Thinking Wrong!
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Peace be upon you,
Or the record, I dont like "sin" either, but If thats the term I need for the group I am talking to (obviously not this group), then I use it as best I can. )
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As salamu alaykum.
Respectfully.I'm truly sorry for opening this specific item but what, if the person thinks about fornication in his mind? I mean, i did read all of thes eposts but if thinking of a sin is a sin itself and if therefore we are going to be punished for that sinful thought or sinful thinking, would i be correct, if i said that we will be rewarded, if we kept good thoughts and started thinking how we will help someone?
Example if i imagine that i'm helping someone or that i grow a wish in my heart to help someone or that i plan to help somone, will i be rewarded for that thought?
Thanks.
As salamu alaykum. jedi -
Peace,
Your deeds come from your thoughts. I think you still hold on to the persian myth of hell and heaven. The idea of doing something 'wrong' is connected if it can help you grow or not. If you think about adultery, it is not a 'sin', but does it help you? Does it benefit you? If it does not, then you have waisted the precious gift God has given you. You will not be punished for it, as you 'punished' yourself already by waisting the gift.
It all has to do with if it benefits you or society, that is what the Quran is about, all of God's laws are about.
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peace arnold
you might need to create a new thread and expand on that heaven/hell myth, i am curious
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Peace,
Can i comment on the word 'sin'? For one, there are unlimited philosophical discussions on the word sin, but to understand the word ithm(arabic mostly trandslated as 'sin', you have to look at the context and the different ancient arabic meanings, and it means something that is harmfull for society or individuals. Which i prefer as meaning. Pork is forbidden because it is harmfull, aduletry is forbidden because it is harmfull and so on, the term sin is a religious term which doesn't hold water when using the Quran and logic...
Hello Arnold,
You like playing with the words, heres one for you; 'Pork is forbidden because it is harmfull'
Prove it, it is harmful
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Peace,
I have studied Biochemistry myself, and i know healthspecialist who also condemn it.
But here's a start
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5666.0
God always has a logic reason, not just because He wants it that way....
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Hello again!
Peace,
I have studied Biochemistry myself, and i know healthspecialist who also condemn it.
But here's a start
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5666.0
Professor Hans is one of the few you can count on fingers. He is in no win seat!
You should read more specially about benifts of pig and pig meat.God always has a logic reason, not just because He wants it that way....
Sure he does, but his logic is above our capacity, else you can later explain me for what reason God created us.
Also I dont see God saying harmful. It is your logic 'pig meat is harmful' where as 6145 translates;
- freeminds - .....the meat of pig, for it is foul.....
- yousaf ali - .....the flesh of swine,- for it is an abomination.....
- pickthal - .....swineflesh - for that verily is foul.....
- qxp - .....the flesh of swine for it is disapproved.........
Nowhere it says or mean harmful, input please?
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Peace,
There are lot's of doctors who say this, only it is to bad few publish for the public. Probably there is to much money involved. But the article i gave is enough if you look at the data given, plus i'm wondering about the 'benefits' of pigmeat? First time i hear that one...
Most prefer the word unclean/contimanited, and as Khalifa was a biochemist, like me, he knows which word fitted best, contiminated....as pigmeat is contiminated with the bad cholestrol, cancer producing chemicals and so on....
Shakir Say I do not find in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden for an eater to eat of except that it be what has died of itself, or blood poured forth, or flesh of swine-- for that surely is unclean-- or that which is a transgression, other than (the name of) Allah having been invoked on it; but whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring nor exceeding the limit, then surely your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.
Sarwar We made unlawful for the Jews all the claw-footed animals, fat of the cows, sheep and goats except what is found on their backs, intestines and whatever is mixed with their bones. Thus, did We recompense them for their rebellion and We are certainly truthful.
Khalifa Say, "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat of pigs, for it is contaminated, and (4) the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to other than GOD." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
Hilali/Khan Say (O Muhammad SAW) "I find not in that which has been inspired to me anything forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be Maytatah (a dead animal) or blood poured forth (by slaughtering or the like), or the flesh of swine (pork, etc.) for that surely is impure, or impious (unlawful) meat (of an animal) which is slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allah (or has been slaughtered for idols, etc., or on which Allahs Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering). But whosoever is forced by necessity without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, (for him) certainly, your Lord is OftForgiving, Most Merciful."
H/K/Saheeh Say, "I do not find within that which was revealed to me forbidden to one who would eat it unless it be a dead animal or blood spilled out or the flesh of swine for indeed, it is impure or it be disobedience, dedicated to other than Allah. But whoever is forced , neither desiring nor transgressing , then indeed, your Lord is Forgiving and Merciful."
