The quraan states that the jews & christians have rejected the sanctity of Kaaba
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belh-Obviously, You are clueless in Arabic.
The place where the action of the verb takes place is named after the verb; and if the action of "Kom" (Stand) according to the verse takes place in Kaber (Grave) " ", THEREFORE, the PLACE CAN BE CALLED MAKAM.This to fix the above mistake
I guess u are simply posting stuff u don't at all understand. Here's a little assistance
If u stand at a place, that place will be ur maqaam;
If u stand at herod's qabr, herod's qabr will be ur maqaam....it will not be herod's maqaam.
I could excuse ur lack of arabic, but how do i excuse somebody's lack of common sense.
Furher, u urself said that makam = stand & tomb = qabr; then why these inventions? Is it because u want to never answer somebody's question? -)
In case u need more assitance, know that qabr = burial place; a tomb or mausoleum is called a maqbara.
The rest of ur post is evidently meritless as ur very first claim itself is false.
& u have still not explained why u lied about "makam ibrahim" being written on those tombs? Maybe u should reconsider ur invocation.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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If u stand at a place, that place will be ur maqaam;
rotfl
hypno Do you mean the Bus Station is my Makam? How about te other people wo stand in the same spot, should te place be named after all the people names?
Do you mean that each Grave the prophet Mohamed Stood on is Makam Mohamed? Well, I know that there is one Makam to Prophet Mohamed...In Madina ! His Grave !If u stand at herod's qabr, herod's qabr will be ur maqaam....it will not be herod's maqaam.
;D I stood in many Graves...thus, based on you, I have hundreds Makams.
The rest of ur post is evidently meritless as ur very first claim itself is false.
Including this One
Now WHAT IS THE SIGN AND THE TRACE OF ABRAHAM IN MECCA? The answer that you are running away from is
THERE IS NO TRACE OF ABRAHAM IN MECCA
I Hope that was big enough for you to see.
nope
& u have still not explained why u lied about "makam ibrahim" being written on those tombs? Maybe u should reconsider ur invocation.
yes If you visit any Grave of a known Prophet, You will note the word "MAKAM before his name"
Here is a Google Visit...please note that te Word Makam is used to referance to the Grave.
http//www.google.com/custom?q=%D8%B5%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%A9+%D9%85%D9%82%D8%A7%D9%85+%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B1%D8%B3%D9%88%D9%84&language=en&sa.x=37&sa.y=7&client=pub-1712545686841324&forid=1&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BLH%3A50%3BLW%3A121%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Flogos%2FLogo_40wht.gif%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2F%3BFORID%3A1&hl=en
I hope you can answer my Question that I over sized its Font....The trace of Abraham in Mecca.
Moreover, ask yourself a question, why non of the prophet companions paid any attention to Mecca as they did to Jerusalem...int Omar Built a Mosqe there but not even a wall in Mecca.
I hope you will think and ask yourself...WHY?Here is the Picture of Makam Abraham according to you
http//www.alhsa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2482
Peace -
belh-Do you mean the Bus Station is my Makam? How about te other people wo stand in the same spot, should te place be named after all the people names?
Do you mean that each Grave the prophet Mohamed Stood on is Makam Mohamed? Well, I know that there is one Makam to Prophet Mohamed...In Madina His GraveRight. Maqaam is, literally, ur place. It is not surprising that u are unaware of something so elementary. And that explains a lot. -)
-I stood in many Graves...thus, based on you, I have hundreds Makams.
If u stand in many graves, u are probably an undertaker. Of course, there are other options.
And, if u insist on equating ur maqaam with ur qabr, urz will be a sorry story. -)
-If you visit any Grave of a known Prophet, You will note the word "MAKAM before his name"
Let us talk about the claim u made -- that on a tomb in the killer's shrine is written in arabic "makam ibrahim". Do u realise what that implies?
Of course, u made a false claim, & v can guess why. -)
-I hope you can answer my Question that I over sized its Font....The trace of Abraham in Mecca.
Moreover, ask yourself a question, why non of the prophet companions paid any attention to Mecca as they did to Jerusalem...int Omar Built a Mosqe there but not even a wall in Mecca.
