Asalamalaikum from Canada
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Salaam George,
I understand that you may hold grudges against traditional Islam, but may I advise that you use humble and modest words when you express your opinions? The Qur'an advises that we speak in gentle words whenever we address everyone (even the disbelievers), and even if we are engaged in an argument, we are commanded to reply with equal, and if not, better terms.
We may be frustrated with some people who "do not see it the way we do", but that is the test that we have to face. We have to exercise patience and show that we can walk with humility.
I am not defending Bukhari or other muhadithin, but I want to say that we currently view them as 'the antagonists'. However, we did not truly know what their intentions were in collecting hadiths. They might do it for political reasons or corrupting Islam, but they might actually be genuine in their desire to preserve the sayings and the deeds of the Prophet. Only God knows. It's like... we are doing what we believe to preserve the true Islam, but we are currently seen as the 'antagonists' and enemies of Islam by others. What would you feel if people address you with derogatory remarks?
Sorry if I offend you in anyway. But it disheartens me when I see anyone speak harshly, especially when they claim to uphold a System that is basically about establishing peace on Earth. We represent what we believe, through our actions and words.
Salaam.
I agree completely. Not to antagonize you or anything George, but humans are born weak and most people will not listen to you if you insult them or speak to them in a harsh manner no matter how much truth is in what you are speaking.
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I agree completely. Not to antagonize you or anything George, but humans are born weak and most people will not listen to you if you insult them or speak to them in a harsh manner no matter how much truth is in what you are speaking.
Selam AK85
I only speak to those harshly who deserve it and even if I tell the truth in a less harsh manner as I have done many times before, if the person does not want to accept the truth then they are not going to listen to me anyway.
Selam
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Salaam George,
Thank you for the reply. If you don't mind, kindly allow me to respond to some of your statements ).
But thats just it the hadith followers are not following the prophet according to the Quran and hadith.
Fair enough but the hadith following so-called muslims who come here insulting us even when we did not start of mocking their believes, are also sopposed to follow that verse.
While the verse that you posted, regards the followers of Muhammad, there are other verses that tell us to utter words of peace to the those who are ignorant.
The (faithful) slaves of the Beneficent are they who walk upon the earth modestly, and when the foolish ones address them answer Peace;
These will be given their reward twice over, because they are steadfast and repel evil with good, and spend of that wherewith We have provided them, And when they hear vanity they withdraw from it and say Unto us our works and unto you your works. Peace be unto you! We desire not the ignorant.
And remember what God told Musa to do, when he was about to face Fir'aun one of the worst offenders and transgressors in the eye of God.
Go, both of you, unto Pharaoh. Lo! he hath transgressed (the bounds). And speak unto him a gentle word, that peradventure he may heed or fear.
The Quran also encourages us to speak the truth (even if the truth seems harsh) I use harsh words when I see so called muslims come on here and defend things like stonning to death of women and marrying and having sex with underage girls all becuase of what the stupid hadith they are following says and as any decent human being, I get very angry especially when these are the things that the white racist western media shows and which encourages people in the west to descriminate and attack muslims.
Yes, we are commanded to speak the truth. But to tell the truth, we do not need to include name calling or insults. We are encouraged to deliver the teaching of the Qur'an peacefully, and it is up to God to open their hearts. What I currently see as unnecessary is the name-calling and insults because I feel that nothing positive can be achieved by doing so.
I myself (along with many other prople of color) have been stopped and search by police several times (4 times in my case)becuase we were suspected of being "terrorists" whilst being black/non-white and wearing back packs and this all happened when at the time when I wasnt even a muslim.
Well, I too coped verbal abuses on a few occasions when people discovered my spiritual belief. So? It's part of the trial and we have to be patient in facing it. Rather than finger-pointing as to whose faults it is, I think the best way to improve the condition is taking actions and making changes.
It is question of being a warner and it's up to him whether he listens or not becuase like the Quran also says "there is no compulsion in religion".
