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  4. FIVE DAILY SALAWAT IN ISLAM AND ZOROASTRIANISM

FIVE DAILY SALAWAT IN ISLAM AND ZOROASTRIANISM

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Salat & Zakat
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  • M Offline
    M Offline
    Meteora
    wrote on last edited by
    #61

    God promised to protect the Quran. That is what we know. We also know as per the Quran the other scriptures were altered so no, God let those scriptures be altered (imo this is part of Satan's promise to alter God's creation). Not because he liked it but because it was Satan's work and God lets those who are astray go astray. This is also a verse in the Quran.

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    • V Offline
      V Offline
      vivek
      wrote on last edited by
      #62

      God promised to protect the Quran. That is what we know. We also know as per the Quran the other scriptures were altered so no, God let those scriptures be altered (imo this is part of Satan's promise to alter God's creation). Not because he liked it but because it was Satan's work and God lets those who are astray go astray. This is also a verse in the Quran.

      Peace Meteora,

      I want you to give direct answer to each of my 10 questions.

      Yours truly,

      K.Vivekanandan

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      • E Offline
        E Offline
        No longer a Sunna-rejecter
        wrote on last edited by
        #63

        Now answer my 10 questions

        1. Do you think God can protect only the Quran but not other scriptures?

        2. If yes, do you believe that God has only limited power?

        3. If no, why God didn't protect all other scriptures of his?

        4. Do you think that God preferred the followers of Muhammad to the followers of all other prophets? Is preservation of the scripture the preregotive of Muslim community?

        5. If yes, why? Does God practice discrimination?

        6. If no, what is the reason for protecting the Quran alone?

        7. Do you believe that God gave uncondional guarantee for 100% preservation of the Quran?

        8. If yes, why did God warn Muhammad about the loss of the Quran?

        9. Again if yes, why did God prophesy in the Quran that God's wrath would be upon those who would alter the Quran?

        10. If no, then why you people carry out the false propagate that God promised the preservation of the Quran?

        Yours truly,

        K.Vivekanandan

        Did God promise to protect other scriptures?

        Why not just follow God's final, complete, perfect and fully detailed book - the Quran?

        Where does it say that the Quran is going to be lost? Do you mean 2530, because that one talks about people like you who believe that the Quran is incomplete and go and find other sources beside the Quran.

        Are you a Muslim or a Hindu? If you are a Hindu, then it is great that you are interested in the Quran, but dont tell me that it is incomplete.

        I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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        • M Offline
          M Offline
          Meteora
          wrote on last edited by
          #64

          Peace Meteora,

          I want you to give direct answer to each of my 10 questions.

          Yours truly,

          K.Vivekanandan

          When I'm not shit busy maybe I will.

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          • E Offline
            E Offline
            No longer a Sunna-rejecter
            wrote on last edited by
            #65

            181 Praise be to God who sent down the book to His servant, and did not allow any flaw in it.

            I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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            • F Offline
              F Offline
              FreedomStands
              wrote on last edited by
              #66

              That a specified worship five times a day is a God?s commandment given in all revealed religions is confirmed by the fact that a revealed religion known as Mazdayasni religion or commonly called Zoroastrianism which is the ancient religion of Iran enjoins a specified worship five times a day whose timing is based on the movement of Sun as in the case of Islam.

              Zoroastrians call this specified worship ?Gah worship/prayer?. The term ?Gah? means ?period of time? or ?place?. So Gah worship means ?timed worship?. It is apparently a name given in latter days to Yasna which has to be performed five times daily in its respective times. In reality, Gah worship is nothing but Yasna in Avestan language which means Fire Oblation or Worship through fire/Fire based worship or Sacrifice. Its Sanskrit equivalent is Yajna as practiced in other revealed religion ?Hinduism?. This worship is called ?Incense Burning? or ?Burnt Offering? in Hebrew scriptures when it is named Salat in the Quran.

