How To Identify Your Messengers From Allah
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Salaam
Drfazl is right when he says
Shun the human arabic; their grammar; their lexicons; the past of it; the present of it; and the future of human arabic! Get at the Wahy! He is the Only Alim; Turn to Him alone for Guidance from Quran.
It is our verbal statement but practically ,all of us (Including me) including DrFzal use these elements . A huge contrast.
Some are using Hadiths
Some are using Dictionaries
Some are using Code 19
Some are using inscriptions
Some are using varying combinations of them.Regards
Q_student,
Salaam.I understand we have to use dictionaries to get a primary and preliminary idea in general before applying on them the much required pondering, scrutiny and reflection. Does it mean contrasting? And a huge contrast too? And then, with regard to the other 3 things mentioned above such as hadith, code 19 and inscriptions I have least knowledge nor do I have any interest in any of them all.
Regards.
.
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Q_student,
Salaam.I understand we have to use dictionaries to get a primary and preliminary idea in general before applying on them the much required pondering, scrutiny and reflection. Does it mean contrasting? And a huge contrast too? And then, with regard to the other 3 things mentioned above such as hadith, code 19 and inscriptions I have least knowledge nor do I have any interest in any of them all.
Regards.
.
Yes brother we use dictioanries which have exactly the same place as hadeeth has the place. Just relplace the names of Bukhari/muslim by Lanne/Tajularoos.
No autheticity of narrations in hadeeth books
No authenticity of meanings in the dicitoanary books
Same narratores .Once Liars ,liars for ever.Unfortunately we all claim that
Qura is Tibyaan
Quran is clear
Quran is mufassal
But all of us use Extraquranic sources to understand it . Is the case not so ?
Regards
N -
But all of us use Extraquranic sources to understand it . Is the case not so ?
Regards
Q_student,
Salaam.Quran is reading and reading out the Truth of and about Life in and around and ahead of us. So extra-quranic life sources in real times are essential to see the authenticity of The Reading. Even Allah says 'Behold! Travel round the earth and see for yourselves if whatever ayats you had read from the Reading are true to its claim or not!' What is important here is whether your Iman is strengthened in the ayats by your implied meanings or not; or whether your Iman commits you in your real life to God alone without association does matter - Is it not right? So what is wrong with it?
Are the hadith and dictionaries the same? If you talk to me hadiths, I might refrain from responding for mostly it is nonsense. Whereas while you discuss meaningfully i.e., dictionary-wise I love to discuss if only the meanings that you took from dictionaries are sensible; and also if they precisely adhere to the Truth.
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Peace Brother
You saidAre the hadith and dictionaries the same? If you talk to me hadiths, I might refrain from responding for mostly it is nonsense. Whereas while you discuss meaningfully i.e., dictionary-wise I love to discuss if only the meanings that you took from dictionaries are sensible; and also if they precisely adhere to the Truth.
May I ask "what is the authenticity" of dicitonaries?
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Peace, and love brothers. I have been reading this enlightening discussion with keen interest. One has to stop and ponder at very basic questions about learning and acquiring knowledge. We I started to learn English, not my native language. I learned it via understanding meanings of words from Lexicons/dictionaries and learning grammar. Later on when I move to countries where English was spoken language, I learned more by associating with people who spoke English. However, any time I try to read say a book of English that was written in 17th or 18th century. I do not get any help in understanding some uncommon words from my English speaking friends. What I do? I turn to dictionaries or grammar books of English written at the time. Do I question authenticity of these, of course not? Could there be mistakes in them? Of course yes. What do I do? If mater is of grave seriousness to me Do I sit and just pray to Rub, to send some divine help? No. In addition to praying to him, I go out, in an attempt to look for other sources of linguistic preservation for contrasting and comparing. Could all these be wrong? Yes these all could be. However, after all sincere efforts if I am still going to be wrong. Do you think, Rub will judge me based on my efforts and sincerity of efforts or based on end results?
Badar
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Arabic is neither my mother tongue, nor I have lived in any parts of world where it is spoken language. Hence, I can hardly speak it. I prayed to Rub, how on the earth at this time of life I would go about learning Arabic. Since, He is closer to me than my juglar vien, he listened. He also does not change his laws for anybody, including himself. So, he guided me to laws of learning language. Laws of learning a Language that is lost as spoken language from this world. But well preserved in writting in archieves. Based on such learning from Lexicons and Grammar books here is my understanding for 22
This is an eternally bound book of the law for you. No business or affair has been left out of it. An honorable manner of conducting life and protection for those who want to safe guard themselves against being "senseless, deprived of intellectual faculty, full of sorrow & grief, stagnant, sleepy or drunk and life less". (all meanings of Moaat).
