It's no coincidence 19 is so important to Baha'is! It's related to code 19...

seattletruth

I always thought it was peculiar that number 19 was so important to the Baha'i cult, which is a direct off-shoot of Islam. On the submission.org page about the Baha'i faith, they claim that Satan was smart enough to find code 19 in the Quran, and because the Baha'i faith is satanic, he must have inspired the Bab to make 19 a focal point of the faith, in order to force Muslims to associate code 19 with "Baha'i kaffirs/mushriks". http//www.submission.org/bahaii.html

However, I finally found out the real reason today, while doing some research!

I was reading an interesting paper that was the "winner of the Baha'i Studies prize" written by a Baha'i, embracing code 19 in the Quran. http//bahai-library.com/unpubl.articles/disconnected.html

It's quite interesting for a number of reasons.

First, it's apparent that they embrace and praise the Quran as the only known unaltered word of God, outside of the works of the Bab and the Baha'ullah.

Second, they embrace code 19 and the scientific miracles in the Quran as miraculous proof that the Quran is legitimate, and that Muhammad was a true prophet.

But most interestingly, they talk about the real reason why number 19 was so important to the Bab! It details why 19 was chosen for their holy number, and it's directly linked to code 19.

The article says

Bismi'llahi'r-Rahmani'r-Rahim is the sacred formula placed before every surih of the Qur'an except the ninth. Some translate this "In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful" while others translate it," In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful." There are nineteen Arabic letters in this formula. The Bab has changed this formula to Bismi'llahi'l-Amna'i'l-Aqdas which when translated is, "In the Name of God, the Inaccessible, the Sanctified," however the number of letters has remained unchanged. These are symbolic of the nineteen Letters of the Living--eighteen disciples surrounding the nineteenth, the Bab Himself. For a period of forty days only Mulla Husayn believed in the Bab. Gradually other Letters were generated from the Primal Point as the Bab Himself describes

Understand in the same way the beginning of the manifestation of the Bayan during forty days no one but the letter Sin believed in B. It was only, little by little, that the Bismi'llahu'l-Amna'u'l-Aqdas clothed themselves with the garment of faith until finally the Primal Unity was completed. Witness then how it has increased until our day.

Shoghi Effendi confirms this when he writes, "Not until forty days had elapsed, however, did the enrollment of the seventeen remaining Letters of the Living commence." Note that the word for unity ln both Arabic and Persian is vahid and that the numerical values of the letters of this word add up to 19. The letter Sin is the first letter to follow the B in Bismi'llah (remembering that short vowels are not written). The Bab indicates that, "All that is in the Bayan is synthesized in one of the verses of the Bayan." He explains that this is the first verse Bismi'llahi'l-Amna'i'l-Aqdas and says, "All that is in the Bayan is synthesized in one of the verses, and it is He the B of Bismi'llah and this B is a proof in itself." The Bab is referring to the point which is beneath the B. Without that diacritical mark the letter would not exist. In both Arabic and Persian the B is a straight line with a point under it.

So, to paraphrase Apparently the Bab thought God was inspiring him to change the Basmallah from Bismi'llahi'r-Rahmani'r-Rahim to Bismi'llahi'l-Amna'i'l-Aqdas instead, which because he copied the basmallah, also had 19 letters. Then the Bab used these 19 letters as a symbolism for his followers, which he extended. He figured that he stood for the "B", and then said that the next follower of him was the "S". This is why he chose 18 deceiples (18+1), to complete his symbolism for his version of the basmallah! This is why number 19 was so important to them. This explains why they chose to rearrange their calendar in 19 months (even though this goes against the Quran... like much of their faith).

So there you have it.. It explains why code 19 and the Baha'i both see 19 as the central number.. Because both are based on the number of letters in the basmallah. It's not coincidence!

BTW, I highly recommend the paper.. It's long, but very well written.. But not highly researched on code 19.

RA786

Rashad Khalifah was not the first one to discover a Presence of 19 or any other mathamatical things in the Quran.
He was however the first to see it in its entierty and anounce it to the world...(an expounded view that surpassed Bahi)

I personnally may be wrong, since I am a conspiracy theorist...and have no solid proof...

However, I think the Bahi faith is a Unitarian Religion that some say is Zionist/satanist, and It could well be true (to me at least).
They have may Questionable things and many Secretes. (Secrete Society).
Their Bahi (is believed to be the Physical Manifestation of Allah---ASTAFIRUALLAH) and his Temple is a Rich decorative Mansion in Israel.
Along with their Oblisk and 5 pointed star.

