JALABIB in the context of v33:59
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Peace,
Here is an hypothesis I will try to develop if God wills, and I hope you can help to support or reject this idea
I seek refuge in God against Satan the banished.
In 3359 we read the following
O prophet! tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad) that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Dal-Nun-Waw (Dal-Nun-Alif) = To be near, come near or low, let down, be akin to.
JALABIB root is JIM-LAM-BA
Also JALIB means the he helped, he assistedAlso PR-Online take the root Jiim-Lam-Ba-Ba = Woman's outer wrapping garment, that which envelopes the whole body, wide garment for a woman, dominion or sovereignty or rule
The whole idea of the verse is to protect the women which are the weakest to be protected from offenses from offenders.
How to protect them? They have to be known, by the offenders.
Once they are known they will be no more offended.
The question is does a piece of tissue protect you against the offenders? Knowing that everyone in these time, men and women were covering their heads and body against sun.The problem is to find the correct meaning of a word which has no other reference in Qur?an, the only occurance we can find is with the root JLB.
Jiim-Lam-Ba = To drive/bring/convey/transport, to draw/attract/procure a thing, gain or earn, seek after or seek to gain, to raise cries/shouts/noises, chide or urge on, to threaten, bring together/assemble/gather/collect, commit a crime or offence, to heal, to help/aid or assist, take or borrow, to seek or demand, to cover or clad oneself.
This occurrence can be found in 1764 and means to assemble/collect/put together
In Lane?s we find JLBB under JLB and means garnement.
SO let?s take the origine of the word to try to understand the context and meaning.
The first meaning is to drive, bring one thing from one country to another or from one town to another. That supports the idea of migrating from one town to another.
So back in the context
By 9100 to 9103 we know some believers moved to Medina, they were the first and therefore a minority in a new town.
Some people from Medina were hypocrites and were therefore offending the minority.
At that time and still now in some countries/town when you are a stranger you are an easy victim for thieves/ aggressors/ offenders etc and that is why GOD promised to the offenders to be killed if they continue in their behaviors.In conclusion
My idea here is that JALABIB does not mean a piece of tissue/ garnment to protect you from the offenders but a PERSON who can help you, defend you from offenders in a foreign town and who is well known by the citizen of that town so the immigrant are safe with him.
So the verse should look like
O prophet! tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should come near/ be near/get closer/ in group from the jilbab (assistant/helper/guide of the town) So these who offend know you and therefore will not offend you and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful
This is an hypothesis and I am looking forward for yours comment to support or reject this idea.
Peace
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Salam bkanwar,
JLBB do not exist, at least in the dictionaries I have looked in, all entries for JLBB are under JLB
please see
http//www.baheth.info/all.jsp?term=%D8%AC%D9%8E%D9%84%D9%8E%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%90%D9%8A%D8%A8%D9%90
or in Lane-s under JLB
http//www.tyndalearchive.com//TABS/Lane/regards
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Thanks, let me show now, how writing of script can skew the understanding of word/words.
Here is this word from open burhan site.
Here is a link for another script for same verse
http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/10_59/33_57-59.htm
and here third one,
59
Link to this site
https//sacred-texts.com/isl/uq/033.htmNow can you still say, it be one word.
Badar
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Peace,
Here is an hypothesis I will try to develop if God wills, and I hope you can help to support or reject this idea
I seek refuge in God against Satan the banished.
In 3359 we read the following
O prophet! tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad) that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Dal-Nun-Waw (Dal-Nun-Alif) = To be near, come near or low, let down, be akin to.
JALABIB root is JIM-LAM-BA
Also JALIB means the he helped, he assistedAlso PR-Online take the root Jiim-Lam-Ba-Ba = Woman's outer wrapping garment, that which envelopes the whole body, wide garment for a woman, dominion or sovereignty or rule
The whole idea of the verse is to protect the women which are the weakest to be protected from offenses from offenders.
How to protect them? They have to be known, by the offenders.
Once they are known they will be no more offended.
The question is does a piece of tissue protect you against the offenders? Knowing that everyone in these time, men and women were covering their heads and body against sun.The problem is to find the correct meaning of a word which has no other reference in Qur?an, the only occurance we can find is with the root JLB.