              The striking similarity between Islam and Zoroastrianism in the timing of five daily worship is given below

              Time/Islam/Zoroasrianism

              Dawn/Fajr/Havaan
              Noon/Zuhar/Rapithwan
              Afternoon/Asr/Uziren
              Evening/Maghrib/Aiwisuthrem
              Night/Isha/Ushaen

              Call for Five daily worship

              Just like the believers are called for Salat in a Masjid by a Muezzin(caller) in Islam five times a day, the Zoroastrian believers are summoned by the ringing of a bell in the Atash Behram / Agiary / Fire Temple to perform Yasna(Gah worship) five times a day.

              Ablution

              Muslims are required to do ritual purification like washing face and limbs before commencing Salat. Likewise, Zoroastrians are required to do wash their face and limbs before commencing Yasna(Gah worship).

              Head Cover

              In the same way as Muslims cover their heads traditionally when performing Salat, Zoroastrians are required to cover their heads when performing Yasna(Gah worship).

              Facing the Direction

              The direction at which Muslims are to perform Salat is called the Qiblah in the Quran. In the Atashbehram/Agiary the room where the Atash Padshah(Sacred Fire) is enthroned is called the Keblaah in Zoroastrianism.

              Reading/Reciting portions from Scripture

              As Muslims are required to read/recite portions from the Quran in the original language of its revelation ie Arabic while performing Salat, Zoroastrians are required to read/recite portions from the Avesta(Gathas) in the original language of its revelation ie Avesta when performing Yasna(Gah worship).

              Sacred Fire and Incense

              The method of performing Yasna(Gah worship) done by Zoroastrians is as follows

              1.Stand before the sacred fire enthroned on the fire altar in an Agiary /Fire Temple or sit or stand before the sacred fire ignited at the home fire altar;

              1. Read/recite portions from the scripture;

              3.Burn the powdered herbals/incense on the sacred fire ie oblation into sacred fire.

              It is where the so-called Muslims shunned the true Salat by substituting the sacred fire and offering incense as oblation into sacred fire with the acts of bowing and prostrating. This is how the sectarian Muslims lost the core part of Salat ie oblation into sacred fire and retained Salat only in the name.

              Oh Vivek? Screw the sacred fire.

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              • F Offline
                F Offline
                FreedomStands
                wrote on last edited by
                #67

                What I'm trying to say is, being deeply in love with the materials rather than comprehending the message, one might as well throw themselves into the fire, or be thrown into it, since they love it so much, they should make love to it too.

                Zoroastrianism went the path which hardens, when the meaning of the symbolism is perhaps lost, and it becomes about feeding a fire.

                If someone ignorant responds "screw Allah!" they should know, I am not sexually attracted to Allah in the least bit, nor is there anything at all to be attracted to!

                Those who love the fire should bathe in it thoroughly. Truly, bathing in fire is transformative! You'll come out looking like a new man!

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                • K Offline
                  K Offline
                  Kikotsu
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #68

                  Salam Brother

                  is GOD a cow ?

                  this question is stupid right ? because GOD IS NOT A COW , but some people believe that GOD IS A COW ! so , do you have to believe that God is a cow because some people do ?

                  you explained the similarities between Zoroastrianism and TRADITIONAL ISLAM according to YOUR PERSPECTIVE which you have DECIDED IT EARLIER !

                  this is a simple question , I want to ask you

                  QURAN IS FULLY DETAILED

                  6114 Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you the Book fully detailed? Those to whom We have given the Book know it is sent down from your Lord with the truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.

                  GOD DOES NOT ERR OR FORGET

                  2052 He said The knowledge of it is with my Lord, in a record. My Lord does not err or forget.

                  GOD DOES NOT RUN OUT OF WORDS

                  3127 And if all the trees on the earth were made into pens, and the ocean were supplied by seven more oceans, the words of God would not run out. God is Noble, Wise.

                  DO YOU AGREE WITH THESE VERSES ?

                  if your answer was yes , please tell me , why did GOD mentioned only 3 ritual/contact prayers in Quran ?

