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  4. A refutation to Bro Yaseen - Polygamy is allowed in 4 23

A refutation to Bro Yaseen - Polygamy is allowed in 4 23

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  • U Offline
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    unknownuser
    wrote on last edited by
    #13

    Peace,

    It's an indirect allowance because if polygamy was disallowed, Allah would said that if you have 2 wives except what is past. Why is he only concerned only about 2 sisters ? The rest of womankind is irrelevant to him?

    Let me repeat 423 does not allow polygamy. Mentioning a specific case does not mean polygamy is allowed in other cases.

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      mquran
      wrote on last edited by
      #14

      Let me repeat 423 does not allow polygamy.

      Let me then ask you, why does 4/23 not prohibit polygamy altogether? Why only for 2 sisters?

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        unknownuser
        wrote on last edited by
        #15

        There is no question that Polygamy is allowed as long as it is for the care of the orphans, but if the man doubt that he won't be just with the multiple wives then he should marry one and not to worry about the orphans

        the two sisters thingy has nothing to do with it, in the past they just used to marry two sisters at the same time and Allah topped that in the Quran as He stopped many traditions that the early humans used to practice

        Salam

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          unknownuser
          wrote on last edited by
          #16

          Peace,

          Let me then ask you, why does 4/23 not prohibit polygamy altogether? Why only for 2 sisters?

          Show me where 423 allows polygamy. Mentioning that bigamy is forbidden in a specific case does not mean polygamy is allowed in other cases.

          423 does not allow polygamy.

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            unknownuser
            wrote on last edited by
            #17

            Peace brother tanvermd

            you said

            423 does not allow polygamy.

            and I totally agree

            cheers

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              unknownuser
              wrote on last edited by
              #18

              Hello Everyone

              Brother Tanverrmd asked me a very good question that I like to take into the public arena

              Salaamun alaikum brother Ahmed,

              I thought that you believed 43 is a mutashabih verse and it correctly means one cannot marry more than one otherwise it creates contradiction with other places in al-qur'aan where we are allowed only to marry one at a time.

              Following is what you wrote in another thread

              Finally how we can know that a verse is Mutashabih?, simply if we find that it can give two contradictory meaning, or two meaning that totally different and can cause confusion, like marrying 4 women for example, that Mutashabih verse 43 was overwritten by another Muhkam verses in the same sura that told us men can?t be fair with more than one woman hence it ordered us to marry only one, and we can see how the Mutashabih 43 verse causes a lot of back fire on the Muslims who wanted to justify their actions of polygamy in many different ways they interpreted verse (43), the fact of the matter is we don?t need that verse to find out of we should marry 4 or not, because the moment we discover the possibly contradictory meaning in it we should stop chasing its meaning as 37 told, However Allah didn?t leave us confused with the Mutashabih verse 43 He told us later to marry only one and even why we should marry only one

              The above is from this link

              http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5840.msg88588#msg88588

              Best regards,

              Tanveer

              Peace mate

              sure, but you forgot that this is my own interpetation that I feel comfotable to "Not to apply on myself" rayher how I understand it from the arabic context, on the other hand I CAN'T FAULT the other understanding hence it is Mutashabih

              i will actually post this reply on that thread

              but I appreciate your question

              cheers

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                mquran
                wrote on last edited by
                #19

                Show me where 423 allows polygamy. Mentioning that bigamy is forbidden in a specific case does not mean polygamy is allowed in other cases.

                Well, if the mentioning of bigamy in this specific case happens to be THE ONLY forbidding of this kind, that's exactly what it means. Unless you're forbidding what Allah allows, of course.

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                  unknownuser
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #20

                  Peace mquran

                  Well, if the mentioning of bigamy in this specific case happens to be THE ONLY forbidding of this kind, that's exactly what it means. Unless you're forbidding what Allah allows, of course.

                  423 does not allow polygamy.

