The Mysterious Two Seas

Rami

That would be too easy and therefore no fun

You are right D

I said possible but it is a sea but we established the fact that place where the two waters meet is the mouth of the river. Where is that river and where is that Mouth?! I have no idea.

Thanks for the links.

What do you think of this verse?

2559 As such, We gave it to the Children of Israel.

You can see the two seas from the previous 12-ayahs of the sura, if you give it much thought.

The sea which leaves a good taste (good deeds)
The sea that will leave bitter tastes (bad/evil actions)

The Quran is not crooked. It is straight talk. That is a bit close to mysticism and can be applied to anything.

Peace,

Rami

Bosnian_Thinker

Peace FM,

One of the great abuses of the Quran is to merge science into the Book without sure knowledge putting the Quran in range for attacks by the critics. One of the supposed miracles of the Quran is that it talks about the two seas that meet each other and between them is a barrier where they don't intermix. Yes, this kind of barrier exist between the Mediterranean and the Atlantic due to difference in salinity but both are not suitable for drinking which contradicts the following verse

3512 Nor are the two seas the same. One is fresh and palatable, good to drink, while the other is salty and bitter. And from each of them you eat tender meat, and you extract jewelry to wear. And you see the ships sailing through them, seeking His provisions; and perhaps you may be appreciative.

There is also another problem that there is no seawater that is palatable to drink. This mean 'bahr' doesn't mean sea but a collection of water. The only example (I know of) where drinkable water meets salty water is in the mouth of a river! And yes we eat fish from both the sea and the river. This gets interesting when you look at the following

1860 And Moses said to his youth ?I will not stop until I reach the junction of the two seas, or I spend a lifetime trying.?

Here Moses is determined to reach the junction between the two seas. But how will he know this if they are two 'seas' in our terms. Will he taste the water and when the salinity changes bingo he will know he did it. No, simply Moses was trying to get to the mouth of the river.

There is also another problem. Moses' mother threw the basket, according to the Quran, into the sea. Which sea is this? and how will the basket drift to the shore? Isn't it more logical to be thrown into a river which naturally moves toward the sea? Does this mean 'yam' can aslo be a river? Was Pharaoh drowned in a river?

Please share your thoughts.

Peace,

Rami

Interesting.

Sarat

Peace,

Can a moderator please suspend Mr. Deen for not only threatening members, but for also attempting to derail a very interesting topic.

Rami

Lets take a deeper dive into the abyss,

The word 'yam' is mentioned seven times in the Quran. Sometimes it is sea and sometimes it is river according to the Biblical knowledge of the translator.

7136 We thus took vengeance upon them by drowning them in the sea(yam), for their denial of Our signs, and their disregard of them.

2039 That she should cast him in the basket, and cast the basket in the sea(yam), so the sea(yam) will place him on the shore, where an enemy of Mine and his will take him. And I placed upon you a love from Me. And that you shall be raised under My eye.

2078 So Pharaoh followed them with his soldiers, but the sea(yam) came-over them and covered them.

2097 He said Then be gone, for you will have it in this life to say I am not to be touched And you will have an appointed time which you will not forsake. And look to your god that you remained devoted to, we will burn him, then we will destroy him in the sea(yam) completely.

287 And We inspired to Moses mother Suckle him, and when you become fearful for him, then cast him off in the sea, and do not fear nor grieve. We will return him to you and We will make him of the messengers.

2840 So We took him and his soldiers, and We cast them into the sea(yam). So see how was the end of the wicked!

5140 So We took him and his troops; We cast them into the sea(yam), and he was to blame.

This is the free-minds translation which correctly made all yam to be sea unlike Yousef Ali who when the yam is about Moses' basket it becomes a river but when it is about Pharaoh's drowning , it becomes a sea. The word 'yam' is found in the hebrew language which means sea.

http//www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=H3220

Look at the biblical usage of the word 'yam' and you will see that the Nile or any mighty river is one of them! We can deduce that yam is like any deep water that is deep enough that you can drown in it which explains why Moses' mother was scared for her child and Pharaoh and his soldiers drowned when it closed on them. Can these deep body of water be one? The one which carried Moses, drowned Pharaoh and hosted the broken Golden calf! There is one verse thats really weird

2039 That she should cast him in the basket, and cast the basket in the sea(yam), so the sea(yam) will place him on the shore, where an enemy of Mine and his will take him. And I placed upon you a love from Me. And that you shall be raised under My eye.

