Translation of `Jinn`

unknownuser

But the use of the word mantiq=human speech cannot be dismissed. I myself also get only information from the Quran alone.

When Solomon says that they had been taught the language of tair, he uses the word mantiq which is used for HUMAN speech, and man alone of all created beings is called haivani-natiq, speaking animal, the language of birds is called saut.

Let?s look at brother Arnold comment above

He says

But the use of the word mantiq=human speech cannot be dismissed,

Ahmed says

Brother Arnold thinks that the Manitiq is only used for humans while Saut is the language of birds, the fact of the matter is Saut is not specific to any thing rather to all things, any thing that makes voice or sound is called making saut, this is ridiculous by Arnold

Well let?s see how the Quran used the word ?Na Ta Qa?

Abraham is using it with the stones

He said Surely (some doer) has done it; the chief of them is this, therefore ask them, if they can speak.

(63)

91- Then he turned aside to their gods secretly and said What! do you not eat?

92- What is the matter with you that you do not speak?

(91)
(92)

Abraham?s people confirming that the stones don?t speak, however the word ?Yantiq? is still used with the stones ?NOT WITH HUMANS?

Then they were made to hang down their heads Certainly you know that they do not speak.

(65)

Here is Allah is using the same word with a book

And We do not lay on any soul a burden except to the extent of its ability, and with Us is a book which speaks the truth, and they shall not be dealt with unjustly.

(62)

This is Our book that speaks against you with justice; surely We wrote what you did,

(29)

Here is a good one, the word is used with the Skin, as well everything that talks

And they shall say to their skins Why have you borne witness against us? They shall say Allah Who makes everything speak has made us speak, and He created you at first, and to Him you shall be brought back.

(21)

-> Can you read ?Antaqa Kul Shai??, ?Who makes everything speak has made us speak?, well, what can I say, Antaqa? was used with
?Kul Shai? that talks, i.e. the word ?Na Ta Qa? can be used with humans or not

Finally to prove that brother Arnold does not know what he is talking about, I will show everyone that the word Saut that he says is for the birds, is used in the Quran with humans and other things like the donkey for example

Can somebody shoot me please? Well, you can do it right here]

Salam

unknownuser

Peace,

AB, your answers shows you cannot answer them. Mantiq is only used with human speech.This directly refers that the Tair are humans, not birds. And that HudHud(which means Hoepoe) cannot be a bird, as Solomon wasn't thaught saut=language of birds, but he was thaught the mantiq=humanspeech of the Tair=which then can only be humans. 1+1=2....

Peace

Respond to 4121 then

Antaqa Kul Shai

the verse never said Antaqa Human only

now 1+1= 2

you want 1+1=3, then I will accept it if you can bloody prove it

Salam

unknownuser

PPS In my arabic philosophy class I was taught Mantiq being Logic...

True bro it means "Speaking/Talking" or "Logic", it is actually a subject called "Mantiq"/"Logic" that is taught at Arabic univercities

Salam

unknownuser

Salam Alaykum Brother AhmedBahgat
Thanks for reminding me of the root meaning of the word Nataqa, there was misunderstanding between me and arnoldyasin.
And thank you to see someone defending the truth. And I am amzed at your patience. I am tired with this discussion, as they say I do not have the patience (or the wisdom) of a prophet.
God bless
Nabster

Salam bro

this is the duty that muslims should do which is fighting those who shows the book of Allah as a book of non sense that even a human would have wrote a smarter book than the amazing Quran

no tricks here bro, you will always see it 1+1=2

take care

unknownuser

As I promised,

here is a verse where variations of ?Sa Wa Ta? are used 3 times

And pursue the right course in your going about and lower your voice; surely the most hateful of voices is braying of the asses.

