Re: How did Music become HARAM?
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Salaam all...
I just thought I'd give my two cents in this (lengthy...) discussion.
I personally enjoy listening to rap/hiphop (among other genres), mainly because I enjoy the music itself. As for the lyrics of rap... Sure, many rap-lyrics can be offensive and portrait behaviour which are not to strive for in daily life. But then again, you have to have some distance to what you're hearing. I find many lyrics amusing and funny too. From my point of view, having listened to hip-hop for many many years, the majority of things said in these songs are not serious. Even as an attitude, it's not serious. If you listen to hiphop in a more diverse manner, you will find that many lyrics are very political and question behaviour such as degrading women, oppressing each other and so on. To me, I don't take it seriously if a rapper sings about sex and women in one song and in the next demonizes rape, teen-sex, prostitution and goes on with praising his mother in the song after that.
All in all, everything you hear and see is what you make of it. Sure, some lyrics may be offensive, but try to see the big picture. Maybe the rapper (in this case) is being ironic, something which is very hard to grasp from hearing just ONE song. From an outside perspective, hiphop may seem degrading to women, but most of the people I know who are into hiphop and other political music, are the ones who are most aware of injustices and misbehaviour in society, and also the ones who fight these things the most. Many things I hear in this music can be directly related to thing I read in the Quran. But like I said before, everything is only what you make of it, right?
That's all for now... Peace!
/Erik
You basically said what I wanted to convey .. It just depends on what a person makes of the music! Not all music about sex or women has to be bad or negative ... we shouldnt see verything in a negative light!!
Fatimah as for our discussion on women's clothes .. The part where Allah says to' lengthen your garments' ... How do we know how much do lengthen it? In those days women hardly wore anything so what if it meant to at least cover your breasts .. what is the limit? No such limit has been suggested by God so I think in the end it depends on us but obviously keeping it in mind that it should look modest!
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Salaam Ammarb87
Fatimah as for our discussion on women's clothes .. The part where Allah says to' lengthen your garments' ... How do we know how much do lengthen it?
Qur'aan 3359
O Prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the believing women to lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted. Allah is Forgiver, Most Merciful.If u see it in Arabic, then they key of the arabic word on that verse is Jalabibihinna, this is translated as "leghthen their garments" and when u look up the word, it means a long dress or gown. So this is the correct dress code in Islam and shorts contradict the lenght that is prescribed by Allah in Qur'aan 3359.
In those days women hardly wore anything so what if it meant to at least cover your breasts .. what is the limit? No such limit has been suggested by God
Brother, not only on those days but also in these days women hardly wore anything so with logically thinking, do u really think Allah would suggest to "at least" cover your breasts?
Qur'aan 2431
And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and mantain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary-and draw their head-covering over their bossoms...So, according to the law that Allah gives us for our dress code, we have to
- Leghten our garments
- Draw the head-covering over the bossoms (for woman)
No such limit has been suggested by God so I think in the end it depends on us but obviously keeping it in mind that it should look modest!
I have pointed u out the limit that Allah gives us for our dress code. We can not create our own standart based on our own understanding. Modest in people standart doesnt mean modest in Allah standart.
Salaam
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Peace Sis Fatimah
I enjoyed your posts on this thread - thanks for the insight )
I believe the issue of physical modesty of clothing in Islam is left to place and time. Today in many parts of the world, and for many job occupations, dresses are unpractical for the Muslim woman. Therefore, if we limit the interpretation to a long dress or gown, it would not fit our place or time. A garment can basically be anything. If we take the aya strictly in the physical sense, it would mean that we should not go to extremes in our fashion. If the new fashion is tight hot-shorts that barely cover your rear-end, then lenghthen that garment to a legth that is considered conservative, or modest, in your space and time. The bosom is actually the only part of the human anatomy that was mentioned in this matter. So that area is the only absolute.
