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  4. My question is why must the innocent suffer?

My question is why must the innocent suffer?

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  • A Offline
    A Offline
    Abdun_Nur
    wrote on last edited by
    #41

    Salaam,

    as I have explained, the real question is why do the innocent suffer, I may have presumed it did not require explanation, but to make things clear here is the question.

    The parameters of innocence within this question are

    Powerlessness to prevent the suffering.

    Ignorance as to why you suffer.

    Blamelessness from any previous acts.

    The chance to develop you Ruh removed.

    The chance to form correct shepherds (beliefs) denied.

    The chance to become more than the sum of your actions denied.

    The parameters of the why.

    We are created for a purpose, and this world has been manifest to train us for that purpose, and we are tested, which I have explained on my website if you?re interested, if this is the case, then the innocent denied the chance to take the test, from the actions of nature, or humanity at large, taking their lives, or even if they are no killed directly and mature into adulthood, the abuse and suffering they have endured would in many cases preclude them from development, what is the benefit of this reality to the innocent?

    If no benefit, why are they excluded from the test?

    If they are excluded from the test what purpose does this serve?

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    • S Offline
      S Offline
      SarahY
      wrote on last edited by
      #42

      just because they're innocent it doesn't mean they are excluded from the test.

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      • R Offline
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        Rev_John
        wrote on last edited by
        #43

        Salaam,

        as I have explained, the real question is why do the innocent suffer, I may have presumed it did not require explanation, but to make things clear here is the question.

        The parameters of innocence within this question are

        Powerlessness to prevent the suffering.

        Ignorance as to why you suffer.

        Blamelessness from any previous acts.

        The chance to develop you Ruh removed.

        The chance to form correct shepherds (beliefs) denied.

        The chance to become more than the sum of your actions denied.

        The parameters of the why.

        We are created for a purpose, and this world has been manifest to train us for that purpose, and we are tested, which I have explained on my website if you?re interested, if this is the case, then the innocent denied the chance to take the test, from the actions of nature, or humanity at large, taking their lives, or even if they are no killed directly and mature into adulthood, the abuse and suffering they have endured would in many cases preclude them from development, what is the benefit of this reality to the innocent?

        If no benefit, why are they excluded from the test?

        If they are excluded from the test what purpose does this serve?

        Where did these parameters come from?

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        • A Offline
          A Offline
          Abdun_Nur
          wrote on last edited by
          #44

          Salaam Rev.John,

          only to try to make clear to Sarah what innocent is referencing, however it is flogging a dead horse as far as she is concerned, but I've learned my leason, I'll simply ignore her in future.

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          • S Offline
            S Offline
            Someone
            wrote on last edited by
            #45

            Peace Abdun Nur, all

            Your question Why must the innocent suffer? For the same reasons anyone suffers.

            Why must anyone suffer? To learn and to grow.

            Babies suffer from pain caused by hunger, so they cry. They learn how to communicate with those around them.

            Humans suffered from cold, so they learned how to handle fire to benefit from it and to avoid being harmed with it.

            Humans suffered from having to bring water from rivers and wells manually, so they invented canalization, irrigation and plumbing to spare themselves all the pain.

            Also, If we don't feel pain from injuries, we might end up dying from the most benign ones.

            Suffering is a prerequisite to human evolution.

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            • R Offline
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              Rev_John
              wrote on last edited by
              #46

              Salaam Rev.John,

              only to try to make clear to Sarah what innocent is referencing, however it is flogging a dead horse as far as she is concerned, but I've learned my leason, I'll simply ignore her in future.

              Sarah is a very intelligent lady, I'm sure she has valid points

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              • A Offline
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                Abdun_Nur
                wrote on last edited by
                #47

                It all there for you to read, make your own mind up, don't guess, be certain.

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                • R Offline
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                  Rev_John
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #48

                  It all there for you to read, make your own mind up, don't guess, be certain.

                  Well I am certain that only God (or Allah if you prefer) is the only one who knows the truth, we as mere humans can only have our opinions and beliefs.

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                  • S Offline
                    S Offline
                    SarahY
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #49

                    only to try to make clear to Sarah what innocent is referencing, however it is flogging a dead horse as far as she is concerned, but I've learned my leason, I'll simply ignore her in future.