I think there are allot of Occultic Symbology in this group.

as far as 19...Im not suprised... Many people knew about 19...just not to the degree that they found out in 1974.

*The Chinese Go Board (of life) has 19 boxes and is black/white.....Suspicious?

seattletruth

Bro, the most suspicious aspect of Baha'i faith is that they advocate a World Government.... Talk about NWO supporters.

I am a conspiracy nut, too. hmm

I agree that a lot of their stuff in Baha'i faith is pretty occult... And the whole religion is a sham, based on a false prophet... Much like the Rashadian cult.

And I know that many people knew about the numerical relationships between words in the Quran before 1970s...

I really found it interesting though that its not a coincidence at all that Baha'is also make 19 a focal point of their religion.... It's cuz they copied the Basmallah LOL

The_Khan

I'm an ex-conspiracy nut, an ex-follower of Rashad Khalifa, and been a Baha'i for a little over 20 Baha'i months.

There's nothing occult I've come across apart from the superstitious claims of certain Islamic conspiracy theorists. We are strong believers in the harmony of science and religion. Intellectual reasoning and faith go hand in hand.

On the other hand, a follower of Khalifa on this very forum claimed that I'm posessed by Satan and Jinns when I said I'm a high-functioning autistic individual (this was back when I first became a submitter).

That is perfectly logical reasoning, right?

Back in my Sunni days, I met an American Jew who argued with me that Muslims copied everything from the old testament and created Islam.

Will you choose to harbour the same resentment and narrow-minded attitude towards Baha'u'llah?

Cheers. )

RA786

Salaam Khan,

If I may Ask you.....

How far were you into the Bahi faith?
Are you Still aparty of the Bahi faith?
Does the Bahi Faith Practice Quran Alone?

I dont mean to Offend you. If you remember me saying in yearlier post....I dont have much evidence to support my biasm against the Bahi faith. That may sound very ignorant, however.... I value the bahi faith as I would Freemasonry, 5 percenters, Nation of Islam, Ahmyayydiah, or any other religion/sect that is remotly close to the idea of having a NewQuran or A Physical Manifestation of Allah, or a Prophet after Muhammad.

All of the above seem to be remotly close to one of those Idea's.

I think there is Occultism in the Bahi faith as I would in any other religion. even Sunnism has some Occtuic symbolism.

As I pointed out, I think the Architecture of the Bahi temple, the Oblisk, and the Bahi Star are Occultic. I think Even the vary consept of a Human God is Occultic.

I havent seen any of your Acts so....I wouldnt say you were posses by jinn. However, I think that many religious Figures who have talent in certin things may infact be possessed by jinn to do those things.

Abdullah Hashim calls them "dajjals". Such as the guy who can turn Gold into his hand from thin air. Usually these People start their own religions and have their own followers. ..... I wonder what amazing talents Bahhilah did in order to be reocognized...Givin the fact that he is said to be the Physical Manifestation of God.

I mean thats a pretty hefty title to bear....He must have shown the people some sort of amazing show.

Do you believe he is the manifestation of God?

Sorry, But I dont think God can Manifest into a Human. "Cant" in the sense that it would be a logical Fallacy due to the fact that God is Unlimited...therefore cannot be in a state of limitation.

seattletruth

Both the Bab, and Baha'ullah were liars and false prophets. Why should I respect them?

First the Bab declared himself to be "the Gate" of the hidden Imam. Then he declared to be that Imam himself. Then he declared himself to be Muhammad too. And the Baha'ullah declared himself to be GOD! They are both liars. Look at some of the claims they made