However, what if we were to examine the issue of modesty in the light of our attitudes and behavior? I think then we would get the right mind-set. If the mind-set is that of a modest and humble person, we will carry ourselves with kindness towards our fellow man, empathy towards the weak or oppressed, we will not be so bold as to objectify men or women on the basis of their body parts, and it will then carry into the way we carry ourselves and the way we dress. Just something to think about )
Peace All
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Here is what I feel
It became haram when people said it was haraam. In other words when people (scholars, imams, mullahs and other self appointed Islamic "experts" decided it was haraam. When people decided to oppress and control other people, music became haram. When they realised that music can be therapeutic, beneficial and healing, it became bad because anything that makes us feel good certainly must in reality be bad -- according to their small minds. Even the Ayatollah Khomeini was quoted as saying, "There is no fun in Islam."
Not in HIS version, that's for certain! shock
In 31.6 Luqman, in my Saudi Qu'ran it states "And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allah, or the Verses of the Qu'ran) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-Fire)."
Notice how music and singing are in parentheses, inserted by scholars to forbid something God did not forbid. Why would God forbid something so natural?
My Abdullah Yusuf Ali Qu'ran translation, in footnote 4168 - "All nature sings in unison and celebrates the praises of Allah. David was given the gift of music and psalmody, and therefore the hills and birds are expressed as singing Allah's praises in unison with him (David)."
Some Qu'ran translations as someone else stated, contain the word "sing". Others have replaced "sing" with "echo", as has my Saudi Qu'ran.Music being forbidden is not logical. If people would just THINK and use LOGIC and REASONING they would understand that music is natural and occurs all around us, often without us even noticing its presence.
Music is all around us in everyday life from the 60 hertz hum of an electronic machine that hums in a particular key, to birds singing, to the phenomenon of space radio (reception of natural radio signals which are produced by lightning and aurora) which produces sferics and whistlers http//www.hobbyspace.com/Radio/, even to our own voices which are musical notes. Even math and music are scientifically related.
Who else could have created all of this into music for us but the one and only true God? Who else could have given some of us the gift to be able to sing and create music but God? And how dare us deny such a gift of God!
Even the sounds of drums are able to change brainwave patterns and make one relax. It works for me, just try it one day and see. Amazing.
Even on Judgment Day, what will be used to let us know that day has come? A TRUMPET. A trumpet is no less than a musical instrument.
Life without music is no life at all. It is natural, healthy, therapeutic.
Those same hypocrites who tell you music is forbidden are the ones you will see watching television and using computers and cellphones, all which as you know, contain music. These same hypocrites will listen to various people "reciting" Qu'ran in musical tones! Those people are SINGING.6.150 - Say "Bring forward your witnesses to prove that God did forbid so and so."
So tell me, when someone says to me music is forbidden, I want them to bring proof from witnesses that God FORBID music.D
lolAs salamu alaykum.
Respectfully.Yes, i agree 100%. I couldn't said it better. I totally agree with you. Mucis calms you down, inspires you, well, at least me when i write scripts. sun
As salamu alaykum. jedi
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They create it for ALL. Means ur kids would hear it, ur kids would watch it and they will keep those things on their mind etc.
So what do u think about this brother?Salaam
I think that this line of logic only hurts us ultimately. I think we all know that realistically there are very few cases of people who have had absolutely no interest in sex until hearing some Marvin Gaye. Music does not inspire sexual thoughts, a sexual attraction to people inspires sexual thoughts. I can honestly say that if anyone I know was ever to publicly state that hearing a song made them feel sexually aroused they would be a candidate for sectioning.We all know that people naturally grow up and become interested in sex and music really plays no role in that. Anyone who believes that certain behaviour is wrong (or not even ncessarily wrong, just not the type of thing they want to indulge in) is well within their rights to distance themselves from from any media that references that behaviour but really I think that acting as if hearing some S Club 7 is gonna transform straight laced individuals into sexual tyranosaurs is somewhat absurd.
Let's put it like this for those who think music will lead people astray, how many Barry White albums will it take to transform you from celibate/monogamous to latter day Cassanova?
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peace
i know we're kind getting offtopic but i wanted to address this dress-code thing
The part where Allah says to' lengthen your garments' ... How do we know how much do lengthen it? In those days women hardly wore anything so what if it meant to at least cover your breasts .. what is the limit? No such limit has been suggested by God so I think in the end it depends on us but obviously keeping it in mind that it should look modest!
