one Question for Quranists
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If he was not collecting it from various people in the streets, then from where he got a million "hadith" from which he selected only about 4500 for his book and threw the rest in the dust bin? Was he not the rejector of majority of hadith he collected and then threw away?
well, he collected hadith and he studied the matan and the sanad and the rawi, by this way he leave no chance to make a mistake. you'll know this thing if you studied the hadith.
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well, he collected hadith and he studied the matan and the sanad and the rawi, by this way he leave no chance to make a mistake. you'll know this thing if you studied the hadith.
Evasive reply reflective of doubts in your mind. (1) From where he collected a million hadith? (2) Did he get it from some book of hadith written earlier than his time? (3) From where he collected the information about the sanad and rawi except orally from people in the street? (4) Why was he roaming in streets and place to place in search of finding some saying if he had written record with him?
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Evasive reply reflective of doubts in your mind.
Doubts of what ?
(1) From where he collected a million hadith?
from where ? is this a question, I think you have never asked yourself this question, that's why you have asked it now to know the answer .
the hadith has been written before Bukhari years ago, and people at this time were good in keeping what they heard in their hearts not like us today we can't remember what we ate yesterday.
the hadith has been written in the existence of the prophet by Abu Horaira and lots of Sahaba, and they have taught people the hadith and people wrote it also until the age of Omar Bno Abdel Aziz who ordered to write hadith in books and classified it ( at this time the sons of the friends of the prophet were alive, so they taught people what they got from their parent which they were with the prophet). then after that it came a great sheikh called Imam Malik and he also classified hadith and he wrote just the Sahih and at this time was another sheikh Called Imam Shafi"ai who did the same job known that they were in separate places, then it was just a few years and the age announced the great man Bukhari who did classify hadith and studied the way of the rowatte and their validity and the Sanad and the Matan, even he beated in his age every all-knowing in ahadith (I guess it was a gift from God), they have challenged him, and he won the challenge and he became famous, then at the time of his existence arose another man called Muslim who did a great efforts in searching in his own the validity of ahadith and he found the same results of Bukhari with a little bit of difference in the number. what you don't know that after the death of the prophet, the Sahaba spread on earth and taught every nation this hadith of the prophet and they taught them the sunnah of the prophet.
You know that there was 100.000 Sahabi around the prophet, so how you think that hadith will be manipulated? and how can Bukhari predict events have already happened ? and how can Bukhari or any other Sahaba lied and they knew that the liar (especially who lied about the prophet) will dwell the hell?.
(2) Did he get it from some book of hadith written earlier than his time?
Yes, Before Bukhari, there were men lived with the friends of the prophet. like Ash'ab . and there were schools of FIQH.
(3) From where he collected the information about the sanad and rawi except orally from people in the street?
No, wrong....the Oral things are for Rowatte ( he asked for example their families and their friends and their sons about their parents who they wrote the hadith, and he was trying to find a mistake in their life, a small mistake from his parents Bukhari rejected the hadith). one day Bukhari have asked a sheikh about hadith and he knew that this man has lied to animals, so he rejected the hadith because he lied to an animal.
the hadith was in paperes before Bukhari, he just classified it and studied the "" and he rejected every hadith contradicts with Quran.(4) Why was he roaming in streets and place to place in search of finding some saying if he had written record with him?
he was roaming in streets and place to place in search of finding the shouyoukh of hadith not looking for kids, there were schools of FIQH before and the second aim of his roaming is to make sure of the Sanad, because people before they don't like to say any hadith without its Sanad to avoid lying about the prophet.
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the hadith has been written in the existence of the prophet by Abu Horaira and lots of Sahaba,
How long did Abu Huraira spend WITH the prophet?what you don't know that after the death of the prophet, the Sahaba spread on earth and taught every nation this hadith of the prophet and they taught them the sunnah of the prophet.
Did they also manage to remember to teach a bit of Quran while they were so engrosed teaching that which the prophet told them not to?No, wrong....the Oral things are for Rowatte ( he asked for example their families and their friends and their sons about their parents who they wrote the hadith, and he was trying to find a mistake in their life, a small mistake from his parents Bukhari rejected the hadith
one day Bukhari have asked a sheikh about hadith and he knew that this man has lied to animals, so he rejected the hadith because he lied to an animal.).