If anybody has intrest, will be more than happy to share, linguistic laws of this understanding.
Badar
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Arabic is neither my mother tongue, nor I have lived in any parts of world where it is spoken language. Hence, I can hardly speak it. I prayed to Rub, how on the earth at this time of life I would go about learning Arabic. Since, He is closer to me than my juglar vien, he listened. He also does not change his laws for anybody, including himself. So, he guided me to laws of learning language. Laws of learning a Language that is lost as spoken language from this world. But well preserved in writting in archieves. Based on such learning from Lexicons and Grammar books here is my understanding for 22
This is an eternally bound book of the law for you. No business or affair has been left out of it. An honorable manner of conducting life and protection for those who want to safe guard themselves against being "senseless, deprived of intellectual faculty, full of sorrow & grief, stagnant, sleepy or drunk and life less". (all meanings of Moaat).
If anybody has intrest, will be more than happy to share, linguistic laws of this understanding.
Badar
Peace brother
Are you using Hadeethul Lugha i.e dictionaries ?
Regards -
Peace, brother. When at stake is understanding of Alkitab, the eternally bound book of laws, one can not rely on just one source. In addition spoken language is so currupted at present, hence of very little use, if at all.
Badar
Salaam
What is your source of meanings of arabic words ?Regards
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Mad ul Qamos by E Lane. The only comprehensive translation of a number of original authentic Arabic Lughats, in English. Without a single criticisim to date to best of knowledge as such.
Lughat ul Quran by GA Pervaiz, predominantly based on Ibne Faris and Imam Raghib's Mufradaat ul Qur'an, besides others. However, I do not believe that my understanding is ultimate and has no room for improvement, based on improved linguistic understanding from other resources. Linguistic understanding is though right way, than traditions.
With regards.
Badar
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Peace Brother
You said Are the hadith and dictionaries the same? If you talk to me hadiths, I might refrain from responding for mostly it is nonsense. Whereas while you discuss meaningfully i.e., dictionary-wise I love to discuss if only the meanings that you took from dictionaries are sensible; and also if they precisely adhere to the Truth.May I ask "what is the authenticity" of dicitonaries?
Q_student,
Authenticity is your appreciation of rightful communication with the words and sentences that you use so as to impart peace in a community without creating chaos and confusion in the hearts of the people. Authenticity rests in seeing the actuality in a situation in real time. Whereas hadiths are not so; you have to go back to the chaos and mischief of the people supposed to have existed 1500 years ago. In dictionaries you find different meanings for the same words and we pick up a word to convey the most sensible meaning, applicable to a circumstance. The authenticity of communication rests in conveying one's feelings with ease and peace.
Peace.
.
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Peace, and love brothers. Do you think, Rub will judge me based on my efforts and sincerity of efforts or based on end results?
Badar
Badar,
Salaam.Seeking from Allah and seeking from the people around us are not the same; one from the highest seat of wisdom and the other from the source insufficient, deficient. But there is no sin on us seeking from the surrounding while still and always anticipating from the Almighty, all the time, for real understanding. Based on such position that you assume, Rub elevates you to a higher position than before and shall enlighten you on even higher positions that you are to be raised to, even as you are yet to reach the end of your life span.
Peace.
.
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Q_student,
Authenticity is your appreciation of rightful communication with the words and sentences that you use so as to impart peace in a community without creating chaos and confusion in the hearts of the people. Authenticity rests in seeing the actuality in a situation in real time. Whereas hadiths are not so; you have to go back to the chaos and mischief of the people supposed to have existed 1500 years ago. In dictionaries you find different meanings for the same words and we pick up a word to convey the most sensible meaning, applicable to a circumstance. The authenticity of communication rests in conveying one's feelings with ease and peace.
Peace.
.
Brother your ambigous talke indicates you cannot provide authenticicty of the Dictionaries.
Anyway good luck -
Q_student,
Salaam.I understand we have to use dictionaries to get a primary and preliminary idea in general before applying on them the much required pondering, scrutiny and reflection. Does it mean contrasting? And a huge contrast too? And then, with regard to the other 3 things mentioned above such as hadith, code 19 and inscriptions I have least knowledge nor do I have any interest in any of them all.
Regards.
.