The islamic women dress code is this
3359 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would not be recognized and harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.]
Another words when you walk down the street no-one will call you the 4 word that starts with an s or the 5 letter word that starts with a w. And guys usually go after girls who are dressed this way. To avoid being insulted. This is for the protection of women.
On the subject of rap music
Am i missing something or since when there is rap music that doesn't involve a curse word every other second? Sure it maybe out there, but we're talking VAST MINORITY
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On the subject of rap music
Am i missing something or since when there is rap music that doesn't involve a curse word every other second? Sure it maybe out there, but we're talking VAST MINORITY
On the subject of Muslims
Am i missing something or since when there is Muslims that doesn't promote and support terrorism? Sure they maybe out there, but we're talking VAST MINORITY
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Hi Ron Mexico
What does terrorism have to do with music? Could it be a cheap shot since you like rap music so much? Racism will not be tolerated, brother. Since you don't seem to know the basic statistics of the situation YOU brought up let me break it down for you.
of people who call themselves Muslim in this world 1.2 Billion
of people involved in terrorism let's see you got the terrorizing of innocent civilians in Iraq by (guess who?) that would bring the count up 1 plus his administration, let's just round it out to an even 200. They're doing the same thing to the civilians of Afghanistan. Well I counted the administration last time, let me throw in the troops since they're the ones actually carrying out the actions of Haditha Massacre, others like it, Abu Ghraib, killing and maiming innocent children in the street, etc etc. You know the deal I don't have to spell it out for you do I? Back to the simple math we're doing the number is up to 100,200. Don't forget the Allies who are helping out in the supression of others. Let's just bring it up another 50,000. That would be 150,200 so far. Let's not forget the state-sponsored terrorism the zionist state of israel against the muslim and christian Palestinians. That brings it up a good 50,000, most likely more. 200,200 we got so far, hmm it's not looking too good for you, bro. How many of these terrorists are Muslim? Zip.
But who can forget Osama bin Laden and his crew? That would bring the toll up to 1,000, if they're lucky. Wow. 200,200 to a measely 1,000. That's quite impressive by the way that those 1,000 could still operate when the world's superpower is against them. I guess the world's superpower doesn't really care about those loonies. They got their eyes on the prize
Hmm so conclusion 1.2 Billion people who call themselves Muslim vs. 1,000 terrorists.
Am i missing something or since when there is Muslims that doesn't promote and support terrorism? Sure they maybe out there, but we're talking VAST MINORITY
I don't think so. Next time, if you'd like to spread hate, at least get your facts straight so people believe you.
Peace All
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On the subject of Muslims
Am i missing something or since when there is Muslims that doesn't promote and support terrorism? Sure they maybe out there, but we're talking VAST MINORITY
brilliantly thought-out argument !
But then again what else to expect from a close-minded rap apologist...
I could say something racist too and it'd be quite easy to, but i am not a cheap-shot artist.
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On the subject of Muslims
Am i missing something or since when there is Muslims that doesn't promote and support terrorism? Sure they maybe out there, but we're talking VAST MINORITY
brilliantly thought-out argument !
But then again what else to expect from a close-minded rap apologist...
I could say something racist too and it'd be quite easy to, but i am not a cheap-shot artist.
Ehm, I think Ron was being ironic... As in, he applied a common perception of muslims in the same way you applied a common perception of rap music. As we all know, very few muslims are terrorists, and I'm quite sure Ron just wanted to prove a point, not pick a fight or insult anyone. As you don?t seem to know, there is A LOT of curse free rap music. It's far from a vast minority. But then again, if you're not into rap music, you will have a somewhat biased view on this. Just as many people who are not muslims see muslims as terrorists. Ok?
Salam!
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sunNothing haram except said so in al Quran, except by unproper usages
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Erik - is it okay then that i call you names just because you listen to rap? ( i wouldnt by the way) using rap lyrics to 'prove my point' ?
music and religion have no relation and none of my views are biased , my closest friend is into rap....
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I think its common knowledge that most rap songs contain derrogatory words.
If you disagree, please start naming artists who consistently choose to keep their albums clean.