                  According to your logic, if only bigamy with sisters is forbidden then polygamy with everyone else at all times is allowed. That is faulty logic. All 423 says is bigamy with sisters is forbidden. It does not say that polygamy is allowed. You are conjecturing when you imply that it allows polygamy. That is attributing to Allah what He is not saying. I will not discuss this issue with you any further because you insist in conjecturing something that Allah does not say.

                  Regards,

                  Tanveer

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                    mquran
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #21

                    TanveerAccording to your logic, if only bigamy with sisters is forbidden then polygamy with everyone else at all times is allowed. That is faulty logic. All 423 says is bigamy with sisters is forbidden. It does not say that polygamy is allowed. You are conjecturing when you imply that it allows polygamy. That is attributing to Allah what He is not saying. I will not discuss this issue with you any further because you insist in conjecturing something that Allah does not say

                    Here's my logic, Tanveer

                    1. al-quraan is explained in detail.
                    2. al-quraan is a book containing similarities repeating itself.
                    3. al-quraan does not forbid polygamy (the phrase 'haram for you' or 'do not marry more than one woman&#039
                    4. in the only questionable verse, it mentions SISTERS, not even womankind.
                      yet in this fully-detailed, similarly-explaining books, not a single verse can you find prohibiting polygyny.

                    Where's the conjecture?

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                      unknownuser
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #22

                      Peace all,

                      I think that Allah does not allow polygamy for us anywhere in The Quran, except for Prophet Muhammad.

                      yet in this fully-detailed, similarly-explaining books, not a single verse can you find prohibiting polygyny.

                      2432 And marry off those among you that are SINGLE, and the good from among your male and female servants. If they are poor, then God will grant them from His grace. And God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.

                      Allah clearly tells us to marry/marry off the single among us. That proves that Allah does not allow polygamy. If a single person marries an already married person then he/she is not marrying a single person which goes against 2432.

                      The only exception is for Prophet Muhammad

                      336 The prophet is closer to the believers than themselves, and his wives are mothers to them.

                      3328 O prophet, say to your wives "If you are seeking this worldly life and its vanities, then come, I will make a provision for you and release you in an amicable manner."

                      3330 O wives of the prophet, if any of you commits evident lewdness, then the retribution will be doubled for her. This is easy for God to do.

                      3332 O wives of the prophet, you are not like any other women. If you are righteous, then do not speak too softly, lest those with disease in their hearts will move with desire; you shall speak in an honourable manner.

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                        savage_carrot
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #23

                        Peace,

                        Just a few questions, I have discussed this before as well and after reading the posts and verses presented, it does raise some issues.

                        Show me where 423 allows polygamy. Mentioning that bigamy is forbidden in a specific case does not mean polygamy is allowed in other cases.

                        Well, if the mentioning of bigamy in this specific case happens to be THE ONLY forbidding of this kind, that's exactly what it means. Unless you're forbidding what Allah allows, of course
                        .

                        This raises flags as mquran said...if the mention of bigamy happens to be a special case that's forbidden, it begs the question so in other cases it's okay? Secondly, regarding 2432, you would obviously marry off the single among us and the good from the male and female servants as they are the ones most in need (of help/encouragement/support/finances?) to get married. Marry off being the key. If one is independant, they can marry themselves and it will not be someone marrying them off. Thus, those independent are the ones who are already married or not and capable of supporting their family and do not need to be 'married off'. One would think that if polygamy was going to be an issue, we would have a direct verse about it rather than only a specific instance where it is forbidden. I would like more clarification here. Is there a break after the word single in the verse 2432 meaning that it does not only apply to the servants that follow in the same sentence? How/why do we put the comma there?

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                          unknownuser
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #24

                          Peace all,

                          Why would it be "marry off" in 2432 and "marry" in 43; it is the same word. Why can't it be "marry" in 2432 ?