Being a warner does not necessarily mean we use to use harsh and condescending words, right?
If you have read the Bukhari hadith , which no doubt you have then it should be obvious to you and anyone who reads it that his intentions were to slander GOD and the prophet.
While I do not take the muhadithins' compilation of hadiths as religiously binding, I have to say that not all these hadiths are bad. There are some that are nice and inspirational, and I have no problem with that. Yes, there are many that I do not agree with because they are illogical and cruel, though I have to say I make that conclusion using modern perspectives. We may not agree with marrying a 9 year old girl, but at that period of time, it was normal for a girl to be married at such a young age. Heck, in my country of origin, there are still village girls who get married at the age of 10. We might think that the idea of owning slaves is a slander, but slavery did exist back then, and it was just recently abolished.
Anyway, the point that I am trying to make with Bukhari and other muhadithin is that we never know their true intentions. It might be purely political and corruption, but possibility remained that they were sincere in preserving the sayings and deeds of Muhammad. We cannot claim with certainty that they intended to slander Muhammad and God, because we are judging their literature using modern perspectives.
If we do not agree with the teachings of the hadiths, by all means do not practice it and try to warn the others. However, I advise that I advise that we refrain from using harsh words because it does nothing for us. Instead, it hurts our image and it hurts our soul.
Also I have been called derogatory remarks by so-called muslims caling me "kufir" when I told them that I did not follow hadith based on what the Quran and hadith and I was doing it in a humble way. Now I am sorry if i'm not as good as a muslim as you but when you a called kuffir by those who you know truely are the kuffirs, their hypocracy will eventually make you annyoed or even angry and the Quran says that we should stand up to injustice even against ourselves or even against our parents and which also means to speak out against those who are themselves are not acting whcih is based on what the Quran says.
Firstly, I am not a better muslim than you are. Only God knows.
Secondly, I too have been called kaffir by some people for not following the hadiths and I understand that it hurts. I believe, however, that we can 'fight' them by standing in dignity, and not lowering our standards to match theirs. I said previously that islam is about establishing peace, and there will be many trials to come. Satan will always be there to tempt us after we believe and we have to be careful not to fall into his trap. Don't let ourselves sink into hatred and contempt, after we have declared to maintain peace.
Whenever people trouble me with their words, I'll just keep in mind these verses
Well know We that thy bosom is times oppressed by what they say, But hymn the praise of thy Lord, and be of those who make prostration (unto Him). And serve thy Lord till the Inevitable cometh unto thee.
The verses work wonders D.
You should also know from reading the Quran that the persecuted muslims had to fight many battles of self defence to establish that peace and whilst Islam does not encourage agression it does encourage self-dence (which can be verbally) and the defence of any innocent human being whether muslim or non-muslim (which can also be verbally) and the Quran also says that if a people who are fighting against you give you peace then you give them peace and that the way I treat hadith followers.
Yes, I understand that we should defend ourselves when confronted. However, in terms of debates and arguments, there are boundaries that we must adhere too. Verbally, we are required to defend our beliefs, through powerful and convincing words. However, I believe speaking powerful words can be achieved without resorting to harsh words at all. When they speak vain and rude words, it is best to withdraw from them I suppose.
Surely someone like yourself who claims to uphold the system would understand that.
I do. I have experienced engaging in hot debates with some traditional muslims and the whole thing turned really really messy. It was then, that I decided to stop talking in confronting manners and withdrawing from them, that I could finally make peace between us, and within. Interestingly, some actually 'looked' for me after my withdrawal and asked me about what I am currently gaining from my current study.
Anyway, enough for my rambling. Whatever you do, I hope that is for the best, and that you'll gain peace ).
Salaam.
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Selam
Salaam George,.
Thank you for the reply. If you don't mind, kindly allow me to respond to some of your statements
While the verse that you posted, regards the followers of Muhammad, there are other verses that tell us to utter words of peace to the those who are ignorant.
