Quran only?
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AS salamu Alaikum.
I notice that a majority of Quran only followers i encounter have spent considerable time of their lives in the west either as students or professionals. Are generally intelectually inquisitive and attempt to be social contributors to the populace in which they reside. Which is great. I do find that a lot of the knowldedge and directives in the hadiths are at odds with everyday interactions with non muslims ie pray 5 times a day, wudhu, mingling with the sexes, grow beard...
Some just dont follow, and some need to justify this new found freedom by picking away at Hadiths to highlight contradictions
I know you dont belive in Hadiths but thereis one where Muhamad PBUH says that when he argues with ignorants he loses, when he argues with scholars he wins..
I dont think there are enough properly trained I mean 10+ years of Fiqu language hadith study to address your claims of contradictions, to the rest of us we just use minimal knowledge and duaa and links to counter this position. I really believe that the above explains better the growing presence of Quran onliers, in addition to some non muslim paws as catalysts (including ibliss himself) -
Quran only Followers
I make duaa to Allah that if you are right that Allah joins me with you and we all enter Jannah, if you are wrong that Allah guides you aright and if Im right that I stay on this path..Please review the following ayats carefully
(Surah An-Nisa 64)
We sent not a prophet, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah.
There are at least 50 of these verses. Allah saysWhoever obeys the Prophet has indeed obeyed Allah
In at least 10 -15 verses Allah says
Obey Allah and obey the Messenger
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Do you believe obeying bukhari and co. equates to obeying the messenger? These are ALLEGED sayings of the prophet.
If obeying the messenger = obeying hadeeth, and it supercedes the quran, what is the point of the quran?
The quran is not a fallen book from the sky. The quran is God's message through the messenger, you obey God and the messenger, by obeying his message.
Moreover, you ought to look at 1015 and 6940-47, if you believe Muhammad authorized these sayings. The quran says otherwise.
1015 And when Our clear ayats/signs are recited to them, those who do not wish to meet Us said "Bring a Quran other than this, or change it!" Say "It is not for me to change it from my own accord, I merely follow what is inspired to me. I fear if I disobey my Lord the retribution of a great day!"
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Do you believe obeying bukhari and co. equates to obeying the messenger? These are ALLEGED sayings of the prophet.
If obeying the messenger = obeying hadeeth, and it supercedes the quran, what is the point of the quran?
The quran is not a fallen book from the sky. The quran is God's message through the messenger, you obey God and the messenger, by obeying his message.
Moreover, you ought to look at 1015 and 6940-47, if you believe Muhammad authorized these sayings. The quran says otherwise.
1015 And when Our clear ayats/signs are recited to them, those who do not wish to meet Us said "Bring a Quran other than this, or change it!" Say "It is not for me to change it from my own accord, I merely follow what is inspired to me. I fear if I disobey my Lord the retribution of a great day!"
Well said.
When it's said "Whoever obeys the Prophet has indeed obeyed Allah" ... well of course, it was his duty to deliver the Qur'an. So through him we are obeying Allah.
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The point is that there are hadith which are sublime, beautiful, full of wisdom, and of lesser import also hadiths tht re charming. So you defend those hadiths and say why discard them.
The basic error lies in the dumping together of very hetherogeneous material under the word hadith and sacralize tht word, when in fact it contains very condtradictory materil, some inmoral and some directly pure slander of the Prophet.
May view is that God's word is only the Qur'an and therefore the only word that is binding for human beings. Any other word is human and therefore can be sublime, wise and helpful but it is not binding, and also tht nohuman word should be sacralized to equate it with God's word. All human words should be judged by its content. It cannot be tht we lump together mre idiocy and the possibly authentic sayings of a very saint person, i.e. Prophet Muhammad, and clinch the package.
It is true that there are classifications of hadiths according to their reliability, but since the very moment that the are lumped under the common denomination of hadith either they are demeaned in block or they are sacralized in block. And there can be all the studies one may like and the scholars may or may have not done an excelent job at aclassification, but the point is that in practice that classification is totally inefectual, nobody goes about finding this hadith cannot be followed or this one can. The scholarly discussions and the finesse of men in secluded settings putting things right (hopefully) are completely ineffectual in getting to the traditional muslim who will cling to the hadith word as if it was magic.
