Quran only?

becarefull-_knowledge

Very well explained bravo bravo bravo

WHat is explained, 4 ayats were quoted here and the last one in bold type.
I dont know which translation you are using but this is Yusuf Ali version
29. "He did lead me astray from the Message (of Allah. after it had come to me! Ah! the Evil One is but a traitor to man!" Then the Messenger will say

"O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense."
Thus have We made for every prophet an enemy among the sinners but enough is thy Lord to guide and to help.

You guys must love this ayat in YOUR translation 'my people rejected this Quran', and want to make a new religion based on it. you cant , you cannot make up such a dynamic inference based on 1 ayat you have to read before and after and ponder the general meaning

becarefull-_knowledge

What do you mean by 'sound hadiths' then?
Those that are stamped 'sahih' by Sunni Ulema or those which are stamped 'sahih' by Shiah Ulema? Or do you use other criteria?

Salam / Peace

I mean sound hadiths as in perserved over time, proven in real life like the ones prohesizing a lot of the status of the world today and how we are near the Qiyama. and Yes Bukhari may Allah reward him for all his efforts and sacrifices
Could there be a chance of one or two inaccurate hadiths, maybe, will i reject the books of hadiths in its entiry absolutely not, i am mitigating a strong risk of the hellfire
how do I know the hadith have validity, I havent seen any that contradict the Quran and I am sure you have many bring and them on and lets discuss them
in addition, my favorite ayats in the quran is 'to those who believe we show clear signs'

becarefull-_knowledge

I agree, all I care about is being a good person and being accepted by God, I don't care what religion I am.

Here is where we can agree,
I pray to God who created the heavens and the earths, to guide us to that path in which he will be pleased with us.

becarefull-_knowledge

What are you talking about? That is some weird 'logic' you have.

no its quite simple, a follower of someone as in a religious figure, believes in their message and obeys their command. Allah has instructed us to obey him and his messenger.
His messenger had a lot to say in his x amount of years as a prophet and folks around him listened and memorized it just as they memorized the quran, May Allah bless their soul and guide us all.

becarefull-_knowledge

I just dont understand how you can overcomplicate something so simple, Those who obey GOD obery HIS MESSENGER
Also let me reiterate, HADITH COLLECTION STARTED AT THE TIME OF THE Prophet, please cease with this collected centuries later nonsense. it was compiled and authenticated centuries later (if its BUkhari that you are refering to)Also, if you consider hadith HEARSAY YOU MIGHT AS Well consider the Quran hearsay because it was memorized by Muhamad's followers and passed down, compiled after his death.
you are walking on a tight rope when you are obeying one teaching (The Quran) and rejected the tafsir from GOD's Messenger (The hadiths).
Another point is that the Quran was a book of guidance and wisdom, But from most of the historical evidence and dare i say it hadiths, you see that there was a much more practical foundation layed out by Muhamad for the muslims, which is seen in the biographies of their lives after his death, most of this detailed 'life manual' was not specified in the Quran, the Quran instructed us to follow him (muhamad), which you all will not be doing.

SarahY

I haven't been keeping up with this thread but i thought i'd reply to you becarefull- knowledge

now before i reply i want to ask, how do you or muslims obey God? serious question.

Lets assume you're right and hadith collection started at the time of the prophet. why didn't the prophet verify them?
I believe you're wrong in saying that Quran was written after the death of the prophet, hadith shows contrary to this. Remember the story of Umar ibn khattab how he become muslim, his sister had quranic verses, others did also. Quran was there while prophet was alive.

What gives Bukhari the ultimate superiority of verification? if you read ahadith from albukhari and you read ahadith from Quran, you will inevitably notice quite a difference, even contradictions. Also, there are sunni scholars who argue against Bukhari's verifications such as Albani. Even shia's argue against the authority of Bukhari's collection and Bukhari is considered the "MOST" authentic. why do muslism seek a source that is fallible to a source that is authentic? it seems odd.

So you're of the belief because we don't adhere to contradicting religious regulations in hadith that makes us deviants because we dont follow the supposed way of Mohammed? where is the proof that hadith = sunnah? Bukhari's ahadith are not just limited to the Prophet Mohammed you will see alot of commentary of Abu Huraira in it, even comments by Omar (possibly others, haven't looked that far). sounds to me it has become hadith and sunnah of al sahabi and their views of the prophets practices.

apparently in hadith Aisha said the prophet was the walking Quran, so why would it be wrong to follow Quran? we obey the messenger by following the Quran..

Salam

UmAlawi

I believe that muhamad PBUH conveyed the Quran, explained it and in addition to guiding us through this short life of ours which is full of seen and unseen obstacles. you my friend have prevented your self of this vast knowledge and I believe there will be signs in your life.
no other reason that Allah commands us to folllow him and his prophet. Him=Quran his prophet=hadith

Peace Becarefull Knowledge

Who teaches the Qur'an?