Bukhari was born 200 years after the prophet died, the sons of those who wrote the hadith would also be dead, how did he ask the sons about their parents mistakes? If he was looking for fabricated hadith and mistakes, how come he kept all Abu hurairas hadith who was a known 'story teller' of fabricated tales and rejected someones because he 'lied to an animal'?the hadith was in paperes before Bukhari, he just classified it and studied the "" and he rejected every hadith contradicts with Quran.
there are still many that contradict Quran, there are many that ADD to the Quran, how do you explain that? There is no stoning for adultery in Quran, did God forget to tell the prophet that before Quran was put in written form? Did God send him memo's and 'PS's' after Quran was 'complete'?he was roaming in streets and place to place in search of finding the shouyoukh of hadith not looking for kids, there were schools of FIQH before and the second aim of his roaming is to make sure of the Sanad, because people before they don't like to say any hadith without its Sanad to avoid lying about the prophet.
You still assume that all these people are good people and that when Allah said he has sent enemies to EVERY prophet that they are not among these people, illogical. You are still forgetting the 200 year gap between Muhammeds death and Bukharis birth, add on a few more years for bukhari to grow a bit as I doubt he started collecting and interviewing from his mothers breast.
Sorry, well brainwashed, learnt and recited but if you DO actually use your mind and think and reflect you will see it makes no sense. No wonder you are told not to use your own mind in religious matters by the enemies of God's Book
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one day Bukhari have asked a sheikh about hadith and he knew that this man has lied to animals, so he rejected the hadith because he lied to an animal.
Did he cheat the animals too? An animal con he was. The animals must have lists of known and wanted criminals, maybe even an international police force...Animals Without Boundaries Task Force Inc or some such. On the other hand, realistically (ahem) how does one lie to an animal? C'mere kitty, there's some nice warm milk, just behind that door...hey now, don't be scared, just go on in and drink up...a little more... there you go...BAM! the hammer falls. Poor kitty.
This has to be a wind up. There's no way anyone would seriously make statements like this or that people are ALL born right-handed and curse the devious parents/environment/snacks for their left-handedness.
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This has to be a wind up. There's no way anyone would seriously make statements like this or that people are ALL born right-handed and curse the devious parents/environment/snacks for their left-handedness.
Happens all the time here, twins turn into cats at night and go out to play too. ;D
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How long did Abu Huraira spend WITH the prophet?
they said 4 years but I think it's more than 4 years.
Did they also manage to remember to teach a bit of Quran while they were so engrosed teaching that which the prophet told them not to?
No, that's why someone likes you know Quran.
Bukhari was born 200 years after the prophet died, the sons of those who wrote the hadith would also be dead, how did he ask the sons about their parents mistakes?
is that mean that the sons of the sons of the Sahaba are vanished ? I know a woman lived 124 years and she rememebered the tiny events of her childhood.. give it a break.
If he was looking for fabricated hadith and mistakes, how come he kept all Abu hurairas hadith who was a known 'story teller' of fabricated tales and rejected someones because he 'lied to an animal'?
lol, lack of knowledge, he kept just 446 hadith from Abu Horaira. there were 5374 hadith from Horaira.
Yes, he was very careful about collecting hadith, so he didn't take hadith from someone lies to an animal.
there are still many that contradict Quran, there are many that ADD to the Quran, how do you explain that?
No, there is no Hadith contradicts Quran, and the Adds are the ligeslations of the prophet and his friends and we must obey them as a Salaf Asaleh.
There is no stoning for adultery in Quran, did God forget to tell the prophet that before Quran was put in written form? Did God send him memo's and 'PS's' after Quran was 'complete'?
there is no names of human in Quran, I think Quran must tell you how to pee.
You still assume that all these people are good people and that when Allah said he has sent enemies to EVERY prophet that they are not among these people, illogical.
Yes, God sent ennemies, but do you know what kind of ennemies?
You are still forgetting the 200 year gap between Muhammeds death and Bukharis birth, add on a few more years for bukhari to grow a bit as I doubt he started collecting and interviewing from his mothers breast.
You're still forgetting that God sent to every nation good people to make people remember his religion. in every couples of years God sent a man to make his religion alive again.
" "
Sorry, well brainwashed, learnt and recited but if you DO actually use your mind and think and reflect you will see it makes no sense. No wonder you are told not to use your own mind in religious matters by the enemies of God's Book
I use your mind more than what you think, so I'll let you assuming the opposite because from what you think about me, I'm strong.
