Translation of `Jinn`
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Peace,
AB, your answers shows you cannot answer them. Mantiq is only used with human speech.This directly refers that the Tair are humans, not birds. And that HudHud(which means Hoepoe) cannot be a bird, as Solomon wasn't thaught saut=language of birds, but he was thaught the mantiq=humanspeech of the Tair=which then can only be humans. 1+1=2....
Peace
Respond to 4121 then
Antaqa Kul Shai
the verse never said Antaqa Human only
now 1+1= 2
you want 1+1=3, then I will accept it if you can bloody prove it
Salam
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PPS In my arabic philosophy class I was taught Mantiq being Logic...
True bro it means "Speaking/Talking" or "Logic", it is actually a subject called "Mantiq"/"Logic" that is taught at Arabic univercities
Salam
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Salam Alaykum Brother AhmedBahgat
Thanks for reminding me of the root meaning of the word Nataqa, there was misunderstanding between me and arnoldyasin.
And thank you to see someone defending the truth. And I am amzed at your patience. I am tired with this discussion, as they say I do not have the patience (or the wisdom) of a prophet.
God bless
NabsterSalam bro
this is the duty that muslims should do which is fighting those who shows the book of Allah as a book of non sense that even a human would have wrote a smarter book than the amazing Quran
no tricks here bro, you will always see it 1+1=2
take care
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As I promised,
here is a verse where variations of ?Sa Wa Ta? are used 3 times
And pursue the right course in your going about and lower your voice; surely the most hateful of voices is braying of the asses.
(19)
-> Firstly the humans have been advised to , ? and lower your voice?, obviously the word Saut is used with humans, then the verse is telling us to , ? surely the most hateful of voices?, the word Aswat is used in general here, it indicates everything that makes a voice ?human or not?, and that most hatful voice is , ? is braying of the asses?, see, the word Saut is used with an animal, let?s recap 3119 regarding the word saut
- It is used with humans
- It is used with everything that makes a voice
- It is used with a donkey
See, as I told you,, brother Arnold does not know what he is talking about regarding the Arabic words he mentioned
Salam
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Peace,
AB, that is the answer is was looking for, please time next answer like this instead of with laughter. I will investigate it further, thank you. And Nabster, there are to many things about jinn that cannot be answered with just saying, oh they are energy beings. We are all on their own level. I try the best approaches. AB, finaly gave the good answer and corrected me.
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Peace,
AB, that is the answer is was looking for, please time next answer like this instead of with laughter. I will investigate it further, thank you. And Nabster, there are to many things about jinn that cannot be answered with just saying, oh they are energy beings. We are all on their own level. I try the best approaches. AB, finaly gave the good answer and corrected me.
Brother Arnold
I appreciate your understanding to the truth, but regarding my laughter, well i'm trying not to make it boring to be honest otherwise I will be out of here sooner than later, i get bored quickly bro and only my style that keeps me going hence i can't drop it, why I have to be another person who is not me?
Salam
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Peace,
AB, when i look at the words, i see that saut is always used as voice, not as meaning language. These are 2 different things. So indeed 4121 is a clue, i will not dismiss that. Isn't it true that only humans are called haivani-natiq, speaking creature? Also this still doesn't dismiss Tair being a tribe and HudHud being a human. I'm carefull with every approach.
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I have enough worries in my life than worry about jinns. As I am not worried about how many feathers a duck has, or how many species of insects there are, or how poisonous a snake is, only to be wise enough to keep away from it.
This is a personal decision and I would sum it up by saying that you're a "keep it simple and easy" kind of person. Others are more investigative. You may not wish to follow that path.
We have different desires and lines of interests (so Allah said in the Quran, "inna saayakum lashatta", and investigating jinns is not one of them.
This is my declaration of humility.
I hope you find my above statements satisfying.
God bless
NabsterNo one is "investigating jinns". We are investigating meanings. One camp is complacent and wishes to believe what their forefathers believe...
4322 Nay! they say "We found our fathers following a certain way, and we do guide ourselves by their footsteps."
4323 Just in the same way, whenever We sent a Warner before thee to any people, the notable ones among them said "We found our fathers following a certain way, and we will certainly follow in their footsteps."
4324 He said "What! Even if I brought you better guidance than that which ye found your fathers following?" They said "For us, we deny that you are sent."others use their God-given intellect to search for the truth.
1736 You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.
You know which you are, as do we all.
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Peace,
AB, when i look at the words, i see that saut is always used as voice, not as meaning language. These are 2 different things. So indeed 4121 is a clue, i will not dismiss that. Isn't it true that only humans are called haivani-natiq, speaking creature? Also this still doesn't dismiss Tair being a tribe and HudHud being a human. I'm carefull with every approach.
Bro, I don't get what you mean by haivani-natiq, is that arabic words?, i can read the second but not the first, but I never heard that expression for humans
Salam
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Peace,
I will re-check if i wrote it correctly, and then i will write it down in arabic.
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I believe they exist because I believe in quran being the word of God. Plain and simple.
1736 You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.
That was for statements relative to legal implications, if the messenger was asked to investigate that idolatry was good he would have refused and rightly so...Yep, that pretty much fixes everything up including 'Allah' without an Allah, so why even bother with HIS 1736.
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Brother Peace to you too,
Each one of us get chances to acknowledge and appreciate that the Quran is the Truth from The God. As soon as we are enlightened, then the rest follows, no need to check anymore, otherwise it will be too much, we have limitations, the implications of the message, the treasures within it are immense, some of which maybe will never be understood...
