Facts on Circumcision

sahaba

Peace,

Thought this will be an interesting read for everyone.

Male babies and children in Muslim families as well as females in many parts of Africa are "circumcised". Explore the issues to do with this widespread practice from a Quranic perspective.

Prophet Ibrahim & circumcision

The Qur'an deals extensively with Prophet Ibrahim and it mentions nothing of him being circumcised. Rather it was his faith and commitment to Allah's path which was stressed through out the Qur'an and which is to be followed. Circumcision of the Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) is actually not even mentioned in the hadiths. The proponents of circumcision take this information from the BIBLE. Allah tells us about Prophet Ibrahim's true devotion to Him alone extensively in the Qur'an and states

"Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to Allah, does good work, and follows the way of Ibrahim who was true in Faith? For Allah did take Ibrahim for a friend." (Qur'an 4125)

We follow the way of Ibrahim by following the religion communicated in the Qur'an, NOT the Bible.

Allah tells us that He has created human beings perfectly

In numerous Verses of the Qur'an, Allah tells us that He has created everything, as well as human beings, in the most perfect form. For example

"He the One Who has made PERFECTLY everything He has created He began the creation of human beings with clay" (Qur'an 327)

This means when the baby leaves the mother's womb, he or she is in the most perfect of shape down to the finest detail. Nothing needs alteration. With regards to this, Allah states the following

"Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the BEST OF ALL CREATORS!" (Qur'an 2314)

In another verse, Allah states

"The work of Allah who has PERFECTED everything (He created)." (Qur'an 278

These verses as well as other verses, tell us that Allah creates the human being, male and female, perfectly in the mother's womb. Allah did not make a 'mistake' in designing the foreskin of the male. He does not need mankind to take a knife and start cutting off bits from all males, as if though it is a corrective procedure. The proponents of circumcision say there are hygiene reasons behind them doing this. This is actually an insult against Allah. HAD IT BEEN BETTER, Allah would have designed all male babies without the bit of the foreskin - as ALLAH HAS PERFECTED His creation as is stated in numerous verses in the Qur'an.

There is actually no hiding from this argument. The proponents of circumcision try to side-track these verses. Most of the time, they have never read verses such as the above, because they are busy with reading books written by man.

Satan's pledge to change Allah's creation

The Satan pledges to make mankind alter bits of what Allah has created. Allah tells us this information in the following Verse

" I will lead them astray and fill them with false hopes. I will command them and they will cut off cattle's ears. I will command them and they will change Allah's creation. Anyone who takes Satan as his protector in place of Allah has clearly lost everything. He makes promises to them and fills them with false hopes. But what Satan promises them is nothing but delusion." (Qur'an 4119-120)

Hadiths on circumcision

NONE of the Hadiths on circumcision attributed to the Prophet, differentiate between male or female and in fact indicate females should also be "circumcised"! Because of this feature of the Hadiths, many so called Muslim clergyman have passed verdicts that it is mandatory for females to be "circumcised". This practice of "female circumcision" is widespread in many parts of Africa today because of these deviated teachings and lies preached by these leaders.

In fact, traditionalists can be challenged to this Show them all the hadiths on the subject and ask why do you not circumcise your daughters? A very confused look can be observed!

In SUMMARY

Qur'an NOR the hadiths indicate that Prophet Ibrahim was circumcised, even though the Qur'an deals extensively with Prophet Ibrahim.
When the baby leaves its mother, it needs NO CUTTING off, of any part of its body as Allah says He makes the baby in PERFECT form.
Satan pledges to make mankind manipulate Allah's creation, and gives the example of cutting off bits of the body.
None of the hadiths to do with circumcision differentiate between male or female circumcision and there are hadiths that indicate females should also be "circumcised" The hadith basis for male circumcision IS THE SAME basis for female circumcision.

The believer's duty is to abide by the values, teachings and morals of the Qur'an. These are the true values of the Prophet. He or she does not pretend to not grasp the truth when shown. The Qur'an is the only guide to the way of peace and salvation for all believers. Due to all the points in this article, male and female circumcision do not hold any grounding in Allah's true religion. Parents reading this, who are still considering circumcising their child must also think that their child should be given his own choice in having such a sensitive part of the body operated on and the rest of his life affected as a result.