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rotfl rotfl rotfl
sorry, will reply later, gotta 'do lunch' but thanks for the humour ;DAs laughter increases, respect decreases.
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"Suppositions" friends, cannot become the basis for any serious discussions on the topics of Quran, Rasool and His commandments.
The questions arise from your "One Question for Quranists" are -- Why do you indulge in this kind of useless verbiage?
- Do you think this is the only way to judge people's loyalties towards Rasool?
- Why would the Rasool ask me to do something which is un-Quranic?
- Why wouldn't one do as asked to do by the Rasool himself?
- It is the command of a divine ruler with a divine mandate to establish Kingdom of God. Why wouldn't every Muslim obey?
- Are you being asked to obey or to give your opinion about the right or wrong of a command?
- It is not a consultation, but a direct command by your Ruler. Do you have justification to argue?
- Where and why Hadith comes in the picture here? Hadith was concocted and compiled in 2nd/3rd century AH? By enemies of Islam!
God bless you.
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peace
An interesting text regarding Abu Huraira, the memory of the companions, and some of the misogynistic ahadeeth that have been brought up here.
Since the whole earth is a mosque, aligning woman with dogs and asses, as does the Hadith of Abu Hurayra, and labeling her a disturbance, amounts to saying that there is a fundamental contradiction between her essence and that of the divine. By lumping her in with two familiar animals the author of the Hadith inevitably makes her a being who belongs to the animal kingdom.
It is enough for a woman to appear in the field of vision for contact with the qibla -- that is, the divine -- to be disturbed. Like the dog and the ass, she destroys the symbolic relation with the divine by her presence. One has to interrupt one's prayer and begin again.
Arab civilization being a civilization of the written word, the only point of view we have on this question is that of Abu Hurayra. According to Ibn Marzug, when somone invoked in front of 'A'isha the Hadith that said that the three causes of interruption of prayer were dogs, asses, and women, she answered them "You compare us now to asses and dogs. In the name of God, I have seen the Prophet saying his prayers while I was there, lying on the bed between him and the qibla. And in order not to disturb him, I didn't move." The believers used to come to 'A'isha for verification of what they had heard, confident of her judgement, not only because of her closeness to the the Prophet, but because of her own abilities
I have seen groups of the most eminent companions of the Prophet ask her questions concerning the fara'id (the daily duties of the Muslim, the rituals etc.), and Ibn 'Ata said "'A'isha was, among all the people, the one who had the most knowledge of fiqh, the one who was the most educated and, compared to those who surrounded her, the one whose judgement was the best."
Despite her words of caution, the influence of Abu Hurayra has nevertheless infiltrated the most prestigious religious texts, among them the Sahih of al-Bukhari, who apparently did not always feel obliged to insert the corrections provided by 'A'isha. The subject of many of these Hadith is the "polluting" essence of femaleness.
To understand the importance for Islam of that aspect of femaleness, evoking disturbance and sullying, we would do well to look at the personality of Abu Hurayra, who, as it were, gave it legal force. Without wanting to play the role of psychoanalytical detective, I can say that the fate of Abu Hurayra and his ambivalence toward women are wrapped up in the story of his name.
Abu Hurayra, meaning literally "Father of the Little Female Cat," had previously been called "Servant of the Sun" ('Abd al-Shams). The Prophet decided to change that name, which had a strong sense of idolatry about it. "Servant of the Sun" was originally from Yemen, that part of Arabia where not only the sun, a female star in Arabic, was worshipped, but where women also ruled in public and private life. Yemen was the land of the Queen of Sheba, Balqis, that queen who fascinated King Solomon, who ruled over a happy kingdom, and who put her mark on Arab memory, since she appears in the Koran
- ... (the hoopoe) said I have found (a thing) that thou apprehendest not, and I come unto thee from Sheba with sure tidings.
- Lo! I found a woman ruling over them, and she hath been given (abundance) of all things, and hers is a mighty throne.
- I found her and her people worshipping the sun instead of Allah ... .
Abu Hurayra came from the Yemeni tribe of the Daws. At the age of 30 the man named Servant of the Sun was converted to Islam. The Prophet gave him the name 'Abd Allah (Servant of Allah) and nicknamed him Abu Hurayra (Father of the Little Female Cat) because he used to walk around with a little female cat that he adored.