The (faithful) slaves of the Beneficent are they who walk upon the earth modestly, and when the foolish ones address them answer Peace;
These will be given their reward twice over, because they are steadfast and repel evil with good, and spend of that wherewith We have provided them, And when they hear vanity they withdraw from it and say Unto us our works and unto you your works. Peace be unto you! We desire not the ignorant.
And remember what God told Musa to do, when he was about to face Fir'aun one of the worst offenders and transgressors in the eye of God.
Go, both of you, unto Pharaoh6108 And do not insult those who call on other than God, lest they
insult God out of ignorance. And We have similarly adorned for
every nation their works; then to their Lord is their return and
He will inform them of what they had done.And when I was using harsh words I was thinking of this verse
6108 And do not insult those who call on other than God, lest they
insult God out of ignorance. And We have similarly adorned for
every nation their works; then to their Lord is their return and
He will inform them of what they had done.By saying that the Quran does not explain all things he "RamsulHamsa" was basically insulting GOD and calling him a liar and probably out of ignorance. If cllaing GOD I liar is not a stupid thing to do then what is it then?
Yes, I understand that we should defend ourselves when confronted. However, in terms of debates and arguments, there are boundaries that we must adhere too. Verbally, we are required to defend our beliefs, through powerful and convincing words. However, I believe speaking powerful words can be achieved without resorting to harsh words at all. When they speak vain and rude words, it is best to withdraw from them I suppose.
That is exactly what I have done before in fact recently I talked to another muslim who happens to follow hadith and I told him why I did not follow hadith and also gave him information about all the Quranic verses in arabic which condemn hadith, using the actual word hadith. He did not call me kuffir or insult me at all, infact regardless of whether he agreed with the information I gave him or not, I commended him for it and there was no need to for me to use harsh words unlike in the example as described in verse 6108
Yes, we are commanded to speak the truth. But to tell the truth, we do not need to include name calling or insults. We are encouraged to deliver the teaching of the Qur'an peacefully, and it is up to God to open their hearts. What I currently see as unnecessary is the name-calling and insults because I feel that nothing positive can be achieved by doing so.
Again I refer you to the above verse 6108
Well, I too coped verbal abuses on a few occasions when people discovered my spiritual belief. So? It's part of the trial and we have to be patient in facing it. Rather than finger-pointing as to whose faults it is, I think the best way to improve the condition is taking actions and making changes.
Well I am well aware about the trails and tests that we face as muslims, So? Does that mean I'm not supposed to say anything and just keep quiet about so-called muslims who themsleves are contributing to the problems we face?
You can improve conditions and take peaceful actions in making changes AND speak out (even if that means harshly)
about why those changes and improvements have to be made.Being a warner does not necessarily mean we use to use harsh and condescending words, right?
It does if they are insulting GOD through their own ignorance, again I refer you to verse 6108
While I do not take the muhadithins' compilation of hadiths as religiously binding, I have to say that not all these hadiths are bad. There are some that are nice and inspirational, and I have no problem with that. Yes, there are many that I do not agree with because they are illogical and cruel, though I have to say I make that conclusion using modern perspectives. We may not agree with marrying a 9 year old girl, but at that period of time, it was normal for a girl to be married at such a young age. Heck, in my country of origin, there are still village girls who get married at the age of 10. We might think that the idea of owning slaves is a slander, but slavery did exist back then, and it was just recently abolished.
Anyway, the point that I am trying to make with Bukhari and other muhadithin is that we never know their true intentions. It might be purely political and corruption, but possibility remained that they were sincere in preserving the sayings and deeds of Muhammad. We cannot claim with certainty that they intended to slander Muhammad and God, because we are judging their literature using modern perspectives.
If we do not agree with the teachings of the hadiths, by all means do not practice it and try to warn the others. However, I advise that I advise that we refrain from using harsh words because it does nothing for us. Instead, it hurts our image and it hurts our soul.
