Where is the First Focal Point's place mentioned in the Quran?

zubairus

Peace ayman,

The fools are those who think that a physical direction is important or that you need to face a particular physical direction to pray to the omnipresent god.

So the first focal point was a PHYSICAL FOCAL POINT
.

The foolish from among the people will say ?What has turned them away from the focal point that they were on?? Say ?To God are the east and the west, He guides whomsoever He wishes to a straight path.?
2142
.

If you agree that the first focal point was a physical point from which they turned. The question is this, they turned to where? To no direction or a different direction?
THINK ABOUT IT.

ZUBAIRUS

Mazhar

Yes ! alone !! just me and my lord ! does this corrupt mu faith ?

I only posed it that some one may not take impression from your earlier post that because of Ahle Hadith you have also abandoned As Salat. Good.

quickduck

I only posed it that some one may not take impression from your earlier post that because of Ahle Hadith you have also abandoned As Salat. Good.

You are not completly wrong i gave up doing "their" salat and but i am now doing my "own" salat ( at least i try my best to).
I join brother MESSAGE114 in all that he said in his previous post.

Salam

Mazhar

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.142a.gif
Indeed the Muna'fi'qeen think they deceive Allah and He lets them engulfed in their deceptive perception ;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.142.gif
And when they get up/stand to join the Ass-sa'laat they stand reluctantly/irritant/with heavy heart just for the sake of showing/demonstrating to people
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.142b.gif
and they do not remember Allah except occasionally.

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/004.%20An%20Nisa%2002.htm

MESSAGE114

Salam,

We must remember Allah every seconds in life till our last breath, from waking up in the morning till we go to sleep.

Indeed the Muna'fi'qeen think they deceive Allah and He lets them engulfed in their deceptive perception ;

And when they get up/stand to join the Ass-sa'laat they stand reluctantly/irritant/with heavy heart just for the sake of showing/demonstrating to people

and they do not remember Allah except occasionally.

The verse above cleary shows what is happening in our daily lives.

Exmaple

When the boss is around they work hard, but with no interest in mind. When the boss is not around they are lazy, so that is munafiq.
When we are alone, a woman try to seduce us. At that time, what should should we do? We should do solat. Solat means, at that time we contact God, and we avoid and run away from the woman. The is real solat. Are we expect to perofrm "solat-sunni style" in front of the woman?
If we do business, for example selling apples. Do we put the bad apples under the good apples? Solat is we put all good apples and no bad apples. God sees everything.
We work for the company. Then, we leak information. That is real munafiq. We receive bribery.
We also solat even in the early hours of the morning. Let's say people who work in shift. At that time we remember God, by working in right direction. That is solat.

So, meaning that we must always maintain solat that is Tawhid to Almighty God.

It's normal thing for some of those who perform "solat-sunni style", but after their solat, they still receive bribery, still drinking, still commit adultery, still shouting at their parents. I'm not saying about that particular sunni-style solat, but that solat is just in few minutes time that you think you really remember God, but then you cannot focus well. When we lost our key, we remember in sunni-style solat, when we forget something, we suddenly remember it in sunni style solat. So what's the point of sunni-style solat that we remember other things besides God? If sunni style solat is really wonderful in contact to God, then why we see most people perform solat too fast, as if they are afraid to left by a train, or flight.

As other laws, rules and regulation is inform straight by God in Quran, why then, the so called sunni-style solat that sunnis say top priority in life, is not inform by God in very exact structure, number of rakaat in Quran?

That's my opinion.

belH

Is this a joke?

Do you want to be told "This iz teh qiblah" or are you interested in asking Allah for guidance?

Spoon feeding is over. I am not responsible for you, nor am I your guardian. You are given all the proofs and all the resources are available to you.

Peace.

Peace all,
Your answers indicate that the Masjed Elharam is in Mecca. If this is true, then you need to show us the signs so I can agree with you; otherwise, your claim would be distortion of the truth that is the Masjed Elharam is in Jeruslem. And this is supported by the Quran, Torah and Injeel.

raginggaijin

Peace all,
Your answers indicate that the Masjed Elharam is in Mecca. If this is true, then you need to show us the signs so I can agree with you; otherwise, your claim would be distortion of the truth that is the Masjed Elharam is in Jeruslem. And this is supported by the Quran, Torah and Injeel.

