Salat according to Chapter 107
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Salat was done at three times. Dawn and dusk which are compulsory. The third is part of the night which is optional 'nafla'. Think about it. When did the prophet recite the Quran on the people if it is not the Salat?
NB. Salat is also done by the one who recites the revelations himself because he is also studying the scripture. So the prophets salat is when he recited the Quran on people.
17107 Say ?Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins prostrating.?
- ie. when the Quran is recited on them, they listen attentively and humbly that their chins touches their chest.( a sign of humbeness and respect)
1958 Those are the ones whom God has blessed from amongst the prophets from the progeny of Adam, and those We carried with Noah, and from the progeny of Abraham and Israel, and from whom We have guided and chosen. When the revelations of the Almighty are recited to them, they fall down prostrating, and in tears. - same thing here they listen attentively to the recitation and start crying '(
God knows best.
Peace all
i depend v much in my understading of salat on these verses
17107 Say ?Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins prostrating.?
17108 And they say ?Praise be to our Lord. Truly, the promise of our Lord was fulfilled.?
2564 And those who stay awake for their Lord, in prostration and standing.what i do is reading verses from the quraan while standing then prostrate saying the verse 17 108.
But i never experianced crying during my prayer -[
- ie. when the Quran is recited on them, they listen attentively and humbly that their chins touches their chest.( a sign of humbeness and respect)
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Thanks. Hope someone breaks this down.
Peace.
Many persons already did. Look at the Ahmed Ali translation from 1989
107 Things of Common Use
Al-Ma'un Makki
In the name of Allah, most benevolent, ever-merciful.
HAVE YOU SEEN him who denies the Day of Judgement?
2. It is he who pushes the orphan away,
3. And does not induce others to feed the needy.
4. Woe to those who pray
5. But who are oblivious of their moral duties,
6. Who dissimulate
7. And withhold things of common use (from others).http//www.mlivo.com/translations/Ahmed%20Ali.htm
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Peace all,
Thanks for the verses.
I want to understand more about this interpretation. How does it gel with verses like these339 The angels called to him whilst he was standing, communing, in the temple enclosure ?God gives you good tidings of John, authenticating the word from God, and a master, and steadfast, and a prophet from the upright.?
4102 And if you are with them and you hold the communion for them, then let a group from amongst them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have prostrated then let them stand guard from behind; and let a group who has not yet communed come and commune with you, and let them be wary and let them bring their weapons with them. The rejecters hope that you would neglect your weapons and goods so they can come upon you in one blow. There is no sin upon you if you are impeded by rainfall, or if you are ill, that you place down your weapons. And be wary. God has prepared for the rejecters a humiliating retribution.
Now, people who say salat is prayer will find this Sura to be illogical. How can you be absent minded from prayer while you are one of those who prayed and what is praying has to do with charity. Others say that Salat is following the divine system.
That does not necessarily rule out prayer. Perhaps being heedless of your "prayer" means you don't do it with sincerity and are doing it to be seen. As these people do not really believe in the system, they also do not give charity etc.
Those are my thoughts.
peace -
Peace,
339 The angels called to him whilst he was standing, communing, in the temple enclosure God gives you good tidings of John, authenticating the word from God, and a master, and steadfast, and a prophet from the upright.
This could be reciting the scripture or praying.
4102 And if you are with them and you hold the communion for them, then let a group from amongst them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have prostrated then let them stand guard from behind; and let a group who has not yet communed come and commune with you, and let them be wary and let them bring their weapons with them. The rejecters hope that you would neglect your weapons and goods so they can come upon you in one blow. There is no sin upon you if you are impeded by rainfall, or if you are ill, that you place down your weapons. And be wary. God has prepared for the rejecters a humiliating retribution.
Here, the messenger is reciting the scripture to a group of people once they hear it another group comes. If it is praying, why divide into groups? Can't everyone pray on his own? Or could it be they are doing something physical?
That does not necessarily rule out prayer. Perhaps being heedless of your "prayer" means you don't do it with sincerity and are doing it to be seen. As these people do not really believe in the system, they also do not give charity etc.
Possible.
In the name of Allah, most benevolent, ever-merciful.
HAVE YOU SEEN him who denies the Day of Judgement?
2. It is he who pushes the orphan away,
3. And does not induce others to feed the needy.
4. Woe to those who pray
5. But who are oblivious of their moral duties,
6. Who dissimulate
7. And withhold things of common use (from others).Here Salat became prayer and moral duties! If a word can have multiple meanings like this, we are cooked! eat
i depend v much in my understading of salat on these verses
17107 Say Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins prostrating.
17108 And they say Praise be to our Lord. Truly, the promise of our Lord was fulfilled.
2564 And those who stay awake for their Lord, in prostration and standing.
what i do is reading verses from the quraan while standing then prostrate saying the verse 17 108.