I am also aware that ther are hadiths that agree with the Quran but thats not the point is it. The point is that is that since GOD has told us that the Quran is the BEST hadith and if some of the things in the bukhari hadiths agree with what is already in the Quran, then why do we need to follow any other hadith no matter much agrees with the Quran.
It's like saying I won't believe it in the Quran until I see that the hadith agrees with it which shows no trust or lack of trust in GODS words in the Quran.As for marrying 9 year old being the "normal" thing to do at the time, well so was female infanticide, so ws forced marriage, so was (and still is today in some countries today) stonning to death of women and obvously GOD and the prophet muhammad thought that at the time that those things were wrong even by 7th century perspectives becuase if they did'nt then GOD would not have sent down the Quran and told the prophet to preach against those things.
If Bukhari and other muhadithin were truely sincere about preserving the true teachings of the prophet then they would not be writing down ANY hadiths that the prophet said (other than the Quran, like the prophet said in the hadith itself ) and also they would not would not be writing such stupid lies and insults against GOD and the prophet and like I said in regards to using harsh words I refere you again to verse 6108 as to why I used harsh words.
Firstly, I am not a better muslim than you are. Only God knows.
Secondly, I too have been called kaffir by some people for not following the hadiths and I understand that it hurts. I believe, however, that we can 'fight' them by standing in dignity, and not lowering our standards to match theirs. I said previously that islam is about establishing peace, and there will be many trials to come. Satan will always be there to tempt us after we believe and we have to be careful not to fall into his trap. Don't let ourselves sink into hatred and contempt, after we have declared to maintain peace.
Whenever people trouble me with their words, I'll just keep in mind these verses
Well know We that thy bosom is times oppressed by what they say, But hymn the praise of thy Lord, and be of those who make prostration (unto Him). And serve thy Lord till the Inevitable cometh unto thee.
The verses work wonders .
I will never lower myself to their standards becuase I will NEVER doubt any of GODS words in the Quran, I will never force my faith on other people even if they hate my faith,I will never try and impose so called Sharia Law on 1) people who are not muslim and 2) which is based not on the Quran but are based on the hadith. Also I will never call for the death of anyone makes derogatory remarks or drawings of the prophet (only GOD can judge) but I will speak about it harshly.
If I am not doing the things that I've described above how am I not being dignified or comming down to their level?
Is using harsh words as bad as calling for the death of somebody, attacking embassy buildings because some stupid islamaphobic idiots went to make fun of the prophet?Like I said GOD and GOD ALONE will judge them.
Yes, I understand that we should defend ourselves when confronted. However, in terms of debates and arguments, there are boundaries that we must adhere too. Verbally, we are required to defend our beliefs, through powerful and convincing words. However, I believe speaking powerful words can be achieved without resorting to harsh words at all. When they speak vain and rude words, it is best to withdraw from them I suppose.
That is exactly what I have done before in fact recently I talked to another muslim who happens to follow hadith and I told him why I did not follow hadith and also gave him information about all the Quranic verses in arabic which condemn hadith, using the actual word hadith. He did not call me kuffir or insult me at all, infact regardless of whether he agreed with the information I gave him or not, I commended him for it and there was no need to for me to use harsh words unlike in the example as described in verse 6108
I do. I have experienced engaging in hot debates with some traditional muslims and the whole thing turned really really messy. It was then, that I decided to stop talking in confronting manners and withdrawing from them, that I could finally make peace between us, and within. Interestingly, some actually 'looked' for me after my withdrawal and asked me about what I am currently gaining from my current study.
I understand and I will only used harsh words with verse 6108 in mind
Anyway, enough for my rambling. Whatever you do, I hope that is for the best, and that you'll gain peace .
Thank you very much for your response. Whilst even though we share the same faith and yet may still have different ways of debating with people, I am sure that GOD sees what's in our hearts and that we both do what we do in different ways but both do it with a deep love for GOD.
