like Gandhi but simply because to have to care for your colonies is in the end more expensive than just putting your industry there through globalization.
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Ofcourse the girl who is looking a "Babe" will have much more probabilty of being teased or staired at, while making people horny.
So a "babe" makes a guy "horny" therefore that gives you the right to strip all women of their human dignity and subjugate them under the power of men and make them into men's property - into Diamonds and Pearls so that they can be hidden away in hareems and black cloaks? Virtual Eye try to see women as human beings then you might realise that diamonds and pearls argument was invented by men to keep women under subjugation, to deny them their rights as human beings, to deny their freedom to be human being!
Regards,
YOU GO PREACH THIS HUMAN BEING IDEOLOGY TO AMERICANS,,,,WHERE THEY HAVE HIGHEST RATE OF RAPES IN THE WORLD. THE COUNTRIES HAVING MORE NUDITY MEANS THEY PROVOKE THEIR MALES MORE. EVEN A STUPID CAN UNDERSTAND THE PROBABILTY OF MORE SEXUAL CRIME IN THE EXPLICIT ENVIRONMENT AS COMPARED TO THE ENVIRONMTN WHERE WOMEN COVER THEIR BODY BETTER.
In America a rape is that sexual activity which is done against the will of women AND is reported also. Other wise their must be several times more cases where women dont report. And there must be huge number of cases where both parteners in sex are willing.
So go preach all those nations that why do they become more violate when women use short dress, after all they should be seen as human. Right?
And I think you dont have balls, otherwise God has given this natural ability to MALES that they feel attraction for women (and its a test for our modesty).
VE.
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In America a rape is that sexual activity which is done against the will of women AND is reported also.
I see so you have defined rape as an sexual activity done against the WILL of WOMEN. Good. By that definition then millions of rapes are being committed daily in Middle East, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh etc. because women there have no will of their own they are the property of men! Diamonds and Pearls! And men there carry out these rapes within the safety of so called "marriage" and get away with it!!
And I think you dont have balls, otherwise God has given this natural ability to MALES that they feel attraction for women (and its a test for our modesty).
There you have your thinking. The DIVINE sanction to treat women like cattle!!
Regards,
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I too spoke for women but from the point view of individuals. Thats why your comments where bit confusing.
A, ok, I see. You thought I was answering you? No. I thought the context was clear.
Yes beause you wrote
They all talk about others, whose experiences they haven?t shared, whose feelings they haven?t explored.
I will never know what it is like to be a women because I will never be able to experience this. But I can speak against injustice done to women by men...
All these things too. But changed was brought about by those that were not slaves themselves, those that have not experienced slavery
Which is a pitty. It even more enforces the power relationship.
There are theories that there are really good indications that the true reason why in the end the powerful decided to abolish slavery was just simply econmical.
The problem with slavery
Ok, you can treat slaves as without rights but still you need to feed them and take care of them so that they are still strong enough to work for you.
And that can become expensive with time ....It?s like with colonializm which was probably not abolished because of great men like Gandhi but simply because to have to care for your colonies is in the end more expensive than just putting your industry there through globalization.
There have been compassionate people who have worked to get rid of slavery not because of economy but out of compassion...
Regards,
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YOU GO PREACH THIS HUMAN BEING IDEOLOGY TO AMERICANS,,,,WHERE THEY HAVE HIGHEST RATE OF RAPES IN THE WORLD. THE COUNTRIES HAVING MORE NUDITY MEANS THEY PROVOKE THEIR MALES MORE. EVEN A STUPID CAN UNDERSTAND THE PROBABILTY OF MORE SEXUAL CRIME IN THE EXPLICIT ENVIRONMENT AS COMPARED TO THE ENVIRONMTN WHERE WOMEN COVER THEIR BODY BETTER.
Nothing would stop perverts, not even a fully covered woman.