I hope you will think and ask yourself...WHY?I hope u are satisfied with the sunnah of umar. Very caring he was about the sentiment of jews. Good for u. A favorable patron u have sought out. -)
On the other hand, if u can find any records of the prophet in jerusalem then please bring them forward.
Had ur invocation been sincere, u would have considered the fact that the revisionist theory is almost universally rejected, by muslim & non-muslim researchers alike. & that crone & cook, who made the "muhammad was not in mecca" fable popular, have disowned much of their own theory. Amusing how well a heresy was lapped up. -)
Ask urself, why did they disown their own claim? And why do their followers still propogate a heresy. -)
-I hope this will clear the misunderstanding
That was sad. On two counts 1. u are given to heresy big time. 2. u cannot look beyond sunni-shiites & jews-christians.
I reckon u are not very proud about the history of ur proposed bayt, & these are desperate measures. I have seen that before. -)
But to ur credit, I can safely state that u were unaware of the history of the tombs. Imagine revering a killer's shrine & its unidentified tombs, & calling it the bayt of God. Would u go thus far to uphold biblical legends? -)
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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thegod That was sad. On two counts 1. u are given to heresy big time. 2. u cannot look beyond sunni-shiites & jews-christians.
That was sad. On two counts 1. u are given to hearsay big time. 2. u cannot look beyond sunni-shiites & jews-christians. grin
ma'a salaam.
God bless all
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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Peace
Right. Maqaam is, literally, ur place. It is not surprising that u are unaware of something so elementary. And that explains a lot. -)
And, if u insist on equating ur maqaam with ur qabr, urz will be a sorry story. -)
Are you for real?
Makam of Name = Grave of Name
I challenge you to Show me Makam person equal to place of standing (except Makam Abraham for the reason we all know); here is a Google search for the word Makam
http//www.google.com/custom?q=%D8%B5%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%A9+%D9%85%D9%82%D8%A7%D9%85+%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B1%D8%B3%D9%88%D9%84&language=en&sa.x=37&sa.y=7&client=pub-1712545686841324&forid=1&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BLH%3A50%3BLW%3A121%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Flogos%2FLogo_40wht.gif%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2F%3BFORID%3A1&hl=en
What a sorry story.
On the other hand, if u can find any records of the prophet in jerusalem then please bring them forward.
Search Jerusalem and you will find hundreds of them there...especially Abraham (Makam Abraham)
Had ur invocation been sincere, u would have considered the fact that the revisionist theory is almost universally rejected, by muslim & non-muslim researchers alike. & that crone & cook, who made the "muhammad was not in mecca" fable popular, have disowned much of their own theory. Amusing how well a heresy was lapped up. -)
Can you tell me "if you are an educated person, is this a Foot Print of Left and right foot or Left and Left Foot"
http//i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv334/belh/Hrmen186.gif
Do you want me to disown my God Given Brain and accept that the above Photo is Makam Abraham?
Peace
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belh-Makam of Name = Grave of Name
- That is poetic. & nonsense. Let's call it poetic nonsense. grin
Are u ever going to put forward something sensible? -)
-I challenge you to Show me Makam person equal to place of standing (except Makam Abraham for the reason we all know); here is a Google search for the word Makam
What a sorry story.
- Let me state this very plainly The tomb in the killer's shrine is not known as "makam ibrahim". Obviously, u have no idea what ur lie about arabic "makam ibrahim" leads to.
I am okay if u want to be loyal to biblical legends, but why to go to the extent of lying?
Now that u have been unable to justify ur lie, here is a place that is called "makam ibrahim" (apart from the one in mecca) the cave of abraham in turkey. Legend holds that it was the birthplace of abraham. How stark the difference.
Cave of Abraham
Also known as Makam Ibrahim, within the mosque of Mevlud Halil there is the cave where local Moslem legend places the birth of Abraham.If u want to take up "makam ibrahim" as ur holy place, then why don't u take this one? Atleast, it doesn't seem to have anything to do with an infant-slayer & unidentified tombs. -)
-Search Jerusalem and you will find hundreds of them there...especially Abraham (Makam Abraham)
Why don't u show records of muhammad in the city of shalim?