Hadith should be taken the same way that we take religious or pious litterature, solely for its content. If it is good and it helps knowledge and wisdom and elevates the spirit, good, if it does not, that it is it.
The lumping of hetherogeneous material is a trap for muslims, this should be undone. Those worthy sayings whether the Propht's or whoever's should not be lost because of being tainted by crap, nor should the crap by taken for something else, thanks to the vicinity of worthy or inspired words.
Goes without saying that nothing that contradicts Qur'an or oversteps it can be taken as norm or guide.
Salaam
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Well said.
When it's said "Whoever obeys the Prophet has indeed obeyed Allah" ... well of course, it was his duty to deliver the Qur'an. So through him we are obeying Allah.
I think the debate should also include what is it that the prophet commanded. And is what he commanded different from the Quran?
Sunni logic is the Quran is God's word and hadith are the prophets word, so obeying God and His messenger means you should obey the Quran and Sunnah.
However the Quran and Sunnah more often than not contradict one another. So who do you obey here? Is there contradiction or not? Is the Islam that can be derived from the Quran the same Islam we find in the Sunnah? And is Sunni Islam that is followed by Muslims a representation of the Quranic Islam or is it based on the teachings of the Sunni sects. For the term "obey God and obey the messenger" ASSUMES that the Quran and the Sunnah are saying the same thing and are complimenting one other, however many individual research done by many people show otherwise.
So I believe a good way to start is to talk about the contradictions and then point out that its impossible to follow two contradictory religions and claim to be following both. What Sunnis did is they took all their Islam from the Sunnah and simply ignored the Quran which is why Quranist and Sunnis follow two radically different Islams that can not be reconciled with each other.
The opening page in this site(free-minds) has a very good article that outlines some of the contradictions that exists between the Islam of the Quran and the Islam of the Sunni/Shia sects. In fact these sects have a closer resemblance to one another than they have with the Islam of the Quran. I like to use these points when I try to explain the Quranist persuasion as compared with the sects
WHAT IS DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ISLAM AND TODAY'S PRACTICES?
In comparing the teachings of Islam as derived from the Book of God to the practices taught and enforced by the popular Sunni and Shia faiths (1.2 Bn followers), we find that the list is quite extensive, with some of the highlights as follows
In Islam, the requirement to be a Muslim is to simply accept and live according to the ?Straight Path? (6151-153), Vs. the Sunni or Shia 5-pillars which come from unauthorized books?
In Islam, abolishing Slavery is taught to be an act of righteousness (9012-13), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which encourages slavery under war?
In Islam, women are never forbidden from praying or fasting during Menstruation (2222), nor is there a specific dress code (i.e. the Headscarf) imposed on them beyond modesty, Vs. the Sunni and Shia which teach the undermining of women and forcing them to cover their hair and avoid praying or fasting at certain times...
In Islam, a man or women may leave a Will, after settlement of debt (412), Vs. Sunnis who refuse to accept wills if there are any direct descendants...
In Islam, Monogamy is the basis for normal relationships, while polygamy is only allowed in cases involving marrying the mothers of orphans under the man?s guardianship (43), Vs. Sunnis where a man may be a polygamist simply if he can afford to, and Shia which allow sex for pleasure (Mut?a)...
In Islam, Divorce is enforceable only after a two-phase period, and it may be made nullified if the couple reconcile before the end of this period (651, 654), Vs. Sunni teachings that destroy families by allowing a divorce to occur on the spot with no waiting period and no nullification...
In Islam, Thieves do not have their hands cut-off, but are made to work until they return that which is stolen (1276), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which brutally amputate the hands causing disability...
In Islam, no one is allowed to be killed or Stoned for adultery (242), Vs. Sunni and Shia laws of stoning married adulterers to death...