You speak about rates!? And the highest rates too!? Compared to what? To No rates? Where do you live exactly? Come to the middle east and try to find studies and rates! ??? You must be joking! You won't be allowed to even make a study! Also where would you find a woman or a little girl or a little boy who would choose or know to speak? If only the killed or burnt to death can speak!In America a rape is that sexual activity which is done against the will of women AND is reported also. Other wise their must be several times more cases where women dont report. And there must be huge number of cases where both parteners in sex are willing.
VE.Wives here, and I suppose everywhere else in the "muslim+arab" world, don't have the right of willingess.This right is exclusive to the husband. This is as basic here as Quran.
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YOU GO PREACH THIS HUMAN BEING IDEOLOGY TO AMERICANS,,,,WHERE THEY HAVE HIGHEST RATE OF RAPES IN THE WORLD. THE COUNTRIES HAVING MORE NUDITY MEANS THEY PROVOKE THEIR MALES MORE. EVEN A STUPID CAN UNDERSTAND THE PROBABILTY OF MORE SEXUAL CRIME IN THE EXPLICIT ENVIRONMENT AS COMPARED TO THE ENVIRONMTN WHERE WOMEN COVER THEIR BODY BETTER.
Nothing would stop perverts, not even a fully covered woman.
You speak about rates!? And the highest rates too!? Compared to what? To No rates? Where do you live exactly? Come to the middle east and try to find studies and rates! ??? You must be joking! You won't be allowed to even make a study! Also where would you find a woman or a little girl or a little boy who would choose or know to speak? If only the killed or burnt to death can speak!In America a rape is that sexual activity which is done against the will of women AND is reported also. Other wise their must be several times more cases where women dont report. And there must be huge number of cases where both parteners in sex are willing.
VE.Wives here, and I suppose everywhere else in the "muslim+arab" world, don't have the right of willingess.This right is exclusive to the husband. This is as basic here as Quran.
Miss supporter of women freedom. You should get rid of your clothes and live the life while nude to support your fellow women's freedom. Do you? Certainly you will not. Then why are you just opposing for no reason?
And please change your display picture, cuz it is also some traditional Hijab. And use your sexy pictures because it has no difference for the perverts and males in general.
VE
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YOU GO PREACH THIS HUMAN BEING IDEOLOGY TO AMERICANS,,,,WHERE THEY HAVE HIGHEST RATE OF RAPES IN THE WORLD. THE COUNTRIES HAVING MORE NUDITY MEANS THEY PROVOKE THEIR MALES MORE. EVEN A STUPID CAN UNDERSTAND THE PROBABILTY OF MORE SEXUAL CRIME IN THE EXPLICIT ENVIRONMENT AS COMPARED TO THE ENVIRONMTN WHERE WOMEN COVER THEIR BODY BETTER.
Nothing would stop perverts, not even a fully covered woman.
You speak about rates!? And the highest rates too!? Compared to what? To No rates? Where do you live exactly? Come to the middle east and try to find studies and rates! ??? You must be joking! You won't be allowed to even make a study! Also where would you find a woman or a little girl or a little boy who would choose or know to speak? If only the killed or burnt to death can speak!In America a rape is that sexual activity which is done against the will of women AND is reported also. Other wise their must be several times more cases where women dont report. And there must be huge number of cases where both parteners in sex are willing.
VE.Wives here, and I suppose everywhere else in the "muslim+arab" world, don't have the right of willingess.This right is exclusive to the husband. This is as basic here as Quran.
Miss supporter of women freedom. You should get rid of your clothes and live the life while nude to support your fellow women's freedom. Do you? Certainly you will not. Then why are you just opposing for no reason?
And please change your display picture, cuz it is also some traditional Hijab. And use your sexy pictures because it has no difference for the perverts and males in general.
VE
And that is your best ???