It is mentioned in the Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics under the title 'Bab', that the Bahais called Mirza Alimohammed Bab as "Rabbi-ul-Ala (The Most Elevated Lord) and Bahaullah as "Haqqe Ta?la (The True God).
Bahaullah mentions in Aqdas, page 43, "There is no God but I the Honoured , the Wise".
He again writes in Aqdas, page 144 "Accept whatever is commanded by Baha (himself) the Lord of Eternity".
In Aqdas, page 8, "We have sent down all the Messengers and we have revealed all the Books".
In Istadaaraat, page 34, Bahaullah writes, "The Master of Eternity lies in prison".
In his Tablets, Page 217, Bahaullah writes, "All save me are created from my command".
In his Al-Mubeen, page 34, Bahaullah writes "All praise is for you O Bahaullah, the Creator of existence".
In the same book, page 190, he says, "Obey the commands of your Elevated, Splendorous God, Bahaullah.
Again in Al-Mubeen, page 297, he again refers to himself as, "You Most beneficent Lord, Bahaullah",
In his Tajalliyaat (Tajalli number 4), page 5, Bahaullah decrees, "Most surely I am Allah. There is no God save me. I am the Lord of everything. The O my creatures, you worship me alone".
Abdul Baha writes in Badaaiul Aasaar, page 139, Bahaullah is unique, Incomparable. It is necessary for everyone to turn towards Bahaullah in his prayers. (View the page online)
In Maftoon, page 15, Bahaullah writes to his son Abdul Baha, "This s a letter from Allah, the Honoured and the Wise (Bahaullah) to Allah the Gracious, the Aware (Abdul Baha)." This is interesting - one God greets another one!

RA786

Astagfirullah o nope

hey...common now...You cant comprare Submitters (Rashad Khalifa) to Bahi's. Thats totally excessive.

The_Khan

Salaam Khan,

Wasalaam RS786 )

If I may Ask you.....

Sure, you may. )

How far were you into the Bahi faith?

Like I said, I've been a Baha'i for 20 Baha'i months. To be exact, I've been a Baha'i since Febuary 28, 2009.

Are you Still aparty of the Bahi faith?

I'm a strong believer in the Baha'i faith, and everyday, my love for the cause grows stronger and stronger.

Does the Bahi Faith Practice Quran Alone?

The Baha'i faith is an independent religion with its own laws and practices suited for this day and age (and for the next 850+ years to come). If you mean 'Qu'ran alone' as in monotheism, the Baha'i faith has expanded the concept of God, the afterlife, etc. If you mean Qur'an alone as in the rituals and practices as mentioned in the Qur'an or explained by Rashad Khalifa - no, the laws of the Qur'an have been changed for this dispensation, just like how prophet Muhammad did not hesitate to change the Qiblah to Mecca and abolished many laws and practices of pagan Arabia.

I dont mean to Offend you. If you remember me saying in yearlier post....I dont have much evidence to support my biasm against the Bahi faith. That may sound very ignorant, however.... I value the bahi faith as I would Freemasonry, 5 percenters, Nation of Islam, Ahmyayydiah, or any other religion/sect that is remotly close to the idea of having a NewQuran or A Physical Manifestation of Allah, or a Prophet after Muhammad.

Baha'u'llah is not a 'physical manifestation'. An explanation to this concept is explained by Baha'is everywhere, a single google search and selection of a non-biased source will suffice.

All of the above seem to be remotly close to one of those Idea's.

Depends how you see it. To me prophet Muhammad was the last Nabi, but not the last Rasool. There's a huge margin of difference between the two terms.

I think there is Occultism in the Bahi faith as I would in any other religion. even Sunnism has some Occtuic symbolism.

As in symbols and numbers? It's not important to Baha'is, they're mainly symbolic. For example, I wear a ring with the ringstone symbol to remind myself to follow the teachings of the faith in public.

As I pointed out, I think the Architecture of the Bahi temple, the Oblisk, and the Bahi Star are Occultic. I think Even the vary consept of a Human God is Occultic.

It's just architecture. Nothing special about it. Architects choose to build according to the numbers of the faith like how Muslims prefer to build minarets over mosques. We both know minarets are not strictly binding - neither is the number 9.

As for the concept of God in the Baha'i faith, we are taught that God is unseeable, unknowable, he is the most manifest of the manifest, yet most hidden of the hidden.

I havent seen any of your Acts so....I wouldnt say you were posses by jinn. However, I think that many religious Figures who have talent in certin things may infact be possessed by jinn to do those things.

The Baha'i faith teaches that Jinns/Satan are the evil in mens minds, and that prophet Muhammad taught this concept in such a fashion as the illiterate people of the middle east were not ready to completely abolish their pagan beliefs.

Abdullah Hashim calls them "dajjals". Such as the guy who can turn Gold into his hand from thin air. Usually these People start their own religions and have their own followers. ..... I wonder what amazing talents Bahhilah did in order to be reocognized...Givin the fact that he is said to be the Physical Manifestation of God.

No Muslim, whether submitter or hadithist, disagrees with Muhammad's saying that the Qur'an is his miracle. The same applies with the Baha'i faith - the miracle is the revelation. You can read about Baha'u'llah to find out about his life.

I mean thats a pretty hefty title to bear....He must have shown the people some sort of amazing show.