(19)

-> Firstly the humans have been advised to , ? and lower your voice?, obviously the word Saut is used with humans, then the verse is telling us to , ? surely the most hateful of voices?, the word Aswat is used in general here, it indicates everything that makes a voice ?human or not?, and that most hatful voice is , ? is braying of the asses?, see, the word Saut is used with an animal, let?s recap 3119 regarding the word saut

It is used with humans
It is used with everything that makes a voice
It is used with a donkey

See, as I told you,, brother Arnold does not know what he is talking about regarding the Arabic words he mentioned

Salam

arnoldyasin

Peace,

AB, that is the answer is was looking for, please time next answer like this instead of with laughter. I will investigate it further, thank you. And Nabster, there are to many things about jinn that cannot be answered with just saying, oh they are energy beings. We are all on their own level. I try the best approaches. AB, finaly gave the good answer and corrected me.

unknownuser

Peace,

AB, that is the answer is was looking for, please time next answer like this instead of with laughter. I will investigate it further, thank you. And Nabster, there are to many things about jinn that cannot be answered with just saying, oh they are energy beings. We are all on their own level. I try the best approaches. AB, finaly gave the good answer and corrected me.

Brother Arnold

I appreciate your understanding to the truth, but regarding my laughter, well i'm trying not to make it boring to be honest otherwise I will be out of here sooner than later, i get bored quickly bro and only my style that keeps me going hence i can't drop it, why I have to be another person who is not me?

Salam

arnoldyasin

Peace,

AB, when i look at the words, i see that saut is always used as voice, not as meaning language. These are 2 different things. So indeed 4121 is a clue, i will not dismiss that. Isn't it true that only humans are called haivani-natiq, speaking creature? Also this still doesn't dismiss Tair being a tribe and HudHud being a human. I'm carefull with every approach.

truth

I have enough worries in my life than worry about jinns. As I am not worried about how many feathers a duck has, or how many species of insects there are, or how poisonous a snake is, only to be wise enough to keep away from it.

This is a personal decision and I would sum it up by saying that you're a "keep it simple and easy" kind of person. Others are more investigative. You may not wish to follow that path.

We have different desires and lines of interests (so Allah said in the Quran, "inna saayakum lashatta&quot, and investigating jinns is not one of them.
This is my declaration of humility.
I hope you find my above statements satisfying.
God bless
Nabster

No one is "investigating jinns". We are investigating meanings. One camp is complacent and wishes to believe what their forefathers believe...

4322 Nay! they say "We found our fathers following a certain way, and we do guide ourselves by their footsteps."
4323 Just in the same way, whenever We sent a Warner before thee to any people, the notable ones among them said "We found our fathers following a certain way, and we will certainly follow in their footsteps."
4324 He said "What! Even if I brought you better guidance than that which ye found your fathers following?" They said "For us, we deny that you are sent."

others use their God-given intellect to search for the truth.

1736 You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.

You know which you are, as do we all.

unknownuser

Peace,

AB, when i look at the words, i see that saut is always used as voice, not as meaning language. These are 2 different things. So indeed 4121 is a clue, i will not dismiss that. Isn't it true that only humans are called haivani-natiq, speaking creature? Also this still doesn't dismiss Tair being a tribe and HudHud being a human. I'm carefull with every approach.

Bro, I don't get what you mean by haivani-natiq, is that arabic words?, i can read the second but not the first, but I never heard that expression for humans

Salam

arnoldyasin

Peace,

I will re-check if i wrote it correctly, and then i will write it down in arabic.

unknownuser

I believe they exist because I believe in quran being the word of God. Plain and simple.

1736 You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.
That was for statements relative to legal implications, if the messenger was asked to investigate that idolatry was good he would have refused and rightly so...

Yep, that pretty much fixes everything up including 'Allah' without an Allah, so why even bother with HIS 1736.

unknownuser

Brother Peace to you too,
Each one of us get chances to acknowledge and appreciate that the Quran is the Truth from The God. As soon as we are enlightened, then the rest follows, no need to check anymore, otherwise it will be too much, we have limitations, the implications of the message, the treasures within it are immense, some of which maybe will never be understood...
I hear and I obey this is what the Universe says.
We can argue, but the bottom line is conviction, each one comes from different backgrounds, perspectives, cultures...
Salam
Nabster

So let me get this straight, you will accept everything blindly that is mentioned in the Quran simply because it is 'Allah's' words but neglect and disobey 1736 which you yourself quoted earlier? Am I correct?

unknownuser

Peace
No Brother Danish you are not correct. I will check things that are unsure. Things that are established facts, no need to check. Things brought to my attention by third parties I will check, starting against the Quran as guidance. Things Allah clearly stipulated in the Quran are not included particularly the ones to do with the Unseen, these are the ones I was referring to...
God bless
Nabster