I asked u to show the shalim's den in the quraan, & u couldn't. & u will not be able this time either. -)
-Can you tell me "if you are an educated person, is this a Foot Print of Left and right foot or Left and Left Foot"
Do you want me to disown my God Given Brain and accept that the above Photo is Makam Abraham?
How sad ur atempts are; 4 pages into this & u are still talking about footprints & tombs. & each page brings up some new & absured lie. Not have u been able to make credible any of ur lies, nor will u be able to make credible this lie. -)
I want u to uphold what u already do uphold a garbage rock & a killer's shrine.
The killer's shrine & the garbage rock is already holy to the jews, so neither of them can be the bayt which the people of the book deny. I guess revering a garbage rock & a killer's shrine sits well with the rejecters (39
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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Peace
-I challenge you to Show me Makam person equal to place of standing (except Makam Abraham for the reason we all know); here is a Google search for the word Makam
What a sorry story.
- Let me state this very plainly The tomb in the killer's shrine is not known as "makam ibrahim".
Do you know why the Grave of Abraham in Jerusalem is not known by Makam Abraham? Because the Suni Moslem in Jerusalem and in the Moslem world identify The Foot Print Rock in Macca as Makam Abraham. However, the Suni and Shia Arabs Call every other single Grave "Makam" as I showed you in Google search but you ignored because it supports my opinion and refute yours yes
I am okay if u want to be loyal to biblical legends, but why to go to the extent of lying?
Is it other than God?s system that they desire, when those in the heavens and the Earth have submitted to Him voluntarily or by force? And to Him they will be returned.
383Say ?We believe in God and what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We do not make any distinction between them, and to Him we submit.?
384And whoever follows other than submission as a system, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter he is of the losers.
385And that is what I'm following the System of believing in Quran, Bible, and Torah But you obviously DO NOT. You are rejecting the Bible and the Torah and upholding the Hadith instead; and according to God
it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter he is of the losers.
yes LOSER
Why don't u show records of muhammad in the city of shalim?
So you agree that there are hundreds of traces to hundreds of Prophets in Jerusalem, including The Father of Prophets Abraham. As far as the record of Prophet Mohamed, all of us know that his grave is in Madina and He Fought against the Roman to free Jerusalem. If you do not believe this, pay a visit to Jordan and visit the graves of thousands of the Prophets Companion' who fought with Him to Free Jerusalem; and in the same time, ask yourself, where are the graves of those who fought to Free Mecca?
I asked u to show the shalim's den in the quraan, & u couldn't. & u will not be able this time either. -)
Unless you complete your Islam by believing in The Bible and Torah, you will never understand or know the location of God's House That is In BAKAH and not MACCA, per the Quran verse that is confirmed by the Bible and Torah.
I want u to uphold what u already do uphold a garbage rock & a killer's shrine.
Unless you believe that the Garbage rock is Makam Abraham as Suni and Shia do, you have no other ground to proof that Macca is the place where Makam Abraham exist.
Therefore, unless you show me other proof about the Landmark of "Makam Abraham" in Macca, you are wasting my time.The killer's shrine & the garbage rock is already holy to the jews, so neither of them can be the bayt which the people of the book deny. I guess revering a garbage rock & a killer's shrine sits well with the rejecters (39
That is How 3;98 says
Fact One
The first Dwelling established for the people is the one in Bakk?a, blessed, and a guidance for the worlds.
396Fact Two and three
In it are clear signs the situation of Abraham. And whoever enters it will be secure. And God is owed from the people to make Pilgrimage to the Dwelling, whoever can make a path to it. And whoever rejects, then God has no need of the worlds.
397Fact Five, if you reject the above facts BAKAH, MAKAM ABRAHAM, SECURITY TO WHOM ENTER, then the following is said by God
Say ?O people of the Scripture, why do you reject God?s signs, while God is witness over what you do??
398And I will say it to You WHY DO YOU REJECT GOD's CLEAR SIGNS that prove Bakah to be the House and Not Mecca.
I'm done with you.