Being born into a rich noble family, giving up his riches for the poor, suffering imprisonment in a dungeon with a 40 kg chain around his neck for following the Bab, being exiled far away from his home and imprisoned in the worst of prison cities for proclaiming the cause of God. That's his amazing show, in brief.

Do you believe he is the manifestation of God?

100%, as were Muhammad and the other messengers before him and the Bab.

Sorry, But I dont think God can Manifest into a Human. "Cant" in the sense that it would be a logical Fallacy due to the fact that God is Unlimited...therefore cannot be in a state of limitation.

Everyone is free to his own beliefs.

There is no compulsion in religion - The Qur'an.

@Seattletruth Your comments on the Bab are incorrect. He claimed to be the promised Qa'im, and the gate to he who'm God shall make manifest.

The manifestations write in two patterns - one in which they are totally submissive to their Lord, humble and pure. The other pattern of writing are the words of God, which are channeled through their human bodies.

Also, many of the phrases you have copy-pasted from Baha'i awareness (yes, indeed, I did read this website before becoming a Baha'i) are poorly (or rather, purposely) mis-translated to satisfy the whims and fancies of Hojjatieh, the anti-Baha'i organisation which funds that website. Just for your information, Hojjatieh is responsible for numerous murders of innocent Baha'is in Iran.

Unfortunately, I can't answer any more questions today due to personal reasons. You are, however, free to independently investigate the Baha'i faith from non-biased sources.

I wish you all a good day. )

seattletruth

Astagfirullah o nope

hey...common now...You cant comprare Submitters (Rashad Khalifa) to Bahi's. Thats totally excessive.

How is it excessive?

They both accept their martyred cult leaders even though their claims were ridiculous.

I've already explained how the claims of the Bab and the Baha'ullah were ridiculous, but let's remember the claims of Rashad

Rashad received 3 times as much divine revelation as Muhammad (3 Qurans), yet Rashad wasn't technically a prophet. Only a Nabi.
Rashad recieved 3 times as much scripture as Muhammad, even though Muhammad was the last prophet.
Rashad declared that Satan is the temporary God of earth, and the one who will shed blood throughout the land, even though it's clear that that Satan doesn't have enough power to shed blood, all Satan can do is whisper to us. It's clear that the khalifa mentioned in 230 is MAN, from the context and usage.
Rashad declared that only his explanations were to be accepted of the Quran, while Muhammad was banned from explaining the Quran.
Rashad declared that you must reject every single hadith about Muhammad, but you must accept every single hadith that Rashad wrote, or you will go to hell for not supporting the messenger.
Rashad declared you must accept his tafseer, while rejecting all others, or else you would go to hell.
Rashad wanted all "Arabs" to be killed by a asteroid because they wouldn't accept him as a messenger, or delete verses from their Quran.
Rashad said it's shirk to focus on anything but the Quran, yet then wanted you to read and rely solely on his thousands of footnotes, 38 appendices, thousands of words that he ADDED to the Quran. His Quran wasn't simply a Quran, so it's not "Quran Alone" at all. It's full of Hadith and Tafseer too.
Rashad claimed that you should get 100 lashings for cheating on your spouse, yet thought it was a great idea to force a 16 year old girl to undress, then manipulated her breasts, as part of "research on the Aura".
Rashad claimed that it's shirk to believe in verse 9128 and 9128, and that they are from Satan. He said that they were verses written by Satan himself, and were NEVER authorized by God. Yet, then said that God wrote ALL THREE of the versions of his translations, including his 1981 version (which I own to verify), where it included verse 9128 and 9129. So he says they were inspired to him FROM GOD HIMSELF, although he says you must reject them, or else you will go to hell, because they are from Satan.

Edip_Yuksel

Any person who makes mockery of the Quran's prophetic numerical structure by any means possible are well described in verse 7431. It is a test to distinguish those who will regress or progress.

All the previous miracles that were shown by previous messengers of God had more ingrates mockers and rejectors than the witnesses. Read 7146.

Peace,
Edip

RA786

I dont agree with everything Rashad Said, however, Im pretty sure Rashad never clamied or was said to be remotely close to being called "God himself".

Question for Khan Do bahi's believe in Rashad Khalifa as a Messenger of the Covenent?