Where is your proof of this claim?

Proof Masjid Al-Haram is in Mecca
"Safa and Marwah are signs of Allah; so whoever makes a pilgrimage to the House or pays a visit, there is no blame on him if he goes round them." Surah 2158
Safa and Marwah are two small mountains that are partially enclosed now by Masjid Al-Haram

http//lmgtfy.com/?q=Safa+Marwa

Where are sacrifices sent to? Surah 595. 597
What House is visited? 524

We know the Sacred Mosque was around during Muhammad's time because it is written in the Quran "O you who believe, the idolators are surely unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque (Masjid Al-Haram) after this year of theirs." Surah 928

"Those to whom We have given the Book study it as it should be studied they are the ones that believe therein those who reject faith therein, the loss is their own." Surah 2121

Masjid Al-Haram surrounds the Kaaba.

http//www.arabeastern.com/userfiles/masjid-al-haram.jpg

For those who say we are to face Jerusalem, I give these proofs on the contrary

The Farthest Mosque in Surah 171 is Masjid Al-Aqsa. Read the original Arabic Quran. "mina almasjidi alharami ila almasjidi al-aqsa"
The Al-Aqsa Mosque is located in Jerusalem

http//tinyurl.com/ya8c4ms

This small building now called 'Al-Aqsa Mosque' was called the Temple of Solomon by the Knights Templar during the Crusade, for the Temple perimeter still stands today. This small building was part of the entire structure.
Temple/Masjid Al-Aqsa Surah 171,175-7,1760

http//www.foraqsa.com/content/images/aqsa1_eng.jpg

Did Isa (pbuh) say he came to abolish the law?
No, he came to fulfill it. So the teachings of the Old Testament/Tanakh are still part of their Covenant. The Jews and Christians have Al-Aqsa Mosque, the Temple of Solomon, as their qiblah.

We know this city is Mecca, and not Jerusalem, because Allah spoke of Mecca many times in the Quran. Surah 427, 2791, 3360, 901-2, 953

According to the Bible, the first altar to God created by Abraham was in the land of Canaan.
"And the Lord appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land and there builded he an altar unto the Lord, who appeared unto him. And he removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of Bethel, and pitched his tent, having Bethel on the west and Hai on the east and there he builded an altar unto the Lord, and called upon the name of the Lord." Gen. 127-8

It was a tent in the land of Canaan. The Canaanites, descendants of Ham, were declared forbidden to Isaac (pbuh), so he was given Rebekah through God's guidance. Even Isa (pbuh) called the Canaanites dogs in the New Testament. The name YHWH stems from the Canaanite deity, whose consort is Asherah/Ashteroth.

YHWH
Jew

Which City was Muhammad's? Surah 4713, 2791

Which City did the Quraish travel to in the summer and winter? Surah 1061-4
Who is Lord of this House? Surah 1064
Which Mother City spoke Arabic and had neighbors around it? Surah 427
Which City wasn't as powerful as those around her, but still prevailed due to Allah? Surah 4713
Which City had safety due to Allah while the neighbors were attacked? Surah 953
Which City is made free from obligation? Surah 902

Do you disbelieve in the communications of Allah? Surah 9020

Believe or believe not. I am not a guardian.

Peace.

quickduck

Peace raginggaijin, all

can you once in your life provide a REAL proof for your claims ??

For example,
1 - Although the two small mountains near the "Kaaba" are nowadays called by sectarians "safa and marwa " , it is not a PROOF that they refer to "safa and marwa" in 2158.
2- the sectarians calling the mosque in jerusalem " al masjid al-aqsa" does not PROVE that is it the "al masjid al-aqsa" in 171

Sorry if i am a bit rude, but i can call this "intellectual masturbation".

if you want to recieve credit for bringing us PROOFS, then try these

1 - Proove that "safa and marwa" (as meaning 2 mountains) were known before islamic era. They should , because the prophet didn't built any mountain )

2 - Proove that the temple in jerusalem was called "al masjid al Aqsa " by any of the previous scriptures/cultures/histories etc...