I hear and I obey this is what the Universe says.
We can argue, but the bottom line is conviction, each one comes from different backgrounds, perspectives, cultures...
Salam
NabsterSo let me get this straight, you will accept everything blindly that is mentioned in the Quran simply because it is 'Allah's' words but neglect and disobey 1736 which you yourself quoted earlier? Am I correct?
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Peace
No Brother Danish you are not correct. I will check things that are unsure. Things that are established facts, no need to check. Things brought to my attention by third parties I will check, starting against the Quran as guidance. Things Allah clearly stipulated in the Quran are not included particularly the ones to do with the Unseen, these are the ones I was referring to...
God bless
NabsterYou believe the Quran is the word of 'Allah', plain and simple and no other information supercedes it. So what's the point of 1736 in the first place regardless of what people bring about? That is not only a circular reasoning but a moot one at best. Are you even familiar with who and what 'Allah' is, the concept of GOD and why I believe that the Quran is NOT and CANNOT be the words of GOD. Anyhow, this is a different subject matter altogether and I shall be happy to discuss this in its appropriate thread/section. But for now, I can see that you are quite naive.
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Peace be upon you Brothers,
Thank you for bringing peace back to the thread. Lets stick to showing the proofs and providing the reason that will make this message effective for everyday life, not some fairytales of the past that we must just swallow without digestion.
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Peace
Bro Danish you have your Diin and I have mine...
Assalamualaikum
NabsterThe natural and realistic system and laws of life are for all living creatures and not boxed and locked up for only 'Muslims' in strict regulated and offen violent ancient dogmatic pagan dependency ordained by an 'Allah' at kaba. You need to understand why the Arabs have forbidden scientists for centuries from any archeological exercises in and around Mecca/Medina and its vicinity, so much so, that if the guardians find out any non-Muslim at Kaba, he/she is to subjected to immediated deportation, corporal punishment and even death.
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Peace Bro
Who cares about the Saudis, the Arabs whom Allah has described as the worst in disbelief and idolatry or their pagan customs. I am referring to the Quran as word of The God, if you do not accept that then you are not yet a Believer.
Salam
NabsterHmmm, Muhammad was an Arab, wasn't he? O0
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Peace,
Just as expected is mantiq almost only used for humans, and saut only used for animals, as saut refers to sound without direct meaning, as seen that saut always is translated as voice/sound coming out of something, and mantiq only with speech that has meaning.
NUTQ = Meaningful speech that is almost always human.
Exceptions
4121 And they will ask their skins, "Why did you testify against us?" They will say, "Allah has given us the power to speak as He has given speech to all things. For, He created you for the first time and unto Him you are brought back. (1713, 7514).
4529 ?This Our Record tells the truth about you. Behold, We arranged for all your doings to be meticulously recorded.
MANTIQ from NUTQ = Language = Logical speech.
SAUT = Animal voice or any sound.
So my explanation still stands firmly. But as Tair also refers to cavalery, it must be checked which fits best...I thought i made a mistake, but i see now that i haven't.
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Peace All,
2130 Do the unbelievers not realize that the heaven and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into existence? And from water we made all living things. Would they believe?
Awa lam yara allatheena kafaroo anna alssamawati waal-arda kanata ratqan fafataqnahuma wajaAAalna mina alma-i kulla shay-in hayyin afala yu/minoona
If you believe that "jinn" are living things then 2130 means they must be made of water. This is a bald fact. An inescapable reality.Very good point !
why it is good I wonder?
under that flawed point then the Quran has a contradiction because the Quran said humans were created from soil, now the above says everything alive is created from water
please resolve the contradiction Oben has hatched with his flawed pointI don't see any contradiction here. The Ayah clearly saysAnd from water we made all living things. Would they not believe?
"From" is "Min" in Arabic. It indicates meaning being part of something.
What is water? It is H2O.
The jinn are made from water because they can very well be made from Hyrogen only or Oxygen only, or combined with other elements. I would guess it is Hyrogen.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen
God says that jinn are created from Marijin min Naar.
The word Marij comes from the root Ma-Ra-Ja
This word or its derivatives appear in the following Ayat + + + +. -
Bro
The Quran speaks for itself.
Mohammed was a Messenger of Allah from the Ummyins, i.e. those who were not given a scripture before, he was an Arab, and he was intially rejected by the ones he preached to who included Christians, Jews, Idolaters and Others. Allah sent a prophet among the Arabs who were the worst in idolatry in the region. It is a miracle that ultimately they submitted, another potent Sign from the Most Wise.
Brother are you sure you are a Quran Alone person, it seems to me you are a troublemaker )
Nabster out
not sending you peace this timeI suggest you get back on track with this thread before it gets totally out of control, which is usually the case of people like you. My concerns about the Quran and my beliefs can be browsed at appropriate threads and borrowed for further discussion addressed to me, if you wish. Take you sweet and peaceful time. You have plenty of reading and studying to catch up to. Chow. )
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Peace Bro Arnoldyasin
4121 And they will ask their skins, "Why did you testify against us?" They will say, "Allah has given us the power to speak as He has given speech to all things. For, He created you for the first time and unto Him you are brought back. (1713, 7514).This same verse also says that... He has given speech to all things
From current arabic as I know it saut can also refer to the tone or tempo of a voice, and natq to language spoken.
Nabster
Peace,
I had the same thought, which explains the best understanding is that Tair refers to cavalery, which is one of it's neglected meanings.