But i never experianced crying during my prayerThats a good understanding. But the chin part is weird. Could it be the jewish tradition prostration?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3YFP5r5x-w
Kinda looks like being arrested by the police.
About the crying, neither do I nope. But it takes time and a good context like Night of Measure, going to war, hard times etc.Peace.
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Thats a good understanding. But the chin part is weird. Could it be the jewish tradition prostration?
As far as my humble undesratnding to this chin part, that we have to fall untill the chin is to the ground, cause the word KHARA in many verses sound like it is a fall till the ground for eaxmaple.
1626 Those before them have schemed, but God came to their buildings from the foundation, thus the roof fell on top of them, and the retribution came to them from where they did not know.3414 Then, when We decreed death for him, nothing informed them of his death until a worm kept eating from his staff, so when he fell down, the Jinn realized that if they had known the unseen, they would not have remained in the humiliating retribution.
I noticed that the word kneeling is sometimes associtaed and linked with the word prostration, as if they are the same act, kneeling is falling to the knee, then the chin fall to the ground, it seems to me that the common prostration moslem used to do is near to this understanding.
4829 Mohammed is the messenger of God, and those who are with him are severe against the rejecters, but merciful between themselves. You see them kneeling and prostrating, they seek God's blessings and approval. Their distinction is in their faces, as a result of prostrating. Such is their example in the Torah. And their example in the Injeel is like a plant which shoots out and becomes strong and thick and it stands straight on its trunk, pleasing to the farmers. That He may enrage the rejecters with them. God promises those among them who believe and do good works a forgiveness and a great reward.
I dont belive that kneeling is the bowing sunni and shiia do , i also believe that after reading the verses of the quraan we have to prostrate immedeiately .
this is my understanding so far, if i found another convincing idea, i will take it. sun
i saw the video of the jew prostration, i think it is inconvinient and a sort of a hardship elektro.
peace
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As far as my humble undesratnding to this chin part, that we have to fall untill the chin is to the ground, cause the word KHARA in many verses sound like it is a fall till the ground for eaxmaple.
1626 Those before them have schemed, but God came to their buildings from the foundation, thus the roof fell on top of them, and the retribution came to them from where they did not know.3414 Then, when We decreed death for him, nothing informed them of his death until a worm kept eating from his staff, so when he fell down, the Jinn realized that if they had known the unseen, they would not have remained in the humiliating retribution.
I noticed that the word kneeling is sometimes associtaed and linked with the word prostration, as if they are the same act, kneeling is falling to the knee, then the chin fall to the ground, it seems to me that the common prostration moslem used to do is near to this understanding.
4829 Mohammed is the messenger of God, and those who are with him are severe against the rejecters, but merciful between themselves. You see them kneeling and prostrating, they seek God's blessings and approval. Their distinction is in their faces, as a result of prostrating. Such is their example in the Torah. And their example in the Injeel is like a plant which shoots out and becomes strong and thick and it stands straight on its trunk, pleasing to the farmers. That He may enrage the rejecters with them. God promises those among them who believe and do good works a forgiveness and a great reward.
I dont belive that kneeling is the bowing sunni and shiia do , i also believe that after reading the verses of the quraan we have to prostrate immedeiately .
this is my understanding so far, if i found another convincing idea, i will take it. sun
i saw the video of the jew prostration, i think it is inconvinient and a sort of a hardship elektro.
peace
A plausible understanding. The word 'kharra' always mean to fall except for this verse
2573 And those who when they are reminded of their Lords verses, they do not fall on them deaf and blind.How can you fall on them deaf and blind? Did the guy drop dead on the Quran? rotfl This is the opposite of
17107 Say Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins prostrating.
So you can fall in 2 ways - listening to it or turning away from it.
But the physical prostration is fine for now. hailPeace. peace
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But the physical prostration is fine for now. hail
Peace. peace
I think there are verses in the quran where prostration sound to be a physical act, i will share with u some.
4102 And if you are with them and you hold the communion for them, then let a group from amongst them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have prostrated then let them stand guard from behind; and let a group who has not yet communed come and commune with you, and let them be wary and let them bring their weapons with them.
4829 Their distinction is in their faces, as a result of prostrating.
5040 And from the night glorify Him, and after prostrating.
6842 The Day will come when they will be exposed, and they will be required to prostrate, but they will be unable to.
399 Is one better who is dutiful during the night, prostrating and standing, fearing the Hereafter, and seeking the mercy of his Lord? Say ?Are those who know equal to those who do not know?? Only those who possess understanding will remember.
124 When Joseph said to his father ?My father, I have seen eleven planets and the sun and the moon, I saw them yielding to me.?
peace
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I think there are verses in the quran where prostration sound to be a physical act, i will share with u some.
