How To Identify Your Messengers From Allah
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Allah sends continuously His Messengers to every nation, cities and towns until the last day to teach the Book, to impart Wisdom and iman; to purify the mind; to guide; and to dissolve the dispute in matters of life. Another important point is that the messengers to every nation are chosen from their own people, speaking their own languages. All messengers chosen by Allah are very well known to their people as they are always men who lived among them for a long, long time. Mostly the messengers were pagans before they were chosen and thus were as their brethren. Like Ibrahim who was a pagan before he was chosen as the messenger of Allah, and who used to live with them as a brethren of a community indulging in paganism or idol worship; and mostly, every messenger has such sunnah of Allah.
11 25 And certainly We sent Nuh to his people
11 50 And to Aad We sent their brother Hud.
11 61 And to Samood We sent their brother Salih
11 84 And to Madyan We sent their brother Shu'aibBefore each of them were chosen as messengers, mostly they were of this nature which Allah reveals as follows.
42 52 And thus did We reveal to you the book of inspiration by Our command. You did not know what the Book was, nor the Iman. But We made it a light, guiding thereby whom We please of Our servants; and most surely you show the way to the right path.
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Allah sends continuously His Messengers to every nation, cities and towns until the last day to teach the Book, to impart Wisdom and iman; to purify the mind; to guide; and to dissolve the dispute in matters of life. Another important point is that the messengers to every nation are chosen from their own people, speaking their own languages. All messengers chosen by Allah are very well known to their people as they are always men who lived among them for a long, long time. Mostly the messengers were pagans before they were chosen and thus were as their brethren. Like Ibrahim who was a pagan before he was chosen as the messenger of Allah, and who used to live with them as a brethren of a community indulging in paganism or idol worship; and mostly, every messenger has such sunnah of Allah.
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Drfazl brings up an interesting concept. (I dont believe that drfazl is saying that new messages will come thru new prophets/Anbia/messangers). We usually confuse the issue of message bearer of Rab with the Anbia whom God had chosen to streamline and thus send his message and commands. No more Anbia will come or needed any more as God has saved his message from being lost anymore. Now message bearer will continue to come forward to remind the people of the same message which Rab send thru his Anbias including the last and final, seal of Anbia, Prophet Mohammed (S). The purpose of the message bearer in every city and town in different times will be to remind people of the same message as was revealed to the last Nabi Mohammed (S) and all Anbia before him, as Rabs fundamental message has never changed. These message reminding people will continue to remind their brothers and sisters in their respective societies about the unchanging message of Rab, as humans keep going towards low grounds leaving the high grounds for which Rab created the humans.
954Indeed, We have created the human being in the best design (and with the potential to grow the ?self?.)
955Then We turn him to the lowest of low.
956Except those who have chosen to be graced with belief, and work to increase the human potential - theirs is a reward unending
( Translation taken from Shabbir Ahmad of ourbeacon.com )
The unchanging message is described in the very begining of the Al'Qur'Aan.
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Can some one help me with the understanding of the above verse. Here I feel that Rab is stating a fact that the message given to the Prophet Mohammed (S) is the same as before him and will be same to the end (Akhira) and hence we should believe in it all till the end. = before and after (the time of the last Nabi, Mohammed (S) till the end (Akhira meaning is explained in Lanes in a detailed manner)
Although no more Anbia are needed now, message bearer, bearing the same message left by the last Nabi, Mohammed (S) and other Anbia before him (although lost its details in time) will continue to lead the cities and town ( I wish we all could act as messangers carrying the message of Rab as revealed in it entirity to the last prophet Mohammed (S) rather than just a few).
I feel that Akhira above in 24 describes "till the end of time."
Any thoughts?
