Translation of `Jinn`

unknownuser

Peace AB,

Salam bro

The story of the ants and the bird is simple if people would have looked a bit further. Since words have more then one meaning or background it is interesting what people choose sometimes, and have a distorted idea of a meaning. The arabic naml, means ants, BUT was also the name of a tribe in Syria,

Come on bro, I?m not discussing the Naml in here, I?m discussing the birds

even ibn Kathir who is so wrong on 80% of his explanations on the Quran, noted this fact. In his tafseer,

so I guess that was from the 20% he was right under your estimation?

he identifies, namlat, the lady of Naml, as belonging to the tribe of Banu Shisan. So it is the tribe that was scared of Solomon's army, which is more logical.

irrelevant bro, we are discussing the birds

Also on the story of the 'bird' that comes in the verses after that, the arabic word hud-hud, means hoopoe,

Bro forgot what Hudhud means, did you see me picking on it or even used the English meaning?, I used it as is ?Hudhud? I don?t care if that Hudhud is a pigeon, an eagle or a hoopoe

What I care about is this, whatever the Hudhud is, it is 100% a bird according to 2720

Try to twist it and mention other creatures like the naml, the Hudhud is still a bird according to 2720

BUT again was also the name of a South Yemen tribe, and men were often named after their tribes as well as birds

Or really?, and this tribe existed during Solomon time?, far fetched bro, any verses from the Quran to support your allegations?

Plus the fact that the bird Hoopoe is not build for long flights.

Far out bro, well I guess the Hudhud kept resting every few miles, or what do you think?

Tair is commonly used for birds, but is also applied to winged beings,

Haha, that was funny bro

I guess birds = winged beings

yet tayyar means fleet-flooted horse,

oh yeh, I guess because horses can fly?

and at-tairan is metaphorically used for marching to jihad.

LOL, never heard of it bro

When Solomon says that they had been taught the language of tair, he uses the word mantiq which is used for HUMAN speech,

What was that bro?

and man alone of all created beings is called haivani-natiq, speaking animal, the language of birds is called saut.

LOL. Sorry bro that was really funny and I just have nothing to say but laugh

The intention behind the use of tair, as of jinn cannot be disregarded. The Tair were a conquered tribe or race and David and Solomon had knowledge of their language. Similarly jinns applies here to the nomadic tribes many of whom were recruited by the king of Tyre for Solomon, see the Bible, chapter Kings 1,5. So they were called not seen ones, because they came from a land and people that were not seen normally. So it refers to where they come from, not the direct situation of if they were seen or not seen at that moment by Solomon and his people. And by thus refers to foreigner/stranger. So their country and people are jinn for Solomon and his people, making them called jinns. Hud-hud here is significant because it is known in old records that it was the name of a prince of Midian in the days of Solomon, and some records say he was even the brother of the queen of Sheba. In the Bible also there are references of several people carrying this name and are connected with Solomon.(see the name Hadud). It was by the hand of Hud-hud that brought the letter(kitab=writing to Sheba, and he was the one who brought the throne to Solomon.

Can?t waste more time for this paragraph bro, sorry

You can agree or disagree AB,

The option to agree with your non sense is out of the question

I only have one option to chose from which is to disagree with your non sense regarding 2720

but i'm researching the Quran which is my duty.

well, one of your duties is not to spread unfounded, non sensible conjectures regarding the Arabic Quran, and ironically Arabic is not your language, that say it all

If you condemn my conclusions,

Come on, it is the Quran who is condemning your cojectures that you associate to Allah words

then that is your opinion.

well I call it, this is my jihad

But the use of the word mantiq=human speech cannot be dismissed. I myself also get only information from the Quran alone. But sometimes words have more backgrounds, so it is important to investigate. I do not dismiss all hadith, but i'm carefull how to approach, just as i'm carefull how to approach any other source of history.

Show us the verses you talk about, let the Quran speak, so far in this comment you were the only one talking

As the Quran shows the true history, it is the furqan that purifies traditional approaches.

What was that?, oh yeh an emotional comment, pass on that towel Deen so your father wipes his tears

God can make us do anything of course, but throughout the Quran He says He will not brake His laws, so i'll always approach the stories with that background.
Peace

what laws that He can?t break exactly?