But Abu Hurayra was not happy with his nickname, for he did not like the trace of femininity in it "Abu Hurayra said 'Don't call me Abu Hurayra. The Prophet nicknamed me Abu Hirr (Father of the Male Cat), and the male is better than the female.'"
He had another reason to feel sensitive about this subject of femininity -- he did not have a very masculine job. In a Medina that was in a state of full-blown economic development, where the Medinese, especially the Jews, made an art of agriculture, and the immigrant Meccans continued their commercial activities and managed to combine them with military expeditions, Abu Hurayra preferred, according to his own comments, to be in the company of the Prophet. He served him and sometimes "helped out in the women's apartments." This fact might clear up the mystery about his hatred of women, and also of female cats, the two seeming to be strangely linked in his mind.
He had such a fixation about female cats and women that he recalled that the Prophet had prounounced a Hadith concerning the two creatures -- and in which the female cat comes off much better than the woman. But 'A'isha contradicted him, a Companion recounted
We were with 'A'isha, and Abu Hurayra was with us.
'A'isha said to him
"Father of the Little Cat, is it you who said that you heard the Prophet declare that a woman went to hell because she starved a little female cat and didn't give it anything to drink?"
"I did hear the Prophet say that," responded Father of the Little Cat.
"A believer is too valuable in the eyes of God," retorted 'A'isha, "for Him to torture that person because of a cat ... Father of Little Cat, the next time you undertake to repeat the words of the Prophet, watch out what you recount."It is not surprising that Abu Hurayra attacked 'A'isha in return for that. She might be "The Mother of the Believers" and "The Lover of the Lover of God," but she contradicted him too often. One day he lost patience and defended himself against an attack by 'A'isha. When she said to him, "Abu Hurayra, you relate Hadith that you never heard'" he replied sharply, "Oh Mother, all I did was collect Hadith, while you were too busy with kohl and your mirror."
One of the constant themes of conflict in Islam from the very beginning is what to do about menstrual periods and the sex act. Are periods the source of sullying? 'A'isha and the other wives of the Prophet never lost any opportunity to insist that the Prophet did not have the phobic attitude of pre-Islamic Arabia on the subject. Did the Prophet purify himself after making love during the holy month of Ramadan? "I heard Abu Hurayra recount that he whom the dawn finds sullied (janaban, referring to sullying by the sex act) may not fast." Upon hearing this new law decreed by Abu Hurayra, the Companions hastened to the wives of the Prophet to reassure themselves about it "They posed the questions to Umm Salama and 'A'isha ... They responded 'The Prophet used to spend the night janaban without making any ritual of purification, and in the morning he fasted.'" The Compainons, greatly perplexed, returned to Abu Hurayra
"Ah, so. They said that?" he responded.
"Yes, they said that," repeated the Companions, feeling more and more troubled, because Ramadan is one of the five pillars of Islam. Abu Hurayra then confessed, under pressure, that he had not heard it directly from the Prophet, but from someone else. He reconsidered what he had said, and later it was learned that just before his death he completely retracted his words.Abu Hurayra was not the only one to report Hadith about the purification ritual, and this was a real bone of contention between 'A'isha and the Companions. "Ibn 'Umar ordered women who were doing the purification ritual to undo their braids (before touching their hair with wet hands)." 'A'isha is supposed to have responded when someone reported to her the teaching that he was propounding "That's strange ... Why, when he was about it, didn't he order them to shave their heads? When I used to wash myself with the Prophet, we purified ourselves with the same bucket of water. I passed my wet hand over my braids three times, and I never undid them!"
'A'isha insisted on these corrections because she was conscious of the implications of what was being said. Pre-Islamic Arabia regarded sexuality, and the menstruating woman in particular, as a source of pollution, as a pole of negative forces. This theory about pollution expressed a vision of femaleness that was conveyed through a whole system of superstitions and beliefs that Muhammad wanted to condemn. He saw it as, on the one hand, the essence of their jahiliyya (the era of ignorance) and, on the other hand, the essence of the beliefs of the Jewish community of Medina.
The fuqaha who took part in the debate on the subject of pollution, recorded at length in their religious literature, came down on the side of 'A'isha. Their argument was that her version of the Hadith seemed to agree more with the attitude of the Prophet, who tried by all means to "struggle" against superstition in all its forms."