Selam
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Peace all
We cannot fight fire with fire. If someone fight with fire, and we fight him back with fire, we will only add more fire to the already existing fire. And then the fire will become twice as much. We have to fight fire with water if we want to succeed.
Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that - Martin Luther King
An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind - Mohandas Gandhi -
Peace all
We cannot fight fire with fire. If someone fight with fire, and we fight him back with fire, we will only add more fire to the already existing fire. And then the fire will become twice as much. We have to fight fire with water if we want to succeed.
Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that - Martin Luther King
An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind - Mohandas GandhiPeace
I would prefer not to have to fight anyone BUT if need be I fight but ONLY in the way of ALLAH based on the Quran Alone
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the truth is unavoidable that Quran doesn't explain EVERYTHING!! Pause and reflect! thanks
those who believe in God and his book and understand it well, know full well as to why the exact method of prayer is not mentioned in the Quran. The Quran talks of salaat all over it. Infact, salaat is the first ritual that is prescribed in the Quran before anything else. People like are too hung up on the exact method of prayer and then they question the credibility of the Quran after it. Such people will be gathered on the last day for a sweet surprise.
Quran is complete and fully detailed and so if the exact method (multiple and vague variations of which are found in corrupted books of hadith) is not written in it, then it simply doesnt matter
The Quran tells us that salaat is for rememberance of God and further tells us to perform rukuh and sujood after invoking Allah's name and might.
Acceptance of salaat is not dependent on its method....it is dependent on the true intetion and love of your creator in your heart.
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Alot of ignorant freaks today think that Muhammad was the first one to establish salaat while Quran provides evidence that salaat has been established from long before. There are many prophets mentioned by name offering salaat in the Quran. Prophet Muhammad was simply told to establish it again for his community.
Interestingly, those who question the completeness of the quran and in turn, support the fake books of hadith NEVER LEARNED their salaat from the books of hadith. Salaat is an inspiration (as explained in the quran many many times) that people learn from one generation to the other.
I have asked this question to many sunni and shia people as to where they learned their salaat? they never said any book. they always said they learned from their father and mother in the house or other family members.
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Selam
While I do not take the muhadithins' compilation of hadiths as religiously binding, I have to say that not all these hadiths are bad. There are some that are nice and inspirational, and I have no problem with that.
Many people believe in this approach. My view is that there is a very fine line between being 'inspired' from something and then 'starting to believe' in it or what else it has to say. This example is that of a witness in a courtroom. Imagine this witness has provided accurate and true testimony over a dozen events but then he says something which is balatantly false and a lie. If you are a judge or jury member, how will you react to this situation? Will you still accept all of his testimony as TRUE? or will you start to doubt his character and overall testimony? I'll pick the later.
Same is the example of hadith books. The fact that these so called imams accpeted narrations that were against the quran and then went on to write them down in their books is clear proof thatthey were ignorant and illiterate with the quranic teachings.
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2170 If they are told, "Follow what God has sent down," they say, "No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing!" What if their fathers did not reason much and were not guided?
4321-22 Or have We given them a book before this which they are upholding? The fact is, they have said, "We found our fathers following a certain way, and we are following in their footsteps."
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Many people believe in this approach. My view is that there is a very fine line between being 'inspired' from something and then 'starting to believe' in it or what else it has to say. This example is that of a witness in a courtroom. Imagine this witness has provided accurate and true testimony over a dozen events but then he says something which is balatantly false and a lie. If you are a judge or jury member, how will you react to this situation? Will you still accept all of his testimony as TRUE? or will you start to doubt his character and overall testimony? I'll pick the later.
Same is the example of hadith books. The fact that these so called imams accpeted narrations that were against the quran and then went on to write them down in their books is clear proof thatthey were ignorant and illiterate with the quranic teachings.
