Is banning forever?

unknownuser

Hi all,

I accidentally ran into this post(i've stopped reading anything from this member thats why accidental)

But surely, this language is keeping in line with forum rules

Islam's peace comes AFTER conflict and victory over mischief, not as a result of lying down and taking fecal matter from the likes of you.

From
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5765.msg86937#msg86937

Peace!

savage_carrot

Peace PM,

There were no ''warnings''.
The warnings were sent through PM I believe. I also think that Jaxal was warned not to use abusive language in the 'Musharraf/Earthquake' thread, where he did use some abusive language which was cleaned up. If you don't mind, I would like to ask you how you know there were no warnings?

What evidence did Layth or Idolfree1 have for this accusation made? Can Idolfree quote his observations from Jaxal's posts related to flirting with female members?
Can they make/support/accept/ such accusations in a public forum without investigating, and also when the person is banned and has no way to be heard too? What does it say about a person when the administrator supports an accusation? Is it not important for the administrator to clearly investigate it before passing a public comment?

I think I will let Idolfree1 and Layth speak for themselves here if they choose to. Secondly, since that is not why he was banned, and some members have a misconception that the accusations were why he was banned, I hope the previous post by Layth clarifies that particular point.

I accidentally ran into this post(i've stopped reading anything from this member thats why accidental)
I will try to clear up such language and personal remarks wherever I see them, and I hope you guys can help us out by sending a PM wherever you see them, so that conflicts can be defused before they have a chance to erupt and thus create more problems for everyone. I'm learning the ropes right now about the techinical aspects inclusive of cleaning up posts so please bear with me. Thanks.

unknownuser

Hi SC,

Nice to see u as a moderator.
Hope the forum will be much more civilised and clean, than it has been.
Good job, whoever did it.(?zenje )

The warnings were sent through PM I believe. I also think that Jaxal was warned not to use abusive language in the 'Musharraf/Earthquake' thread, where he did use some abusive language which was cleaned up. If you don't mind, I would like to ask you how you know there were no warnings?

The PM's he recieved said 'ur post has abusive language'. he replied 'sorry,. please delete it'. Would u consider this as a 'warning'? Did it say anything about being banned permanently the next time? Wont that be how a warning is made? Well, this information is from jaxal and the mod involved. U can check the previous thread
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4616.msg68048#msg68048

What evidence did Layth or Idolfree1 have for this accusation made? Can Idolfree quote his observations from Jaxal's posts related to flirting with female members?
Can they make/support/accept/ such accusations in a public forum without investigating, and also when the person is banned and has no way to be heard too? What does it say about a person when the administrator supports an accusation? Is it not important for the administrator to clearly investigate it before passing a public comment?

I think I will let Idolfree1 and Layth speak for themselves here if they choose to. Secondly, since that is not why he was banned, and some members have a misconception that the accusations were why he was banned, I hope the previous post by Layth clarifies that particular point.

Can u explain why a false accusation by the female member was made during the same time, a complaint was made by the male member?
Lets even forget the ban for a moment, r u saying any one can faslely accuse any one of moral inconduct and the administrator and moderators will support/accept/side it publicly in the forum without any evidence/without investigating? R u saying that means nothing?
I would propably say the ban is nothing but the false accusation is much worse.

I will try to clear up such language and personal remarks wherever I see them, and I hope you guys can help us out by sending a PM wherever you see them, so that conflicts can be defused before they have a chance to erupt and thus create more problems for everyone. I'm learning the ropes right now about the techinical aspects inclusive of cleaning up posts so please bear with me. Thanks.

I am sure u will do a good job, sc.
Congratulations for the tough job.

I just saw, a while back(i guess when u guys were trying out), a link beneath every post which read 'report to moderator', Which i think is a very good idea, and it will keep the forum clean coz thats an easy method for members to let the administrator know about the abusive posts. Propably u guys should bring that in.

Peace!

savage_carrot

Peace PM,

The PM's he recieved said 'ur post has abusive language'. he replied 'sorry,. please delete it'. Would u consider this as a 'warning'? Did it say anything about being banned permanently the next time? Wont that be how a warning is made? Well, this information is from jaxal and the mod involved. U can check the previous thread
Yes, this is exactly what I meant when I said the rules should be applied more effectively and efficiently. If you remember in the original thread, I posted about formal warnings and suggestions from people on how to better handle such things henceforth. I am going to try to apply a three strikes policy (maybe more would be better?) and in that, I would like offical complaints made to the mods wherever a problem arises.

I am sure u will do a good job, sc.
Congratulations for the tough job.

I just saw, a while back(i guess when u guys were trying out), a link beneath every post which read 'report to moderator', Which i think is a very good idea, and it will keep the forum clean coz thats an easy method for members to let the administrator know about the abusive posts. Propably u guys should bring that in.
Thanks so much for the vote of support, I hope to try and do a good job but filling in marie's shoes is not easy, she is quiet elegance. That is an excellent suggestion, I hope it can be incorporated in the forum. It would make things a lot easier )

David

Peace Taj, all,

From the Admins point of view, everyone who is banned must have been banned justly. But even if one is banned, justly or not,, the banning should be, in my opinion, for a period of time and not forever because people do change, and there is always hope that they would learn from their mistakes and become better persons so why deny them another chance, chances?