In Islam, absolute Freedom of Faith is allowed (2256, 1099; 1829; 8821-22), Vs. Sunni and Shia requiring apostates to be killed and rejecting the practice of other faiths...
In Islam, people are acknowledged as being diverse and each is to be respected for his/her level of spiritual growth. A Submitter ?Muslim? must work to attain the status of Faithful ?Mumin? (4914), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings that all followers of their religion must think, act, and even look the same (cult syndrome)...
In Islam, War can only be declared in cases of self-defence - no offensives (2190), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings allowing raids and attacks on any people who are considered non-Muslim by their standards...
In Islam, Pilgrimage is a centre for gathering of nations and for all to witness the benefits of being together (2227-2, Vs. Sunni and Shia bringing in polytheistic rituals and superstition (touching of black stone, circling 7 times, etc..)...
In Islam, a Year is a luni-solar count made of 365-days (1712, 936), with all the seasons fitting-in-place Vs. Sunnis teaching it to be a lunar one based on 354 days which creates confusion of seasons and time?
In Islam, males and females are not required to be Circumcised (327), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings requiring all males to be circumcised and females in some cases...
In Islam, music, statues, gold and silk are all Lawful(732-33, 16116), Vs. Sunni beliefs forbidding silk & gold for men, and forbidding music & statues for all...
In Islam, rule of Government is under the constitution of the Qur'an through consultation and free-speech (548, 423. Vs. Sunni teachings which allow the rise of dictators or monarchs, and Shia teachings which uphold self-appointed religious leaders based on genealogy.
http//free-minds.org/
I think this is an excellent way to show some of the major contradiction that exists between the Quran and the Muslim sects. This shows clearly that we are dealing with two different Islams. You can not follow the Quran and the Sunnah but rather the choice is between the Quran OR the Sunnah.
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AS salamu Alaikum.
I notice that a majority of Quran only followers i encounter have spent considerable time of their lives in the west either as students or professionals. Are generally intelectually inquisitive and attempt to be social contributors to the populace in which they reside. Which is great. I do find that a lot of the knowldedge and directives in the hadiths are at odds with everyday interactions with non muslims ie pray 5 times a day, wudhu, mingling with the sexes, grow beard...
Some just dont follow, and some need to justify this new found freedom by picking away at Hadiths to highlight contradictionsPeace,
Respectfully.I think and believe that because The West contains more Freedom, Peace, Justice, equality and LOVE then the Mid-East ever anywhere.
Ther eare more opne-minded people in the USA and Europe in one square kilometer then in the all Mi-East, the way i see it, right?
Just think of this i pray with my hands to my sides in public. When sunnis see this, they just walk pass me, they cannot kill me because i live in UK, Thnk God.
If i prayed like this in Afghanistan or KSA or Sudan, what would happen? Would anyone even know where to look for my corpse?Peace.
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You are not following bukhari and co if you are trying to access what God's messenger has asked for just as you are not following Yusuf Ali to get an understanding of the Quran.
THe biggest problem that is ironically prophesized by the Hadiths is the that you rarely see real scholars in these debates, real scholars as in years and years 10+ studying the interconnection of hadith interplay between hadith and Quran.
Bigmo I appreciate the extensive list of Quran only (or islam as you put it) vs sunni/shia. I dont think you are doing it on purpose but its almost disingeneous because you are comparing fair translations of 1 aya against summarization that stenches of (non muslim evangelist slander of our deen), How do you like it when islam slanderers use one ayat from the Quran such as (do not take christians and Jews as awlyah) and make generalizations,
by the way I believe that your group is a deviation that will continue (for now just addressing contraversial hadith) but you will need to continue to modify because of some the troublesome ayats in the Quran,
dont you see the ride that you are on? the Quran tells that you they will never accept you until you leave islam completely and I hope you see one day the trajectory that you are on,
just a few examples..Sorry I ramble but Bigmo you know that Hadith have levels in credibilty , why dont you quote a Quran ayat word for word and a Hadith ( please go to Bukhary) word for word. I went to other website where there was such comparisoin and so much of the contradiction can be easily argued against, others appear as contactidictions but I am patient enough to allow Allah to decipher the ambiguities this usually happens with a scholar or someone who happened to know that information..