Just in case you did'nt know that was actually BornAgains quote which I higlighted in bold. ;D
Anyway I tottally agree with your post bravo
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Many people believe in this approach. My view is that there is a very fine line between being 'inspired' from something and then 'starting to believe' in it or what else it has to say. This example is that of a witness in a courtroom. Imagine this witness has provided accurate and true testimony over a dozen events but then he says something which is balatantly false and a lie. If you are a judge or jury member, how will you react to this situation? Will you still accept all of his testimony as TRUE? or will you start to doubt his character and overall testimony? I'll pick the later.
Same is the example of hadith books. The fact that these so called imams accpeted narrations that were against the quran and then went on to write them down in their books is clear proof thatthey were ignorant and illiterate with the quranic teachings.
Salaam,
I never said I take hadiths as religiously binding. While I reject the divinity of hadiths, I do not dismiss the collection of hadiths in entirety. As I said, there are some nice and inspiring hadiths that can make me reflect and become a better person inshAllah, but I do not associate those hadiths with God. NEVER.
I mean, I get inspired by Biblical verses and some wise sayings, which are not from God, obviously. And I see nothing wrong with that. Same with hadiths. I try to filter the bad and only take the good. Just because the hadiths were compiled by muhadithins, that does not I will reject 100% the merit (not the divinity btw) of the hadiths all together.
Salaam.
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Welcome to the forum Salman
Peace David,
How do you interpret 475-79, 2190-191, and 532-33?
Salaam,
It would be interesting to read his responses. As for me, I better get quiet, since the question wasn't directed to me. I'm inclined to be in agreement with what Brother David said previously p.
Salaam.
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Salaam,
It would be interesting to read his responses. As for me, I better get quiet, since the question wasn't directed to me. I'm inclined to be in agreement with what Brother David said previously p.
Salaam.
Okay, let's try this again
Peace David, BornAgain, et al,
How do you interpret 475-79, 2190-191, and 532-33?Let's not forget this quote by Gandhi
?Fight violence with nonviolence if you can, and if you can?t do that, fight violence by any means, even if it means your utter extinction. But in no case should you leave your hearths and homes to be looted and burnt.?
"An eye for an eye" is often misinterpreted, IMO. To me, he was saying that it's not the best to fight fire with fire in every situation ("whole world" stands for all the time). If your house is getting burned down.. 'screaming peace' won't accomplish much. It's nice in theory (and believe me, I wish it were that easy), but it is very impractical.
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?Fight violence with nonviolence if you can, and if you can?t do that, fight violence by any means, even if it means your utter extinction. But in no case should you leave your hearths and homes to be looted and burnt.?
"An eye for an eye" is often misinterpreted, IMO. To me, he was saying that it's not the best to fight fire with fire in every situation ("whole world" stands for all the time). If your house is getting burned down.. 'screaming peace' won't accomplish much. It's nice in theory (and believe me, I wish it were that easy), but it is very impractical.
I 100% agree. Tyrants don't just go away when you ask them to make peace, all throughout the great reading we see brave believers fighting tyranny to achieve enduring peace. Please these imperfect/unrefined proposals
http//free-minds.org/peacefulness
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600414.msg246867#msg246867
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I would like to connect with other like minded individuals on this awesome forum who are from Canada (Toronto).
Peace Salman,
I was born and raised in the TO area. If you want to keep clear of 19ers, you'll want to avoid Feroz Karmally, who was an original disciple of Rashad Khalifa. He's still puttering around up there with about 20+/- followers. Like Yuksel, he thinks he's better than the people at submission.org because of a few tweaks in the Sunnah that Khalifa copied and pasted into his message.
http//free-minds.org/ayman19
http//free-minds.org/debate19
So, they're calling themselves "God Alone" or whatever, but it's basically just a Sunnah group with a twist of 19.
Peace,
-David
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Salaam Brother Jack,
Well I?ll try to answer your question. But just bear in mind, my lack of knowledge of the Arabic language, hence my interpretation relies heavily on the English translation(s) (I mostly use Yusuf Ali and Marmaduke Pickthall). One more thing, I hope you do not misunderstand me. My original post in this thread is about not using offensive speeches while talking to those who hold different spiritual beliefs from us, regardless they speak kindly to us or not.