Peace -
belh-Do you know why the Grave of Abraham in Jerusalem is not known by Makam Abraham? Because the Suni Moslem in Jerusalem and in the Moslem world identify The Foot Print Rock in Macca as Makam Abraham. However, the Suni and Shia Arabs Call every other single Grave "Makam" as I showed you in Google search but you ignored because it supports my opinion and refute yours
- A sad liar ur words are proving u to be. It was ur claim that on a tomb in the killer's shrine is written in arabic "makam ibrahim". Why did u make this claim? Not only can u not substantiate it (& how can anybody substantiate a lie?), u are plunging further into lies.
Anyway, ur poetic nonsense apart, when can v see u in turkey? -)
-And that is what I'm following the System of believing in Quran, Bible, and Torah But you obviously DO NOT. You are rejecting the Bible and the Torah and upholding the Hadith instead; and according to God
- Another sad lie. To uphold the testaments u are discovering new depths. -)
-Unless you complete your Islam by believing in The Bible and Torah, you will never understand or know the location of God's House That is In BAKAH and not MACCA, per the Quran verse that is confirmed by the Bible and Torah.
- Yes, u cannot be successful unless u be a jew or a christian. I have heard that before; where....hmm. grin
For all u are lies, u have not been able to locate shalim's den in the quraan. Nor have u shown evidence of muhammad in jerusalem. Nor have u provided evidence that shalim's city was ever called becca. Nor that the arabic quraan was revealed in jerusalem. Nor have u produced in the testaments the narrative where abraham & ishamel build the bayt. How do u live with so many failures? -)
Consider this -- That muhammad was in mecca is well-accepted by non-muslim & muslims researchers. It was crone who challenged this with her speculations, & placed muhammad in the north of arabia. Years later she has admitted that she took a false turn, but her sad puppies continue to propogate her false theories, trying to locate muhammad in the north. -)
I have already provided crone's confession, why then do u turn north....i mean "away"?
Tell me -- why do u reject all availabe records in favor of an opinion which it's holder herself has disowned. Why are u chasing a failed hypothesis ?
Josef Van Ess argued that
"a refutation is perhaps unnecessary since the authors make no effort to prove it (the hypothesis of the book) in detailWhere they are only giving a new interpretation of well-known facts, this is not decisive. But where the accepted facts are consciously put upside down, their approach is disastrous."R. B. Sergeant informs that
"Hagarismis not only bitterly anti-Islamic in tone, but anti-Arabian. Its superficial fancies are so ridiculous that at first one wonders if it is just a leg pull, pure spoof."What enmity do u have with the kaaba? I can understand the jews-christians rejecting it (39, but u....does that mean....?
And which have u chosen as ur holy place -- "makam ibrahim" in turkey, or "the unidentified tombs" in the infant-slayer's shrine? -)
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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Peace,
Could 'makam Ibrahim' mean Ibrahim's standing? Ibrahim is respected by Jews, Christians and Muslims as an upstanding guy. I was reading 'The Arab Conspiracy' by Aidid Safar and he made some logical arguments to this effect. I would recommend reading it to get some different perspectives.
God Bless!
Said -
smmirza-Could 'makam Ibrahim' mean Ibrahim's standing? Ibrahim is respected by Jews, Christians and Muslims as an upstanding guy. I was reading 'The Arab Conspiracy' by Aidid Safar and he made some logical arguments to this effect. I would recommend reading it to get some different perspectives.
- The "standing" of abraham is well-accepted by the jews & christians; it is the "standing" of ishmael & muhammad that they have well-rejected.
The historicity of muhammad is perhaps better attested to than that of any other prophet, moses & jesus included. This does not sit well with the jews & christians, & hence attempts like "hagarism".
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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smmirza-I fail to understand how you are so sure that Kaaba is God's house and is sacred. Do you have any verses in the Quran that you could share?
- The kaaba is the bayt as per the quraan (597)
From an earlier dialogue between us
-Which implies that you believe that the Kaaba is something holy/special/venerated.
- The kaaba is special/blessed as per the quraan (396)
Do u have an alternate translation?
Also, from the quraan the bayt can be traced to abraham & ishmael (2127). & v know that the ""standing" of ishmael & muhammad has been rejected by the jews & christians; then, the aversion of the rejectors (397) is along expected lines.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen