Where is the First Focal Point's place mentioned in the Quran?
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Salam,
If the place is not mentioned in Quran, then, should we accept that not everything revealed to the prophet are written in the Quran?
This question has been hunting me for a while and I realy want your feedback.
True, not everything God revealed to the prophet is mentioned in the Quran (like what was the secret he told his wives 663, or, what was the sign that Joseph saw that stopped him from lusting after the woman 1224). Therefore, what is recorded in the Qur'an is only the information we need to know, what is not there is of no significance to us.
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Peace Wakas,
Ayman earlier stated that the first focal point from which they turned was physical.That was why I asked him to where do they turned. He said to a non physical direction which seems not logical to me.
What do you think?
You may refer to the previous posts for the detail.
ZUBAIRUS
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Peace wakas,
When we talk of direction as physical, it could be north,south,west,east among others.The possibilities are that a person turns from one of the directions to another or stops facing any of them.
How possible/logical/reasonable it is that a person turn from a physical direction to non-physical direction?
It really calls for explanation brother wakas.
THINK ABOUT IT.
ZUBAIRUS
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I dont think a Non-Physical Direct is Logical at ALL.
As far as I know...When do you ever talk about facing a Place/Direction when its non-physical?
Its trying to take a well known thing and making it abstract/vauge enough to fit whatever you want.Direction has always been followed up by a place. (unless Directions meaning rules).
But just in the context.... Why would Allah say "Face the Direction"....then "The Direction was Changed"....then "All of the people know the Direction"...
if its not talking about a Specific Location?The Followers of the Non-Physical Direction say it mean basically "Follow Your Lords Direction" (a non-physical thing) basically meaning...Do what Allah Commands.
However, thats obvious, and has already been said numerous times in the Quran. It wouldnt make sense to 1st say that specifically....and 2nd say it again except this time making it abstract and confusing so people wont understand it.What would be the need of repeating the same thing in a totally different way?
Im for Physical.
and I Dont know if its Jerusalam or Mecca. -
Peace all
2143
the large sized word, Quibla, is translated by free minds as Focal Point.
I agree with you; thus, based on your conclusion
The first Focal Point (Qublia) direction was revealed only to Mohamed but It is not important for us to know about, and therefore, it was never a part of Quran. However, the second Qubila, the restricted Masjed, is part of Quran because it is important for us to know.Peace BelH,
You are making a huge assumption here, you are assuming that the first Qiblah was decreed by God. There is nothing in the Quran to base this conclusion off of. The first Qiblah could have only been based off of traditions, or it could have been decreed by Muhammad without divine inspiration.
The basis for my reasoning is that in 1064 it says that "God does not change His words". Therefor, I don't think the primary direction of the Qiblah was "God's words".
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The Qibla just means the direction you face... So it's not a physical place, just a direction which is based on a physical place..
Edip explains the Qibla really well in the footnote for his translation
http//quranix.net/#RTQ37
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Peace Zubairus,
When we talk of direction as physical, it could be north,south,west,east among others.The possibilities are that a person turns from one of the directions to another or stops facing any of them.
But 2142 clearly tells us that the foolish people ask "what turned them away from the (physical) direction that they were on?"
So the foolish people saw them turning away from a physical direction (since they can see it then it was physical and also the mention of the east and the west makes it clear that it was physical). Had they turned to another physical direction then, as you said, they would have asked "What turned them from one direction to another?"
How possible/logical/reasonable it is that a person turn from a physical direction to non-physical direction?
It really calls for explanation brother wakas.
THINK ABOUT IT.As I explained the question of the foolish people makes it clear that those who had faith turned away from a physical direction and not "from-to" another physical direction. As for being possible, I did it and I know many others who did it, so it is certainly possible as I can tell you from my own experience. In fact, everyone does it whether they like it or not when they set certain goals in their lives.
As for being logical, what is not logical is people fantacising that they face some buidling or stone cube when it is below the horizon when in fact they are facing outer space due to the curvature of the earth.