You believe the Quran is the word of 'Allah', plain and simple and no other information supercedes it. So what's the point of 1736 in the first place regardless of what people bring about? That is not only a circular reasoning but a moot one at best. Are you even familiar with who and what 'Allah' is, the concept of GOD and why I believe that the Quran is NOT and CANNOT be the words of GOD. Anyhow, this is a different subject matter altogether and I shall be happy to discuss this in its appropriate thread/section. But for now, I can see that you are quite naive.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Brothers,

Thank you for bringing peace back to the thread. Lets stick to showing the proofs and providing the reason that will make this message effective for everyday life, not some fairytales of the past that we must just swallow without digestion.

unknownuser

Peace
Bro Danish you have your Diin and I have mine...
Assalamualaikum
Nabster

The natural and realistic system and laws of life are for all living creatures and not boxed and locked up for only 'Muslims' in strict regulated and offen violent ancient dogmatic pagan dependency ordained by an 'Allah' at kaba. You need to understand why the Arabs have forbidden scientists for centuries from any archeological exercises in and around Mecca/Medina and its vicinity, so much so, that if the guardians find out any non-Muslim at Kaba, he/she is to subjected to immediated deportation, corporal punishment and even death.

unknownuser

Peace Bro
Who cares about the Saudis, the Arabs whom Allah has described as the worst in disbelief and idolatry or their pagan customs. I am referring to the Quran as word of The God, if you do not accept that then you are not yet a Believer.
Salam
Nabster

Hmmm, Muhammad was an Arab, wasn't he? O0

arnoldyasin

Peace,

Just as expected is mantiq almost only used for humans, and saut only used for animals, as saut refers to sound without direct meaning, as seen that saut always is translated as voice/sound coming out of something, and mantiq only with speech that has meaning.

NUTQ = Meaningful speech that is almost always human.

Exceptions

4121 And they will ask their skins, "Why did you testify against us?" They will say, "Allah has given us the power to speak as He has given speech to all things. For, He created you for the first time and unto Him you are brought back. (1713, 7514).

4529 ?This Our Record tells the truth about you. Behold, We arranged for all your doings to be meticulously recorded.

MANTIQ from NUTQ = Language = Logical speech.

SAUT = Animal voice or any sound.

So my explanation still stands firmly. But as Tair also refers to cavalery, it must be checked which fits best...I thought i made a mistake, but i see now that i haven't.

TAJ

Peace All,

2130 Do the unbelievers not realize that the heaven and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into existence? And from water we made all living things. Would they believe?
Awa lam yara allatheena kafaroo anna alssamawati waal-arda kanata ratqan fafataqnahuma wajaAAalna mina alma-i kulla shay-in hayyin afala yu/minoona
If you believe that "jinn" are living things then 2130 means they must be made of water. This is a bald fact. An inescapable reality.

Very good point !

why it is good I wonder?
under that flawed point then the Quran has a contradiction because the Quran said humans were created from soil, now the above says everything alive is created from water
please resolve the contradiction Oben has hatched with his flawed point

I don't see any contradiction here. The Ayah clearly saysAnd from water we made all living things. Would they not believe?
"From" is "Min" in Arabic. It indicates meaning being part of something.
What is water? It is H2O.
The jinn are made from water because they can very well be made from Hyrogen only or Oxygen only, or combined with other elements. I would guess it is Hyrogen.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen
God says that jinn are created from Marijin min Naar.
The word Marij comes from the root Ma-Ra-Ja
This word or its derivatives appear in the following Ayat + + + +.

unknownuser

Bro
The Quran speaks for itself.
Mohammed was a Messenger of Allah from the Ummyins, i.e. those who were not given a scripture before, he was an Arab, and he was intially rejected by the ones he preached to who included Christians, Jews, Idolaters and Others. Allah sent a prophet among the Arabs who were the worst in idolatry in the region. It is a miracle that ultimately they submitted, another potent Sign from the Most Wise.
Brother are you sure you are a Quran Alone person, it seems to me you are a troublemaker )
Nabster out
not sending you peace this time

I suggest you get back on track with this thread before it gets totally out of control, which is usually the case of people like you. My concerns about the Quran and my beliefs can be browsed at appropriate threads and borrowed for further discussion addressed to me, if you wish. Take you sweet and peaceful time. You have plenty of reading and studying to catch up to. Chow. )