Salam

truth

... And he sought among the birds, what can I say bro, the word is ... Al Tair, do you know what that is in Arabic?, well it means The Birds, then Soloman said after he sought among THE BIRDS, and said How is it that I see not the Hudhud, or is it among the absent? , therefore Solomon didnt find the Hudhud within THE BIRDS

Ahmed,

"Al-Tair" is a word which is well known as a multiple meaning word. In the example verse that you give you entirely ignore the context and therefore pluck the wrong meaning for the word. In the end your translation becomes a nonsense one where Solomon is speaking to non-lingual animals!

The word 'tair' can mean variously a bird, a cavalry, swift animals, a company of men, quick witted person, a nation.

Now in the context of the verse and knowing from 3831 that Solomon owned and kept horses and had at his disposal an army; it stands to reason that the "al-tair" being mentioned in 2720 is actually a cavalry of men - ie. soldiers who fought on horseback.

2720 He inspected the cavalry, and noted "Why do I not see Al-Hudhud? Why is he missing?

He inspects his horsemen and finds one of them; an important one missing.

You may ask about 2716...

2716 Solomon was David's heir. He said, "O people, we have been endowed with understanding the speech of the cavalrymen, and all kinds of things have been bestowed upon us. This is indeed a real blessing."

Wawaritha sulaymanu dawooda waqala ya ayyuha alnnasu AAullimna mantiqa alttayri waooteena min kulli shay-in inna hatha lahuwa alfadlu almubeenu

We don't know whether the cavalry was of the same race or nation as Solomon but he obviously knows the language of these men. It's likely that he also knows military language and terminology. The jargon and language of military men is necessary for a leader of soldiers.

So again, the whole issue can be demystified without resorting to nonsense interpretations which call for a suspension of logic and reality which the Arab mind seems very eager and willing to do. Gives a new meaning to bird-brained

Regards.

arnoldyasin

Peace,

AB, your answers shows you cannot answer them. Mantiq is only used with human speech.This directly refers that the Tair are humans, not birds. And that HudHud(which means Hoepoe) cannot be a bird, as Solomon wasn't thaught saut=language of birds, but he was thaught the mantiq=humanspeech of the Tair=which then can only be humans. 1+1=2....

arnoldyasin

Peace,

Nabster you say this
The fact of the matter, Allah does break the Laws of Nature occasionally when He wants to make a point to His faithful Servants. As for the disbelievers, Sign or no Sign, they will not believe.

While God says this
Allah does all things according to His Laws (340,199) You will never find Allah?s Laws changing or deviating (634, 6116, 1064, 1777, 1827, 3338, 3362, 3543, 4085, 4823)

Your words is not what God says Himself...

And about Jesus, please read this
The healings of Jesus are meant metaphorically. Like the words used in 349, the word is abras, one suffering from lukoderma, a diseas that discolours the skin, and not judham, leprosy. Propably under evangelical influences did it got confused with leprosy. Metaphorically, however, it means, to have ones misfortune added to another. Ibn Faris says that al-biras means, barren portions of the desert, whence the metaphorical meaning of misfortune, so Jesus cured misfortunes by teaching people the truth. The Quran compares moral crimes to diseases, and calls those guilty of them, deaf, dumb and blind, as in 218 and diseased of the heart in 210 and even dead as in 2780, that is why the scripture, which is the Truth, is called a healing in 4144. It is again, showen that people distorte the metaphorical meanings, and don't take the Quran as its guide how the read things. That Jesus his healings were taken literally is of course through evangelical influences. The only Gospel that is in the so-calles Gospels, are Jesus his words, not his deeds, and by thus are the recordings not to be used for understanding and explaining the Quran, but the Quran must be used to explain the Gospel and Jesus's history. When using cross-reference(tasreef), the Quran explains itself. Only the gullible mind will resort to unlogical answers as the human is addicted to fantasies. God will not change His laws....

Sorry for the off-topic....

As for the mantiq, check the ancient dictionaries. Plus, then you say Solomon was thaught the logic?(mantiq) of the Tair?

Peace

arnoldyasin

peace,

I believe your approach is taking things out of context. But everybody is on their own level. You think signs are miracles, but there are more things that can be taken as signs. I have seen signs in my life, and they didn't went against the laws of nature, but for sure they were signs. As for the arabic. You cannot use modern arabic for this discussion. The Quran is given in the Quraish dialect. Modern arabic is distorted through herbrew, persian and araimic and old forced meanings. So it cannot be used in this discussion. Please get some ancient dictionaries before you mix up more meanings...

unknownuser

But the use of the word mantiq=human speech cannot be dismissed. I myself also get only information from the Quran alone.