QuranicPath | Facts on Circumcision

siki

Fully agree.

siki

Hope

Due to all the points in this article, male and female circumcision do not hold any grounding in Allah's true religion.

bravo

Not only that, it is clearly prohibited by Allah

3030 So establish yourself to the system of monotheism. It is the inclination that God has nurtured the people on. There is no changing in God?s creation. Such is the pure system, but most people do not know.

dc2

There is a video doing the rounds of someone interviewing people at a rally in support of Israel's actions in Gaza. The interview asks one lady Where do you draw the line with civilian casualties, where you start questioning what they're doing?

Veering wildly, Her were response was that she had seen a picture of a little girl whose father had slashed her head because of a religious holiday in Lebanon and that "we have a real problem" when a father is allowed to do something like that. The interviewer replied that his parents had a moil slash his penis. watch her squirm @~2m http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HQZw5JTAE8#t=2m03s

sahaba

bravo

Not only that, it is clearly prohibited by Allah

3030 So establish yourself to the system of monotheism. It is the inclination that God has nurtured the people on. There is no changing in God?s creation. Such is the pure system, but most people do not know.

Peace. This is an excellent Verse. I will put it in the article soon, God-willing.

As regards to the video, those are the people who have concealed their conscience with disbelief.

Wakas

peace AceOfHearts, all,

Re "perfectly/perfected" usage in 327, 2788 verses

Can you provide evidence for your translations?

Also, can you expand/clarify upon why you think 3030 is an "excellent" verse for your position?

Thanks.

phoenix1

Circumcision isn't all bad. It has shown to reduce the risk of STDs.

The more important question is, is it okay for parents to circumcise their little boys or should they be able to make a decision for themselves when they grow older?

Peace.

Wakas

I forgot to say two things

My comments do not imply I agree or disagree with the gist of the article, nor does it imply I found the rest of the article/translations accurate.

I simply highlighted potential problems with the article.

sahaba

peace AceOfHearts, all,

Re "perfectly/perfected" usage in 327, 2788 verses

Can you provide evidence for your translations?

Also, can you expand/clarify upon why you think 3030 is an "excellent" verse for your position?

Thanks.

Thanks Wakas, though your question on 3330 was not so specific, I will try to give a brief elaboration.

3030 is relevant verse upon a deeper analysis. To a perceptive person, it may seem that is referring to the context immediately surrounding the expression. But then is referring to either or . However, thinking deeper, I think there is a reason to why , a much broader term is used, which collectively includes all of God's creation including the elements in the greater context of the verse.

327 uses which when connected with is to make 'most' good every thing, this renders into 'perfected everything'. 2788 uses which carries the meaning 'to perfect'.

Hope this answers your question. )

Wakas

peace,

However, thinking deeper, I think there is a reason to why , a much broader term is used, which collectively includes all of God's creation including the elements in the greater context of the verse.

So the evidence you have for 3030 supporting your view is you think it implies a greater context? Thinking deeper, let's say that it does as you suggest, mean "there is no changing in God's creation" in the greater context. What do you make of genetically modified foods for example? Clearly this is changing in God's creation, thus is 3030 disproved according to you?

327 uses which when connected with is to make 'most' good every thing, this renders into 'perfected everything'.

I will assume by "this renders into..." means it doesn't really mean that but can be interpreted/embellished to mean 'perfected everything'.

"ahsan" more accurately means "most excellent/beautiful/good", or perhaps "best" but NOT "perfect". There is a big difference between "best" and "perfect".

2788 uses which carries the meaning 'to perfect'.

Evidence? It would be more accurate to say one of its classical Arabic meanings can be "to perfect" but that is not the only meaning. See below.

For those wishing to conduct a more thorough study, please see the following
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

Ha-Siin-Nun = To be handsome, make good, seem good/beautiful/comely/pleasing, be excellent, make or render a thing good or goodly, to beautify/embellish/adorn a thing, strive or compete in goodness, to do good or act well, act or behave with goodness or in a pleasing manner towards a person, confer a benefit or benefits upon a person, act graciously with a person, know a thing well, beautify/embellish/adorn oneself, reckon/account/esteem a person to be good/beautiful/pleasing.