Here is what I find Suspicious about the Bahi Faith

On their Pillars of their homes of Worship, They Inscribe The Cresent Moon/Star, Star of David, Cross and Swastika (hindu/janism/buddhism).
All of these symbols are deeply rooted in occultism, kabbalism, alchemy, and things of that nature.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that a True Religion of GOD would Ironically include Symbolism on their temples that are Ironically against the the original Religions that this Supposed "True" religion includes.

Let me Explain.

The Cross is a Symbol that has absolutley nothing to do with True Christianity>aka Followers of Isa bin Maryum>a.k.a. "Islam".
The Cross either Right side up Or Upside down is used in many Occult Rituals and is said to represent Slavery. It has NO validity in Christianty, as most Historians believe that it would not be Historically correct for a man to be put on a cross at that time but rather a plain STAKE, since a plain stake was customary at that time.

The Cross was later introduced by probabily Pegans.

The Star of David has nothing to do with True Judaism>aka Followers of Moses>aka "Islam". It is a Symbol that is used to promote pain and oppression and many said Magic/Occultism/satanism etc.... A great Article can be found on Brother Abdun Nur's Website about the Symbol Star.

The Cresent Moon and star also has nothing to do with True Islam. Nearly All FAKE ISLAMIC COUNTRIES have this star on their flags and mosjids. This Symbol is said to have been from the Pegan Godess Diana as well as other pegan places. It is Non-islamic and can be found in every oppressive nation that claims "islam".
Its a pegan symbol and is used to be Above the name of Allah...(by the kings of deception).

The Most Ironic Fact is that ALL of these Above Symbols can be found on Flags of nations that are Oppressive, and follow a FAKE version of the Religion they claim to follow. All of these Symbols have become Offical symbols of religion even if they have not been ordained by God. They represent false Religion.

Cresnt Moon represents "Current Hadithist Islam"
The Cross Represents "Current king james/Constinetine/paul/pope/occultic Christianity"
Star of david represents "Current Zionistic Judaism/kabbala/babalonian era"

So inconclusion.
If all of these Symbols represent the Altered Religions.....why would the Bahi faith use/display them in/on their temples?

seattletruth

Any person who makes mockery of the Quran's prophetic numerical structure by any means possible are well described in verse 7431. It is a test to distinguish those who will regress or progress.

All the previous miracles that were shown by previous messengers of God had more ingrates mockers and rejectors than the witnesses. Read 7146.

Peace,
Edip

Edip, where did I even talk about rejecting code 19 in this thread? I was merely mentioning the proven relationship between code 19 and the Baha'i faith.

The_Khan

RA786, I smiled reading your post, for it reminded me of what I was a few years ago. )

No, we absolutely do not consider Dr Rashad Khalifa to have anything to do with revelation. Nor do we consider Dr Dahesh, Sri Sathya Sai Baba, Osho, Amma, or any other such figures to have anything to do with divinity.

The Baha'i faith is a completely new and independent religion. It is as different from Islam as Christianity is from Judaism.

The pillars you are talking about are found in only one house of worship - the one in Wilmette, Illinois. The architect choose that particular design to promote the oneness of religion. We don't look at symbols in anyway apart from them representing a particular faith. We are very well aware that symbols denote constellations, the Sun, pagan elements, etc. However, to us, it is an irrelevant topic. In the Baha'i faith, we use our symbols mainly to differentiate ourselves from other religions.

The Lotus Temple, for example, has been built in the shape of a Lotus, to reflect Indian culture. Does this imply that we promote idolatry inside this house of worship? Of course not. It is strictly forbidden.

For example, we all know denotes the name of God. However, some claim that the Arabic form of this word was inspired by the Hindu/Zoroastrian trident, as depicted in this fire temple http//www.pbase.com/rlankenau/image/48867474

Does that by any chance mean that the name of God is an occult form of fire worship?

I club all of these allegations as nonsense. I never take any of these things seriously. I mean no offense, but on this website, I only found Layth's article on Islamic etiquette to be of any value.

The main essense of religion is to unite. If religion is the cause of disunity, then there's no need for religion. This is what Baha'u'llah has taught.

We don't argue about whether this ritual is wrong or correct, whether reciting a messenger's name in prayer is incorrect or so on. It's all irrelevant mumbo-jumbo.

Sure, code 19 is a great miracle. However, if a person claims that he/she will go to heaven merely for recognising this miracle and does things which are contrary to faith, then prophet Muhammad would have spent only a few minutes talking about 19 and returned back to managing Khatijah's business. There would have been no need for him and the early believers to have been persecuted to such great extents.

RA786

well peace khan, thank you for your reply and for your kindness.