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One can read among al-Bukhari's "authentic" Hadith the following one "Three things bring bad luck house, woman, and horse." Al-Bukhari did not include other versions of this Hadith, although the rule was to give one or more contradictory versions in order to show the readers conflicting points of view, and thus to permit them to be sufficiently well informed to decide for themselves about practices that were the subject of dispute.
However, there is no trace in al-Bukhari of 'A'isha's refutation of this Hadith
They told 'A'isha that Abu Hurayra was asserting that the Messenger of God said "Three things bring bad luck house, woman, and horse." 'A'isha responded "Abu Hurayra learned his lesson very badly. He came into our house when the Prophet was in the middle of a sentence. He only heard the end of it. What the prophet said was 'May Allah refute the Jews; they say three things bring bad luck house, woman, and horse.'"
Not only did al-Bukhari not include this correction, but he treated the Hadith as if there was no question about it. He cited it three times, each time with a different transmission chain. This procedure generally strengthens a Hadith and gives the impression of consensus concerning it.
No mention was made of the dispute between 'A'isha and Abu Hurayra on this subject. Worse yet, al-Bukhari followed this misogynistic Hadith with another along the same lines which reflected the same version of femaleness as a pole of destruction and ill luck "The Prophet said 'I do not leave after me any cause of trouble more fatal to man than women.'
The source of this Hadith is 'Abdallah Ibn 'Umar (the son of 'Umar Ibn al-Khattab, the second caliph), who was known for his rare asceticism and for nights interrupted by prayers and purifications. 'Abdallah was a source very highly valued by Bukhari. He was the author of another famous Hadith, in which he throws women into hell
"'Abdallah Ibn 'Umar said "The Prophet said "I took a look at paradise, and I noted that the majority of the people there were poor people. I took a look at hell, and I noted that there, women were the majority.'"
What conclusion must one draw from this? That even the authentic Hadith must be vigilantly examined with a magnifying glass? That is our right, Malik Ibn Anas tells us. Al-Bukhari, like all the fuqaha, began his work of collecting by asking for Allah's help and acknowledging that only He is infallible.
It is our tradition to question everything and everybody, especially the fuqaha and imams. And it is more than ever necessary for us to disinter our true tradition from the centuries of oblivion that have managed to obscure it. But we must also guard against falling into generalizations and saying that all the imams were and are misogynistic. That is not true today and was not true yesterday. The example of this is Imam Zarkashi, who, luckily for us, recorded in writing all of 'A'isha's objections.
Imam Zarkashi was of Turkish origin, but born in Egypt in the middle of the fourteenth century (actually in year 745 of the Hejira). Like all the scholars of this time, he traveled throughout the Muslim world in search of knowledge. He specialized in religious knowledge and left behind no less than 30 compendiums. Many of these are lost to modern researchers, and we know only their titles. Among those that have come down to us is a book devoted to 'A'isha's contribution to Islam, her contribution as a source of religious knowledge. The book begins as follows
'A'isha is the Mother of the Believers. ... She is the lover of the Messenger of God. ... She lived with him for eight years and five months; she was 18 years old at the time of the death of the Prophet. ... She lived to be 65 years old. ... We are indebted to her for 1.210 Hadith.
And he explains
This book is devoted to her partiuclar contribution in this field, especially the points on which she disagreed with others, the points to which she supplied added information, the points on which she was in complete disagreement with the religious scholars of her time. ... I have entitled this book Collection of 'A'isha's Corrections to the Statements of the Companions (Al-'irada fi ma istadrakathu 'A'isha 'ala al-sahaba).
This book remained in manuscript form until 1939. Al-Afghani discovered it while doing research for his biography of 'A'isha in the Al-Dahiriya Library of Damascus. Why did Imam Zarkashi, one of the greatest scholars of the Shafi'i school of his time, undertake his work on 'A'isha? A work that, by all accounts, he must have considered extremely important, since he dedicated his book to the Judge of Judges (qadi al-qudat) -- the equivalent of the Minister of Justice today, the supreme authority in religious matters in a Muslim city. Because, he says, "the Prophet recognized 'A'isha's importance to such an extent that he said 'Draw a part of your religion from little al-humayra.'"