Malik O Muhammad tell them I did not find in what has been revealed to me anything forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, except the meat of an already dead animal, or running blood or the flesh of swine (pork) - for these are unclean - or flesh of an animal which has become profane because of slaughtering in the names other than Allah. Even so, if anyone is forced in a helpless situation, intending neither disobedience nor transgression, you will find your Lord Forgiving, Merciful.
QXP Say, "I do not find in the Revelation given to me, any food that is prohibited for one who wishes to eat except Carrion (dead meat), running blood as against organ meats, the flesh of swine for it is disapproved, or anything (not just meat) which, in disobedience, has been dedicated to other than Allah." If one is forced by dire need without being deliberate and without transgressing, your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful. (2173), (53).
Maulana Ali Say, I find not in that which is revealed to me aught forbidden for an eater to eat thereof, except that it be what dies of itself, or blood poured forth, or flesh of swine -- for that surely is unclean -- or what is a transgression, other than (the name of) Allah having been invoked on it. But whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring nor exceeding the limit, then surely thy Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.
Qaribullah Say 'I find nothing in what has been revealed to me that forbids any one to eat of any food except the dead, running blood, and the flesh of swine for these are unclean and that which has been hallowed in its slaughter to other than Allah. But whoever is constrained to eat of any of these, not intending to sin or transgress, then your Lord is Forgiving, the Most Merciful.
JM Rodwell SAY I find not in what hath been revealed to me aught forbidden to the eater to eat, except it be that which dieth of itself, or blood poured forth, or swine's flesh; for this is unclean or profane, being slain in the name of other than God. But whoso sha
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Peace Arnold,
There are lot's of doctors who say this, only it is to bad few publish for the public. Probably there is to much money involved.
whatever
But the article i gave is enough if you look at the data given, plus i'm wondering about the 'benefits' of pigmeat? First time i hear that one...
I am not a pig eater or pig supporter, but honestly if this is 1st time you heard, your vast knowledge is one sided.
Most prefer the word unclean/contimanited, and as Khalifa was a biochemist, like me, he knows which word fitted best, contiminated....as pigmeat is contiminated with the bad cholestrol, cancer producing chemicals and so on....
Biochemistry and then sticking to one view, you change colors quickly, anyway who says 'unclean' = harmful?
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Peace,
For a person who answers with whatever, you don't have much to put in. As i haven't heard any benefits of pigmeat is because there really aren't any... Change colours? Weird way to discuss......i haven't seen one evidence from you that shows the opposite of what i presented...if you have any info that supports your thinking please share.
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Peace Marlboro
I think it's common knowledge that pork really is bad for the health. It contains harmful parasites such as protozoan ciliate, the pork tapeworm, and the trichina roundworm. Apparently these are parasites that can be transferred from pig meat to human intestines and cause numerous disease and infection. They also live in human muscle fibers and have a life span of 40 years wreaking havoc on its host, the human, in the form of fatigue, headaches, constipation, pain, inflamation, on and off flu-like symptoms etc etc. Not to mention the amount of bad cholesterol it contains.
What's the fascintation with pork anyway D
I remember when I was a child my neighbor was baby-sitting me and neither she nor I knew that I shouldn't eat pork. She gave me fresh pepperoni to eat with crackers. I thought it tasted so good I ate the whole roll! Then I came home and got extremely sick and couldn't stop vomitting. It was then that my mom told me I shouldn't eat that. Somehow my body gave me the same advice .
So what's the evidence that proves pork is good for you? or were you just playing devil's advocate ? ;DPeace All
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Peace Arnold,
Peace,
For a person who answers with whatever, you don't have much to put in. As i haven't heard any benefits of pigmeat is because there really aren't any... Change colours? Weird way to discuss......i haven't seen one evidence from you that shows the opposite of what i presented...if you have any info that supports your thinking please share.
If keep inputing nonsense better not.
Change colors! offcourse first you said its 'harmful' then 'unclean', both words are world apart.Evidence for what?? God said forbidden, cos 'foul' / 'abomination' / 'disapproved' / 'unclean' / 'impure' (6145)
thats wht all translations conclude. Not harmfulWhy are you using word harmful? To make your point or to prove doctor right
Peace!
PS; Any arabic speaker please translate 6145, it will help me understand.
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As salamu alaykum.
Respectfully. groupOkay, pork is a sin. We should not eat it and we won't. handshake
I think we shouldn't eat pork not only because it is a sin, but because Allah Most Merciful says we shouldn't. We have to obey Allah Most Merciful. sunOf course, Allah Most High proves to us that pork is bad for us, that alcohol is bad for us and when we try those things, we ask for Mercy and Allah Most Powerful forgives us when we repent and become better.