Whatever path you choose, I hope Allah will open your heat/mind and bless you.

There are good qualities of the Bahi faith, however some that I just cannot accept.

Such as the belief in Bahillah as an Elevated human, extreame adoration, and then what you call the "Expanded concept of God"...meaning Messenegers are Manifestations of Allah.

Also, I cannot accept the article of fatih in the bahi faith that says that Islam is only for the past time and generation.
Out of All my readings of the Quran, It would seem to me that the Quran was the BEST Source for Law,Religion,and Politics that would solve many of the Socital Problems we face.

I believe it was the best Manifesto back then as it is now and in the Future. So, I suppose I disagree with the Bahi belief that Islam was just a Passing Phase of the people at a certain time period. Actually, out of reading the Quran, and trying to understand its context...it would seem that Quite the Opposite it true. The Quran always talked to me in a way that was like "THIS IS THE LAST BOOK and LAST PROPHET....AFTER THIS, COMES JUDGMENT DAY."

I mean Arent there vereses that Actually say "This is the last revelation form your lord."?...if not it seemed that way to me.

The_Khan

Thanks for your warm compliments.

To be honest, the Baha'i faith teaches that religion, at its core, is the same. With every new dispensation, the laws, practices, and interpretations change depending on the social situation. This means that the Baha'i faith is indeed Islam - just a new form of it, like how Islam was a new form of monotheism as revealed by Jesus Christ.

Regarding 'manifestation' and Muhammad, the method of revelation from Muhammad was just the same as Baha'u'llah, with the difference that the angelic figure, Gabriel (what was the burning bush for Moses and the maid of heaven for Baha'u'llah) took human form in most instances. However, in other periods, this is how prophet Muhammad received revelation (I read it in Martin Lings book) Sometimes it cometh unto Me like the reverberations of a bell, and that is the hardest upon Me; the reverberations abate when I am aware of their message.

And this is how Baha'u'llah described the coming of revelation During the days I lay in the prison of Teheran through the galling weight of the chains and the stench-filled air allowed Me but little sleep, still in those infrequent moments of slumber I felt as if something flowed from the crown of My head over My breast, even as a mighty torrent that precipitateth itself upon the earth from the summit of a lofty mountain. Every limb of My body would, as a result, be set afire. At such moments My tongue recited what no man could bear to hear.

Hence, they were both manifestations. People usually misunderstand the word manifestation as 'incarnation'. Both are different terms. The oxford dictionary describes 'to manifest' as 'to make clear and evident'. The Baha'i understanding of the term 'manifestation of God' implies a human being who is so completely pure, that he perfectly reflects God's beauty to this world.

Regarding judgement day, we believe it has passed. It only depicts the chaos which occurs in the world (which has been happening since the Bab's dispensation), the mindless hate on the grounds of religion & sectarianism, apart from other reasons, and the growth of irreligion, of immorality. The signs such as 'Heaven and Earth shall be split asunder' are symbolic for this chaos, and resurrection of bodies implies resurrection of souls (explained here http//bahai-library.org/unpubl.articles/resurrection.html )

And no, there's no such message which says that 'this is the last revelation'. The only aya I know of is regarding Muhammad being the last Nabi. On the other hand, I found 33% of the Qur'an implying the advent of Baha'u'llah. There's a book called - Baha'u'llah the Great announcement of the Qur'an. You might find it interesting if you wish to read it.

I apologise for my incoherant English, I'm not feeling well today. I must share this nice video I discovered today, which introduces the Baha'i faith in a clear manner http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-nC-1AF_fM&feature=related

RA786

I've Read Brother Abdun Nur's Articles as well as constructed my own theorys based on reflection.

I also agree that All religion has a Central Core that is the Same. I use a Water based Analogy.

I believe That All Beliefs are in a Way Like Rivers....
Amazon=Native Naturalist Beliefs
Nile=Buddism
Joran=Jewdaism
Mississippi= Hinduism Etc..Etc...Etc
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/Ocean.gif
Every One of them Share many Commonalities, But Also Lots of Differences.
Each Rivers Main Goal is to return to the Source from which it came.
(the Ocean).
Some Rivers Take Longer to reach the Ocean than others...and some Rivers if taken the Wrong way, end up in a lake going nowhere.
Anybody can see the Differences in these Rivers. There Are Different Plants, Animals, Ecosystems, Color, and Temperature, BUT they are ALL water.
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/Parana.jpg
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/muskrat1-787204.jpg
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/Nileriver.jpg

Basically to make a long story short, I think that All relgion is made of the same basic Substance...H2O (water) The Goal of use Travelers is to Return to the Source again. I am begining to see How Hinduism, Buddism, Islam, Christianity, Native Religions, and an Athiest's Quanum Phisics..begin to become Connected.