Jiim-Lam-Ba = To drive/bring/convey/transport, to draw/attract/procure a thing, gain or earn, seek after or seek to gain, to raise cries/shouts/noises, chide or urge on, to threaten, bring together/assemble/gather/collect, commit a crime or offence, to heal, to help/aid or assist, take or borrow, to seek or demand, to cover or clad oneself.
This occurrence can be found in 1764 and means to assemble/collect/put together
In Lane?s we find JLBB under JLB and means garnement.
SO let?s take the origine of the word to try to understand the context and meaning.
The first meaning is to drive, bring one thing from one country to another or from one town to another. That supports the idea of migrating from one town to another.
So back in the context
By 9100 to 9103 we know some believers moved to Medina, they were the first and therefore a minority in a new town.
Some people from Medina were hypocrites and were therefore offending the minority.
At that time and still now in some countries/town when you are a stranger you are an easy victim for thieves/ aggressors/ offenders etc and that is why GOD promised to the offenders to be killed if they continue in their behaviors.In conclusion
My idea here is that JALABIB does not mean a piece of tissue/ garnment to protect you from the offenders but a PERSON who can help you, defend you from offenders in a foreign town and who is well known by the citizen of that town so the immigrant are safe with him.
So the verse should look like
O prophet! tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should come near/ be near/get closer/ in group from the jilbab (assistant/helper/guide of the town) So these who offend know you and therefore will not offend you and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful
This is an hypothesis and I am looking forward for yours comment to support or reject this idea.
Peace
Peace
Herbman ! Do you want to say that" jilbaab" means a gunman acting as a guard ?
Regards -
Peace
Herbman ! Do you want to say that" jilbaab" means a gunman acting as a guard ?
RegardsPeace,
not necessarily a gunman but someone like a "tourist guide", someone known in town, remember in those days people were armed with swords and any "offense" could result in a fight, we were in JAHILIYA. So a women alone or not known or lost far from the group could be in danger.
I am just supposing, trying to put things in the context to understand what the verse could mean. But a piece of tissue which everyone was wearing at that time will definitely not protect you against offenders knowing you are not from the town.May Allah guide us.
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Dear Herbman, how much space you suggest is needed to separate words? Dear, it was a hand written script. However, now what all we have preserved language, on one hand, in lexicons and grammar books. On the other hand, we have ready made tafaseers, based on hearsay. We have to choose between one or the other for understanding of the message. Every one who claims to understand can not explain these discrepancies between supposed understanding of words and inability to find these words in lexicons or lack of grammatical explanations. Question, are we willing to have a fresh start for the sake of our Rubb?
Badar
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Peace Bkanwar,
I know what you mean, but you know as well that a space in arabic doesnt necessarily mean a separation between 2 words.
e.g
etc etc
Separation is often only indicative of writing technique utilized in different script formats. If you look at the Gold Quran script from Johns Hopkins library of archives, recently posted by you, you will see extensive use of separating the letters. If we look at different scripts of the word in question, can the firsr root be Jiim Lam Lam, followed by another word starting with Ba? But we have to very carefully analyze the word and keep an eye on the whole context as well.
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Dear Herbman, how much space you suggest is needed to separate words? Dear, it was a hand written script. However, now what all we have preserved language, on one hand, in lexicons and grammar books. On the other hand, we have ready made tafaseers, based on hearsay. We have to choose between one or the other for understanding of the message. Every one who claims to understand can not explain these discrepancies between supposed understanding of words and inability to find these words in lexicons or lack of grammatical explanations. Question, are we willing to have a fresh start for the sake of our Rubb?
Badar
Peace Brother
Breaking words into "pieces" as a butcher cuts the animal into pieces does not give you any sense.
What will happen if I break up "bkanwar " into
-b-
-Kan
-war
-2
What will it mean ?
Regards -
Separation is often only indicative of writing technique utilized in different script formats. If you look at the Gold Quran script from Johns Hopkins library of archives, recently posted by you, you will see extensive use of separating the letters. If we look at different scripts of the word in question, can the firsr root be Jiim Lam Lam, followed by another word starting with Ba?
