The Message - Update

Layth

Peace all,

At the suggestion of Wakas, some amendments will take place on The Message (specifically refering to the issue of Salat and to drop the term contact-method and replace it with bond which is more encompassing).

As such, I am creating this thread which will last for about 7-10 days so that people may share their views on any changes or corrections that need to be made to the existing copy of The Message.

You can read the specific chapters/verses through the following

http//www.free-minds.org/quran/

Or, alternatively, the full file (Microsft Word) can be downloaded by clicking the following link

http//www.free-minds.org/QT.zip (save first, then open)

unknownuser

Peace
Perhaps this is a simple or trivial question to you but I'd like an answer because I don't know - so no need to bite my head off. How is the term 'bond' more encompassing than 'contact-method'? Or is it just more general?

Elke

Peace s2s

my 2 pence

contact method would be "on" only when you "contact" - through prayers or whatever

bond is something that exists all the time - all your actions, all your life evolves around this bond

now for sure layth might have better explanation - reason

elke

arnoldyasin

Peace,

I myself believe that salat has different meanings throughout the Quran which depends on the context. So personally i don't agree with contact-method or bond as meaning for every salaat in the Quran.

wildguest1956

Peace,

I myself believe that salat has different meanings throughout the Quran which depends on the context. So personally i don't agree with contact-method or bond as meaning for every salaat in the Quran.

Like you, I don't agree with the one word - one meaning methodology.
The verb daraba is a good example of how a simple word can have multiple meanings depending of the context.

Peace

Wakas

peace Layth,

I would change the following

"bonds/commitments of the messenger" in 999 as its plural.

"your bond" in 9103.

verb "turned towards" in 7531, especially if one translates the opposing comparison as "turned away" in 7532. Seems past tense.

and "turns towards / bonds" in 8715

"whilst he was bonding" in 339. It is am imperfect verb, i.e. an action in the process of being done.

"do not turn towards" in 984

And the translation of chapter 107 needs changing, specifically the bold parts

Have you seen/considered him who is denying in the system/obligation?
It is the one who mistreats/repels the orphan,
And does not encourage the feeding of the poor/needy.
So woe to the ones who go/turn towards,
But of their bond are unaware/heedless.
They only want to be seen,
And withold the far-reaching deeds.

Thanks.

unknownuser

peace all

why not just translate it "prayer"??

Wakas

peace,

why not just translate it "prayer"??

Most here are of the opinion "prayer" does not fit.

I suggest studying the "salat & zakat" section on this forum.

unknownuser

Salaam all,

I agree with arnoldyasin and /JM/ on this issue.

Also, I think the numbering of verses should be reinstated as before. With all due respect as to how and why you have come to your conclusions on the verse numberings and order, it is still an inescapable fact that those who claim to follow the qur'an are familiar with the standard verse numbering, and thus, makes for much more conveniant referencing when having discussions with others about the qur'an and it's verses.

My 2 cents.

Salaam,
Damon.

Tay

Peace Layth, All,

My opinion on this matter probably carries the least weight since I'm still quite torn on the understanding. My one cent then how about not translating it at all. Just leave it as "salat" and save yourself the pressure of trying to encapsulate the term into one word, and also save the reader from preconception. Perhaps a disclaimer in the foreword outlining all the possible meanings, encouraging the reader to use the Qur'anic method of tasreef and context in understanding how the term may apply.

Peace,
Tay

Al_Khidr

As Salaamu Alaykum

Can anybody here who is directly involved with the Progressive Muslims organization provide myself with a list of names of the ones who are responsible for translating the Qur'aan for the Progressive Muslims?

Salaam

adley

Salaam Layth,

I just skimmed the new translation. Well, the first thing to be noticed is the difference in the introductory essays. Especially in the section where it is listed what the quran is, any reason why you took out the one that talks about revealed by a higher power?

The next one is the numbering of ayats. I second to Damon in this one. Perhaps it will be easier for us and people who are interested in learning the quran to have a translation whose numbering follows the one used most. I know this does not mean that the popular numbering is the most correct; it's easier that's all.

Also, I agree with Tay on the issue of shalat. Just leave it untranslated, so the readers are free to draw their own conclusions about this concept. Perhaps zakat, haj, and a few others as well.

Just my Rp 2 ;D

=adley=

stoked_youth

Peace,

Awesome! yay I like the word Bond more than contact-method just because the word contact-method is a bit too awkward in my opinion.
I've checked those verses mentioned by Wakas, and I agree that those translations actually sound better and fit the context better also.

Peace and Kia Ora

Wakas

Leaving it as "salat" is not an option I would consider.

wildguest1956

Leaving it as "salat" is not an option I would consider.

Why is the word jinn left untranslated ?

adley

Salaam /JM/,

You raise an interesting question and this is too, probably, a problem if we want to translate "Salat" but leave this one untranslated.

Even though I understand "Salat" as bond (among other meanings) I still think it will be a lot more fun for people to research this "Salat" issue themselves. D

I understand though that leaving it untranslated may cause confusion, especially to those who haven't read the quran at all before.

=adley=

zenje

Also, I think the numbering of verses should be reinstated as before. With all due respect as to how and why you have come to your conclusions on the verse numberings and order, it is still an inescapable fact that those who claim to follow the qur'an are familiar with the standard verse numbering, and thus, makes for much more conveniant referencing when having discussions with others about the qur'an and it's verses.

The next one is the numbering of ayats. I second to Damon in this one.

Me three! http//i28.photobucket.com/albums/c236/zenje/yes.gif

Wakas

Why is the word jinn left untranslated ?

Ask Layth, not me.

Al_Khidr

Leaving it as "salat" is not an option I would consider.

Salaam Wakas

I'm curious why wouldn't you consider leaving it as is in the Qur'aan which is "Salaat"?

I am finding it interesting how people are translating "Salaat" differently. The Progressive Muslim now changed it to "Bond" and Safar translates it as "the commitment"...

Salaam

Wakas

I'm curious why wouldn't you consider leaving it as is in the Qur'aan which is "Salaat"?

I do not consider it an option as a translation is just that, a translation. It is not a proper noun in 'al quran', so why the capital "S"?

I am finding it interesting how people are translating "Salaat" differently. The Progressive Muslim now changed it to "Bond" and Safar translates it as "the commitment"...

I strongly recommend you looking up any Classical Arabic dictionary and seeing what it says about "salat" and its root "sawd-lam-waw", and reflecting upon how they too have seemingly translated "salat" differently.