I agree that We are unified through the Great Single Conciouness/Creator (i.e. Allah). I feel we are all connected and can (through action ordained by the Quran) develoupe attributes such as the 99 names of Allah.

So far I believe the Theory that we are all Kahlifahs (or have the Potential to be and that is the Goal)....I believe we all have the Potential to be "Christ-like" in the sense of forbidding evil and doing good/pure deeds...which will elivate us. I believe that there is a certain Point in which if One does enough good...he will be able to be "Prophet Link" in the sense of Goodness...but not in the sense of revealing any new scripture.

This is where I disagree with Bahilah.
Also, It would seem very odd that there is sooo much adoration for Bahilah. which to me seems hypocritical. At least in my mind if someone was to reach such a level...I would Imagine them to be humble and accept no credit or adoration from anyone, and rather adore the concept of Tawhid.

Here is another thing I have to say... Do you feel that the Bahi faith has failed in someways just like the Other religions?
For instance, Buddhism failed in the Sense that Budda became an Idol of Worship...Jesus become an Idol of Worship, Muhammad became an idol of worship, and so on.... Do you feel that Bahilah has become an idol of worship?

Also, is there different Sects in Bahism as well as disagreements and strife as there is in everyother religion?
Or is Bahism magically Immune from such things and is such a panacea as many people claim it is?

Here is a topic on another forum....

Is the Bahi Faith a NWO religion?
http//www.wakeupproject.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1171

The_Khan

Ah, I suspected that you derived your views from The Arrivals and nooreaga films in general. I was one of the first to be introduced to The Arrivals. ^^

I understand your points of view, although I can't agree with them.

To answer your questions - no, there is no idol worship of any form in the Baha'i faith. We try to detach ourselves and dedicate our souls to becoming closer to God, not letting the changes and chances of the world affect us. We do, indeed, consider Baha'u'llah to be the hidden mystery and the key to unlocking the secrets of divine oneness. However, we do not seek 'intercession' as in how many Muslims perform tawassul. We truly attempt to become nearer and closer to God, alone and in privacy.

However, this does not mean that this will persist forever. A thousand years after Baha'u'llah, a new manifestation will come, expanding existing concepts, changing laws and practices, etc, and his teachings will shock Baha'is in general as in how Baha'u'llah's teachings have shocked Muslims and members of other faiths.

All attempts at dividing the Baha'i faith have miserably failed. The largest group, the 'Orthodox Baha'is', have merely a few dozen active members. Unlike other dispensations of the past, sectarianism will never be an issue with Baha'is.

I personally find the descriptions of the Baha'i faith in Islamic forums to be hilarious - they are poorly researched and without any justification. It's like how Christians continue to portray Islam as a moon-worshiping cult despite all attempts at debunking those myths.

RA786

So your telling me that there is not a constant rule or Law?
That it changes over time according to how Society is?

This doesnt make any sense. I thnk there is a Divine Law that is Consistant and Constant throughout the ages.

What this looks liketo me is a Religion that has mixed in all the "Good" aspects of Other Religions, Elevated a founder, included mysterious alchemy-type of symbolism, built their mansion and Jusice House in Israel (haha very Ironic to have a Justice house in israel huh?) and then creates new laws to superceed old ones as society Progresses (or regresses) according to their beliefs.

If Prophet Muhammad was the "Comforter" and the Prophesized one who will Unite the world under the banner of Submission, why would there be a need to include New Prophets over and over and over and over again? whats the Purpose of that?
If Muhammad fulfilled his Duty, then why introduce a new religion/person?

Hasent This day your religion has been Perfected?

Also, Do Bahi's view Israel as an Oppressive Force or are they Cool with Israel since the "House of Justice" is located there?
Do you at all see the Irony in that?

------EDIT------------------

Khan, tell me about the Meetings.

Is this True Or Hearsay, that in the Bahi faith there are Confedential meetings in which you must meet with a Master/teacher to perhaps advise you on certain aspects of the Religion? have you heard of these types of Confedential/Secrete Meetings?

If so, why would they have to be Secrete?

The_Khan

In that case, divine revelation should have revealed by Abraham, and Abraham alone, right? If revelation was constantly the same, there wouldn't have been any need for other revelations.