Guys, you wont go to josmo in a backalley to perform surgery on you, you will demand certification before you are cut open, how about eternity, why dont you have patience and allow real scholars to explain the validity of most of these so called contradictions.
I promise you that some of you are honest sincere believers in search of truths but there are some who are sinister who have no interest in any of this Quran or hadith or ...
Aynur You say the prophet was sent to provide the Quran, so by following the quran you are following the prophet?
but the quran instructs to obey the Prophet, if it was exclusive to direct on ly the contents of the quran it would have stated accordingly,again sorry for the long post but i would like to finish with this,
if any hadith go specifically against the quran, go with the Quran, but be honest be really honest as a majority of the hadith deemed 'authentic' have no contradiction but complement it -
My problem with Hadith is the same problem I have with Mishna and Apostolic Tradition. There's an obvious and painful dissonance between the interpretitive traditions. And of course clerics... er, I mean scholars can reconcile the contradictions. All clerics can explain away the nonsense between two binding but apparently contradicting remarks. It's their job. It's what they get paid to do while wearing dresses, being cold and distant and not working for a living.
Really, piddling around with detailed debates and semantic autopsies is a waste of time. I read the Quran, I go, 'wow, that makes sense'. I read the hadith, and I think, 'I'd really rather not drink camel wee'. The very idea that I need to look beyond that (let alone be wary of Hadith's self-necessitating threats) is not only offensively against common sense, it's nigh on blasphemous.
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Peace,
Ever since understanding that the Quran is the Criterion with which to judge, I have (i believe) never gone astray. It's a very straightforward message and applicable to all mankind. True we need the help of more knowledgeable people, but that is not just in the field of Islam but also in the sciences etc. If something agrees with Quran take it, if it disagrees, leave it. Simple rule.
My understanding has thankfully been evolving over the years, I went from Sufi to non-believer to sunni to Muslim and my hopefully I keep an open-mind about all things, even those I've 'decided' upon. It sounds kind of odd, but being very sure about a few things is miles better than being ok with certain concepts.
The Quran economises human effort. The word prophet and messenger is not directly interchangeable although they mean the same person, they mean two different sides to him. The messenger relays the message, the prophet is the guy they spoke to in a day to day basis. I do believe that some hadith may be attributed to the prophet, but those I am quick to check against the Criterion. Like I do with most religious, social things.
Cushan - you're right, some scholars are there, studying for 10 years things that are not actually important. Just how to get around arguments with proofs that to be honest don't make sense most of the time.
becareful knowledge - our 'group' if you can call it that is not a deviation AWAY from Islam, but more it deviates from popular beliefs TO the correct understanding of Islam. It is very loosely a group, whose idealogy is based on the Quran and the need to question, rather than a prescribed set of beliefs that some sunni sects seem to have which does give them the cult mentality. In terms of the 'troublesome' ayats - no such thing. They may be 'troublesome' to the current norm of thinking or against Sunni/Shia Islam, but that trouble is good - it allows us to see an alternative (if that's what you're referring to)
The hadith interplay as you call it - the Quran does not reference hadith the way in which the hadith references quran to explain a point...Please note that as a muslim you MUST accept Quran as Criterion. As such it is there to confirm the truth in scripture (Bible, Torah) and it is there to give us the framework for guidance. When looking at Hadith, something a lot of scholars ignore is the Quran. You CANNOT use Hadith to explain Quran, but you can use Quran to explain Hadith. The direct word of God preserved would be better than the Hadith because you have human influence here and that cannot be ignored irrespective of the voluminous memories that some people are told to have had. Now, I am not for one minute saying that you should reject Hadith. WRONG, you should reject those Hadith which oppose the Quran. IF you find something in conflict with Quran, Quran is always right.