When Solomon says that they had been taught the language of tair, he uses the word mantiq which is used for HUMAN speech, and man alone of all created beings is called haivani-natiq, speaking animal, the language of birds is called saut.

Let?s look at brother Arnold comment above

He says

But the use of the word mantiq=human speech cannot be dismissed,

Ahmed says

Brother Arnold thinks that the Manitiq is only used for humans while Saut is the language of birds, the fact of the matter is Saut is not specific to any thing rather to all things, any thing that makes voice or sound is called making saut, this is ridiculous by Arnold

Well let?s see how the Quran used the word ?Na Ta Qa?

Abraham is using it with the stones

He said Surely (some doer) has done it; the chief of them is this, therefore ask them, if they can speak.

(63)

91- Then he turned aside to their gods secretly and said What! do you not eat?

92- What is the matter with you that you do not speak?

(91)
(92)

Abraham?s people confirming that the stones don?t speak, however the word ?Yantiq? is still used with the stones ?NOT WITH HUMANS?

Then they were made to hang down their heads Certainly you know that they do not speak.

(65)

Here is Allah is using the same word with a book

And We do not lay on any soul a burden except to the extent of its ability, and with Us is a book which speaks the truth, and they shall not be dealt with unjustly.

(62)

This is Our book that speaks against you with justice; surely We wrote what you did,

(29)

Here is a good one, the word is used with the Skin, as well everything that talks

And they shall say to their skins Why have you borne witness against us? They shall say Allah Who makes everything speak has made us speak, and He created you at first, and to Him you shall be brought back.

(21)

-> Can you read ?Antaqa Kul Shai??, ?Who makes everything speak has made us speak?, well, what can I say, Antaqa? was used with
?Kul Shai? that talks, i.e. the word ?Na Ta Qa? can be used with humans or not

Finally to prove that brother Arnold does not know what he is talking about, I will show everyone that the word Saut that he says is for the birds, is used in the Quran with humans and other things like the donkey for example

Can somebody shoot me please? Well, you can do it right here]

Salam

unknownuser

Peace,

AB, your answers shows you cannot answer them. Mantiq is only used with human speech.This directly refers that the Tair are humans, not birds. And that HudHud(which means Hoepoe) cannot be a bird, as Solomon wasn't thaught saut=language of birds, but he was thaught the mantiq=humanspeech of the Tair=which then can only be humans. 1+1=2....

Peace

Respond to 4121 then

Antaqa Kul Shai

the verse never said Antaqa Human only

now 1+1= 2

you want 1+1=3, then I will accept it if you can bloody prove it

Salam

unknownuser

PPS In my arabic philosophy class I was taught Mantiq being Logic...

True bro it means "Speaking/Talking" or "Logic", it is actually a subject called "Mantiq"/"Logic" that is taught at Arabic univercities

Salam

unknownuser

Salam Alaykum Brother AhmedBahgat
Thanks for reminding me of the root meaning of the word Nataqa, there was misunderstanding between me and arnoldyasin.
And thank you to see someone defending the truth. And I am amzed at your patience. I am tired with this discussion, as they say I do not have the patience (or the wisdom) of a prophet.
God bless
Nabster

Salam bro

this is the duty that muslims should do which is fighting those who shows the book of Allah as a book of non sense that even a human would have wrote a smarter book than the amazing Quran

no tricks here bro, you will always see it 1+1=2

take care

unknownuser

As I promised,

here is a verse where variations of ?Sa Wa Ta? are used 3 times

And pursue the right course in your going about and lower your voice; surely the most hateful of voices is braying of the asses.

(19)

-> Firstly the humans have been advised to , ? and lower your voice?, obviously the word Saut is used with humans, then the verse is telling us to , ? surely the most hateful of voices?, the word Aswat is used in general here, it indicates everything that makes a voice ?human or not?, and that most hatful voice is , ? is braying of the asses?, see, the word Saut is used with an animal, let?s recap 3119 regarding the word saut

It is used with humans
It is used with everything that makes a voice
It is used with a donkey

See, as I told you,, brother Arnold does not know what he is talking about regarding the Arabic words he mentioned

Salam

arnoldyasin

Peace,

AB, that is the answer is was looking for, please time next answer like this instead of with laughter. I will investigate it further, thank you. And Nabster, there are to many things about jinn that cannot be answered with just saying, oh they are energy beings. We are all on their own level. I try the best approaches. AB, finaly gave the good answer and corrected me.

unknownuser

Peace,

AB, that is the answer is was looking for, please time next answer like this instead of with laughter. I will investigate it further, thank you. And Nabster, there are to many things about jinn that cannot be answered with just saying, oh they are energy beings. We are all on their own level. I try the best approaches. AB, finaly gave the good answer and corrected me.