                  1- Quran is not fully detailed , and the other 2 ritual prayers can be found in Hadith >>> FALSE ! 6114 tells that Quran is FULLY DETAILED

                  2- GOD errs and forgets , so he forgot to mention the other 2 ritual prayers >>> FALSE ! 2052 tells that GOD DOES NOT ERR OR FORGET

                  3- GOD runs out of words , He was tired and couldn't mention the other 2 ritual prayers >>> FALSE ! 3127 tells that GOD DOES NOT RUN OUT OF WORDS

                  and we know that GOD IS NOT A LIAR , HE DOES NOT ERR , FORGET or RUN OUT OF WORDS , PLEASE ! THINK CAREFULLY

                  and if any one found mistakes in my reply , please tell me , we can discuss the issue together

                  may ALLAH forgive us All and guide us

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                  • G Offline
                    G Offline
                    good_logic
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #69

                    Peace Kikotsu.

                    You said
                    why did GOD mentioned only 3 ritual/contact prayers in Quran ?

                    You also said
                    and if any one found mistakes in my reply , please tell me , we can discuss the issue together

                    I disagree with you. Where did you get that GOD did mention only 3 from?

                    GOD bless you.
                    Peace.

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                    • K Offline
                      K Offline
                      Kikotsu
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #70

                      Peace Kikotsu.

                      You said
                      why did GOD mentioned only 3 ritual/contact prayers in Quran ?

                      You also said
                      and if any one found mistakes in my reply , please tell me , we can discuss the issue together

                      I disagree with you. Where did you get that GOD did mention only 3 from?

                      GOD bless you.
                      Peace.

                      Salam Brother and thank you for this nice question )

                      there are only 3 named ritual prayers in THE HOLY QURAN and they are

                      1- Dawn Prayer (Salat Al-Fajr) Mentioned in 2458

                      2- Night Prayer (Salat Al-Isha) Mentioned in 2485

                      3- The Middle Prayer (Al-Salat Al-Wusta) Mentioned in 2238

                      Peace )

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                      • M Offline
                        M Offline
                        Man_of_Faith
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #71

                        3- The Middle Prayer (Al-Salat Al-Wusta) Mentioned in 2238

                        If you can even translate "wusta" as middle... that is not very likely.

                        Be safe
                        Amenuel

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                        • WakasW Offline
                          WakasW Offline
                          Wakas
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #72

                          peace Kikotsu,

                          3- The Middle Prayer (Al-Salat Al-Wusta) Mentioned in 2238

                          Incorrect. See point 11 here
                          http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html

                          All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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                          • T Offline
                            T Offline
                            Taro_Hiroshi
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #73

                            Peace everyone,

                            According to Hadith

                            When Mohammed met God in the seventh heaven through Miraj (an ascension to the heavens), God expected muslims to pray 50 times a day. But fortunately, Moses who was in the sixth heaven, advised Muhammad to reduce the number of prayers. By commuting from the seventh Heaven where God was located, to the sixth heaven where Moses was located, Muhammed was able to reduce the number of prayers even more.

                            My view

                            The story of Muhammad's journey/ascension to the sixth and seventh heaven seems to have no basis in the Quran. But this story can be found in Hadith (See Sahih Al-Bukhari 5.227). Since no verse in the Quran states that one must pray 5 times a day, it seems that the notion of 5 daily prayers has its origins in Hadith. The Quran mentions that Muhammad was on a journey, but the details of this journey is different from the details of the Miraj (ascension to the heavens) mentioned in Hadith. So the journey that Muhammad was on, seems to be a different type of journey, according to the Quran. As far as I know, no verse in the Quran states that Muhammad traveled to the sixth heaven to meet Moses and to the seventh heaven to meet God. Besides, the Quran seems to suggest that the only Miracle that was given to Muhammad was the Quran. In other words, it appears that Muhammad could not perform any miracles. If Muhammad could not perform any miracles, was he able to ascend to the sixth and seventh heaven? If my ask me, that sounds unlikely. In verse 1790, the quran seems to suggest that Muhammad's people would not believe in the message of God unless the messenger performed miracles.