                          Most translators say "marry" instead of marry off in 2432

                          Yusuf Ali Marry those among you who are single, or the virtuous ones among yourselves, male or female if they are in poverty, Allah will give them means out of His grace for Allah encompasseth all, and he knoweth all things.
                          Shakir And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves; if they are needy, Allah will make them free from want out of His grace; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.
                          Pickthal And marry such of you as are solitary and the pious of your slaves and maid-servants. If they be poor, Allah will enrich them of His bounty. Allah is of ample means, Aware.
                          Arberry Marry the spouseless among you, and your slaves and handmaidens that are righteous; if they are poor, God will enrich them of His bounty; God is All-embracing, All-knowing.
                          George Sale Marry those who are single among you, and such as are honest of your men-servants, and your maid-servants If they be poor, God will enrich them of his abundance; for God is bounteous and wise.
                          Hilali/Khan And marry those among you who are single (i.e. a man who has no wife and the woman who has no husband) and (also marry) the Salihoon (pious, fit and capable ones) of your (male) slaves and maid-servants (female slaves). If they be poor, Allah will enrich them out of His Bounty. And Allah is All-Sufficent for His creatures needs, All-Knowing (about the state of the people).
                          Malik Get the singles among you married as well as those who are fit for marriage among your male slaves and female slaves. If they are poor, Allah will make them free from want out of His grace for Allah has boundless resources and is All-Knowing.
                          Maulana Ali And marry those among you who are single, and those who are fit among your males slaves and your female slaves. If they are needy, Allah will make them free from want out of His grace. And Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.
                          QXP And marry the single among you, (whether they are widowed, divorced or bachelors). And those who are still being kept as slaves, male or female, such of them as are fit to marry. If they are poor, Allah will enrich them with His Bounty, for, Allah is of Infinite means, All-Knowing.
                          Sarwar Marry the single people among you and the righteous slaves and slave-girls. If you are poor, God will make you rich through His favor; He is Bountiful and All-knowing.

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                            savage_carrot
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #25

                            In addition to the above by platinum

                            Why would it be "marry off" in 2432 and "marry" in 43; it is the same word. Why can't it be "marry" in 2432 ?

                            Two questions

                            1. If it is marry then does this still mean there is a break after the word single?
                            2. If the break is subjective and the word is still marry, why does it not make sense that it is more of a social guidance that we should help the single from among the servants and the poor to get married?

                            Okay edited to put in the literal, explanations welcomed.

                            2432 Waankihoo al-ayama minkum waalssaliheena min AAibadikum wa-ima-ikum in yakoonoo fuqaraa yughnihimu Allahu min fadlihi waAllahu wasiAAun AAaleemun

                            And marry the widows/widowers from you, and the correct/righteous from your slaves/servants and your owned (F) slaves, if they be poor/needy God enriches/suffices them from His grace/favour/blessing, and God (is) rich/spread , knowledgeable.

                            In my current understanding, this makes it even more of a social guidance if the words are the widows/widowers. In many countries there is prejudice and dicrimination against divorced/widowed women more so than men and on the women's side they get left out for never married girls. Given a choice many women/girls would opt for never married men too as they say it has less baggage to deal with. Maybe this is a way of telling people that we should not discriminate against them for never-married/well-off people?

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                              unknownuser
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #26

                              Peace all,

                              I think the break after single or the comma is because "single" is from "minkum" and "saliheen" is from the servants. So 2432 is asking us to marry the single AMONG US (us all), and is also giving us a second advice to marry the "saliheen" from the servants. That makes it clear that Allah is not allowing polygamy, because in case of polygamy a person marries an already married, and not a single.

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                                savage_carrot
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #27

                                Oops sorry platinum, didn't see your post. Can you edit the one above to explain the words used in the literal as widows/widowers? Peace.

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                                  unknownuser
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #28

                                  Peace SC,

                                  The Arabic word in 2432 is "ayama" which means "unmarried man or woman; single or widowed or divorced; one who lives in celibacy" according to Lisan al-Arab, Lane Lexicon, Taj al-Arus.