An excerpt of a post I made on another (sunni) website
For example, I would reject the following hadith because it is slanderous to the Prophet and his companions and flies in the face of Quranic ayats
Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 139
Narrated Abdullah We used to participate in the holy wars carried on by the Prophet and we had no women (wives) with us. So we said (to the Prophet ). "Shall we castrate ourselves?" But the Prophet forbade us to do that and thenceforth he allowed us to marry a woman (temporarily) by giving her even a garment, and then he recited "O you who believe! Do not make unlawful the good things which GOD has made lawful for you."Can you explain the above wondrous Hadith?
Where they really more interested in getting laid than in furthering Islam? So, the price of getting 'married temporarily' is a garment? I'm sure that if I looked there would be an explaining hadith to this stating that it is a shirt or something larger, a headscarf would not suffice!
Let's see what the Quran says
2433 Let those who cannot find a match keep chaste until God grants them sufficiency out of His bounty. If any of the male and female servants desires a deed of emancipation, write it for them ensuring good for them by way of rehabilitation. Give them from God's wealth that He has bestowed upon you. You shall not hinder, for worldly gains, your maidservants from guarding their chastity through marriage. If anyone forces them, then to them, after their being compelled, God will be Forgiving, Merciful.So, the prophet would have said to keep chaste until we are married. As adultery is a sin, punishable by lashes (you dare quote the monkeys doing the stoning hadith) this would also be impermissable. Marrying another woman without the express permission of the first and that temporarily for the purposes of getting laid, would also be rendered impermissable.
2430 Tell the believing men to lower their gaze, and guard their modesty. This helps them grow in character. Surely, God is Aware of what they do.
Again, the sublime morals of the prophet are reflected here from what God has ordered him to do that the believing men should lower their gaze and guard themselves, rather than give a shirt to a woman for a quickie.
Just one of the many hadith I reject.
You see, the logic of some hadith fly in the face of what is recognised as the truth if you use Quran to judge them...
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AS salamu Alaikum.
I notice that a majority of Quran only followers i encounter have spent considerable time of their lives in the west either as students or professionals. Are generally intelectually inquisitive and attempt to be social contributors to the populace in which they reside. Which is great. I do find that a lot of the knowldedge and directives in the hadiths are at odds with everyday interactions with non muslims ie pray 5 times a day, wudhu, mingling with the sexes, grow beard...
Some just dont follow, and some need to justify this new found freedom by picking away at Hadiths to highlight contradictions
I know you dont belive in Hadiths but thereis one where Muhamad PBUH says that when he argues with ignorants he loses, when he argues with scholars he wins..
I dont think there are enough properly trained I mean 10+ years of Fiqu language hadith study to address your claims of contradictions, to the rest of us we just use minimal knowledge and duaa and links to counter this position. I really believe that the above explains better the growing presence of Quran onliers, in addition to some non muslim paws as catalysts (including ibliss himself)I don't think you understand my friend.
Living in the West has nothing to do with why more than 80% of the people here follow the Quran alone.
Apparently it wasn't until recently that we found many evidences in the Quran calling itself the only source of guidance and salvation and that anything else is simply concocted and fabricated, by recently I mean within the last 30 years or so.
All of these evidences, of course, were either hidden by the earliest scholars and/or had their meanings manipulated by ahadith in order to make other ahadith fit into the religion and so on, for example calling "baseless hadith" in 316 singing when it's pretty obvious what God means in this verse when you take into consideration verses like 456 proving clearly that God doesn't care whether or not you believe in a hadith different than his (the Quran) and asking if you study and judge from another book (6835-3. You'll also notice there's one sunna acceptable to God in the Quran and that it's God.
This is the SUNNA of God for those of the past, and you will find no alternative for the SUNNA of God.