Brother Arnold

I appreciate your understanding to the truth, but regarding my laughter, well i'm trying not to make it boring to be honest otherwise I will be out of here sooner than later, i get bored quickly bro and only my style that keeps me going hence i can't drop it, why I have to be another person who is not me?

Salam

arnoldyasin

Peace,

AB, when i look at the words, i see that saut is always used as voice, not as meaning language. These are 2 different things. So indeed 4121 is a clue, i will not dismiss that. Isn't it true that only humans are called haivani-natiq, speaking creature? Also this still doesn't dismiss Tair being a tribe and HudHud being a human. I'm carefull with every approach.

truth

I have enough worries in my life than worry about jinns. As I am not worried about how many feathers a duck has, or how many species of insects there are, or how poisonous a snake is, only to be wise enough to keep away from it.

This is a personal decision and I would sum it up by saying that you're a "keep it simple and easy" kind of person. Others are more investigative. You may not wish to follow that path.

We have different desires and lines of interests (so Allah said in the Quran, "inna saayakum lashatta&quot, and investigating jinns is not one of them.
This is my declaration of humility.
I hope you find my above statements satisfying.
God bless
Nabster

No one is "investigating jinns". We are investigating meanings. One camp is complacent and wishes to believe what their forefathers believe...

4322 Nay! they say "We found our fathers following a certain way, and we do guide ourselves by their footsteps."
4323 Just in the same way, whenever We sent a Warner before thee to any people, the notable ones among them said "We found our fathers following a certain way, and we will certainly follow in their footsteps."
4324 He said "What! Even if I brought you better guidance than that which ye found your fathers following?" They said "For us, we deny that you are sent."

others use their God-given intellect to search for the truth.

1736 You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.

You know which you are, as do we all.

unknownuser

Peace,

AB, when i look at the words, i see that saut is always used as voice, not as meaning language. These are 2 different things. So indeed 4121 is a clue, i will not dismiss that. Isn't it true that only humans are called haivani-natiq, speaking creature? Also this still doesn't dismiss Tair being a tribe and HudHud being a human. I'm carefull with every approach.

Bro, I don't get what you mean by haivani-natiq, is that arabic words?, i can read the second but not the first, but I never heard that expression for humans

Salam

arnoldyasin

Peace,

I will re-check if i wrote it correctly, and then i will write it down in arabic.

unknownuser

I believe they exist because I believe in quran being the word of God. Plain and simple.

1736 You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.
That was for statements relative to legal implications, if the messenger was asked to investigate that idolatry was good he would have refused and rightly so...

Yep, that pretty much fixes everything up including 'Allah' without an Allah, so why even bother with HIS 1736.

unknownuser

Brother Peace to you too,
Each one of us get chances to acknowledge and appreciate that the Quran is the Truth from The God. As soon as we are enlightened, then the rest follows, no need to check anymore, otherwise it will be too much, we have limitations, the implications of the message, the treasures within it are immense, some of which maybe will never be understood...
I hear and I obey this is what the Universe says.
We can argue, but the bottom line is conviction, each one comes from different backgrounds, perspectives, cultures...
Salam
Nabster

So let me get this straight, you will accept everything blindly that is mentioned in the Quran simply because it is 'Allah's' words but neglect and disobey 1736 which you yourself quoted earlier? Am I correct?

unknownuser

Peace
No Brother Danish you are not correct. I will check things that are unsure. Things that are established facts, no need to check. Things brought to my attention by third parties I will check, starting against the Quran as guidance. Things Allah clearly stipulated in the Quran are not included particularly the ones to do with the Unseen, these are the ones I was referring to...
God bless
Nabster

You believe the Quran is the word of 'Allah', plain and simple and no other information supercedes it. So what's the point of 1736 in the first place regardless of what people bring about? That is not only a circular reasoning but a moot one at best. Are you even familiar with who and what 'Allah' is, the concept of GOD and why I believe that the Quran is NOT and CANNOT be the words of GOD. Anyhow, this is a different subject matter altogether and I shall be happy to discuss this in its appropriate thread/section. But for now, I can see that you are quite naive.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Brothers,

Thank you for bringing peace back to the thread. Lets stick to showing the proofs and providing the reason that will make this message effective for everyday life, not some fairytales of the past that we must just swallow without digestion.