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                                    unknownuser
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #29

                                    Peace all,

                                    I further think that Allah did not categorically forbid polygamy in The Quran because then there could not have been ANY exception for Prophet Muhammad. As is clear from 2432, however, Allah does not allow polygamy for any of us, the exception being that of Prophet Muhammad.

                                    Similarly in 420 Allah talks about replacing one wife with another, which also shows that one can marry again ONLY after divorcing the previous wife.

                                    Also in the rules of inheritance Allah mentions all the possibilities of dividing the inheritance but nowhere He mentions what to do if there are more than one wife; did Allah forget about polygamy possibility ?

                                    As Allah never contradicts His words, 43 can only mean "marry off" the female orphans, and not "marry" them more than one at a time, otherwise a contradiction is created between 2432 ad 420 and 43 and the verses about inheritance.

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                                      savage_carrot
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #30

                                      Peace platinum,

                                      Thanks for the clarification, would like to add my thoughts at this point...

                                      I further think that Allah did not categorically forbid polygamy in The Quran is because then there could not have been ANY exception for Prophet Muhammad. As is clear from 2432, however, Allah does not allow polygamy for any of us, the exception being that of Prophet Muhammad.
                                      This has struck me as odd, that polygamy is allowed in one case and not in the other cases for mankind. If polygamy is not categorically forbidden, then 2432 is just social advice? Like women should lengthen their garments? If the prophet is setting an example, then I believe the special exception only for him to have multiple wives is quite hard to explain. After going through all the 'historical' reasons, I can still not come up with any reason why only he was allowed so. If he is setting an example who to marry, then it follows that this example is for the rest of mankind inclusive of polygamy? Or we should disregard the polygamy and only focus on the 'category' of people he married as those were the examples shown? I think people can appreciate a slight dilemma here.

                                      Similarly in 420 Allah talks about replacing one wife with another, which also shows that one can marry again ONLY after divorcing the previous wife.
                                      Literal
                                      And if you wanted exchanging (to exchange) a spouse (in) place (of a) spouse, and you (P) gave one of them (F) a ton , so do not take from it a thing, do you take it wrongfully/slanderfully, and an evident sin/crime?

                                      Can this also not read that if we wanted to divorce one wife for another one we shall not take anything from them? If polygamy is not forbidden then we can replace whichever one we want to exchange or divorce and do the rest as advised in the verse? It works both ways unless there is something I'm missing? Also, how is 4129 explained?

                                      Literal And you will never be able that you be just/equitable between the women, and (even) if you held onto stingily and desired strongly (were very careful), so do not bend/sway all the bend/inclination, so you leave her as/like the suspended neither properly married nor divorced and free to remarry (abused, abandoned and neglected), and if you reconciliate, and you fear and obey (God), so then God was/is a forgiving, merciful.

                                      Also in the rules of inheritance Allah mentions all the possibilities of dividing the inheritance but nowhere He mentions what to do if there are more than one wife; did Allah forget about polygamy possibility ?
                                      I have not studied all the laws of inheritance yet, but is there not a single possibility left out? What about the possibility of writing wills which is very strongly advised?

                                      As Allah never contradicts His words, 43 can only mean "marry off" the female orphans, and not "marry" them more than one at a time, otherwise a contradiction is created between 2432 ad 420 and 43 and the verses about inheritance.
                                      I don't see a contradiction with the verses of inheritance as one can write a will, and if in a strange situation can adapt. As for why only marry off? I would like to know why it stops at 4? Why not many more? Wouldn't that make more sense? Secondly, I discussed this with bro Ayman a year back. He raised some good points which I would like to quote here

                                      Orphans can be BOTH male and female children and the fear of being inequitable certainly applies to both. The sign in 43 mentions THREE entities "orphans", "women", and "those possessed by your oath". The wrong interpretation of "marry-off" is forced to assume that orphans ("yatama&quot and women ("nisa'a&quot are EXACTLY the same entity. Had the sign of 43 meant for them to be the same entity then there would have been nothing wrong with saying "And if you feared that you will not be equitable in the orphans, so marry off those who consented to you from the them ("minhun&quot..." But of course 43 doesn't say that.