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The advanced world today is not the world of 1500 years ago. And the world after 1500 years from now will be unimaginably different and shall be totally unsuitable to the human ideas, concepts and philosophies that we entertain today except one the one unchangeable straight path, - the Message and the Revelation of the Creator and the Protector that will be the Only Light that delivers the people from their utter darkness whether they were a people of ages before or are a people of far advanced worlds! Hence it is time that people of the worlds identify the messengers of their tongues as definitely as they know their own kith and kin. Return to the pages of the Book, Al Quran!
6 20 Those to whom We have given the Book know this as they know their own sons. Those who have lost their own souls refuse therefore to believe.
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Why so many repetitions? Allah knows what is in the hearts of the people; and He knows what they hide and what they openly say. Unless it is a open show for others it is unnecessary to repeat it so many times. We have to seek forgiveness from Allah in silence; and show our obedience by following.
Who disagreed with this? Any lack of coherence? One request! Please write in common language so that we respect people of all languages and faiths. Allah will definitely be pleased only when we are clear in our expressions to others that hear to us. And for sure He will not be pleased with the above cut and paste.
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4034
"And to you there came Joseph in times gone by, with Clear Signs, but ye ceased not to doubt of the (Mission) for which he had come At length, when he died, ye said 'no messenger will allah send after him.' thus doth allah leave to stray such as transgress and live in doubt,-hypno
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4034
"And to you there came Joseph in times gone by, with Clear Signs, but ye ceased not to doubt of the (Mission) for which he had come At length, when he died, ye said 'no messenger will allah send after him.' thus doth allah leave to stray such as transgress and live in doubt,-hypno
That is a clear ayat that speaks volumes about the evil nature of the hadith writers and compilers; and this ayat is a deterrent for the believers to be aware of and also beware of the hadith followers. There is no doubt O Mankind, the messengers will follow Muhammad in every language, in all nations, in all cities and in towns so that on the day of judgment each of you shall not say "Had there been a messenger sent to us we would not have been in to this."
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The one thing , however we need to be clear and careful, is the definition of messanger. As long as it is Qu'Aan bearer, in the form as left by Mohammed(S),he or she will be a vice to him and all Anbia before ( as a message bearer ), as the message in Qur'Aan is complete and was perfected by our Rab. The problem with above terminology of messanger is that we see claims from all over the world ( in both so called muslim and non muslim world ) as claiming as next messanger who is in verbal or some sort of contact with Rab and thus creating yet another cult and a set of followers.
As long as the message bearer can say that I am asking you to come to the same message as was given to all Anbia and ask them to visit Qur'Aan ( since it is the only script preserved to date in its entirity ) with a non biased opinion, without addition or deletion, then it would be fine. The problem starts when we start giving meanings to the Ayat with stories and believes, which helps them to appear as superior compared to others. We then loose the real message and loose the audience who may otherwise listen.
We thus have to go back to the linguistics to realize that it is in fact a universal formula to economise the struggle by the humans to alleviate the human suffering, and to increase human potential, without any one claiming necessarily the supremacy of the message bearer of his society as God or as "the"man of God, rather than the supremacy of the Creator. Prophet Mohammed(S) is told in Qur'Aan to tell people over and over again that he is only a message bearer,like others before, and a warner. Th Qur'Aan message is in Arabi language, meaning thereby, an easy to understang tongue, so there is no confusion. It is we who has created confusion, because each group or section of society wants its supremacy, and thus adds to the meaning of Qur'Aan/ the universal message of our Rab, with its own leader. It is interesting to note in Lanes to see the meaning for Al'Qur'Aan, if broken separately, would be "The one I established". And it is clearly a book of system established by the Creator.
Let us go back to the central theme of the Qur'Aan, and let all human have one nucleus around which to go, and that is our Creator. For undersatanding as to how to go about it, we are lucky to have Qur'Aan as an unaltered script. Let us go over Qur'Aan letter by letter without preconceived notions and we will realize that the message has always been an easy concept to understand. We take it or leave it, is upto humans, but the result will be you get the same crop as what you sow as your seed.