Q_student,
Salaam.Quran is reading and reading out the Truth of and about Life in and around and ahead of us. So extra-quranic life sources in real times are essential to see the authenticity of The Reading. Even Allah says 'Behold! Travel round the earth and see for yourselves if whatever ayats you had read from the Reading are true to its claim or not!' What is important here is whether your Iman is strengthened in the ayats by your implied meanings or not; or whether your Iman commits you in your real life to God alone without association does matter - Is it not right? So what is wrong with it?
Are the hadith and dictionaries the same? If you talk to me hadiths, I might refrain from responding for mostly it is nonsense. Whereas while you discuss meaningfully i.e., dictionary-wise I love to discuss if only the meanings that you took from dictionaries are sensible; and also if they precisely adhere to the Truth.
Peace, and love brothers. I have been reading this enlightening discussion with keen interest. One has to stop and ponder at very basic questions about learning and acquiring knowledge. We I started to learn English, not my native language. I learned it via understanding meanings of words from Lexicons/dictionaries and learning grammar. Later on when I move to countries where English was spoken language, I learned more by associating with people who spoke English. However, any time I try to read say a book of English that was written in 17th or 18th century. I do not get any help in understanding some uncommon words from my English speaking friends. What I do? I turn to dictionaries or grammar books of English written at the time. Do I question authenticity of these, of course not? Could there be mistakes in them? Of course yes. What do I do? If mater is of grave seriousness to me Do I sit and just pray to Rub, to send some divine help? No. In addition to praying to him, I go out, in an attempt to look for other sources of linguistic preservation for contrasting and comparing. Could all these be wrong? Yes these all could be. However, after all sincere efforts if I am still going to be wrong. Do you think, Rub will judge me based on my efforts and sincerity of efforts or based on end results?
Badar
.
May Rab give both of you reward for your beautiful explantion and give us guidance all the way. I agree and this was my point of expression earlier also. It seems that with thinkers like you, a team is getting ready to attempt to decode everything in the Book to allow us to ponder over and over again on the words of QurAan and pray for Allah's guidance
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If You Are To Follow The Rasul
7 157
"Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered ProphetWe shall follow Quran in the way of The Rasul, The Unlettered, believing only in Allah, seeking His wisdom through dikr - pondering for the circumstantial and timely delivery of His Guidance for the best life. Instead, it has become a show and fashion among the Readers to seek guidance from the lexicons and grammar. This is not the way of "The Unlettered".
Peace.
.
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If You Are To Follow The Rasul
7 157
"Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered ProphetWe shall follow Quran in the way of The Rasul, The Unlettered, believing only in Allah, seeking His wisdom through dikr - pondering for the circumstantial and timely delivery of His Guidance for the best life. Instead, it has become a show and fashion among the Readers to seek guidance from the lexicons and grammar. This is not the way of "The Unlettered".
Peace.
.
No questions regarding the importance of pondering and praying for guidance. The purpose of lexicons , however is not to seek guidance, but for people like us, unletterd in the language in which the Book was revealed, just to figure out, at the least, as to what is being written and said there. Thats all. The reason for resorting to it , moreover, is the very fact that Muslims have been burnt badly by presumed meanings offered by a lot of Qur'Aan translating scholars, based on their understanding from Hadith and history books, thus inadvertantly deviating us from the real meanings and possibly the message. This at least gives us an unbiased literal meanings of the letters and the words used in the Book, so we could then ponder on it, rather than believing in the biased meanings offered otherwise.
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No questions regarding the importance of pondering and praying for guidance. The purpose of lexicons , however is not to seek guidance, but for people like us, unletterd in the language in which the Book was revealed, just to figure out, at the least, as to what is being written and said there. Thats all. The reason for resorting to it , moreover, is the very fact that Muslims have been burnt badly by presumed meanings offered by a lot of Qur'Aan translating scholars, based on their understanding from Hadith and history books, thus inadvertantly deviating us from the real meanings and possibly the message. This at least gives us an unbiased literal meanings of the letters and the words used in the Book, so we could then ponder on it, rather than believing in the biased meanings offered otherwise.
handshake
peace
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Peace be upon you all
" Indeed Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He sent among them a Messenger (Muhammad م from among themselves, reciting unto them His Verses (the Qur'an), and purifying them (from sins by their following him), and instructing them (in) the Book (the Qur'an) and Al-Hikmah , while before that they had been in manifest error " (3164 ) .
Is this not one of the verses that we need to identify god's messengers ?
Peace
almarh0m