                                      A verse that perhaps can make it clear that the two entities "yatama" and women are different and that "yatama" belong to "women" (i.e. the women are widows and the "yatama" are either their biological or adopted children) is verse 4127 that you quote

                                      1. And they ask you for an opinion/clarification in the women, say " The God decrees/clarifies concerning
                                        (1) them (F) and what is read/recited on you in the book concerning the orphans (F and M) of the women (F) who (F) you did not give them (F) what was written/dictated to them (F) and you desire that you marry them (F), and
                                        (2) the weakened from the children (F and M),
                                        (3) and that you take care of the orphans (F and M) with the just/equitable,
                                        and what you do from goodness indeed The God was/is with it knowledgeable."

                                      (F) Female
                                      (M) Male

                                      (1) is talking about WOMEN.
                                      (2) is talking about children who are not orphans
                                      (3) is talking about orphans

                                      As for self-protection, it is synonymous with maturity. Of course, the age of maturity will be different from one person to the other.

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                                        unknownuser
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #31

                                        Peace Nadya, platinum, all,

                                        Thank you platinum and sister Nadya for some interesting points.

                                        I agree with platinum that it only can be "marry" in 2432 instead of "marry off", because of the context of 2433.

                                        2432 And marry those that are single among you, and the good from among your male and female servants. If they are poor, then God will grant them from His grace. And God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
                                        2433 And let those who are not able to marry continue to be chaste until God enriches them of His Bounty.

                                        Those addressed in the first part of 2433 are a subset of those addressed in 2432. "Marry off" will make no sense in 2433, hence If it is "marry" in 2433 it has to be "marry" in 2432.

                                        I think this verse is the key to the issue of polygamy. In this verse Allah is asking us to marry the single among us. This clearly makes polygamy impossible, and allows only monogamy. For example if a single woman marries a married man then the woman is not marrying a single but she is marrying a married man which would go against 2432.

                                        If according to the faulty logic presented by mquran, polygamy is allowed because there is no verse making it haram in al-qur'aan, then by the same faulty logic, polyandry (more than one husband at the same time) should be allowed also because there is no verse making it haram in al-qur'aan either. Extending the same faulty logic, marrying 3 or more sisters at a time would be allowed because 423 forbids marrying ONLY 2 sisters at a time.

                                        The beauty of 2432 is that in a very eloquent way, it makes both polyandry and polygamy impossible, and makes only monogamy possible.

                                        The only exception to this general rule is that for Prophet Muhammad, who was allowed polygamy only as a special privilege given to him and not to all believers

                                        3350 O prophet, We have made lawful for you the wives to whom you have already given their dowry, and the one who is committed to you by oath, as granted to you by God, and the daughters of your father's brothers, and the daughters of your father's sisters, and the daughters of your mother's brothers, and the daughters of your mother's sisters, of whom they have emigrated with you. Also, the believing woman who had decreed herself to the prophet, the prophet may marry her if he wishes, as a privilege given only to you and not to the believers. We have already decreed their rights in regard to their spouses and those who are still dependant. This is to spare you any hardship. God is Forgiver, Merciful.

                                        If Allah had forbidden polygamy, then there would have been no room for the exception for Prophet Muhammad.

                                        This has struck me as odd, that polygamy is allowed in one case and not in the other cases for mankind. If polygamy is not categorically forbidden, then 2432 is just social advice? Like women should lengthen their garments? If the prophet is setting an example, then I believe the special exception only for him to have multiple wives is quite hard to explain. After going through all the 'historical' reasons, I can still not come up with any reason why only he was allowed so. If he is setting an example who to marry, then it follows that this example is for the rest of mankind inclusive of polygamy? Or we should disregard the polygamy and only focus on the 'category' of people he married as those were the examples shown? I think people can appreciate a slight dilemma here.