                    Lol! in the way you are trying to make me understand let me tell you something. Someone can be ?innocent? in one situation and not innocent in another. Innocence is subjective and power shifts. You might like to read work on Foucault to understand what i mean.

                    Salam )

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                    • U Offline
                      U Offline
                      unknownuser
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #50

                      I Question why?

                      I flounder dissipated,
                      drained of fervour.

                      Humanities designation an irony,
                      its affront surrounds me,
                      inexplicably each mind labours to become less than nothing.

                      Their tangential thoughts exchange in ignorance,
                      rife this engineered psychosis labours,
                      wearing down passion to resolute drudgery.

                      I flounder,
                      disconsolate I hold humanity in contempt,
                      deeply and solemnly.

                      My thoughts spawn a fountain,
                      perplexed,
                      bewildered at pervasive acts perverse to reason,
                      from fabricated belief building each new feral mind.

                      I flounder,
                      like a landed fish,
                      isolated from the ocean of unity,
                      that?s so immorally drained into the sewer of mans sovereignty.

                      All that resolve to serve the unity of the human race, stands dejected, fruitless dedication steals all power.

                      My flaw is profoundly held.

                      I must surmount this intractable barrier of sentence.

                      I must consider the insignificant fraction of good,
                      without considering the balance of the overwhelming bad.

                      Respect the reflection of virtue,
                      each holds inside,
                      against the selfish greed and lust,
                      of confused ignorance outwardly displayed.

                      I consider this the hardest requisite of Islam.

                      Only the innocent sustain my purpose,
                      while the guilty punish my wards without constraint,
                      it builds a negative aspect,
                      a dwindling paradigm of reflected truth.

                      The innocent always a gift of gentle power,
                      so abused without recourse,
                      I question why?

                      So that we may recieve guiding principles for the future generations. peace i think.

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                      • A Offline
                        A Offline
                        Alen
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #51

                        Peace Abdun Nur,
                        Why has an innocent ant get drawned by the rain?
                        Why has an innocent rabbit get killed by an eagle?
                        Why has an innocent tomato get eaten by a human?
                        Are you also concerned by this kind of suffering?
                        Sorry to reply with questions.

                        Peace,
                        Respectfully.

                        I am sorry for answering with questions

                        How do you know that ant was innocent?
                        Rabbit? They were created as food, just like eagles - it's the survivial of the fittest. Maybe the rabbit ate baby eagles earlier in this show, right?
                        Tomatoes - same. They were created for us to eat them. Tomato ha sno consciousness and doesn't mind, care or know what's happening to it. It doesn't even have a gender or comment. I like them.
                        I eat ducks after and sometimes before i feed them in the park. What do you make of that? rotfl

                        God bless you all.
                        Peace.

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                        • R Offline
                          R Offline
                          Rev_John
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #52

                          Peace,
                          Respectfully.

                          I am sorry for answering with questions

                          How do you know that ant was innocent?
                          Rabbit? They were created as food, just like eagles - it's the survivial of the fittest. Maybe the rabbit ate baby eagles earlier in this show, right?
                          Tomatoes - same. They were created for us to eat them. Tomato ha sno consciousness and doesn't mind, care or know what's happening to it. It doesn't even have a gender or comment. I like them.
                          I eat ducks after and sometimes before i feed them in the park. What do you make of that? rotfl

                          God bless you all.
                          Peace.

                          Well Alen, I didn't realise you were a tomato muderer! police laugh

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                          • A Offline
                            A Offline
                            Abdun_Nur
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #53

                            Salaam,

                            for any that are interested in reading the results of my 40 day fast, using the method described within the Qur'an, directing us to ask a question and fast for upto 40 days, and the answer will arrive.

                            Why the innocent suffer without redress?

                            You can read it here

                            http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/116/148/

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                            • WakasW Online
                              WakasW Online
                              Wakas
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #54

                              peace AN,

                              I read your answer, I still prefer mine though, given in reply 7 free choice, and I didn't even have to fast which is a bonus.

                              All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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                              • A Offline
                                A Offline
                                Abdun_Nur
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #55

                                Salaam,

                                I'm certain if you did fast you would remain in the same state of comprehension.

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