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Why so many repetitions? Allah knows what is in the hearts of the people; and He knows what they hide and what they openly say. Unless it is a open show for others it is unnecessary to repeat it so many times. We have to seek forgiveness from Allah in silence; and show our obedience by following.
Who disagreed with this? Any lack of coherence? One request! Please write in common language so that we respect people of all languages and faiths. Allah will definitely be pleased only when we are clear in our expressions to others that hear to us. And for sure He will not be pleased with the above cut and paste.
the Message and the Revelation of the Creator and the Protector that will be the Only Light that delivers the people from their utter darkness whether they were a people of ages before or are a people of far advanced worlds! Hence it is time that people of the worlds identify the messengers of their tongues as definitely as they know their own kith and kin. Return to the pages of the Book, Al Quran!
And this is the common language for all times to come, these are from the pages of Al Quran, not hadith and gossip
And this is the verdict of Allah about His Messengers about whom you said something which none of the pagans in the world could dare say about them. Only Munafiqeen, worst people than pagans, have said in the past that thing about the Messengers.
And this is something that should be done quite repetitively.
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And this is the common language for all times to come, these are from the pages of Al Quran, not hadith and gossip
And this is the verdict of Allah about His Messengers about whom you said something which none of the pagans in the world could dare say about them. Only Munafiqeen, worst people than pagans, have said in the past that thing about the Messengers.
Again repeating the same mistake! Which is the common language in the above reply? In the blue? Or in the red? Do not confuse yourself! If blue is the common language, then do not write anything in red as above. It is as good as not being there which deserves no reply. If at all there is a discussion in an open forum, it is for others of all linguistic people also. We must respect everyone that visit here for Quran. Speak in a language that is common for the common man to judge between the points and take up the best for each of their lives. Instead of unnecessarily uttering words speak up the meaning in common language, so that people shall know who is who; and what is what; and where we are!
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Things being discussed are with reference to Grand Quran. And the language of the Quran is Arabic. In response to what you stated in the thread, which is NOT Quran, but opinion in your own words, I quoted the words of Quran in original which states the position of the Messengers.
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Some messengers know only some others; not all of them in their contemporary times!
4 164
And messengers We have mentioned to you before and messengers we have not mentioned to you; and to Musa, Allah addressed His Word, speakingAnd to Musa, Allah spoke direct does not mean that he has not spoken to any other prophet direct including prophet Esa or Muhammad; and no one should ever think that Allah will not talk to any person other than Musa direct. Here we understand from one of the ayats that Allah speaks to every person in three ways one, direct as wahy; two from a source invisible to your eyes as from behind a veil e.g., a tree - in the same way He talked to Musa; and thirdly conveys His glad tidings and warnings to every community by choosing messengers from among its own people in their towns and cities and in their capital cities and who live as their brethren for a long time, speaking their respective languages.
In 4 164, Allah says to His every messenger the same He has informed the rest of all the other messengers from the time the first messengers were chosen all through the world. While to some, some of the messengers were thus made known, some others were not made known to some others; - like in the case of Ibrahim and Lut they knew each other as messengers of neighboring places while they knew not others around the world.
Here is another instance in 36 20! Some fourth messenger comes running from far off distance in support of the three messengers who were already serving the message of his Lord. The fourth one was made known to the three other messengers only when he presented himself before them; yet there were many more messengers out there and elsewhere in various parts of the worlds.
In the case of Firaun, a man from his society who kept concealed his Iman all the while finally comes out against Firaun as a messenger with the words "O my people! Follow me I will lead you to the Path of Right." It is then Musa and Harun shall know the messenger within the society of Firaun.
We fear Allah and look up to Him haply we might be shown who our messengers are right now and may Allah make us come together wherever we are. All we have to do is to advance towards the Truth doing good deeds and seeking His forgiveness all the while.