Please read
Surah 39 verse 23 (3923)
Surah 39 verse 55 (3955)
Surah 87 verse 6 (876)
Surah 2 verse 282 (2282)

Who Explains?

123
2776

Who guides us?

226
2142
2213
2272
516
688
7155
7178
109
1025
1035
1327
144
1693
1797
1817
2050
2216
2446
2678
2763
2856
346
358
3923
3937
4213
4630
646
7431
873

Have a look, and May Allah Guide us all aright

Peace

hope4

WHat is explained, 4 ayats were quoted here and the last one in bold type.
I dont know which translation you are using but this is Yusuf Ali version
29. "He did lead me astray from the Message (of Allah. after it had come to me! Ah! the Evil One is but a traitor to man!" Then the Messenger will say

"O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense."
Thus have We made for every prophet an enemy among the sinners but enough is thy Lord to guide and to help.

You guys must love this ayat in YOUR translation 'my people rejected this Quran', and want to make a new religion based on it. you cant , you cannot make up such a dynamic inference based on 1 ayat you have to read before and after and ponder the general meaning

Peace becarefull-knowledge

Does not matter what translation you take the message is still the same. However, if you hold Yusuf Ali translation over other translations lets use that for now.

251 Blessed is He who sent down the criterion to His servant, that it may be an admonition to all creatures;-

(251) mentions of the criterion sent down to us from God. I ask you what is this criterion in your opinion?

254 But the misbelievers say "Naught is this but a lie which he has forged, and others have helped him at it." In truth it is they who have put forward an iniquity and a falsehood.

So what was the lie he forged here? The Quran or Hadiths? What do you think they (misbelievers) were objecting to at the time?

256 Say "The (Qur'an) was sent down by Him who knows the mystery (that is) in the heavens and the earth verily He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
Its clear that it was the Quran sent down by God and not the Quran + hadith to explain the Quran. Lets not forget, the Quran will be made clear to who ever God wills it to be clear to, so there is noway anyone could make footnotes to the Quran to help with its explanation as they will probably cause more confusion.

2517 The day He will gather them together as well as those whom they worship besides God, He will ask "Was it ye who let these My servants astray, or did they stray from the Path themselves?"

2518 They will say "Glory to Thee! not meet was it for us that we should take for protectors others besides Thee But Thou didst bestow, on them and their fathers, good things (in life), until they forgot the Message for they were a people (worthless and) lost."
Here we can see that people have strayed from the path after the message was revealed to them. We can possibly conclude that the message was clearly a book from God, or was it a Book from God with a few things added on by the messenger? Who knows.

2520 And the apostles whom We sent before thee were all (men) who ate food and walked through the streets We have made some of you as a trial for others will ye have patience? for God is One Who sees (all things).

As we can see that apostles were men just like me and you not some superhuman being portrayed by some of the hear-say.

2527 The Day that the wrong-doer will bite at his hands, he will say, "Oh! would that I had taken a (straight) path with the Apostle!
Which path was that? The path to teach us the Quran which was revealed to him.

2529 "He did lead me astray from the Message (of God) after it had come to me! Ah! the Evil One is but a traitor to man!" Then the Apostle will say

Who lead who astray from the Message (of God)? God gave us the Quran and after it had come to us we lead astray, by whom? Well the Evil One (devil). You see that the Devil could not directly change Gods word (Quran), how else can he make us astray from the message? Get them to follow other things besides Quran alone.

2530 "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense."

All around the world people recite the Quran and do not really know what it is saying. People spend hours memorising a book because they have been told it is rewarding to them but what is the message? Surely there is a message to be understood from the book so read to understand, it is not a book of magic spells but rather a book of guidance through its understanding.
I ask you this, if people only followed the Quran and obeyed the massager who taught us how to follow Quran only, would we be so divided? Today we look at the muslim world and what do we see? We see a divided picture, we see countries with riches beyond belief and then we see countries who?s people have been displaced and starving, yet the riches or black gold given to countries to test them, what are they using it for? How can you justify an oil rich Arab who spends over ?200 million on a football club to buy players when there are charities around the world trying to collect a fraction of that money to feed, cloth and house the poor. I ask you to wake up people and free your minds over the control you been under. We all saw what happened to the poor people of Gaza, where was the powerful Umma then? They turned their backs because it was not their problem. Looking back at history, Islam was a powerful force, they had the first international university in the world, progressive people who had a strong enthuses on education, made contributions to many branches of science. What happened to that Islam world? We have been going backwards because of stupid beliefs.
Anyways, I hope I have been able to explain myself here. I am by no means saying that all the hear-say (hadiths) are wrong, there are good examples of how we can live our lives and conduct ourselves but we must use common sense and not follow blindly. I wish you all a good day, may God guide us in the right path.

Peace
Hope

Rev_John