Peace Kn,
You have very good memoryI have a question for u and Dr Bkanwar,
The Chii support their faith refering to the Quran stating that we should follow "ahl ul bayt"
The suni support their faith refering to the Quran stating "what ever Mohamed give you, you should follow"
The submitters support their faith refering to Quran "there is 19 over it"Can you give any argument found in the Quran that support your way of "tafsir".
Thanks
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Peace Brother
Breaking words into "pieces" as a butcher cuts the animal into pieces does not give you any sense.
What will happen if I break up "bkanwar " into
-b-
-Kan
-war
-2
What will it mean ?
RegardsPeace
Herbman ! Do you want to say that" jilbaab" means a gunman acting as a guard ?
RegardsI personally will not make fun or get upset at other peoples attempt at understanding. Trust me we all are trying to be as close to the message as we possibly can. More over we cannot cut the words just for the sake of cutting it, but only if the script technique, grammar rules, lexical concept and the context in the message allows us to do so. May Allah give us all more understanding so we could be closer to his message more and more
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Brother we should not make fun or get upset at other peoples understanding. Trust me we all are trying to be as close to the message as we possibly can. More over we cannot cut the words just for the sake of cutting it, but only if the script technique, grammar rules, lexical concept and the context in the message allows us to do so. May Allah give us all more understanding so we could be closer to his message more and more
Peace
There is no question of making fun.
If one word can be "dissected " why not other words ? These home made methods are only for Quranic words ? Do you have any support/evidence for this methodology ?
Honestly ,it is the most horrible way to play with Quranic words ,I have ever seen.
Regards -
Peace
There is no question of making fun.
If one word can be "dissected " why not other words ? These home made methods are only for Quranic words ? Do you have any support/evidence for this methodology ?
Honestly ,it is the most horrible way to play with Quranic words ,I have ever seen.
RegardsDear Brother, method is presented here, again and again, is there any body willing to pay attention to it?
Badar
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Dear Bkanwar,
I agree sometimes this method is used for some words in certain cases well known in arabic BUT I don't think it has to be used on all the words.
e.g. it is not + this makes no sense.
regards
Dear Brother, method is presented here, again and again, is there any body willing to pay attention to it?
Badar
Peace
There is no question of making fun.
If one word can be "dissected " why not other words ? These home made methods are only for Quranic words ? Do you have any support/evidence for this methodology ?
Honestly ,it is the most horrible way to play with Quranic words ,I have ever seen.
RegardsWe all pray to Allah to grant us the wisdom to understand his message, the way Prophet(S) and his companions(R) understood it.
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Dear Bkanwar,
I agree sometimes this method is used for some words in certain cases well known in arabic BUT I don't think it has to be used on all the words.
e.g. it is not + this makes no sense.
regards
Peace
This method cannot be anywhere unless the word under consideration is really combination of two obvious words like " " .It is a combination of two words.
Any long word in any language has "syllables" . One cannot break up these syllables in peaces and establish their meanings and then join them together as was done with "Muttaqeen".
Quran was revealed in Arabic Language which was existing before revelation of the Quran.We should learn that language first then we will be able to comment something about the language.
It is another thing that people think that they have right to criticize the language without knowing it.
Regards
Regards -
Peace
This method cannot be anywhere unless the word under consideration is really combination of two obvious words like " " .It is a combination of two words.
Any long word in any language has "syllables" . One cannot break up these syllables in peaces and establish their meanings and then join them together as was done with "Muttaqeen".
Quran was revealed in Arabic Language which was existing before revelation of the Quran.We should learn that language first then we will be able to comment something about the language.
It is another thing that people think that they have right to criticize the language without knowing it.
Regards
RegardsDear brother let me ask you this very humbly, what is the method of learning a language, that is no more spoken anywhere.
Badar
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Dear brother let me ask you this very humbly, what is the method of learning a language, that is no more spoken anywhere.
Badar
Peace
Exactly ,the way the people learn other languages which are nowadays are not spoken anywhere.Arabic is spoken but some advanced (Modern) form as is Old English and Modern English.Classical Hebrew and Modern Hebrew.Regards