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He doesn't understand that it can be rape also just having sex with a women even though she allows it. And this is happening all over the world. He thinks that sexy clothes is the only reason for rape. He doesn't understand that it is the level of respect for women in a society or person that determines the behaviour towards women. Rape is not determined by clothes or culture or faith, rape is determined by if assholes who live all over the world think they can get away with it or not. Because they believe they 'deserve' to have sex with that woman. So, sex without love is rape to in my eyes. He thinks only in extremes. It or black or white. So yes, i would count him that young too.
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LoteTree
There have been compassionate people who have worked to get rid of slavery not because of economy but out of compassion...No one doubts this.
But as I said, I was not talking about that stuff at all.
This was just an addition to your statement that sounded a little bit oversimplified to me.
It?s not the first time that you mistook my point, old friend.
You really should one day get in the mood of reading whole posts and see them as integral totalities instead of chosing to focus on a small part of it. That applies to longer texts like al-qur'?n as well.
Believe me, it really helps to understand what a text is really about.virtualeye Miss supporter of women freedom. You should get rid of your clothes and live the life while nude to support your fellow women's freedom. Do you? Certainly you will not. Then why are you just opposing for no reason?
Virtualeye, can you only see in either black or white?
Women?s freedom and independence and not wanting to be treated like an object like a pearl or diamond is not equal to a lewd life!
Only someone who objectifies women to the core would see it that way.By the way
There was a case over here when a black man walked through a park and then was beaten up to death by some racists.
Some idiots afterwards said "It?s his own fault! Doesn?t he know that a black man is not supposed to walk through that park?".These idiots` logic is the same logic that you apply to rapes
It?s the victims fault, according to you.
No, it?s always the criminals fault.No clothes, whatever scarce they may be, excuse a rapist.
Every man is able to controll his balls!
Every other statement is a weak excuse that Allah Almighty would never accept! -
Dumb Lady!
It is as evident as day light, that sexy looking women or the women showing her body will have more chance of being teased/raped/victimized. Human nature is aroused to see the body of women, and not the covered women.
Even a child can understand that there is more probability of Males to be attracted towards sex when a woman is showin her body more.
And by the way if you are muslim then you could have read the verses in Quran about the use of viel. Quran is even telling to do Hijab within the home also. Do you know?
VE
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Dumb Lady!
And by the way, if you are someone who tries to follow al-qur'?n you should know that one should not throw around statements like that.
And you want to talk about respect for women here ??????
About that women are pearls and diamonds to you ???????
Haaaa, haa, haaa ....Quran is even telling to do Hijab within the home also.
Hijab means curtain, barrier. It does not mean headscarf or niq?b.
And, by the way, the specific verses that you probably mean talk about the specific situation of the wives of an-nab?y who are annoyed by some visitors in search of had?th.
Read your qur'?n.What do you think?
That me, Taj, elke or anyone walks around on the street in a bikini and sending out seductive looks at horny men???????
We were talking about independence and not wanting to be objectified, that was all.
And I am sure we all try to appear as decent persons in public.
It is your fantasy alone that takes it to these lewd limits. -
Dumb Lady!
Its high time u read the forum rules.
It is as evident as day light, that sexy looking women or the women showing her body will have more chance of being teased/raped/victimized. Human nature is aroused to see the body of women, and not the covered women.
Human nature is aroused???? Which one is that?Even women get aroused by men..........so, shall we lock all the men up in their houses? What say?
Even a child can understand that there is more probability of Males to be attracted towards sex when a woman is showin her body more.
Really? What about men? Shall we cover their faces up too?
And according to u, is this 'human being' all about sex and lust?? Is there nothing more to a person?Peace!
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Dumb Lady!
VE,
What is this with you and insults? You have to learn to control yourself. We have rules on the forum (you know, rules, the things that you just can't get enough of and needlessly invent in the name of God).
I'm getting really tired of you insulting everyone you disagree with.
If you can't get your point across in a mature manner, don't bother posting.
Again, if you would like, I can post Qur'anic verses that say as much.