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  4. off topic from Re: The 5 stages of a Muslim turning Quran Aloner

off topic from Re: The 5 stages of a Muslim turning Quran Aloner

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    Thereformer1
    wrote on last edited by
    #21

    o
    Of course questioning is allowed, in fact it is a must. If you don't question things, you become a robot who just believes whatever any authority is telling him. The Qur'an repeatedly reminds us not to do that.

    Look, I said questions are allowed but just in Akida. do you know what I mean by Akida?

    I am not looking for a war with anyone, and I reject your use of that sort of vocabulary.

    No, you did >> your post was a flaming of a war " insulting the beliefs of others."

    My post is an insult? To whom? I was simply stating a fact.

    Yes, it was and insult to Jama'a "mocking about Jama'a" . what fact ?

    I'm an avid reader of fatawa, and I noticed that the less arguments (either from Qur'an or ahadeeth) the scholars can bring, the more they resort to expressions like "by the consensus of the scholars" / "all scholars ananimously agree on that" etc. It's a fact anyone can check for themselves.
    peace

    the fatwa came from one person and the others must study it to agree, and when they agreed, the fatwa is valid according to Quran and Sunnah.

    so what fact are you talking about?

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      Thereformer1
      wrote on last edited by
      #22

      Mansukh=abrogated. Nasikh = abrogator. Motashabih = similar (but some say 'allegorical). Doesn't matter though because NONE of these things have agreement. You guys don't even know which is which.

      I didn't say translate to me the words in english(I'm not english) , I said do you know their meanings ? and do you know which is which?

      Some of your mufassiroon say ayat as-saif (9/5) abrogates over A HUNDRED other ayat. It's all a big game to you guys.

      You know that you have a problem in what you said, you don't understand what you said.

      and if you can't do that, KILL those who try to leave.

      hummm, I didn't understand what you do you mean by this sentence ...it's yuck

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        abdalquran
        wrote on last edited by
        #23

        I didn't say translate to me the words in english(I'm not english) , I said do you know their meanings ? and do you know which is which?

        Sure, a nasikh is an ayah which abrogates or cancels out a mansukh. Like some people say 3/85 cancels out 2/62.

        You know that you have a problem in what you said, you don't understand what you said.

        It means there's an ayah, 9/5 which abrogates or cancels out A HUNDRED other ayat.

        hummm, I didn't understand what you do you mean by this sentence ...it's yuck

        What I mean is, when sunnism can't keep u on the right path and u want to leave, they'll kill you. (man badalla deenahu faqtalahu)

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          zulu12
          wrote on last edited by
          #24

          Dear transformer1

          I don't think you realise, but most of the Arabic understandings you are asking for and the translations that are being supplied by the PM's, are using Lane's Lexicon Dictionary authored by Edward William Lane. The British dude who went to Egypt in 1825 for a few years, dressed as a Turk in order to mingle in and took notes on everything he saw and heard. In other word's the Hadith of Lane which these PM's can call Sahih Al Lane. The dude who didn't even complete his dictionary. Check for yourself

          http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_William_Lane

          This is their understanding of the Quran. He is the translator for many of their views. They reject all Hadiths, but quote Edward William Lane? I hope you get the picture by now.

          Peace

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            Thereformer1
            wrote on last edited by
            #25

            Sure, a nasikh is an ayah which abrogates or cancels out a mansukh. Like some people say 3/85 cancels out 2/62.

            Yes, you're right, in fact the aya doesn't cancels the other, it's just change what was knwon in the aya by another subject better than the known.

            so you don't believe in this situation or what ???? .

            It means there's an ayah, 9/5 which abrogates or cancels out A HUNDRED other ayat.

            see above , there is no cancel , it's just change what was knwon by another one better than the known. like for example the prophet said to the people don't visit the tombs, then after a few years he changes "abrogates" what he said by another one is visit the tombs because you" talking to the same people" will remember the day of judgement. look careful in the example .

            What I mean is, when sunnism can't keep u on the right path and u want to leave, they'll kill you. (man badalla deenahu faqtalahu)

            No, wrong ..sunni people don't kill anyone out of sunnism, the term kill is for the Reda "" who leaves Islam all of it.

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              Thereformer1
              wrote on last edited by
              #26

              Dear transformer1

              Lol . I'm thereformer1 anyways Salam Zulu.

              I don't think you realise, but most of the Arabic understandings you are asking for and the translations that are being supplied by the PM's, are using Lane's Lexicon Dictionary authored by Edward William Lane. The British dude who went to Egypt in 1825 for a few years, dressed as a Turk in order to mingle in and took notes on everything he saw and heard. In other word's the Hadith of Lane which these PM's can call Sahih Al Lane. The dude who didn't even complete his dictionary. Check for yourself

              Yes, you're right .

              But I have one problem in this post " You said ( most of the Arabic understandings you are asking ....PM's)" I've never check any PM's and the translation here in this forum of Qur'an is wrong and I've never asked about any Arabic understandings >>>> I'm from Arabs and Arabic running in my vains, I even make poems in Classic Arabic

              This is their understanding of the Quran. He is the translator for many of their views. They reject all Hadiths, but quote Edward William Lane? I hope you get the picture by now.
              Peace

              Yes, I know . and I'm here to change this picture if God willing.

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                abdalquran
                wrote on last edited by
                #27

                Yes, you're right, in fact the aya doesn't cancels the other, it's just change what was knwon in the aya by another subject better than the known.
                so you don't believe in this situation or what ???? .

                100% no. In fact i think it's kufr (but it doesnt make u a kafir, the act itself is kufr).

                see above , there is no cancel , it's just change what was knwon by another one better than the known. like for example the prophet said to the people don't visit the tombs, then after a few years he changes "abrogates" what he said by another one is visit the tombs because you" talking to the same people" will remember the day of judgement. look careful in the example .

                However you call it, a hundred ayat of Quran become ineffective (you cant take ahkaam from them anymore) because of this. So Allah's laws become cancelled. Sure we still recite the ayat but what's the point. We cant follow it anymore.

                No, wrong ..sunni people don't kill anyone out of sunnism, the term kill is for the Reda "" who leaves Islam all of it.

                Bro, sunnism for you IS islam! I don?t know if you?re a wahabi or what, but wahabis even call the shia kafirs. So leaving sunnism is leaving islam!

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                  abdalquran
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #28

                  This is their understanding of the Quran. He is the translator for many of their views. They reject all Hadiths, but quote Edward William Lane? I hope you get the picture by now.

                  I dont even use Lane's. I use Manan's dictionary and ultimately see if Quran itself approves of it through context. Like 'salat', no dictionary in the world will make 'salat' = 'prayer'.

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                    Leyna
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #29

                    Look, I said questions are allowed but just in Akida. do you know what I mean by Akida?

                    Look, I know that's what you said, and I know what Aqida means. My point is that questions are always allowed.

                    No, you did >> your post was a flaming of a war " insulting the beliefs of others."

                    Yes, it was and insult to Jama'a "mocking about Jama'a" .

                    I'm sorry if you felt I insulted your beliefs. You have obviously been brought up to think that authorities (i.e. scholars, teachers, parents etc.) should never be questioned. My approach is different.

                    Btw., weren't you the one who just said a few days ago that it is okay to insult someone who disagrees with you? A bit contradictory, no? -*

                    the fatwa came from one person and the others must study it to agree, and when they agreed, the fatwa is valid according to Quran and Sunnah.

                    I don't understand what this has to do with my posting.

                    I hope you are being aware of the fact that there is no central authority in Islam, unlike in some other religions. Any believer can communicate directly with God without the interference of another human being. A fatwa is just a recommendation, there is no obligation to follow it.

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                      zulu12
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #30

                      Dear thereformer1

                      Apologies for the typo error. I honestly wasn't implying you were Optimus Prime or Megatron. It really was a typo error.

                      What I meant regarding the Arabic understanding is that Lane's Lexicon is used to give you an answer for your query. Whether the respondent gives an understanding or translation, they are using Lane's in the majority of cases. The majority of them do not know Arabic, but they want to teach you Arabic, even though your mother tongue is Arabic.

                      Wa'Salaam

                      Peace

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                        abdalquran
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #31

                        The majority of them do not know Arabic, but they want to teach you Arabic, even though your mother tongue is Arabic.

                        The arabic of the quran has very little to do with sunni-influenced fusha.