Trust me, if the "sunna of Muhammad" (which by the way has way too many alarming similarities with falsehoods and bogus practices in the bible http//pressthat.wordpress.com/2007/09/06/hadith-plagiarized-from-the-bible/) was such an important part of (not "religion",or "Islam" as we know of today and were taught by our scholars and parents) God's way and true system (sunna), trust me he would have mentioned it. It just never hit common muslims and imams that following Muhammad was following the revelation sent down to him. Oh, believe me. EVERY SINGLE VERSE the sunni's use in their defense and in the defense of their bullshit sunna is easily shot down by other verses in the Quran. The fact is, these sunni's who try in vain to prove that the ahadith has connections with God fail to use any verse in the Quran correctly. At the same time they try to use HADITH in order to prove the validity of HADITH. The stupidity in their statements are manifest and easily spotted by someone who doesn't follow and worship blindly.
You see, the people in the Middle East may not like it that women here don't cover their hair, that men shave, that people spend their free times watching movies, listening to music and playing video games etc. While these so-called Muslims see these acts satanic, they find no problem in mutilating the genitals of infants, having sex with underage girls (married or not, like it matters), having 4 wives, capturing women in war or just invading enemy land and capturing women/enslaving and raping them (forcing them to have sex with you, whether by force, admonishment and/or threatening them may as well be rape) killing converters from Islam (or their fake religion, because it's not real Islam) among hundreds upon thousands of stupid bullshit you'll find in the 30,000 - 50,000 ahadith in six different collections of books that have nothing to do with God and his messenger.
See my rebuttals to Saleh (if you're willing to spend the time) to see why traditional Islam is so far from the truth and why Muhammad will complain to God that his people associated nonsense with the Quran thereby treating the Quran like something you can find in the garbage.
They were all in places like early India and Pakistan.
Of course, these people are condemned by the hadith following sunni's, and I believe they (the sunni's) fabricated lies about them too, but that is not the point. The point is that there are so many clear and undeniable evidences in the Quran that
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It is the only source God gives a shit about.
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Anything from other than God will have contradictions (people have yet to even discover the exact number of ones in the hadith books. It's safe to say there's at least 200 if you include the ones contradicting themselves and with verses in the Quran).
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It is the only book (yes, book) to judge by.
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The best and only hadith (yes, it says hadith in there) that God cares about.
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Muhammad will complain people ignored and deserted the Quran, NOT his sunna or his hadith (which by the way are attributed to him for the sake of getting muslims to follow a false religion. Proof? Muhammad was forbidden to attribute ANYTHING to God but the Quran. However typical of the sunni's, they twisted this verse to make it mean ANYTHING that came out of Muhammad's mouth, or the alleged hadith, have connections to God, and that therefore the ahadith are part of the religion. The denial and/or ignorance is that the verse is talking about ONE THING, ONE SPEECH, and even says that this ONE THING is the revelation, the Quran, NOT ANYTHING ELSE. This isn't surprising, since as I've said earlier
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The only sunna acceptable is the sunna of God. This statement is actually a verse.
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The best hadith and the only one God likes is his own.
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As mentioned earlier, God treats BOOKS (kutub) in 6835-38 JUST as he treats hadith in verses like 456, asking WHAT OTHER THING DO YOU REFER TO? WHAT OTHER THING DO YOU BELIEVE IN AND WHAT OTHER THING DO YOU JUDGE BY? The reason he isn't going to say doing these things are outright haram is because other books, and other hadith can be in accordance with the teachings of God. In this case it agrees with the sunna of God.
In my previous post, God says he accepts NO OTHER SUNNA but his own. Therefore any other book/hadith has to comply with the sunna of God. Do all the hadith books (or even just the ones in Bukhari and Muslim) agree with the sunna of God? HELL no.
I also think honesty and working righteousness will lead to heaven. If you agree with me on that, and not put all your faith in one or two out of literallly tens of thousands of non-verbatim ahadith, we are then in agreement.
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Guys, you wont go to josmo in a backalley to perform surgery on you, you will demand certification before you are cut open, how about eternity, why dont you have patience and allow real scholars to explain the validity of most of these so called contradictions.
Peace,
Respectfully.Bring any and all "scholars" and imams and sheikhs and whoever you want and can, honeslty and i will defeat them using JUST The Quran.
God willing.Peace.
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Peace,
Respectfully.Bring any and all "scholars" and imams and sheikhs and whoever you want and can, honeslty and i will defeat them using JUST The Quran.