Some of the songs have brilliant messages, but it's covered in dirt. Quite a shame.
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Erik - is it okay then that i call you names just because you listen to rap? ( i wouldnt by the way) using rap lyrics to 'prove my point' ?
music and religion have no relation and none of my views are biased , my closest friend is into rap....
I didn't say it was ok to wrongly accuse a whole group with a special interest of being something bad. I just said that probably, he was being ironic, something which is not to be taken as a serious opinion. However, irony in written form can be VERY hard to grasp (as we have seen MANY examples of).
By the way, that is a very very bold statement from your side. "... none of my views are biased...". I will never be able to say that, since I believe that ALL my views are biased in one way or another.
Salam! /Erik
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I think its common knowledge that most rap songs contain derrogatory words.
If you disagree, please start naming artists who consistently choose to keep their albums clean.
Some of the songs have brilliant messages, but it's covered in dirt. Quite a shame.
Salam.
I agree.
There are bunch of rap artists and their songs are loaded with strong sub-text of you know what and many songs are full of bad language but at the same time, these songs, such as from 50 Cent, Eminem, ..... are also such songs which tlak about real life, they send us messages that are saying, you know, we're not just singing about poverty, injustive or bad stuff, these things are real and are happening.Eminem mentioning Bush in his song, 50 cent lifting weights in jail, Micheal jackson singing in jail, .....
The list goes on and on.
Salam. -
Peace
I think we can all agree that listening to derrogatory words for an average of 3 minutes over and over again doesn't do a bit of good for us.
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peace
its not about obsession, its about the music being constructive, if the songs have cuss words you are likely to cuss which is sinful. If the songs are about slapping somebody's you know who the thoughts will only lead to evil... I dont think there's anything wrong w/ listening to music a lot or excessively. As long as the person does his religious duties, remembers God frequently and observes righteousness
4144 O you who believe, do not take the rejecters as allies instead of the believers. Do you want God to have a reason against you?
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...DANG!
http//www.islamawareness.net/Music/prohibited.html
Everyone, please read that link, and realize how that EVEN IN THE SUNNI RELIGION MUSIC CANNOT BE DECLARED HARAM NO MATTER WHAT ANY SCHOLAR OR RANDOM SUNNI MUSLIM THINKS. The author of the article makes a rather good point all throughout, and I love how he brought up the hadith which states David was given a MUSICAL INSTRUMENT. If MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS are haram, then he would NOT be given one from GOD to ACTUALLY USE, and what's rather funny is that the radical hadithites say that only the simple tambourine is halal...such is their nonsensical opinion (or fatwa) regarding this matter.
The illogical imams also argue "THEY (tambourines) are HALAL ONLY DURING WEDDINGS AND ON EID!"
So David only played his instrument on weddings and on Eid? Yeah right. laugh
They'll also use the hadith where Ibn Abbas translates "idle talk" (lahwal hadith) to MUSIC and even swearing by it.
This again joins the rumble of ahadith conflicting one another on the issue of music, not to mention "lawhal hadith" in actuality means "baseless hadith" and actually refers to the hadith in discussion right now, since after all they conflict one another and are thus GARBAGE.
Some also say tambourines are only ok on weddings, and on Eid, and David's instrument has nothing to do with this issue! o
This is just a reflection of their bias towards and idolization of Muhammad that they're well known for. )
They also say this because supposedly in this case, since and only since the psalms/musical instrument given to David were "holy" and given to him by God, they are ok but EVERYTHING ELSE (but the tambourine rotfl) IS HARAM!
Case in point, they even claim men using them is haram because according to the "sunna" only women used them, therefore men would be imitating women if they used them. Amazingly retarded if you ask me. Why would you rest your fate and religion on these retards? laugh
-M
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Salaam.
Listening to music is not hara, but it can become haram, if one gets consumed by it. Like, if the music becomes an obssession or soemthing or if a person starts to go over the limit.
Of course, Allah Most Merciful knows best.
Salaam.I agree that some rap music is bad, actually, very bad, and is being played by impressionable teenagers and pre-teens who then use the words, or act out the words in an inappropriate way. But most music is good for you.