                            Quran 1790-93 And they said "We will not believe unto you until you cause a spring of water to burst out of the ground." "Or that you have an estate of palm trees and grapes, and you cause gushing rivers to burst through it." "Or that you make the heaven fall upon us in pieces as you claimed, or that you bring God and the angels before us." "Or that you have a luxurious mansion, or that you can ascend into the heavens. We will not acknowledge your ascension unless you bring for us a book that we can study." Say, "Glory be to my Lord. Am I anything other than a human messenger!"

                            Also, some Muslim thinkers who have studied the Quran deeply, claim that Muhammad's journey was a spiritual journey. In other words, they don't believe that Muhammad's journey was a physical journey. It appears that some verses in the Quran are metaphorical (symbolic). But for some reason, a lot of muslims seem to take (interpret) all quranic verses literally.

                            From my understanding of the Quran, one must perform Salat 2 times each day. In verse 2458, the quran suggests that one must perform Salat at dawn (morning) and at dusk (night). In other words, verse 2458 seems to state that we one must perform Salat 2 times a day.

                            Quran mentions 2 daily salat

                            1. Salat Al Fajr (morning).
                            2. Salat Al Isha (Night).

                            Since the Quran is complete and detailed, I think that it would be prudent/sensible to only perform Salat 2 times a day.

                            To sum up, 5 daily Salat seems to have no basis in the Quran. The notion of 5 daily Salat seems to have its origins in Hadith. The Quran suggests that Muhammad could not perform any miracles. Hence, the notion that Muhammad ascended to the sixth and seventh heaven seems to be problematic/unlikely. Also, the quran suggests that one must perform Salat 2 times a day. And since the Quran is complete and detailed, it seems that one does not need to rely on extra quranic teachings (hadith etc.) in regards to how many times one must perform Salat each day.

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                            • G Offline
                              G Offline
                              good_logic
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #74

                              Peace Kikotsu.

                              Let us see then ,since you say,quote

                              there are only 3 named ritual prayers in THE HOLY QURAN and they are

                              1- Dawn Prayer (Salat Al-Fajr) Mentioned in 2458

                              2- Night Prayer (Salat Al-Isha) Mentioned in 2485

                              3- The Middle Prayer (Al-Salat Al-Wusta) Mentioned in 2238

                              What do you make of these verses?
                              1778

                              What salat is that?
                              Then
                              11114

                              How many salat here? some say 2.some say 3? Look at the threads ,no agreement.
                              I say three,according to my understanding.

                              Then there is the verse you mentioned 2228. Some say it does not mean a "middle prayer".Some say it means more than 2, since "saltaini" is an Arabic word for two, "Salawat" means more than 2., hence if there is a middle prayer as well, the minimum "salawat" and a middle prayer is 5?

                              You see ,may be according to you Qoran says there are only three prayers,but according to others there are only 2 prayers and according to another group there are 5 prayers in Qoran?

                              Not that simple ,is it? You have to be certain ,you see?

                              GOD bless you.
                              Peace

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                              • WakasW Offline
                                WakasW Offline
                                Wakas
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #75

                                peace all,

                                Since the Quran is complete and detailed, I think that it would be prudent/sensible to only perform Salat 2 times a day.

                                Not that simple ,is it? You have to be certain ,you see?

                                My view is simple and encompasses other understandings also (e.g. 2, 3, 5 etc), and that is Quran states a minimum of two daily salat for the mumineen. ;D

                                If readers are researching however, this article is one of the best deconstructions with regard to timings.

                                All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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                                • M Offline
                                  M Offline
                                  Man_of_Faith
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #76

                                  (selawat) is a word simply marking plural object and does not specify how many. (selawateh) is singular object alternatively uncountable.