hasuna vb. (1)
perf. act. 469, 1831, 2576
n.vb. 283, 314, 3148, 3195, 1329, 1886, 2711, 298, 3352, 3825, 3840, 3849, 4223

hasan n.m. (comp. adj. ahsan, husna; pl. hisan)
2138, 2245, 337, 337, 459, 486, 495, 4125, 512, 550, 6152, 7137, 7145, 7180, 817, 952, 9107, 9121, 1026, 113, 117, 1188, 123, 1318, 1662, 1667, 1675, 1696, 1697, 16125, 16125, 1734, 1735, 1753, 17110, 182, 187, 1888, 1973, 1974, 208, 2086, 21101, 2258, 2314, 2396, 2438, 2524, 2533, 2861, 297, 2946, 3321, 358, 37125, 3918, 3923, 3935, 3955, 4133, 4134, 4150, 4616, 4816, 5331, 5570, 5576, 5710, 5711, 5718, 5924, 604, 606, 6417, 672, 7320, 926, 929, 954

hasanah n.f. 2201, 2201, 3120, 440, 478, 479, 485, 6160, 795, 7131, 7156, 7168, 950, 11114, 136, 1322, 1630, 1641, 16122, 2570, 2746, 2789, 2854, 2884, 3910, 4134, 4223

ahsana vb. (4)
perf. act. 3172, 593, 6154, 1026, 1223, 12100, 1630, 177, 177, 1830, 2877, 327, 3910, 4064, 5331, 643, 6511
impf. act. 4128, 18104
impv. 2195, 2877
n.vb. 283, 2178, 2229, 436, 462, 6151, 9100, 1690, 1723, 4615, 5560, 5560
pcple. act. 258, 2112, 2195, 2236, 3134, 3148, 4125, 513, 585, 593, 684, 756, 7161, 991, 912011115, 1222, 1236, 1256, 1278, 1290, 16128, 2237, 2814, 2969, 313, 3122, 3329, 3780, 37105, 37110, 37113, 37121, 37131, 3934, 3958, 4612, 5116, 7744
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 2, page 206, 207, 208

= Ta-Qaf-Nun = To fatten (a land by watering it with muddy water).
Nature, in born disposition, mud.
To improve a thing, set a thing in good order, do a thing skillfully and thoroughly, fasten a thing, bring to perfection, make a thing in perfect consonance with the purpose to which it has been created.

atqana vb. (IV) - perf. act. 2788

Lane's Lexicon, Volume 1, page 346

FAR

bravo

Not only that, it is clearly prohibited by Allah

3030 So establish yourself to the system of monotheism. It is the inclination that God has nurtured the people on. There is no changing in God?s creation. Such is the pure system, but most people do not know.

There's a problem with this sort of "logic", because if circumcision is made forbidden by this then so would be cutting ones hair or nails, or wearing make up, or parfume, or trinklets.

What I understand from this verse, is regarding the laws of physics, religion of the god, the final return, that these the god will not change them. It is not refering to a commandment to what humans should do with themselves, apart from monotheism is what they should follow. Monotheism is a guidance. And there will be no change from monotheism.

The last part people don't understand this can be seen with how some atheists or paganists/polytheists believe this world is (cruel and based upon probabilities).

Also, circumcision would have been a signficant issue. The only person of the bible that commanded that circumcision be not needed, was Paul. When historical records state that Jesus was circumcised as a Jew. Surely there would be some record of him saying it was not right to circumcise. But this would have contradicted what Jesus had said regarding who had come for, vs Paul (that he had come for all people which would contradict Muhammad).

Anyone who has studied Paul, would know that he has some questions surrounding his credibility.

Surely also, there would be some record that Muhammad had said that circumcision was not right.

Male circumcision shows signs of good things, female circumcision (FGM in the form of Pharaonic circumcision) as what some people practice for non-medical reasons doesn't show any signs of any good neither support of historical records.

Hope

There's a problem with this sort of "logic", because if circumcision is made forbidden by this then so would be cutting ones hair or nails, or wearing make up, or parfume, or trinklets.

Peace

Hair and nails will regrow after cutting them, but cutting a part of the genitalia is permenant, i see it as God has created something in the human body, and the creatures decided thats God had made a mistake creating it, so they will correct this mistake.
God said that he gave all the examples in the quran , he didnt mention that for example, zakaria had circumscised yehia, or maryam had circumscided Eissa,..........etc,

People do circumscision based on a reliogion beliefs, thinking it is an order from god, where in the quran was it ordered?

sahaba

Thanks.

The only points to which I wish to make comments on is

Food should not be genetically modified by default. However, there are exceptions to this, for instance a food crisis where 'suffering' could be elevated - only for the duration but not to exceed beyond the life originally created by God. This too is the case with circumcision, i.e. a disorder requires circumcision (like any other removal operation due to a disorder).