What I had meant was that if new information came to light that would overturn previous evidence for banning, then it should be taken into account.

Personally, I didn't like the old forum rules where anyone could be banned without warning. But, I knew what the rules were, and it was my choice to either accept them, or leave.
I like the new forum rules better where permanent banning occurs in stages. I believe permanent banning is necessary for the well-being and harmony of the forum; just as it is in "real life". Some people just don't like to play by the rules. Let us accept reality for what it is.

I do feel that all those who were banned had a general disruptive nature on the forum.

I respect whatever decision the mods/admins make.

Where are the forum rules listed now? I couldn't find them.
It might be a good idea to have users sign a 'contract' when they sign up as members, the contents of which are the forum rules.

peace

P.S. Congratulations to Sr. Nadia on her new appointment. God willing, she will do an excellent job. )

P.P.S. Thanks to Sr. Marie for all her hard work and elegance (as Nadia appropriately noted) in her job as moderator. Congratulations on the new baby, very cute. )

unknownuser

Hi SC and all,

Yes, this is exactly what I meant when I said the rules should be applied more effectively and efficiently. If you remember in the original thread, I posted about formal warnings and suggestions from people on how to better handle such things henceforth. I am going to try to apply a three strikes policy (maybe more would be better?) and in that, I would like offical complaints made to the mods wherever a problem arises.

Didnt quite understand. R u saying the mods/admins wont take any action on any abusive posts they spot if no member has complained about it? ???
I think all such posts should be dealt with, complaint made or not made.

And I think the current banning rules are quite fair.

Disciplinary Action/Ban Process

Please note that all banning/discipline action on this forum will require consensus between at least 2 of the mods.

Step 1. A formal 'warning' will be given to the offending member via private message with a reference to the post/link where the offence took place.
Step 2. A '1-week' ban will be instated on the username and IP of the offending member (member will be informed of the ban taking effect via e-mail).
Step 3. A '1-month' ban will be instated on the username and IP of the offending member (member will be informed of the ban taking effect via e-mail).
Step 4. A permanent ban will be placed on the
username and IP of the offending member (member will be informed of the ban taking effect via e-mail).

Note Spammers/Advertisers or posts of a severe inflamatory nature will be banned without notice.
from http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=1704.0

I am not against permanent banning if it happens in steps like as planned. Hey, shouldnt the forum rules thread have a sticky? ???

And I would also suggest the mods/admins keep all the disciplinary actions including reasons transparent in a thread (one which can be used by only mods/admin, to avoid confusion) so that its transparent for every one to see, beware and be cautious and also for everyone to see that its unbiased.

Peace!

savage_carrot

Peace all,

Thanks David! ;D

Didnt quite understand. R u saying the mods/admins wont take any action on any abusive posts they spot if no member has complained about it?
I think all such posts should be dealt with, complaint made or not made.
No, I meant that I will try to clean it up wherever I see it! Till the 'notify mod/admin' tab is not present, I request people to send their complaints to the mods personally in the old fashioned way, just in case a mod has not seen the post.

I am not against permanent banning if it happens in steps like as planned. Hey, shouldnt the forum rules thread have a sticky?
And I would also suggest the mods/admins keep all the disciplinary actions including reasons transparent in a thread (one which can be used by only mods/admin, to avoid confusion) so that its transparent for every one to see, beware and be cautious and also for everyone to see that its unbiased.
I have sent a request to the admin to sticky it because I tried to do it and this thread got stickied instead -\ apparently some settings have been turned off. I agree with the transparency to avoid problems, in this I mentioned that the warnings be displayed under the avatar information as I think some forums have that. It's upto Layth though, if he thinks it's a good idea.

unknownuser

Hi SC,

I will try to clear up such language and personal remarks wherever I see them, and I hope you guys can help us out by sending a PM wherever you see them, so that conflicts can be defused before they have a chance to erupt and thus create more problems for everyone. I'm learning the ropes right now about the techinical aspects inclusive of cleaning up posts so please bear with me. Thanks.

Let me ask u frankly. U want us to report such posts, right?

So, what action has been taken reg the post I quoted? The member was previously temporarily banned for a week for breaking forum rules. R we gonna do anything now, since he has broken forum rules yet again in his post? According to the forum rules, he should have a temporary ban of 1 month, shouldnt he?

Peace!

savage_carrot

Peace PM,

So, what action has been taken reg the post I quoted? The member was previously temporarily banned for a week for breaking forum rules. R we gonna do anything now, since he has broken forum rules yet again in his post? According to the forum rules, he should have a temporary ban of 1 month, shouldnt he?
Banning is a group decision by consensus and for it to happen, strong evidence must be presented. If you feel strongly about it, please present your argument briefly and send it to all the moderators/admin.

unknownuser

Hi SC,

So, what action has been taken reg the post I quoted? The member was previously temporarily banned for a week for breaking forum rules. R we gonna do anything now, since he has broken forum rules yet again in his post? According to the forum rules, he should have a temporary ban of 1 month, shouldnt he?
Banning is a group decision by consensus and for it to happen, strong evidence must be presented. If you feel strongly about it, please present your argument briefly and send it to all the moderators/admin.