                                  Be safe
                                  Amenuel

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                                  • K Offline
                                    K Offline
                                    Kikotsu
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #77

                                    Salam everyone

                                    If you can even translate "wusta" as middle... that is not very likely

                                    Incorrect. See point 11 here
                                    http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html

                                    if you mean that Al-Salat Al-Wusta means the Perfect Salat (God tells us to perform a perfect Salat) so

                                    I need to remind you of Al-Masjid Al-Haram .. the word (Al-Haram) is not an adjecive but also forms with

                                    word (Al-Masjid) a name this is also the case of Al-Bayt Al-Ateeq .. the word (Al-Ateeq) doesn't only

                                    mean (the ancient) but it also form a name after adding it to word (Al-Bayt)

                                    So .. Al-Salat Al-Wusta is a name not a description of a Perfect Salat

                                    Also Remeber ! every Salat must be perfect !

                                    Please read the verse carefully

                                    You shall consistently observe the Contact Prayers, especially the middle prayer,

                                    and devote yourselves totally to GOD

                                    GOD doesn't command us to observe a (non perfect Salat "You shall consistently observe the Contact

                                    Prayers&quot then he remind us (in the same verse) to observe a perfect one (especially Al-Salat Al-Wusta)

                                    !

                                    SO if Al-Salat Al-Wusta means (the Perfect/best/etc... Salat) then , does GOD command us to observe

                                    two kinds of Salat a non perfect one , and a perfect one ?

                                    Quran mentions 2 daily salat

                                    1. Salat Al Fajr (morning).
                                    2. Salat Al Isha (Night).

                                    incorrect !
                                    Quran mentions 3 Daily Salat

                                    What do you make of these verses?
                                    1778

                                    this verse talks about 3 Salat

                                    translation

                                    You shall observe the Contact Prayer (Salat) when the sun declines from its

                                    highest point at noon, as it moves towards sunset. You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Quran

                                    at dawn. (Reciting) the Quran at dawn is witnessed.

                                    1- Duluk Al-Shams (when the sun declines from its highest point at noon) this is the

                                    Middle Prayer , it's timing is from the noon to the sunset (you can perform it during this time)

                                    2- Ela Ghasak Al-Layl (as it moves towards sunset) this is the ending of Middle Prayer and the start

                                    of Isha/Night Prayer

                                    3- Wa Quran Al-Fajr (You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Quran at dawn) this is Fajr/Dawn

                                    Prayer

                                    Then
                                    11114

                                    Translation

                                    You shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) at both ends of the day, and during

                                    the night. The righteous works wipe out the evil works. This is a reminder for those who would take

                                    heed.

                                    this verse talks about two ritual prayers (Salat) and they are the Dawn Prayer and the Night Prayer

                                    lets examine

                                    ends of the day are sunrise and sunset but GOD also says (and during the night)! so is this another

                                    Salat ?

                                    NO ! , first we must know that GOD said in

                                    Once you complete your Contact Prayer (Salat), you shall remember GOD while standing, sitting, or lying

                                    down. Once the war is over, you shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat); the Contact Prayers (Salat)

                                    are decreed for the believers at specific times.

                                    and because the Quran is FULLY DETAILED , there must be a detailed mention of

                                    the prayers times

                                    sunrise and sunset are two actions that takes about 2 minutes , and GOD know that we can't observe the

                                    Salat in 2 minutes ! so he gave us a time range to observe those 2 prayers , and that is (and during the

                                    night) , so now we can understand the verse clearer

                                    Night Prayer (range of time) (sunset) and (immediately after sunset)

                                    Dawn Prayer (range of time) (just before sunrise) and (sunrise)

                                    Now for the Middle Prayer this Prayer starts when the sun declines from it's highest point (noon) and

                                    ends at sunset (the time when Night Prayer begins)

                                    this verse makes the point clear

                                    You shall consistently observe the Contact Prayers, especially the middle prayer,

                                    and devote yourselves totally to GOD.