One of the favorite pet names for 'A'isha was al-humayra, referring to her very white skin made radiant by a light sunburn, something rather rare in the Hijaz, the northern part of Arabia.
'A'isha disputed many of Abu Hurayra's Hadith and declared to whoever wanted to hear it "He is not a good listener, and he is asked a question, he gives wrong answers."
'A'isha could take her liberty of criticizing him because she had an excellent memory "I never saw anyone who had so much knowledge about religion, poetry, and medicine as 'A'isha."
Abu Hurayra knew how to rile her. "But who has heard about that from Abu al-Qasim (the Prophet's surname)?" she exclaimed when someone recounted to her another of Abu Hurayra's traditions, this time describing what the Prophet did after making love.
It is not wasted effort to us to tarry over the personality of Abu Hurayra, the author of Hadith that saturate the daily life of every modern Muslim woman. He has been the source of an enormous amount of commentary in the religious literature. But he was and still is the object of controversy, and there is far from being unanimity on him as a reliable source.
The most recent book about him, jointly published by a Lebanese and an Iraqi firm, is a tribute written by one of his admirers who devotes no less than 500 pages to defending him. 'Abd al-Mun'im Salih al-'Ali gave his book a rather eloquent title In Defense of Abu Hurayra. It was obviously a success since a new edition was published in 1983.
The author begins by asserting that "the Zionists and their allies and supporters have found another weapon against Islam; it is to introduce doubt about the narrators of traditions ... and especially about those who were the source of many Hadith."
This gives an idea of the controversy surrounding Abu Hurayra. What is certain is that Abu Hurayra, long before Zionism, was attacked by Companions of his own generation. He had a very dubious reputation from the beginning, and al-Buhkari was aware of it, since he reports that "people said that Abu Hurayra recounts too many Hadith."
'Abd al-Mun'im, to his credit, cites all those incidents in which he was strongly challenged, including by those other than 'A'isha. He assures us that 'Umar Ibn al-Khattab, the second orthodox caliph, did not say that "the worst liar among the muhaddithun (narrators of Hadith) is Abu Hurayra." He disputes the claim that 'Umar threatened to exile him, to send him back to his native Yemen, if he continued to recount Hadith.
'Umar, who enjoyed an unparalleled influence on the Prophet and the Muslim community of yesterday (and still does today) because of his prestige as a man of politics, his boldness in military matters, his strong personality, and his horror of lying, avoided recounting Hadith. He was terrified at the idea of not being accurate. For that reason, 'Umar was one of those Companions who preferred to rely on their own judgement rather than trust their memory, which they considered dangerously fallible.
He was very irritated by the facile manner in which Abu Hurayra reeled off Hadith "'Umar al-Khattab," we can read in al-'Asqalani's biography of him, "is supposed to have remarked as follows about Abu Hurayra 'We have many things to say, but we are afraid to say them, and that man there has no restraint.'"
For the pious Companion the fallibility of memory was an occasion for meditating on the fragility of existence in the face of the flowing river of time, which steals not only youth, but especially memory. 'Umar Ibn Hasin, another Companion who was conscious of the treacherousness of memory, said
If I wanted to, I could recite traditions of the Prophet for two days without stopping. What keeps me from doing it is that I have seen some of the Companions of the Messenger of God who heard exactly what I myself heard, who saw what I saw, and those men recounted Hadith. Those traditions are not exactly what we heard. And I am afraid of hallucinating, as they hallucinate.
The Arabic word is yushbah, literally "to hallucinate," that is, to see a reality that does not exist, but that has the appearanc of reality.
Abu Hurayra, on the contrary, for the three years that he spent in the company of the Prophet, would accomplish the tour de force of recalling 5.300 Hadith. Al-Bukhari listed 800 experts who cited him as their source. Here is how Abu Hurayra explains his excellent memory "I said to the Prophet 'I listen attentively, I take in many of your ideas, but I forget many.'"
Then, the Prophet is supposed to have told him to spread out his cloak while he was speaking to him, and afterwards to pick it up at the end of the session. "And this is the reason that I no longer forgot anything."
Telling the story of the cloak was not the best way to be convincing in a religion like Islam, which has a horror of mysteries of all sorts, where Muhammad resisted the pressure of his contemporaries to perform miracles and magical acts, and where the fuqaha became well versed from very early on in an exaggerated pragmatism.