This is what makes the whole system confusing. What constitutes a strong evidence? So, with every post that one is asked to report, if u want us to make a strong case/argument, why is anybody gonna bother to spend so much time? And it should not be about if i feel strongly about it or not, It should be about 'is it right or wrong?'

I have a question coz I am really trying to understand.

Islam's peace comes AFTER conflict and victory over mischief, not as a result of lying down and taking fecal matter from the likes of you.

From
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5765.msg86937#msg86937

Is the language in the above post in line with forum rules or is it not? There is no middle way. So, let us know.
If it is in line with forum rules, people would understand that such language is acceptable in the forum.
If its not acceptable, then u convey so by taking action......appropriate action.

Please make things clear.

peace!

unknownuser

peace all. I agree with peaceful-muslim...A little more consistency,competence,ease,and speed is needed with these warnings....Which should be public/transparent,fully explained and swift...

savage_carrot

Peace,

This is what makes the whole system confusing. What constitutes a strong evidence? So, with every post that one is asked to report, if u want us to make a strong case/argument, why is anybody gonna bother to spend so much time? And it should not be about if i feel strongly about it or not, It should be about 'is it right or wrong?'
Not everyone feels that something is as bad as someone might make it. That's why we have a consensus in regards to banning. Once again, please send them to ALL the mods/admin so that we can get to the bottom of it and check the history and nature of the disputes. Once again the final decision rests with Layth.

unknownuser

Peace all. I have reported mquran and ab for repeated bad-language and hostility...I hope their behaviour will be publicly reprimanded...Hopefully this is the way these guys will learn to speak respectfully....I hope something is done about this 'uncivil' approach...

SwedenMajidah

Salam all,

I will respond because I will show u that I'm not a coward.

I was the one who sent the PM to Br Layth.

Jaxal did annoyed me alot and he was treating me in a strange way.

But I was not alone about this, my male friend he had proofs from other forums that Jaxal did harass female members and he told that to Br Layth.

I didn't knew that the ban was forever, and I think Jaxal has learn his lessons now, or I hope he has (

Sorry that this has gone so far, it wasn't my intention to hurt anyone, I'm not like that at all.

Please forgive me God and u guys, that we will be fair in our desicions.

To Jaxal I hope u forgive me, but why did u chase me like that?

Peace Sister Maria

P.s I welcome Jaxal back if he wants so, I use to give people a second chanse.

unknownuser

Peace all. I just feel its time that someone stood up and addressed these two posters...I feel their behaviour is not constructive...I sincerely hope they both reform their internet methodologies and language...

unknownuser

Peace,

Jaxal did annoyed me alot and he was treating me in a strange way.

Can u quote the posts or some evidence of 'harrasment' please?

But I was not alone about this, my male friend he had proofs from other forums that Jaxal did harass female members and he told that to Br Layth.

Can we have the male member's name, please? And the proofs from him from.........., did u say ''other forum''? I didnt know this was an multi-forum body, but nevertheless, lets have those proofs from u and ur male friend.

Peace!

SwedenMajidah

Peace,

I don't save old messages like that. And he didn't just annoyed me at this forum but also in chat because I had gave him my yahoo messenger before.

I will not hang out someone, I think all must step forward with free will.

Peace sis Maria

unknownuser

Peace,

I don't save old messages like that. And he didn't just annoyed me at this forum

U dont need to save messages. They r saved in the forum. Just quote the ones where he 'harassed' u.

but also in chat because I had gave him my yahoo messenger before.

Chatting in messenger is one's personal domain and nothing to do with the forum as such.
U can always block someone, if u dont want to chat with anyone. How can someone forcefully 'harass' or even chat with u against ur will?

Lets have some evidence of the harassment .

Peace!

unknownuser

And also SM,

Did u write the following to Layth?

I'm not a slanderer but as a woman I don't like when men are disrespect women only because she is a woman. Jaxal harass all females who post in Fm and he has do it to me too, he is famous in Fm all knows about him.He can't act normal with women and he is so childish with all his emoticons on every line.

So, give evidence where u felt harassed becoz u were a woman.

Give evidence where he harassed other females in FM (u seem to be speaking on behalf of females in FM)

Give evidence where U have come to know from other females(also name them) that they feel harased by jaxal

Give evidence where he didnt act normal with women.

Peace!

unknownuser

To The Mods/Admins,

This is what Jaxal has to say to clarify the harassment accusation.

Jaxal has asked u guys to check all his pm's to all/any females and especially to SM to see if there is any evidence of harassment in them. He is ready to reveal the password if requested.
U r free to check all his posts from the forum for any evidence of ''harassment' of ANY female or specifically Sweden Majidah
Jaxal can even present the final 2 messenger logs /conversations where he chatted with Sweden Majidah, if requested by the mods/admins/members.