                                    GOD tells people to consistently observe the Contact Prayers, especially the middle prayer ! why

                                    especially the middle prayer ?

                                    because most people are in their homes at the time of Night Prayer and Dawn Prayer but they are at work

                                    during the Middle Prayer

                                    imagine this situation a mother tells her son eat your dinner and vegetables ... now , vegetables

                                    are part of the dinner but the mother mentioned it not because it's separate of the dinner but to remind

                                    her son of the importance of vegetables

                                    so , because most people cannot observe the Middle Prayer at noon , he gave us a range of time to

                                    observe it , and that is when the sun starts to decline from it's highest point at noon , to sunset when

                                    Night Prayer begins

                                    the story of prophet Solomon confirms this

                                    One day he became preoccupied with beautiful horses, until the night fell.

                                    He then said, "I enjoyed the material things more than I enjoyed worshipping my Lord, until the

                                    sun was gone.

                                    according to these verses , Prophet Solomon was distracted by beautiful horses so he forgot to observe

                                    the Middle Prayer until he realized that the sun had already vanished behind the line of the horizon

                                    this story is a proof that the Middle Prayer can be observed from noon until right before sunset at the

                                    latest and it also shows that a riutal prayer cannot be observed once missed

                                    How many salat here? some say 2.some say 3? Look at the threads ,no agreement.

                                    because many don't try to understand the Quran according to the Quranic way (simple words and clear

                                    message)

                                    let's use simple words to understand the verse

                                    You shall observe the Contact Prayer (Salat) when the sun declines from its

                                    highest point at noon, as it moves towards sunset. You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Quran

                                    at dawn. (Reciting) the Quran at dawn is witnessed.

                                    if some people don't trust in translations , I'll use the Arabic text

                                    1778

                                    the three words are

                                    1- ( &#1587 Duluk Al-Shams

                                    http//www.almaany.com/ar/dict/ar-ar/%D8%AF%D9%84%D9%88%D9%83/

                                    use any Good English-Arabic translator (not Google -_-) and it will give you something like (when it (I

                                    mean the sun) starts to decline from noon to sunset)

                                    2- ( &#1604 Ghasak Al-Layl

                                    http//www.almaany.com/ar/dict/ar-ar/%D8%BA%D8%B3%D9%82-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%84/

                                    the translation is (Darkness of the Night)

                                    3- ( &#1585 Quran Al-Fajr

                                    http//www.almaany.com/ar/dict/ar-ar/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D8%AC%D8%B1/

                                    Al-Fajr means Dawn and you can use any translator (even Google) to be sure

                                    so the Command is to observe only 3 ritual prayers and they are the Middle Prayer , Night Prayer and

                                    Dawn Prayer

                                    peace for everyone

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                                    • G Offline
                                      G Offline
                                      good_logic
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #78

                                      Peace Kikotsu.

                                      Let us pick one verse at a time

                                      The middle prayer according to you is the only prayer during the day time?

                                      You say

                                      his verse makes the point clear

                                      You shall consistently observe the Contact Prayers, especially the middle prayer,

                                      and devote yourselves totally to GOD.

                                      Why does the verse not mean

                                      "You shall consistently observe the salawat and the middle prayer"?

                                      Your example of the mother does not make it any clearer,as the mother could say "eat your meal and your cake"? They are both food !

                                      Also Solomon could have forgotten the "afternoon prayer" why not?That one is more likely to be missed in most hot countries when they work. ,because they are free in the middle of the day .They do the "siesta" .

                                      All you have done is given your understanding.

                                      I disagree with you about your explanations.
                                      For me 1778 is talking about one prayer only. And 11114 is talking about three prayers,which leaves the middle prayer and these make 5 prayers.

                                      As for naming the salat, GOD has given specific timings and has not set to name the salawat in Qoran..
                                      The verse that names the two salats is talking about a different subject that happens during these salats. .
                                      If GOD intended to name the salawat ,the subject would have been clearly and specifically to name all the salawat.