Abu Hurayra also gave another explanation that was a bit more realistic than the first. The other Companions, he said, put their energy into their business matters and spent their time in the bazaars drawing up contracts and increasing their fortunes, while he had nothing else to do but follow the Prophet everywhere.
'Umar Ibn al-Khattab, who was well known for his physical vigor and who awoke the city every day to say the dawn prayer, disliked lazy people who loafed around without any definite occupation. He summoned Abu Hurayra on one occasion to offer him a job. To his great surprise, Abu Hurayra declined the offer. 'Umar, who did not consider such things a joking matter, said to him
"You refuse to work? Better people than you have begged for work."
"Who are those people who are better than me?" inquired Abu Hurayra.
"Joseph, the son of Jacob, for example'" said 'Umar to put an end to a conversation that was getting out of hand.
"He," said Abu Hurayra flippantly, "was a prophet, the son of a prophet, and I am Abu Hurayra, son of Umayma (his mother)."With this anecdote we come back to our point of departure, the relationship of "Father of the Little Female Cat" to femaleness and to the very mysterious and dangerous link between the sacred and women.
All the monotheistic religions are shot through by the conflict between the divine and the feminine, bun none more so than Islam, which has opted for the occultation of the feminine, at least symbolically, by trying to veil it, to hide it, to mask it. Islam as sexual practice unfolds with a very special theatricality since it is acted out in a scene where the hijab (veil) occupies a central position.
This almost phobic attitude toward women is all the more surprising since we have seen that the Prophet has encouraged his adherents to renounce it as representative of the jahiliyya and its superstitions. This leads me to ask Is is possible that Islam's message had only a limited and superficial effect on deepy superstitious seventh-century Arbas who failed to integrate its novel approaches to the world and to women? Is it possible that the hijab, the attempt to veil women, that is claimed today to be basic to Muslim identity, is nothing but the expression of the persistence of the pre-Islamic mentality, the jahiliyya mentality that Islam was supposed to annihilate?
(Fatima Mernissi The Veil and the Male Elite, pps 69-81, footnotes / references omitted for readabilty)
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- Why do you indulge in this kind of useless verbiage?
it is not useless verbiage and I'm not indulging in anything, a question came to my mind and I did ask it, you can answer if you want, you can not answer if you don't want, vice versa.
- Do you think this is the only way to judge people's loyalties towards Rasool?
I'm not judging people's loyalties towards Rassool, the Quranists are by the way out of any loyalties and you're one of them, when we said Rasool, we always write side by this word "Salla laho Alayhe wa salam". so stop assuming that I'm judging between is just a question .
- Why would the Rasool ask me to do something which is un-Quranic?
I didn't say it's not Quranic, I said not existing in Quran that doesn't mean that it is not Qutanic . like prayers for example (God didn't mention the number of Rak'ah , so the prophet peace be upon him mentioned it ) and the information that the prophet told us is not existing in Quran but the root of it is Quranic ..so your question is out of the subject, and don't put words in my mouth.
- Why wouldn't one do as asked to do by the Rasool himself?
Ask the Quranists.
- It is the command of a divine ruler with a divine mandate to establish Kingdom of God. Why wouldn't every Muslim obey?
ask the Quranists . I do obey but Quranists said that they will think about what the prophet said.
- Are you being asked to obey or to give your opinion about the right or wrong of a command?
I'm asked to obey and not give my opinion of a command from the prophet peace be upon him. ask the Quranits who they said that they have the right to give their opinions and they can disobey the commands of the prophet.
- It is not a consultation, but a direct command by your Ruler. Do you have justification to argue?
NO, ask the Quranists .
- Where and why Hadith comes in the picture here? Hadith was concocted and compiled in 2nd/3rd century AH? By enemies of Islam!
Ask Quranists . I 'm a follower of hadith ..I think you have got the wrong information about me. next time read the posts and the thread then know the person who you will shot him.
God bless you.
thanks .you too /
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peace
An interesting text regarding Abu Huraira, the memory of the companions, and some of the misogynistic ahadeeth that have been brought up here.they have finished with Bukhari and now they want to attack the Sahabi Abu Horaira , what a crap, you know that the story of Aisha may God be pleased with her with Abu Horaira when she said to him that you have said a lot of Ahadith about the prophet, and he gave her a good answer that she was interested in something else while he was interested in taking knowledge from the prophet. and then Aisha may God be pleased with her have agreed with him, I think they didn't mention this part.