God willing.Peace.
The larger the pride, the bigger the fall. The Lord is not with those who do not restrain themselves in their thoughts, feelings and actions. Peace be upon you.
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The larger the pride, the bigger the fall. The Lord is not with those who do not restrain themselves in their thoughts, feelings and actions. Peace be upon you.
Pride may or may not be included. Yes, one can feel proud after exposing a hypocrite and a follower of falsehood. I guess it's natural but at the same time God doesn't like people who boast.
You know a lot of these imams and priests uphold satanic teachings (that originated from pagan areas like Greece) such as stoning adulterers, killing converters, undermining women and stripping them of their god-given status as well as pedophilia (since they even satanically admitted that having sex with prepubescent girls is ok. The fact they used the verse that has "and if they do not menstruate" in it to uphold his belief shows they're not only satanic but ignorant as well of the fact that there are grown women who don't menstruate for certain medical reasons), upon other false teachings.
And if I'm not mistaken...God supports the fight against falsehood and most definitely regards the Quran as a source of true confirmation of facts. The sunni's don't even use it half the time (they're too busy shoving hadith in your face just to prove these hadith are valid, by far the most idiotic method of debating) while of course misusing the Quran or ignorant of clear verses like 456, 6836-39 proving the 6 sunni books of hadith having nothing to do with God and his messenger.
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The larger the pride, the bigger the fall. The Lord is not with those who do not restrain themselves in their thoughts, feelings and actions. Peace be upon you.
Peace,
Respectfully.I wasn't being proud, i was just being honest.
I have had many conversations like this and pagans always run away from The Truth.
They always run away when i start quoting The Quran.
Though they seem to be experts in the hadeeth which are baseless.Peace.
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Peace,
Respectfully.I wasn't being proud, i was just being honest.
I have had many conversations like this and pagans always run away from The Truth.
They always run away when i start quoting The Quran.
Though they seem to be experts in the hadeeth which are baseless.Peace.
Keep up the good work Alen.
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I agree with Allan's intention. By just using the Quran you can defeat any hadith
bravo Yes! thats true!
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Let me remind everyone of the ayats (AGAIN) this repeated up to 60 times in the Quran
Whoever obeys the Prophet has indeed obeyed Allah
Obey Allah and obey the Messenger
All Please bear in mind that your website and principles are not widely known, otherwise you will have a lot more intelectual debate to counter your views, This has given at least one person the sense that they have defeated everything in sight with their Quran prowess
Please bear in mind that I am no scholar and am debating with you for the sake of Allah and may he guide us all.I at least am finding some common ground with some of you that if a hadith complements the Quran, you will accept it or the fact that the Quran is the litmus test for everything.
Meteroa
"Living in the West has nothing to do with why more than 80% of the people here follow the Quran alone."
Please advise where you are getting your numbers? i a have live in both Europe and US for quite a while and am only coming to know of your 'school of thought' online and few persons here and there in person, I dont think you will gain much traction because if you guys are wrong the consequence is very severe (hereafter) and most people remain fixed to what they know for this fear"Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 139
Narrated Abdullah We used to participate in the holy wars carried on by the Prophet and we had no women (wives) with us. So we said (to the Prophet ). "Shall we castrate ourselves?" But the Prophet forbade us to do that and thenceforth he allowed us to marry a woman (temporarily) by giving her even a garment, and then he recited "O you who believe! Do not make unlawful the good things which GOD has made lawful for you." "
There are hadith in Bukhari and Muslim that out law 'Temporary marriages or 'Muta' such as
Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 527
Narrated 'Ali bin Abi Talib
On the day of Khaibar, ALLAH'S APOSTLE FORBADE THE MUT'A (I.E. TEMPORARY MARRIAGE) and the eating of donkey-meat.