As for being reasonable, it is unreasonable to believe that facing a certain physical direction differentiates the hypocrites from the true believers. Hypocrites have no problem doing superficial but meaningless physical tokens of loyalty in the same way that a traitor or a spy has no problem saluting the flag of the country that he is scheming against. Hypocrites thrive on such superficial meaningless acts that only serve to show off. On the other hand true believers set their direction to be on the straight path as clear from 2142. So unless you claim that the straight path is a physical highway leading to some shrine or stone then the true direction that differentiates the hypocrites from those who have faith can't be physical. In fact, the physical direction would be important to the hypocrites and they would cling to it because all they know is the superficial physical showing off. So what differentiates the hypocrites from the believers is that the hypocrites would stay on the physical direction and make a big deal of it, while the believers know that the god is everywhere and they believe in the truth from him and when they set their direction towards it, they will be on the straight path.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace ayman
But 2142 clearly tells us that the foolish people ask "what turned them away from the (physical) direction that they were on?"
Take note,what the foolish people question was the act of turning away from a direction and not the act of stop facing a direction/abandoning the act of facing a direction. Furthermore, the mentioning of east and west did not just confirm that they turned from a physical direction but more importantly it was an indication that they turned from one direction to another.
I believe you know very well that the life we live comprises of our state of mind and its physical expression. The straight path ,the message from our merciful lord is a guide for humankind taken this fact into consideration.
When an act of physical is condemned, it is not because it is physical.We cannot eliminate physical act from our life. Your level of submission though best known to our the merciful lord, is attained via your physical expression of life. Yes, intention which is a state of mind is foremost but life is not confined to intention.
Look at these illustration, when you write and post, physical act , you may be out for nothing but fame,infact you may be hypocritical. when you take the message and read in the public, it may be an act of hypocracy, when you abstain from eating that you are fasting, who knows whether or not it is just a hunger strike you embarke on. When you give out of what you have to the needy, it could be out of your intention to enslave them. The examples are endless.
Yes physical act of any type can be impersonated.However,it can not elimated from the life of the righteous ones who have good intention.
So let us first establish whether or not the issue at stake is physical, then we ask of the wisdom behind it .
THINK ABOUT IT.
zubairus
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so what direction do you face?
Mecca... where else?
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I think there are many great reasons for a physical place.
If there is a physical place, I think it highlights the "One Ummah One Community" Mindset.
We all Pray towards the same place, we all meet at the same place, we all do Hajj at the same place...etc..we do Jummah at the same time.I LOVE that!
Unfortunatly that is not reality anymore.
now its... we pray where ever we want in different directions (if we even pray at all)
we do Hajj where ever we want differently...(we we even do hajj at all)
Even though MOST muslims pick Friday for "jumma" (meeting)...most people would rather just pick their own day...(if they even do it at all).
Ramadan....instead of everyone starting and stopping at a similair time...everyone will do ramadan when they feel is correct (if at all) and their own time legnths.http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/the-broken-chain1.jpg
So, I think that the verese is talking about a Physical Direction, and is good for community/Unity
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Peace all,
Here is the mentioning of the first Focal Point (see verses below); however, I could not find its place of directions in Quran ( as we know the second Focal point is toward the Ristricted Masjed).
The foolish from among the people will say ?What has turned them away from the focal point that they were on?? Say ?To God are the east and the west, He guides whomsoever He wishes to a straight path.?
2142
2-143 And as such, We have made you a balanced nation so that you may be witness over the people, and that the messenger may be witness over you. And We did not make the focal point that you became on except to distinguish who follows the messenger from those who will turn on their heels. It was a great thing indeed except for those whom God had guided; God was not to waste your belief. God is Merciful and Compassionate over the people.
Arabic
Original Text
2143
If the place is not mentioned in Quran, then, should we accept that not everything revealed to the prophet are written in the Quran?
This question has been hunting me for a while and I realy want your feedback.
ThanksPeace,
Respectfully.396 The first Sanctuary established for the people is the one in Bakka, blessed, and a guidance for the worlds.
397 In it are clear signs the station of Abraham. And whoever enters it will be secure. And God is owed from the people to make Pilgrimage to the Sanctuary, whoever can make a path to it. And whoever rejects, then God has no need of the worlds.This is the one that i found and i think it's pretty clear. Of course i could be mistaken, will check and may God increase us all in Knowledge.
Peace.
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this is it
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat10_files/10_105.gif