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Things being discussed are with reference to Grand Quran. And the language of the Quran is Arabic. In response to what you stated in the thread, which is NOT Quran, but opinion in your own words, I quoted the words of Quran in original which states the position of the Messengers.
This is why asked you to speak in the common language. If not Quran, then why so? Opinion means what you had understood of the ayats of Quran in your own words. If you have no opinions of your own where is the question of expression and exchange of ideas, only that by which we can advance? This is a forum for original opinions as true as when one finds the ayats yielding fruits in his personal life I suppose. To cut and paste is not what we do here. I am sorry, you are not in line.
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Most Prophets were chosen from the pagan community
Ibrahim's father Azar was an idol worshiper; and as Azar named him as Ibrahim, - must be a name prevalent in his idol worshiping community. Ibrahim indeed should have been brought up as an idol worshiper like the hindu community of today. But then Ibrahim used his sense of understanding and applied his mind in the soul searching thoughts to get at what and who and which the god is! The exercise that he applied upon the then considered gods like the stars, the moon and the sun proved that they did not have the consistency and thus they all fell into oblivion; and was ashamed at the fact that the idols they worshiped could not see, hear or speak, he broke them all except the one big idol to make others see for themselves that the big god was a dumb. Finally, as the wahy - the intuition dawned upon him to follow the One Who Created The Entire Heavens and The Earth and Everything in between, he shifter his stance to the real and truthful Allah and said "My God is the One Who is the God of the Heavens and the Earth!" The birth of the new world started with him. Now The Almighty's order comes upon Ibrahim, that he shall say the Truth to his father and to his clan - "Give them the Good News and deter them from all the gods and falsehood without fear. Ibrahim, belonging to the pagan community was chosen as a Prophet and as a Messenger. His name was not changed; when he was in the community of pagans or after he changed faith his name has been the same. A pagan name turned out to be the now so called muslim name.
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Salam.
Believed that a Messenger from Allah can be identified when he is delivering the Message from Allah, hence delivering the message is the primary function of a Messenger.
Arberry 3971 Then the unbelievers shall be driven in companies into Gehenna till, when they have come thither, then its gates will be opened and its keepers will say to them, 'Did not Messengers come to you from among yourselves, reciting to you the signs of your Lord and warning you against the encounter of this your day?' They shall say, 'Yes indeed; but the word of the chastisement has been realized against the unbelievers.'
Do also note the response from Salleh's Followers when asked about the "credibility" of a messenger
Arberry 775 Said the Council of those of his people who waxed proud to those that were abased, to those of them who believed, 'Do you know that Salih is an Envoy from his Lord?' They said, 'In the Message he has been sent with we are believers.'
In my opinion...its what the messenger/envoy said is important..rather than focusing on who is the messenger.
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Most Prophets were chosen from the pagan community
All messengers chosen by Allah are very well known to their people as they are always men who lived among them for a long, long time.
Peace
149 Did not news come to you of those before you the people of Noah, and ?Aad, and Thamud, and those after them whom none know but God? Their messengers came to them with clarity, but they placed their hands to their mouths and said ?We are rejecting what you have been sent with, and we are in grave doubt as to what you are inviting us to.?
1491410Their messengers said ?Is there doubt regarding God, the initiator of the heavens and the Earth? He invites you so that He may forgive some of your sins, and grant you until a predetermined time.? They said ?You are but humans like us, you wish to turn us away from what our fathers used to serve. So come to us with clear proof.?
14101411 Their messengers said ?We are but humans like you, but God will bestow His grace upon whom He pleases from His servants. And it is not up to us to bring you proof except by God?s leave. And in God the believers should place their trust?
14111412 ?And why should we not place our trust in God, when He has guided us our path. And we will be patient to the harm you inflict upon us. And in God those who trust should put their trust.?
14121413 And those who rejected said to their messengers ?We will drive you out of our land, or you will return to our religion .? It was then that their Lord inspired to them ?We will destroy the wicked.?