                                        I think the reason Allah allowed polygamy to Prophet Muhammad is mentioned in the following verse, in the blue part

                                        3337 And you said to the one who was blessed by God, and blessed by you "Keep your wife and reverence God," and you hid inside yourself what God wished to proclaim. And you feared the people, while it was God you were supposed to fear. So when Zayd ended his relationship with his wife, We had you marry her, to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives of their adopted sons if their relationship is ended. And God's command is always done.

                                        Hence when following the example of the Prophet, we should disregard the polygamy (based on 2432) and only focus on the 'category' of people he married as those were the examples shown.

                                        Can this also not read that if we wanted to divorce one wife for another one we shall not take anything from them? If polygamy is not forbidden then we can replace whichever one we want to exchange or divorce and do the rest as advised in the verse? It works both ways unless there is something I'm missing?

                                        Let's break it down

                                        Rule #1 according to 2432 Allah is asking us to marry only the single among us

                                        Rule #2 according to 420 One wife can be replaced by another wife i.e. a divorce has to take place before one marries another wife

                                        When a married male believer marries a second wife, the second wife would have broken the Rule #1 because he is already married and the married male believer also would have broken Rule #2 because he did not take a wife instead of another (divorce then marriage).

                                        Single man ----> married man (first wife). Now as soon as this married man marries SECOND wife without divorcing first wife, he breaks Rule #2. So the state of polygamy won't even be reached in the first place (without breaking the rules) to have Rule #2 applied to a polygamous situation.

                                        Also, how is 4129 explained?

                                        4129 And you will not be able to be fair regarding/between the women even if you make every effort; so do not sway too greatly and leave her as one hanging in a void. And if you reconcile and do right, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.

                                        Here you is plural, that is why plural women is used; "women" does not refer to "wives" of one person, but to "wives" of married men as a whole. 4129 is not about polygamy but is about women's rights. The context is wife fearing desertion from her husband when marriage is not working out. It is a statement of fact that it is not possible for all men to be completely fair with all women in that context, but even if marriage is not working out and husband is thinking of divorcing his wife, she should not be left "hanging" by swaying too greatly from her, i.e. her rights as a wife should still be fulfilled. In brief the women here are not one man's wives.

                                        I have not studied all the laws of inheritance yet, but is there not a single possibility left out? What about the possibility of writing wills which is very strongly advised?

                                        God is never forgetful. In the inheritance verses, there is no mention that if a man has two wives/spouses or more, they share a quarter or any other portion. The portion of the daughters if there are two or more (and no sons) is two-thirds (411), after legacies or debts. When there is no ascendants or descendants, the brothers and sisters share in a third if they are more than two, after legacies or debts. If there are no children, the spouse inherits the quarter of the husbands? inheritance, after legacies or debts (412). Verse 412 only makes concise perfect sense when there is no polygamy, otherwise if a man has 4 wives, it is not clear if each wife gets a quarter or a sixteenth or any other portion, after legacies or debts, unless we rely on other sources for inheritance rules.

                                        Why did God mention portion of two or more daughters, and two or more brothers and sisters, but did not mention portion of two or more wives ??

                                        All this is AFTER a will is carried out. I agree that two or more wives can be addressed in a will, but AFTER a will is carried out, other scenarios are discussed by God but TWO OR MORE WIVES SCENARIO IS NOT DISCUSSED. Why is that ?

                                        As for why only marry off? I would like to know why it stops at 4? Why not many more? Wouldn't that make more sense?

                                        I think "two's, three's, and four's" is an idiom for "by groups".

                                        It does not stop at four, but at four's. It DOES NOT say "two, three, four" but says "two's, three's, and four's" meaning "group of two or two at a time, group of three or three at a time, group of four or four at a time". If it is "marry" instead of "marry off" in 43, does it make sense to marry four women in a group or four women at the same time ?