Anyway, my take of the verses that you posted is that they are about physical self-defense. We are commanded to physically defend ourselves when the others wage physical wars against us first. Of course I will not idly sit while I am oppressed, I will definitely defend myself and my belief systems within Qur?anic boundaries, that is I will fight on equal terms, and I will not start the war first and I will stop fighting when they declare peace.
My argument in my previous posts regards fighting verbally, and not physically. I advised that someone should use humble speech when being confronted, and not use speak harshly even though the other party may not speak to us kindly. My current understanding right now yes, we are told to fight those who declare physical war on us ? this self-defense will ensure our safety and other Believers. However, in the case of ?verbal? war, I believe that the ?an-eye-for-an-eye? does not apply. Even though the other party insults us for what we believe, we should not throw an insult back to them, but instead, respond in humble speech or withdraw from the conversation and continue walking towards the Path. My current understanding is derived from 2563, 2855, 2043-44, 7042, 1597-99.
For example, if someone insults me, ?Go to hell, kaffir!? , I won?t respong, ?No! You?re the kafir #$^&%&( ZOMG!!oneoneone!?. Instead, I will argue in the best manner possible without name-calling, and once I have raised my views, I will withdraw from the conversation if the person insists on his/her belief being the right one. I guess I will say that we have different views, and that we should strive for what we believe in, peacefully.
Oh, I do not tend to take the term ?an-eye-for-an-eye? too literally. I mean, if someone hits me on my face, I will not demand punishment where I hit him on the face where I exert equal force. Instead, I will demand compensation that will cover the damage that has been incurred. That?s just me and my understanding anyway. Feel free to disagree =).
Salaam.
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Peace David,
How do you interpret 475-79, 2190-191, and 532-33?
Peace Jack )
475 tells us to fight in self defence, but that we should not aggress (cross the boundaries by hurting those who hurt us more than necessary).
I think 475 is relevant to 545. 545 tells us we should wound those who wound us in a similar way; an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth etc. And if we don't fight back ( by for example forgiving them), some of our mistakes/wrongdoings will be canceled.476 tells us to fight in the cause of god (fight for justice/good), and that those who fight by doing wrong, for example by supporting a tyrant and oppressing the people are fighting in the cause of evil. Another example is if a coluntry declares war on another country to take its natural resources and oppress and kill the civillians etc. If the imperialist country does such harm then the people of that country should fight against the powers of evil.
477 tells us that there are people who are muslims and study quran and islam, but when it comes to fighting/self defence, they were afraid of those who they needed to fight agains/defend themselves against and they did not want to fight (they liked islam when it was theorethical but not when it was practical and fight was needed). They wanted to delay the fight for another time (which is an excuse to not fight). But they are adviced to fight because the enjoyment of this life is little (which means that they should not attach themselves to this life). This life is short, maximum 120 years while the hereafter is everlasting. For those who are aware the award of their fight will be granted in the hereafter.
478 tells us that people can not escape from death, death will find them wherever they hide, even in fortified towers. Fortified towers can be safe from armies, but it can not be safe from traitors, spies, or diseases. For example a king that is hiding in a fortified tower may think he is safe from death, but then he might suddenly be infected by a disease and die from the disease. Or a chef of king might poison his food. So as we can see, no one can escape from death.This verse is relevant to the verse above by the way. So if people hide from death by not fighting in self-defence (since they think they would die), this is a wrong belief. Because no one knows when they are going to die. But people calculate that they can escape death by not joining in the war by fighting in self-defence. For example a man may not join to fight for self defence and stay in his house instead. But then an earthquake may kill him instead. But if he had joined the war, maybe he would have been safe and not been killed from the earthquake because an earthquake is more dangerous when you are inside a house than when you are outside. So the man thought he was clever by not joining to fight in self-defence because he calculated that if he join the war he will die in the battlefield. But life is unpredictable and human beings do not know the future. So if he had joined the war, he may have been alive after the war was finished. Believers should put their trust in God.