If you do that, i will humbly admit that "you-know-it-all" and i will stand up and bravo

Salam

Mazhar

raginggaijin,

Would you be able to meet this demand of proof at the end

herbman

raginggaijin,

Would you be able to meet this demand of proof at the end

Peace,

interresting verse, please provide references.

thanks

Mazhar

Peace herbman;

4525

For such situations advice is

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/023.%20Al%20Momenoon/23.54.gif
Therefore, for that reason, You the Messenger leave them in their interests veiling upon them until the time .

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/023.%20Al%20Momenoon/023.D%20%20Al%20Momenoon.htm

unknownuser

Peace herbman;

4525

For such situations advice is

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/023.%20Al%20Momenoon/23.54.gif
Therefore, for that reason, You the Messenger leave them in their interests veiling upon them until the time .

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/023.%20Al%20Momenoon/023.D%20%20Al%20Momenoon.htm

peace

and for such an answer;

039.018
YUSUFALI Those who listen to the Word, and follow the best (meaning) in it those are the ones whom Allah has guided, and those are the ones endued with understanding
002.170
YUSUFALI When it is said to them "Follow what Allah hath revealed" They say "Nay! we shall follow the ways of our fathers." What! even though their fathers Were void of wisdom and guidance?
288
SHAKIR And they say Our hearts are covered. Nay, Allah has cursed them on account of their unbelief; so little it is that they believe.

Follow a stone buyilding , which used to be a hindu shrine;

http//www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm

wow

peace

RA786

peace

and for such an answer;

039.018
YUSUFALI Those who listen to the Word, and follow the best (meaning) in it those are the ones whom Allah has guided, and those are the ones endued with understanding
002.170
YUSUFALI When it is said to them "Follow what Allah hath revealed" They say "Nay! we shall follow the ways of our fathers." What! even though their fathers Were void of wisdom and guidance?
288
SHAKIR And they say Our hearts are covered. Nay, Allah has cursed them on account of their unbelief; so little it is that they believe.

Follow a stone buyilding , which used to be a hindu shrine;

http//www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm

wow

peace

Oh great so now Hinduism is attributed to the Ka'bah?
This doesnt make any sense whatso-ever.

Supposedily, it was Arabian Peganism (Hual,allat, and other pegan moon/sun gods)...and Now people are saying Hinduism?
I've now fully 100% realized that the entire world has absolutly NO IDEA about ANYTHING whatso ever whether it be religion, Political, Science etc..
I've now just become very pessimistic, and perhaps even misanthropic.
Even a Simple Task such as a Qibla cannot even be exactly followed or defined. rotfl )
why? thats all I have to say?

..... We have endowed the Children of Israel with a position of honor, and blessed them with good provisions. Yet, they disputed when this knowledge came to them. Your Lord will judge them on the Day of Resurrection regarding everything they disputed.

He will then point out to everyone all the things they had disputed, and will let those who disbelieved know that they were liars.

Its kinda sad that "AFTER" knowledge was revealed....was it Lost/Distorted/Disputed...

Ya Allah!
(

quickduck

raginggaijin,

Would you be able to meet this demand of proof at the end

i am not the one following what my forefathers left to us ignore

Mazhar

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.97.gif
And if you bring, to those people whom Book was given earlier, each and every individual evidential sign/unprecedented occurrence even then they will not physically follow your Qib'laa'taa ;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.145d.gif
And you will never follow/be follower of their Qib'laa'taa
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.98.gif
And neither they, the two segments of People of Book, will ever be practical followers of Qib'laa'taa of each other ;

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.02.C.142.htm

unknownuser

Oh great so now Hinduism is attributed to the Ka'bah?
This doesnt make any sense whatso-ever.