1413The above verses and many others support your opinions.
Moreover, any one can choose to be a Messenger of God, simply by Delivering God's Messages and confront the Wicked religious Lords who manipulate God's Messages. And if He or She choose such a dangerous Mission, and God ACCEPTS HIM OR HER, Then God will bring Him or Her among the Witnesses in the Day of Judgment.
And Finally, God's Massages are the Ones that are Known to us (Marrofa), which are in God's Books (i.e., the Original Quran, Injeel and Torah). In other words, there is no new Messages.
And it is very important to Know one Condition, that is The New Ones (Messengers) Whom will be accepted by God arenone know but God.
Peace
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Peace
The above verses and many others support your opinions.
Moreover, any one can choose to be a Messenger of God, simply by Delivering God's Messages and confront the Wicked religious Lords who manipulate God's Messages. And if He or She choose such a dangerous Mission, and God ACCEPTS HIM OR HER, Then God will bring Him or Her among the Witnesses in the Day of Judgment.
And Finally, God's Massages are the Ones that are Known to us (Marrofa), which are in God's Books (i.e., the Original Quran, Injeel and Torah). In other words, there is no new Messages.
And it is very important to Know one Condition, that is The New Ones (Messengers) Whom will be accepted by God arePeace
May His Wisdom be upon His bondmen! Just the blue portion of your above post prompts this response. Is it not that choosing messengers is His? Unless Allah authorizes one from His choice with a clear Sign of Wisdom from the Book and that by which he lives as a model before others, there is no way he shall be considered as special. Now he could preach The Way he leads his life in the Path of Allah; and he could admonish or warn his people of his language with the Good News from Allah. If you have any verse contradicting my point of view, I am eager to see that ayat. Your help is well appreciated.
Salaam
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none know but God.
Peace
Who Will Identify The Message and The Messenger
Salaam,
The hidden meanings of the ayats of Quran - revealed and taught to a chosen messenger from among the people of a community of a particular place at any point of time as and when necessary is the Truthful Guidance from Allah. The wahy or the revelation is spread in the space round the globe as is spelt to the messenger. The wahy - the Guidance dispersed in the space and air at the same point of time of revelation, is imbibed by the people who ponder, by the righteous - world over! This is the beginning of the new Era, with the Messenger and the righteous people who shall lend their ears to the messenger's words of guidance; for they know that the revelation is the Truth from their God; and whoso speaks the message so boldly and clearly without fear should be none other than a messenger from Allah. And they are so sure of this as they know their own kin. These are the righteous endowed with the knowledge of the Book, even before the messenger starts revealing the revelation.
Yet there are kafirs who reject pondering and their distinguishing faculties e.g., the criterion; but who simply follow their forefathers and their rituals. It is such of these who can neither identify their messengers nor will be able to accept their messages. At this point comes this message from their God.
13 43
And those who disbelieve say "You are not a messenger!" Say"Allah is sufficient as a witness between me and you and whoever has knowledge of the Book..
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Thanks lolli, for your citation of the ayat 39 71
Arberry 3971 Then the unbelievers shall be driven in companies into Gehenna till, when they have come thither, then its gates will be opened and its keepers will say to them, 'Did not Messengers come to you from among yourselves, reciting to you the signs of your Lord and warning you against the encounter of this your day?' They shall say, 'Yes indeed; but the word of the chastisement has been realized against the unbelievers.'
In this ayat the guardians of the hell ask the people of hell about to enter it, gathered from every corner of the world from the time of the origin of man till the last day "Oh each of you! From wherever you are; whatever be your nations and towns and cities and villages and capitals that you dwelt in - Did not the messengers from your clan and community, speaking your own language and who lived among you for long time as your brethren in your community delivering the message of this Day?"
Hence on that fateful eternal moment we will not be asked why we did not follow the single Messenger; but the messengers all over the world who were present at all times till the end of the world.
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