479 tells us that the good that happens to us is from God, for example the creation of God is All good. The creation of the heavens and earth is perfect. There are no flaws in it. God gave human beings everything good, but evil acts are acts which human beings do eachother. But due to lack of knowledge, human beings think that they are not responsible for their life and environment. It is the humans that are responsible for oppressing and killing eachother. It's are own kind that our kind that our doing all the killing. If everything good comes from God then some people might ask, what about natural disasters? I think natural disasters happen because of human beings breaking the laws of nature (without being aware of them). If everything good comes from God, then some people might ask, then what about diseases? Diseases are man-made. Human beings are guilty. Animals from natural places like amazon are not infected with diseases. When animals that live in natural places are not infected with diseases, then it is logical that if human beings live in natural environmens they will not be infected with diseases neither. For example in the past in china, and especially in the natural places in that country, obesity and other diseases did not exist in the past. But when china introduced western ways of diet and lifestyle, then different diseases started to appear. It's easy to see that human beings are responsible for diseases. If everything good comes from God, then some people might ask, then what about animals that attack human beings? If the human beings studied animals and learned their nature they could probably prevent all or almost all attacks. This is a topic which will take too much time to write about in detail but i can give one example. For example people that live in a city are more safe from animal attacks than people that live in a country or in a village. Science and technology has enabled us to be more safe than ever from things which were almost totally outside our countrol in the past.
2191 tells us that we should fight against those who fight us, but we should not cross the limits by attacking them more than necessary. Our creator do not loved aggression.
2192 tells us that we can kill those who oppress us and have started an offensive war against us. Why can those who oppress be killed? Because oppression is worse than murder. By other words, if we are oppressed we are allowed to kill our oppressors. For example a tyrant (evil ruler) in a country can be killed. The supporters of the tyrant can be murdered as well. Sometimes a murdering the tyrant and his supporter is the only method which works against them. The only way for the people to get their rights (freedom, justice, peace and equality) is to get rid of the tyrant and its supporters. The tyrant and his supporters will not listed to logic, reason, rationality, truth and justice. They don't care about that. They only care about power, greed and money. If the oppressed people do not murder the tyrant and his evil supporters, they will enslave them, take away their rights and maybe even torture them for plenty of years. It is better for a victim to kill his oppressor than to be a political prisoner with no right and become physically abused in the prison for many years. It is important to uphold justice at all cost.
532 tells us that that human beings are allowed to punish a human being (murder him) if a human being has commited murder (for example murdered someone innocent) or if a human being has done corruption in the land (for example taking taking the money of the people and their natural resources and leaved them in poverty so that they are hungry and inflicted by diseases). Murder as a punishment is therefore only allowed to those who have murdered innocent people or those who have done corruption in the land. These two are the only excepsions were murder is allowed. Since human beings are interconnected (one), killing one person is like killing all humanity. Because the person that were killed benefited the whole humanity through his work, contributions etc. Saving one person is like saving the whole humanity. Because the person that is saved will benefit the whole humanity through his works, contributions etc. These laws have not only been given to Muhammed. These laws have been given to other messengers as well. But many of the people do not follow these laws. This is my current understanding of 532.
533 tells us that that those who fight God and his messenger and make corruption in the land should be killed or crucified, or that their hands and feet be cut of from alternate sides or that they get banished from the land/country. As far as i know 533 refers to when Muhammed lived. And i am not if the translation of 533 is correct.
From my interpretation and understanding of the laws of God, we should only fight in self-defence. We should never start a fight/war. All the verses are talking about physical fights and attack, not verbal fights or verbal discussions. For verbal fights and discussions Quran has other rules and principles which i am going to talk about in my next post.