How will the sea take him to the shore? What shore?! Maybe she cast him into a deep river and this river took him slowly into the shore of the sea the river is going to! Lets take a look at the very exciting Moses' adventures that is a Quran exlcusive

1860 And Moses said to his youth I will not stop until I reach the junction of the two seas, or I spend a lifetime trying.
1861 But when they did reach the junction between, they forgot their fish, and it was able to make its way back to the sea in a stream.
1862 And when they had passed further on, he said to his youth Bring us our lunch; we have found much fatigue in this journey of ours.
1863 He said Do you remember when we rested upon the rock? I forgot the fish, and it was the devil that made me forget to remember it. It made its way back to the sea amazingly!
1864 He said That is what we have been seeking! So they went back retracing their steps.

Did you see that?! Moses reached the junction and continued further on!! which means this Junction is not the mouth of the river but the joining of two big rivers to become one and Moses and his son were NOT between them so they can continue alongside the united river a bit longer. This Junction is called a confluence. So there is two bodies of water one fresh and the other salty, when they unite they move as a single body with two streams with an invisible barrier between them and they don't intermix?!

Where is this in the world?!

Peace,

Rami

afridi220

Lets take a deeper dive into the abyss,

The word 'yam' is mentioned seven times in the Quran. Sometimes it is sea and sometimes it is river according to the Biblical knowledge of the translator.

7136 We thus took vengeance upon them by drowning them in the sea(yam), for their denial of Our signs, and their disregard of them.

2039 ?That she should cast him in the basket, and cast the basket in the sea(yam), so the sea(yam) will place him on the shore, where an enemy of Mine and his will take him. And I placed upon you a love from Me. And that you shall be raised under My eye.?

2078 So Pharaoh followed them with his soldiers, but the sea(yam) came-over them and covered them.

2097 He said ?Then be gone, for you will have it in this life to say ?I am not to be touched? And you will have an appointed time which you will not forsake. And look to your god that you remained devoted to, we will burn him, then we will destroy him in the sea(yam) completely.?

287 And We inspired to Moses? mother ?Suckle him, and when you become fearful for him, then cast him off in the sea, and do not fear nor grieve. We will return him to you and We will make him of the messengers.?

2840 So We took him and his soldiers, and We cast them into the sea(yam). So see how was the end of the wicked!

5140 So We took him and his troops; We cast them into the sea(yam), and he was to blame.

This is the free-minds translation which correctly made all yam to be sea unlike Yousef Ali who when the yam is about Moses' basket it becomes a river but when it is about Pharaoh's drowning , it becomes a sea. The word 'yam' is found in the hebrew language which means sea.

http//www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=H3220

Look at the biblical usage of the word 'yam' and you will see that the Nile or any mighty river is one of them! We can deduce that yam is like any deep water that is deep enough that you can drown in it which explains why Moses' mother was scared for her child and Pharaoh and his soldiers drowned when it closed on them. Can these deep body of water be one? The one which carried Moses, drowned Pharaoh and hosted the broken Golden calf! There is one verse thats really weird

2039 ?That she should cast him in the basket, and cast the basket in the sea(yam), so the sea(yam) will place him on the shore, where an enemy of Mine and his will take him. And I placed upon you a love from Me. And that you shall be raised under My eye.?

How will the sea take him to the shore? What shore?! Maybe she cast him into a deep river and this river took him slowly into the shore of the sea the river is going to! Lets take a look at the very exciting Moses' adventures that is a Quran exlcusive

1860 And Moses said to his youth ?I will not stop until I reach the junction of the two seas, or I spend a lifetime trying.?
1861 But when they did reach the junction between, they forgot their fish, and it was able to make its way back to the sea in a stream.
1862 And when they had passed further on, he said to his youth ?Bring us our lunch; we have found much fatigue in this journey of ours.?
1863 He said ?Do you remember when we rested upon the rock? I forgot the fish, and it was the devil that made me forget to remember it. It made its way back to the sea amazingly!?
1864 He said ?That is what we have been seeking!? So they went back retracing their steps.

Did you see that?! Moses reached the junction and continued further on!! which means this Junction is not the mouth of the river but the joining of two big rivers to become one and Moses and his son were NOT between them so they can continue alongside the united river a bit longer. This Junction is called a confluence. So there is two bodies of water one fresh and the other salty, when they unite they move as a single body with two streams with an invisible barrier between them and they don't intermix?!

Where is this in the world?!

Peace,

Rami

I think the junction in this aya is in Khartoum sudan that is called white nile and blue nile

Rami

I think the junction in this aya is in Khartoum sudan that is called white nile and blue nile

Peace,

The problem that both the white and blue nile are made up of freshwater, even the Tigris and the Euphrates are made up of freshwater. I can't find any example other the mouth of a river that describes freshwater meeting saltwater. It could mean that the mouth of the river Moses was going to opened in some kind of bay or lake so you can move past the point of meeting.

Peace,

Rami

afridi220