Thanks for the comments Wakas, I do feel that the translations I have put up are justified at this time of writing.

As already indicated, cutting the hair or nails is not like circumcision. The hair and nails were 'designed' so that it could be cut, it keeps growing and it does not have blood circulation or nerve endings (not flesh). This is unlike that which is cut during circumcision, which has blood-circulation and nerve endings, and developed once in the womb, 'not designed' to be cut.

peace.

Wakas

Food should not be genetically modified by default. However, there are exceptions to this, for instance a food crisis where 'suffering' could be elevated - only for the duration but not to exceed beyond the life originally created by God. This too is the case with circumcision, i.e. a disorder requires circumcision (like any other removal operation due to a disorder).

Is the exception you give above outlined in The Quran?

Thanks for the comments Wakas, I do feel that the translations I have put up are justified at this time of writing.

I consider the parts highlighted as weak at best, and wrong and misleading at worst.

It is especially important to note that the weaknesses highlighted are used in your article as the main evidence underpinning your article, thus by default, the entire article is weak/unproven.

FAR

Peace

Hair and nails will regrow after cutting them, but cutting a part of the genitalia is permenant, i see it as God has created something in the human body, and the creatures decided thats God had made a mistake creating it, so they will correct this mistake.
God said that he gave all the examples in the quran , he didnt mention that for example, zakaria had circumscised yehia, or maryam had circumscided Eissa,..........etc,

People do circumscision based on a reliogion beliefs, thinking it is an order from god, where in the quran was it ordered?

There are also health benefits from circumscision.

But would this opinion also go for piercing?

unknownuser

Salaams,

"Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, and take away the foreskins of your heart, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem 1(12)"

Let us look to the Koran and ask what it says about circumcision. Very strangely, there is no reference at all to either male or female circumcision. Muslims generally ignore this fact. The word "circumcision" does not exist in the Koran, and this book does not even mention Abraham's circumcision although it does honor Abraham as the first Muslim and the model of the believers.

The only explicit references in the Koran are in two verses -- 288 and 4155 -- which use the term "uncircumcised" in a metaphorical, non-literal sense associated with "hearts" (qulubuna ghulufun), in reference to the Jews. Here are these two verses

And they say Our hearts are wrapped (qulubuna ghulufun). Nay, but Allah hath cursed them for their unbelief. Little is that which they believe (28.

Then because of their breaking of their covenant, and their disbelieving in the revelation of Allah, and their slaying of the prophets wrongfully, and their saying Our hearts are wrapped (qulubuna ghulufun). - Nay, but Allah hath put a stamp/imprint upon them for their disbelief, so that they believe not save a few (4155).

The term ghulfah means a foreskin or a cover. Muslims translate this expression into English by "our hearts are sealed" or "our hearts are hardened or wrapped". They never understood it as a reference to circumcision.

Instead they started to cut something else off wow

Hope

There are also health benefits from circumscision.

Would you highlight these benifts.

Does people undergo circumscision cause of these health benifits or cause of religion beliefs?.

This part of skin which is removed is present in the whole offsprings, it is not abnormal to be removed, God created it, so why remove it?

But would this opinion also go for piercing?

I think if this percing is permenant, the same idea would be implied.

but if it can heal with time and return to normal, well, i am not sure confused.

peace

P.S. i would make it clear, that i am not to imply my thoughts or consider it final even to me, i am here to share and discuss opinions, and see other points of view

SubmitterToGOD

we shouldn't remove the foreskin, unless necessery (if there is no blood flow, then it has to be done)

sahaba

It is especially important to note that the weaknesses highlighted are used in your article as the main evidence underpinning your article, thus by default, the entire article is weak/unproven.

I disagree. Anyone else agree with Wakas?

Interested to hear from someone who knows Arabic well.

Wakas

peace AceOfHearts,

I dont see how knowing Arabic well would help in this case.

"ahsan" is the superlative of "hassan". If "hassan" means "good/beautiful/excellent/fair" in The Quran, which it does, then its superlative means "most good/beautiful/excellent/fair". "perfect" is an entirely different and exaggerated meaning, which has no basis. To prove this, simply find one verse in The Quran which supports this view. I have already listed all occurrences for anyone wishing to study this, so this is not difficult.

Secondly, "atqana" only appears once in The Quran and your cited meaning is only one of the Classical Arabic possibilities, thus unless it can be proven by context/logic, your cited meaning is unproven.