I've already explained on how irrelevant the topic of symbols really is.

The Baha'i faith has been based in the Holy Land since the days of Baha'u'llah. He was exiled to the Ottoman Empire by the Shah of Iran, then the Caliph of the Ottoman Empire exiled him to the prison-city of Akka. During this period, the remains of the Bab were transferred to the holy land, and his resting place lies on mount Carmel. When the governor of Akka relaxed Baha'u'llah's terms of imprisonment, he went to the foothills of Mount Carmel and revealed the tablet confirming the establishment of the future UHJ, thereby fulfilling a major biblical prophecy. Ever since that period, the Baha'i faith has been firmly established in the holy land, regardless of which regime controlled the territory, whether it was the the Ottoman Empire, the British mandate of Palestine, or the state of Israel. We don't engage in partisan politics, and respect the laws of the countries where we reside.

Where was no 'Israel' back then, and the very topic of 'Zionism' was unheard of. However, since 1844, the Ottoman Empire did allow European Jews to 'emigrate' to the holy land, once again fulfilling major Islamic/Biblical prophecies.

Muhammad fulfilled his duty and ended the tyranny of the tribes of Arabia. Islam expanded and introduced science and civilisation to the world. The fruits of Islam established themselves rendering powerful Islamic Empires which bought culture and prosperity.

Where is that now? Just like how Christianity collapsed and ushered in the dark ages in Europe, the same has happened to the Islamic world. You have groups like the militants of Somalia, who stone rape victims to death, ruining the beautiful name of Islam. You have groups like the submitters, who assert that only those who believe in their numerology are free from shirk. You have the Ayatollahs of Iran, who pass fatwas allowing prison guards to rape victims as torture, who break every known ordinance in the Qur'an. You have groups on the internet, trying to link symbols and structures to Satan, cursing and vilifying certain individuals like Madonna, who has done many charitable activities for the poor in many countries. Again, not one of these people have implemented a single teaching of the Qur'an, not even the simple forms of etiquette http//www.free-minds.org/etiquette

I went on a personal quest to find a single Muslim who follows the teachings of the Qur'an. I found many of them. They call themselves Baha'is.

Khan, tell me about the Meetings.

Is this True Or Hearsay, that in the Bahi faith there are Confedential meetings in which you must meet with a Master/teacher to perhaps advise you on certain aspects of the Religion? have you heard of these types of Confedential/Secrete Meetings?

If so, why would they have to be Secrete?

Utter rubbish!

We have devotional meetings. We meet, in groups, pray, discuss the holy writings, and perhaps eat if the host has invited us for dinner. There's no clergy or such in the Baha'i faith. I personally have contacted the Universal House of Justice regarding the use of a particular controversial medicine. One of our LSA members was a close friend of many important early Baha'i figures, including the wife of the guardian.

Also, regarding the state of Israel, we don't engage in any politics. We are, however, concerned for human rights, and strive to help oppressed people in all countries regarding of nationality. We help by providing aid, many Baha'i-inspired NGOs such as the Tahirih foundation help female victims who are abused all over the world, etc.

I find the topic of Israel to be fascinating. While the state of Israel was responsible for 1,141 civillian deaths in the 2006 Lebanon war, nobody commented on 280,000 dead in the Darfur genocide. Muslims killing black-skinned Muslims, and no major response from any Islamic country.

RA786

You dont believe that Madonna, Lady ga-ga and other individuals practice Occultic things?

I am sorry sir, but I think it is rather very obvious. Regurdless of the Charity that is beind done by these individuals (which I do respect that part), There is TONS of other things being Presented.
I am sure that Jay Z, president bush, and others have done charity. but that is irrelevant to what that are invovled in.

Anyways, If that is what you feel then the choice is yours. To me, I feel I can disagree with many aspects of Bahism, as I do anyother religion, however agree on the commonality that we share. and by this Commonality, I feel we all can coexist.

As far as your last post goes, Yes I know that After Abraham came many other Prophets, However, in the Quran it says The Religion has been Perfected (i.e. Completed) and Muhammad is the Seal, as well as giving news that judgement day is comming, and no mention of a new and comming prophet.
as far as I believe, Muhammad is the Last Prophet and Islam is the Solution.

I guess we interpret Judgment day, seal, and the Quran in a very different way.

so, I say Good day. ;D

Well I believe that Most Islamic Countries are appart of the Evil Agenda, and are just as guilty as Isreal is as they work for the same employer.