As I see from this post that the real aim is showing the battle between man and woman ( a message behind words) .
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they have finished with Bukhari and now they want to attack the Sahabi Abu Horaira ,
Who is "they"?
what a crap, you know that the story of Aisha may God be pleased with her with Abu Horaira when she said to him that you have said a lot of Ahadith about the prophet, and he gave her a good answer that she was interested in something else while he was interested in taking knowledge from the prophet. and then Aisha may God be pleased with her have agreed with him, I think they didn't mention this part. ,
This incident is mentioned in the text above. Obviously you have not read all of it.
And your attempt to insult Ayisha ... well, no comment. -\
As I see from this post that the real aim is showing the battle between man and woman ( a message behind words) .
Erm ... no. It seems you misunderstood. You need to learn to read a text completely and make sure you understand it properly before jumping to conclusions.
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Who is "they"?
they can't argue with us in Quran but they have found a good idea, is ripping them from inside(ripping the community of Islam) by attacking it from inside, let's attack the the other books (Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim) where Muslims got their second ligeslations . who do you think "they" ?
This incident is mentioned in the text above. Obviously you have not read all of it.
I read it, stop assuming that I didn't, it mentioned the answer of Abu Horaira but it is obvious that I didn't mention what was the answer of Aisha after his saying. so they want to hide this part , she said to him "Yes" because he was right.
Erm ... no. It seems you misunderstood. You need to learn to read a text completely and make sure you understand it properly before jumping to conclusions.
No, I didn't, so stop again assuming that I misunderstood, the subject is too easy to understand, the hidden message is that Arabs hate women or worst Muslims hate women. why this writer didn't mention the meeting between Omar and Abu Horaira, they talked about the same subject ?
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they can't argue with us in Quran but they have found a good idea, is ripping them from inside(ripping the community of Islam) by attacking it from inside, let's attack the the other books (Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim) where Muslims got their second ligeslations . who do you think "they" ?
I asked you to explain who you are referring to. Why don't you just answer the question?
I read it, stop assuming that I didn't, it mentioned the answer of Abu Horaira but it is obvious that I didn't mention what was the answer of Aisha after his saying. so they want to hide this part , she said to him "Yes" because he was right.
He tried to discredit Ayisha by doubting her truthfulness, memory and honesty and suggesting that she was occupied with trivial things (such as beautifying herself) instead of paying attention to what the prophet said. And you agree with him -- astaghfirullah!
No, I didn't, so stop again assuming that I misunderstood, the subject is too easy to understand, the hidden message is that Arabs hate women or worst Muslims hate women. why this writer didn't mention the meeting between Omar and Abu Horaira, they talked about the same subject ?
The Arabs did hate women, no doubt about it. This is one thing the prophet tried to change, and that's what this excerpt was about.
As for "why did the writer not mention this or that incident" -- how do you know she didn't? Have you read the whole book?
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I asked you to explain who you are referring to. Why don't you just answer the question?
I like puzzles lol .."they" refer to the ennemies of Islam (jewish, christians, just name it).
He tried to discredit Ayisha by doubting her truthfulness, memory and honesty and suggesting that she was occupied with trivial things (such as beautifying herself) instead of paying attention to what the prophet said. And you agree with him -- astaghfirullah!
No, his aim wasn't about disrespecting her, his real aim was that she wasn't with him all the time like he does.
The Arabs did hate women, no doubt about it. This is one thing the prophet tried to change, and that's what this excerpt was about.
Not all of them, some of them ...so don't judge the whole community by a mistake of some bunch from them.
As for "why did the writer not mention this or that incident" -- how do you know she didn't? Have you read the whole book?
You didn't mention it on the Board so I thought that she didn't mention it. and how do you know that she did ?
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I like puzzles lol .."they" refer to the ennemies of Islam (jewish, christians, just name it).
Firstly, the author of the book is Muslim.
Secondly, Jews and Christians are not by default enemies of Islam.
You didn't mention it on the Board so I thought that she didn't mention it. and how do you know that she did ?
The book has more than 200 pages, you don't expect me to type up all of it and post it here, no? nope
How do I know? I've read the book plus the appendices which provide all sources for things that have been quoted in the text.