Muslim, Book 21, Number 4763
'Ali b. Abi Talib reported that ALLAH'S MESSENGER (MAY PEACE BE UPON HIM) FORBADE ON THE DAY OF KHAIBAR TEMPORARY MARRIAGE (MUTA' WITH WOMEN and the eating of the flesh of domestic asses
I cannot at this time explain why the first one approves it and these and many others forbid it, so I follow the ones that forbid it because its more in line with the quran, i am not arguing the point that the Quran is used to make the final decision
(But this is why its important to have scholars the years of study will allow for easy explanations based on Quran, other hadith, historical background..) if i didnt have internet, i will be suckered (or wiswassed by shaitan) to believe that Muhamad PBUH has authorized this and its legal to do so, which means he must be a liar or all hadith are false. what satan does here is protect himself of the infinite firepower avowed to a student of the prophet (knowledge you lose access to by rejecting all hadiths), if you just read the quran, he has less work to do to wisswass your understanding of the verses.Can you explain the above wondrous Hadith?
"EVERY SINGLE VERSE the sunni's use in their defense and in the defense of their bullshit sunna is easily shot down by other verses in the Quran."
The above ayats (at the top of this post), are enough to force any "Quran" follower to explore what exactly did the Prophet (PBUH) has taught (the hadith), what Allah has taught is the Quran, unless you are now changing to say the Quran came from the prophet."women here don't cover their hair, that men shave, that people spend their free times watching movies, listening to music and playing video games etc. While these so-called Muslims see these acts satanic"
Bear in mind that the Quran teaches that Satan is an avowed enemy to you,and the hadith that you hate so much prophesized what the begining of the last days will look like, All of what you mention above (except the beard which is another story) have satanic content in that you have wasted time "by the time Man is surely lost" this is one of Satans tools to waste your time instead of spending it in worship and good acts. the women covering the hair, as you know adultry and out of wedlock child birth is widespread in the west this plays into satans plan, the modesty of the woman is so key to protect the progeny, I am man by the way, men are a lot less self control for sexual deviancy than women, and God knows our weakness which is why the modesty, you can thank movies why YOU and I will be considered terrorist bloodsucking barbarians (even though you have divorced yourself from the hadith) if Muhamad (PBUH) said it I follow it 100% and i have spent a good amount of time around hadith, and because of what I learn from the hadith, I am a positive beneficial contributor to my surroundings in the west. these include (trustworthiness, responsibility,being considerate, patience, knowledge of the unseen, importance of knowledge and most importantly fear of Allah)"1. It is the only source God gives a shit about." I know it slang but could you be more respectful in your choice of wording when discussing an attribute of the almighty creator of you and me and all that surrounds us?
Allen
"Bring any and all "scholars" and imams and sheikhs and whoever you want and can, honeslty and i will defeat them using JUST The Quran."
I think its the other way round, the Quran is defeating your argument because its obstructing you to follow the prophet and if there are matters you disagree with ...
"O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to God and His Apostle, if ye do believe in God and the Last Day That is best, and most suitable for final determination. (The Noble Quran, 459)"
Please explain what Allah means when he aks us to OBEY Muhamad (PBUH)?"O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to God and His Apostle, if ye do believe in God and the Last Day That is best, and most suitable for final determination. (The Noble Quran, 459)"
A similar (favour have ye already received) in that We have sent among you a Messenger of your own, rehearsing to you Our Signs, and sanctifying you, and instructing you in Scripture and Wisdom, and in new knowledge.
THis new knowledge is what you are all either rejecting or deeming completely lost (which contradicts the ayat in the Quran where Allah has said I have perfected your deen) -
Allen
"Bring any and all "scholars" and imams and sheikhs and whoever you want and can, honeslty and i will defeat them using JUST The Quran."
I think its the other way round, the Quran is defeating your argument because its obstructing you to follow the prophet and if there are matters you disagree with ...
"O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to God and His Apostle, if ye do believe in God and the Last Day That is best, and most suitable for final determination. (The Noble Quran, 459)"
Please explain what Allah means when he aks us to OBEY Muhamad (PBUH)?I'm not sure I agree with you here. It seems to me it is the "scholars" and imams and sheikhs and whoever you want that are not obeying by choosing to follow hadiths instead of the Quran