                                      Of course this is my understanding.
                                      GOD bless you.
                                      Peace.

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                                      • T Offline
                                        T Offline
                                        Taro_Hiroshi
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #79

                                        Peace Wakas, everyone,

                                        My view is simple and encompasses other understandings also (e.g. 2, 3, 5 etc), and that is Quran states a minimum of two daily salat for the mumineen. ;D

                                        I think that you are correct. I agree with the notion that there is a minimum of 2 daily Salat for the mumins (believers), not for the muslims (submitters).

                                        In verse 44103, the Quran seems to suggest that Salat is for the mumins (believers).

                                        Quran 44103 Then, if you have completed the contact prayer, remember God while standing, or sitting, or on your sides. Then, if you are secure, hold the contact prayer. Indeed, the contact prayer for the believers is a Book that is scheduled.

                                        In verse 2458, the quran only mentions the word Salat (contact prayer) two times and seems to suggest that there is a minimum of 2 daily Salat.

                                        Quran 2458 O you who believe, let those among you who are maintained by your oaths, and those who have not attained puberty, request your permission regarding three times before the dawn contact prayer, and when you put off your garments from the noon time, and after the evening contact prayer. These are three private times for you. Other than these times, it is not wrong for you or them to intermingle with one another. God thus clarifies the revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.

                                        In verse 1778, the Quran seems to suggest that one can perform more than 2 daily Salat.

                                        Quran 1778 Hold the contact prayer at the rubbing of the sun, until the darkening of the night; and the Qur'an at dawn-the Qur'an at dawn is witnessed.

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                                          Kikotsu
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #80

                                          Peace Kikotsu.

                                          Peace brother

                                          I'm so sad that you even didn't read all my explanation carefully and you didn't even reply for the last part

                                          and because the example of the mother and his child and the story of prophet Solomon weren't satisfy for you I'll reply your claims , may Allah guide us to the truth , and if I were wrong , may Allah guide me

                                          The middle prayer according to you is the only prayer during the day time?

                                          there is a prayer at Dawn

                                          You say

                                          his verse makes the point clear

                                          You shall consistently observe the Contact Prayers, especially the middle prayer,

                                          and devote yourselves totally to GOD.

                                          It does

                                          Why does the verse not mean

                                          "You shall consistently observe the salawat and the middle prayer"?

                                          so the problem her is the letter (wa) in Arabic which means (and) in English

                                          this translation rises many problems

                                          1- Why did God separate the Middle Prayer from the others ? why didn't he say "You shall consistently observe the salawat" ?

                                          2- Which one of the claimed five ritual prayers is the Middle Prayer ?

                                          Fajr - Zhohr - Asr - Maghrib - Isha , according to the dictionaries the Words Wusta means (that which is between to things/ends and is a part of them) , according to this definition the Middle Prayer must be the Asr Prayer , However , this can't be true when we come to the timing of Asr Prayer ! because it's is not in the middle between Fajr (Dawn) and Isha (Night) (please note that Asr is the Afternoon)

                                          3- I repeat , Al-Salat Al-WustA is a NAME , and this name was mentioned in the Quran , so why didn't GOD say "You shall consistently observe the salawat and the ASR prayer" according to your translation ?

                                          All you have done is given your understanding.

                                          I disagree with you about your explanations.
                                          For me 1778 is talking about one prayer only. And 11114 is talking about three prayers,which leaves the middle prayer and these make 5 prayers.