                                        One must accept that nobody marries two three or four wives at the same time! But that?s exactly what it means if we take "ankuhu" as "marry" instead of "marry off".

                                        Secondly, I discussed this with bro Ayman a year back. He raised some good points which I would like to quote here

                                        Let's see the translation of 43 by translating as "marry off"

                                        43 And if you fear you can't do justice to the orphans, then marry off the women (orphans) who have agreed with you two's, three's and four's. But if you fear that you will be unfair then (marry off) by one or what your oath/right hand possessed as this is better than getting into hardship.

                                        This translation is not forced to assume that orphans and women are the same entity. The advice for marrying off is for the women orphans only because husbands are the providers for the wives, and by marrying off the women orphans, they are guaranteed provision and protection by their husbands, thereby easing the hardship and burden from the guardian.

                                        4127 And they ask you judgement about women. Say God will instruct you about them and you will also read in the book concerning the orphaned women to which you intend to deny what has been ordained to them and wish to marry them off, as well as to regard the vulnerable children, that you should be just in the matter of orphans. God knows whatever good you do.

                                        Verse 4127 is again about marrying off the orphaned women and not marrying them. "yatama al-nisai" here is not "orphan's of the women" but means "orphaned women" or "women orphans".

                                        There are plenty of verses that deal with marriage, marrying an orphan is no different from marrying any other woman.

                                        Obviously what you give to the orphans is what is ordained/recorded for them through inheritance and not dowers (in verses 42-6 and 4127).

                                        The vulnerable children are simply orphans (male and female) who have not reached maturity or a marriageable age yet in opposite to orphaned women (verses 43 and 4127).

                                        In the verse above 4127, God tells us that we will find in the book the mention of the orphaned woman with regard marrying them off and with regard to their inheritance, this is only found in the initial verses of Chapter 4(43-4).

                                        The addressed (audience) and their role in verse 4127 are consistent Carers responsible for the orphans and their financial affairs rather than carers and potential husbands at the same time (with "marry" and "dowers" interpretation).

                                        Peace and regards

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                                          mquran
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                                          TanveerIf according to the faulty logic presented by mquran, polygamy is allowed because there is no verse making it haram in al-qur'aan, then by the same faulty logic, polyandry (more than one husband at the same time) should be allowed also because there is no verse making it haram in al-qur'aan either. Extending the same faulty logic, marrying 3 or more sisters at a time would be allowed because 423 forbids marrying ONLY 2 sisters at a time

                                          Tanveer, before anything, allow me to tell you how my logic can be faulty. If you produced a verse which contradicted my assertion, then yes my logic is faulty. If you found fault with my deduction (the quran is in detail, it doesnt prohibit polygamy), then yes again.

                                          What you described above isn't 'faulty logic' but 'an offense to Tanveer's sensibilities' which I don't mind telling you isn't my furqaan. Al-quraan doesnt prohibit polygamy, whether polygyny or polyandry. Are you offended by this? Gotta take it up with the author, not me.

                                          As for marrying 3 or more sisters, I'd like to ask you, when you marry 3 sisters, have you married 2 sisters? Is it possible for you to marry 3 sisters without first marrying the first two? Then when you've married the first two, if you're a believer, the marriage isn't valid.

                                          The only exception to this general rule is that for Prophet Muhammad, who was allowed polygamy only as a special privilege given to him and not to all believers

                                          That's rather sneaky of you to chop up verses like that, Tanveer? Surely your personal prejudices can't be that compelling, can it? Its funny how you were so insistent on 4/23 but don't mind chopping this verse up.

                                          I think the reason Allah allowed polygamy to Prophet Muhammad is mentioned in the following verse, in the blue part

                                          Then the address would be 'zawjan nabi' not 'AZWAAJUN nabi'. More than two wives..

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