Supposedily, it was Arabian Peganism (Hual,allat, and other pegan moon/sun gods)...and Now people are saying Hinduism?
I've now fully 100% realized that the entire world has absolutly NO IDEA about ANYTHING whatso ever whether it be religion, Political, Science etc..
I've now just become very pessimistic, and perhaps even misanthropic.
Even a Simple Task such as a Qibla cannot even be exactly followed or defined. rotfl
why? thats all I have to say?

..... We have endowed the Children of Israel with a position of honor, and blessed them with good provisions. Yet, they disputed when this knowledge came to them. Your Lord will judge them on the Day of Resurrection regarding everything they disputed.

He will then point out to everyone all the things they had disputed, and will let those who disbelieved know that they were liars.

Its kinda sad that "AFTER" knowledge was revealed....was it Lost/Distorted/Disputed...

Ya Allah!

I believe it was one of their colonies and was known as arvastan.......

quickduck

Peace all,

today i browsed this forum and i found a topic started by raigingaijin

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597932.0

after i read this topic and understood what raiginggaijin beliefs are, i was convinced by this fact debating with him sounds like a deaf debate.
Completly useless, since the guy is completly "out of sync". brickwall
neverthless, i checked youtube for "the arrivals series" he promoted...Although they contain "some" truths, those videos are full of absurdities (just like many of raigingaijin's posts > )

Some of their theories (ep.36 to 51) are represented by ''great hollywood movies" such as MATRIX and LORD OF THE RINGS laugh laugh

1 - Sauron (LotR) represents the one-eyed dajjal.
2 - Gandlaf (LotR) represents the imam Mahdi.
3 - Aragorn (LotR) represents the coming Messiah.
etc...

P.S what about Bilbon the hobbit ?? rotfl rotfl

salam

unknownuser

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.97.gif
And if you bring, to those people whom Book was given earlier, each and every individual evidential sign/unprecedented occurrence even then they will not physically follow your Qib'laa'taa ;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.145d.gif
And you will never follow/be follower of their Qib'laa'taa
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.98.gif
And neither they, the two segments of People of Book, will ever be practical followers of Qib'laa'taa of each other ;

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.02.C.142.htm

Sorry to disagree;

2138
(Our religion is) the Baptism of Allah And who can baptize better than Allah? And it is He Whom we worship
2139
Say Will ye dispute with us about Allah, seeing that He is our Lord and your Lord; that we are responsible for our doings and ye for yours; and that We are sincere (in our faith) in Him?
2140
Or do ye say that Abraham, Isma'il Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes were Jews or Christians? Say Do ye know better than Allah? Ah! who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah? but Allah is not unmindful of what ye do!
2141
That was a people that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no question in your case
2142
The fools among the people will say "What hath turned them from the methods/lifestyles/beliefs to which they were used?" Say To Allah belongs all that is given rise to and all that is done away with He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight(siraat mustaqeem-the streight way).

peace

belH

Where is your proof of this claim?

Peace all,

If Macca is the place where God, though Abraham, Called people to make hajj to, Then where are the prooves that show that the great moslem prophets (e.g., Mosas, Isa, Solomon, Davied, Zakaria, Yahia) have visited Macca, even one time.
Do all the exited seen prooves show that these prophets have lived and Preeched in Jeruslem?
Does Maqam Abraham exist in Jeruslam (his tomb)? Or is it the two left foot prints in Macca (it shows that Abraham had two left Foot instead of left and right?

Peace

almarh0m

Peace

Peace all,

If Macca is the place where God, though Abraham, Called people to make hajj to, Then where are the prooves that show that the great moslem prophets (e.g., Mosas, Isa, Solomon, Davied, Zakaria, Yahia) have visited Macca, even one time.
Do all the exited seen prooves show that these prophets have lived and Preeched in Jeruslem?
Does Maqam Abraham exist in Jeruslam (his tomb)? Or is it the two left foot prints in Macca (it shows that Abraham had two left Foot instead of left and right? ]

Never mind asking for the proofs for the above mentioned prophets ever visited Macca , more important is .....Where is the proof that Ibrahim and his son ever went to Macca at all ?

Peace and Thank you

almarh0m

Peace