4102 And if you are with them and you hold the communion for them, then let a group from amongst them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have prostrated then let them stand guard from behind; and let a group who has not yet communed come and commune with you, and let them be wary and let them bring their weapons with them.
4829 Their distinction is in their faces, as a result of prostrating.
5040 And from the night glorify Him, and after prostrating.
6842 The Day will come when they will be exposed, and they will be required to prostrate, but they will be unable to.
399 Is one better who is dutiful during the night, prostrating and standing, fearing the Hereafter, and seeking the mercy of his Lord? Say Are those who know equal to those who do not know? Only those who possess understanding will remember.
124 When Joseph said to his father My father, I have seen eleven planets and the sun and the moon, I saw them yielding to me.
peace
Peace Hope,
Thanks for the verses and I agree that there is some form of physical prostration involved.
Peace.
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3414 Then, when We decreed death for him, nothing informed them of his death until a worm kept eating from his staff, so when he fell down, the Jinn realized that if they had known the unseen, they would not have remained in the humiliating retribution.
For how long he was standing with his staff, for few hrs or for years and the jinns did not notice that he was not praying etc o
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For how long he was standing with his staff, for few hrs or for years and the jinns did not notice that he was not praying etc
Peace,
Respectfully.God knows best.
My guess would be that they were eating it in and out and at some point he simply fell.
God knows best and may He bless us all.Glory be to our God.
Peace. -
Peace,
Respectfully.God knows best.
My guess would be that they were eating it in and out and at some point he simply fell.
God knows best and may He bless us all.Glory be to our God.
Peace.The worms were eating the staff it means it tokk very long time, my question is why the jinns did not notice that soliman is not moving , not eating not praying etc. O0
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The worms were eating the staff it means it tokk very long time, my question is why the jinns did not notice that soliman is not moving , not eating not praying etc. O0
Peace,
Respectfully.God knows best.
Only God knows best and we know very little.
Always trust God and rely on Him, that's the best investment.Glory be to our God,
Glory be to our God,
Glory be to our God,
Peace. -
Peace,
Respectfully.God knows best.
Only God knows best and we know very little.
Always trust God and rely on Him, that's the best investment.Glory be to our God,
Glory be to our God,
Glory be to our God,
Peace.I invested in God from my Birth i think im lucky one in that case. ;D
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peace aalmakto, all,
339 is the verb form, thus one should study the verb form.
4102 is often cited for evidence of "salat" meaning prayer when in reality several Classical Arabic meanings of "salat" could be used in this verse and sjd commonly translated as "prostrate" is not so, according to The Quran.
Many are still under the mistaken impression sjd means "prostrate" when The Quranic evidence is against this meaning. The topic of sjd has been discussed in significant detail in this forum. Unfortunately, like many topics, it has been discussed so much that quality discussion is mixed among poor quality discussion.
It is also unfortunate that the "free-minds" translation still propogates this meaning.
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Peace Hope,
Where is the "and"/"wa" between kneeling/"rukka3an" and prostrating/"sujjadan" in 4829 as you have translated?
The phrase is "rukka3an sujjadan" where "sujjadan" is the adjective of "rukka3an" meaning "obediently humbling" or "obediently kneeling". When taken as a physical act, it suggests both as one continuous action, i.e. kneeling and then prostrating to the chin". "You see them obediently kneeling" implies a physical kneeling.
In 17107, it is "yakhirroon lil athqaan", meaning "they fall to their chins". Falling to the chin does not mean touching the chin to the ground but means lowering the chin from a higher point to a lower point but not necessarily touching the ground. Thus lowering one's face to any degree towards the ground without touching it would satisfy the physical sujud according to the qur'anic terminology. In fact, bending one's neck until the chin touches the chest would satisfy it too. Otherwise how would you fall to the ground in prostration every time you hear God's aayaat being recited? For example while crossing a road you hear God's aayaat being recited on a loud speaker; how will you perform the physical sujud?
17107 Say ?Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins prostrating.?
1958 Those are the ones whom God has blessed from amongst the prophets from the progeny of Adam, and those We carried with Noah, and from the progeny of Abraham and Israel, and from whom We have guided and chosen. When the revelations of the Almighty are recited to them, they fall down prostrating, and in tears.
3215 The only people who believe in Our revelations are those whom when they are reminded by them, they fall prostrating, and they glorify the praise of their Lord, and they are not arrogant.
Of course, where ever the physical sujud to God is implied according to the context in al-qur'an, the mental component of obedience while performing the physical sujud is also implied and is the more important component.
Other verses where sujud can only be physical are the following
4137 And from among His signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not prostrate to the sun, nor the moon; you shall prostrate to God who created them, if it is truly Him you serve.
2724 ?And I found her and her people prostrating to the sun instead of God! And the devil had made their work appear good to them, so he kept them away from the path, for they are not being guided.?
How can one mentally obey the sun or the moon?