Who will forgive, if not Allah Most Merciful? peace
As salamu alaykum. jedi -
Salaam all
I wouldn't say that something is haram to eat because it is harmful. I do not think we have to know why. We just obey and believe that Allah is the most Knowledeable and Merciful
There are other foods that are haram and definitely not harmful, e.g the food of kafers, even if it is vegetarian. Animals which are haram to eat (other than pigmeat and dead animals) are all animals that were killed but not for the purpose of eating them Allah forbade eating an animal that suffocated, but not one I strangled to cook and eat.
There are also other things that are harmful but not forbidden animal fat, too much salt, too much bananas, egg yolk, peanuts (specially when they develop fungus)...
As for pigmeat, I wouldn't say it is more harmful than beef (specially a madcow!!), even if some researchers said so, where is the proof? Pigmeat eaters are the best sportsmen/women, intelligent and live longer. Of course this is not because they eat pork, but eating pork does not seem to act in a harmful way to them.
And what if someday genetic engineering, or another "Pasteur", succeeded in eliminating all the parasites and worms in pigmeat and rendered it harmless? Would it be halal then?
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Saima;
I wouldn't say that something is haram to eat because it is harmful. I do not think we have to know why. We just obey and believe that Allah is the most Knowledeable and MercifulThere are other foods that are haram and definitely not harmful, e.g the food of kafers, even if it is vegetarian. Animals which are haram to eat (other than pigmeat and dead animals) are all animals that were killed but not for the purpose of eating them Allah forbade eating an animal that suffocated, but not one I strangled to cook and eat.
There are also other things that are harmful but not forbidden animal fat, too much salt, too much bananas, egg yolk, peanuts (specially when they develop fungus)...
As for pigmeat, I wouldn't say it is more harmful than beef (specially a madcow!!), even if some researchers said so, where is the proof? Pigmeat eaters are the best sportsmen/women, intelligent and live longer. Of course this is not because they eat pork, but eating pork does not seem to act in a harmful way to them.
And what if someday genetic engineering, or another "Pasteur", succeeded in eliminating all the parasites and worms in pigmeat and rendered it harmless? Would it be halal then?
bravo
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Peace,
Then you would still be left with that fact that pigmeat has all the wrong chemicals, the wrong cholestrol and so on, even after eliminating the parasites you're only halfway.
And your example of the athletes is not really a good one. A lot of athletes also use chemicals to enhance their performances, but these chemicals destroy their body. Most athletes are only in their prime for a few years. So this is a short term example. We are talking here about long term examples, that is the difference.
Everything has a genuine reason, to say, oh God just forbid it without a reason is not my way of thinking. I don't demand answers, but i do look for them. All the 'harams' inside the Quran are connected with that it is truly harmfull for individuals or society, not because God wants to 'test' us.
Peace
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Peace,
Arnold
Then you would still be left with that fact that pigmeat has all the wrong chemicals, the wrong cholestrol and so on, even after eliminating the parasites you're only halfway.You havent proved yet.
And your example of the athletes is not really a good one.
Same can be said about the doc you quoted.
A lot of athletes also use chemicals to enhance their performances, but these chemicals destroy their body
.Irrelevant.
Most athletes are only in their prime for a few years. So this is a short term example. We are talking here about long term examples, that is the difference.
rotfl you want them to stay in prime for decades ?
Everything has a genuine reason, to say, oh God just forbid it without a reason is not my way of thinking.
In this case the reason is 'foul' / 'abomination' / 'disapproved' / 'unclean' / 'impure'. But this reason isnt enough for you, and you keep on adding reasons to a reason.
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Peace,
Marlboro, your answers shows you cannot answer it with a scientific intelligent answer. When we are talking about chemicals as be found in pigs metabolism, it only has effect on the long term, so the athletes-example cannot be applied here. My remark on the chemicals athletes sometimes use, was that these have a effect on the long term, and not on the short term, just like pigmeat. So their performances is not connected with taking unhealthy subtsances or not, as these only have effect on their bodies on the long term. So it is not irrelevant at all.
And give me one thing that is 'haram' in the Quran that isn't connected with harmfull for individuals or society......
But indeed we strayed here to off-topic....
forgive us lady elke
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Salam,
Let's stay on topic please and let us control our ego here. peace
Ontopic
What about verse 3337? Didn't Muhammad had a secret crush on the wife of his adopted son? He kept it a secret, while God knew all along what he was feeling and thinking. Or isn't that true and did I let myself get influenced by the hadith?And you said to the one who was blessed by God, and blessed by you "Keep your wife and reverence God," and you hid inside yourself what God wished to proclaim. And you feared the people, while it was God you were supposed to fear. So when Zayd ended his relationship with his wife, We had you marry her, to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives of their adopted sons if their relationship is ended. And God's command is always done. (3337)
However, I don't see bad thoughts as a sin. I for example had many bad thoughts about murdering someone, but I never acted on those thoughts. I think a lot of you have bad thoughts, but you also don't act on 'em. We do have to draw line somewhere! We need to control our thoughts and not the other way around.