                                          Actually it's you who is giving his understanding )

                                          I'll quote from my previous reply and please read carefully

                                          1778

                                          the three words are

                                          1- ( &#1587 Duluk Al-Shams

                                          http//www.almaany.com/ar/dict/ar-ar/%D8%AF%D9%84%D9%88%D9%83/

                                          use any Good English-Arabic translator (not Google -_-) and it will give you something like (when it (I

                                          mean the sun) starts to decline from noon to sunset)

                                          2- ( &#1604 Ghasak Al-Layl

                                          http//www.almaany.com/ar/dict/ar-ar/%D8%BA%D8%B3%D9%82-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%84/

                                          the translation is (Darkness of the Night)

                                          3- ( &#1585 Quran Al-Fajr

                                          http//www.almaany.com/ar/dict/ar-ar/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D8%AC%D8%B1/

                                          Al-Fajr means Dawn and you can use any translator (even Google) to be sure

                                          so the Command is to observe only 3 ritual prayers and they are the Middle Prayer , Night Prayer and

                                          Dawn Prayer

                                          Now , your claim that this verse talks about one prayer is NOT TRUE

                                          First let's understand this verse

                                          You shall observe the Salat at the two ends of the day; and during the near parts of the night

                                          What are the two ends of the day ? let's make dictionaries answer

                                          the Two ends of the day are it's beginning and it's ending

                                          (please note that in the Arabic text the words were which means the two ends of the day)

                                          http//www.almaany.com/answers/184162/%D9%85%D8%A7-%D9%85%D8%B9%D9%86%D9%89-%D8%AC%D9%85%D9%84%D8%A9-%D8%B7%D8%B1%D9%81%D8%A7-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%86%D9%87%D8%A7%D8%B1

                                          see also http//www.almaany.com/ar/dict/ar-ar/%D8%B7%D8%B1%D9%81/

                                          RESULT the two ends of the day are Dawn (sunrise) and Night (sunset)

                                          Please check this link for more information

                                          http//www.quran-islam.org/articles/part_3/night_start_%28P1369%29.html

                                          Now let's read this verse

                                          You shall observe the Contact Prayer (Salat) when the sun declines from its

                                          highest point at noon, as it moves towards sunset. You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Quran

                                          at dawn. (Reciting) the Quran at dawn is witnessed.

                                          Please Note (as it moves towards sunset) this is the Isha/Night Prayer , also (You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Quran

                                          at dawn) this is the Fajr/Dawn Prayer

                                          And (You shall observe the Contact Prayer (Salat) when the sun declines from its

                                          highest point at noon) this is the Middle Prayer , the words cannot be clearer !

                                          You see ! Noon is in the middle between sunrise and sunset , unlike afternoon which is closer to sunset

                                          so talks about 2 ritual prayer (Dawn and Night) , talks about 3 ritual prayers (Dawn , Night and Middle) the sum of the ritual prayers are 3 Dawn , Middle and Night

                                          is the main verse which talk about 3 Ritaul Prayers while explains the range of time for Dawn and Night ritual prayers , and gives us the specific time for the Middle Prayer (1778 also give us the range of time for the Middle Prayer)

                                          As for naming the salat, GOD has given specific timings and has not set to name the salawat in Qoran..
                                          The verse that names the two salats is talking about a different subject that happens during these salats. .
                                          If GOD intended to name the salawat ,the subject would have been clearly and specifically to name all the salawat.

                                          So why did he mentioned only 3 Salat's names ? why didn't he mention the other 2 ? why in the whole Quran the is not mention for Asr Prayer and Maghrib Prayer ?

                                          Did he forget ? Did he want us to have some puzzles ?

                                          of course NO ! it's is humans who are not understanding

                                          Of course this is my understanding.

                                          please note that I gave you the full explanation and used Arabic dictionaries to give you the clearest meaning

                                          so , I have a question for you

                                          GOD said

                                          Once you complete your Contact Prayer (Salat), you shall remember GOD while standing, sitting, or lying down. Once the war is over, you shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat); the Contact Prayers (Salat) are decreed for the believers at specific times.

                                          the Ritual prayers are decreed for the believers at specific times

                                          Please give me the specific times for the 5 daily ritual prayers in the Quran according to your belief and PLEASE NOTE THAT GLORIFYING GOD IS NOT NECESSARY A RITUAL PRAYER BECAUSE YOU CAN GLORIFY GOD AT ANY TIME

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