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                          zulu12
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #32

                          Dear abdalquran

                          Ah yes. So the Quran that was revealed to Arabs in Arabic was not really Arabic because they didn't speak Arabic because in reality they are a secret sect known as Sunnis who only speak Sunnibic?

                          Dude, all I can say is................. stay off the pipe!

                          Peace

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                            abdalquran
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #33

                            Oh they spoke Arabic but they changed MANY meanings of the words. That's why sunnis think 'zakat' is charity when the Quran uses the phrase 'infaq fee sabilillah'

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                              Thereformer1
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #34

                              Look, I know that's what you said, and I know what Aqida means. My point is that questions are always allowed.

                              Yes, questions are allowed "the reasonable questions" not like "is salat means salat ? " is that a question ??

                              I'm sorry if you felt I insulted your beliefs. You have obviously been brought up to think that authorities (i.e. scholars, teachers, parents etc.) should never be questioned. My approach is different.

                              Yes, you're right we should ask them, I was thinking that you're talking about questionning God or the ligeslations in Quran or questioning Quran itself, sorry I've misunderstood to whom you will adress your questions?

                              Btw., weren't you the one who just said a few days ago that it is okay to insult someone who disagrees with you? A bit contradictory, no? -*

                              did I say that ? where ?

                              A fatwa is just a recommendation, there is no obligation to follow it.

                              Yes, I know / I didn't say the opposite.

                              P.S I've just explained to you "fatwa".

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                                Thereformer1
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #35

                                Dear thereformer1
                                Apologies for the typo error. I honestly wasn't implying you were Optimus Prime or Megatron. It really was a typo error.

                                Salam Zulu, it's ok don't bother yourself.

                                ah by the way I like Megatron yay

                                What I meant regarding the Arabic understanding is that Lane's Lexicon is used to give you an answer for your query. Whether the respondent gives an understanding or translation, they are using Lane's in the majority of cases. The majority of them do not know Arabic, but they want to teach you Arabic, even though your mother tongue is Arabic.
                                Wa'Salaam
                                Peace

                                hahaha , Yes you're right . I've said the same thing to a guy here who tried to explain to me the words and I have pointed out all his mistakes in arabic .

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                                  Thereformer1
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #36

                                  Oh they spoke Arabic but they changed MANY meanings of the words. That's why sunnis think 'zakat' is charity when the Quran uses the phrase 'infaq fee sabilillah'

                                  hahah, what they will change ? are you crazy ? as an Arabic, theycan't change the meanings, it's impossible totally, you know why ? because arabic has a specific codes in our hearts, so for example as you stated in your post zakat which is not charity in english . charity in english is Sadaqa . Zakat is a unique word in arabic I can't find any word in english even a sentence to describe to you what zakat means, I know its meanings and I will try to simplify it in a paragragh

                                  zakat from the provinience verb zakaa which means someone/something flattered a person, and when you say zakat it means that you have some money and this money must be flattered from you by taking some of it according to a calculation giving you the sum of money that you'll give to a person "like flatter the money" but in different way this time, because the term flatter is not literally" . and zakat also mean purification.

                                  P.S there is more than 20 other meanings of Zakat, their meanings differ from sentence to another.

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                                    zulu12
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #37

                                    Dear abdalquran

                                    One of the beauties and miracles of the Quran is that it uses different words and sentences to describe the same thing at different intervals throughout the whole period of revelation without one error.

                                    So the non muslims who also translated the Quran using the same definitions were also Sunnis?

                                    Dude, like I said............. stay off the pipe.

                                    Peace

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                                      Ayisha
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #38

                                      what I stated in my post is not hadith, it is a verse translated (in english) by many different translators.

                                      duh! I know that, thats why I was saying that 'you' STILL have to look for answers in hadith! or is it that you think that verse means dont ask about Quran verses? )

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                                        Ariji
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #39

                                        Look, I said questions are allowed but just in Akida. do you know what I mean by Akida?

                                        What about this question;

                                        "What is Akida?" muscle

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                                          abdalquran
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #40

                                          hahah, what they will change ? are you crazy ? as an Arabic, theycan't change the meanings, it's impossible totally, you know why ? because arabic has a specific codes in our hearts..

                                          LOL, specific code???? Look at what you say below

                                          P.S there is more than 20 other meanings of Zakat, their meanings differ from sentence to another.

                                          So there's no specific code then, thank you for admitting this.

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