I and We
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Going by those verses and just about all through Quran Allah refers to Himself in the third person which would lead many to think that Muhammed authored Quran and not Allah Himself.
'We' is also Allah referring to Himself and is like the Royal 'we'. English people would prbably see this more, its like 'We are not ammused' that Queen Victoria was famous for saying.
All highlights above are from me.
EXACTLY. You said it sister. Very simple, nothing complicated and EXOTIC about the "WE" in the Qur'aan, and please do not try to PHILOSOPHIZE it either. Its just a convention in almost all languages. Throughout the history all KINGS and "ROYALTIES", more or less, UNDESERVEDLY and out of ARROGANCE have tried to imitate and "compete" with GOD ALMIGHTY.
Peace,
Khalil -
057.001
YUSUFALI Whatever is in the heavens and on earth,- let it declare the Praises and Glory of Allah for He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
057.002
YUSUFALI To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth It is He Who gives Life and Death; and He has Power over all things.
057.003
YUSUFALI He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Immanent and He has full knowledge of all things.
057.004
YUSUFALI He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of Authority). He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do.
057.005
YUSUFALI To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all affairs are referred back to Allah. 057.006
YUSUFALI He merges Night into Day, and He merges Day into Night; and He has full knowledge of the secrets of (all) hearts.Going by those verses and just about all through Quran Allah refers to Himself in the third person which would lead many to think that Muhammed authored Quran and not Allah Himself.
'We' is also Allah referring to Himself and is like the Royal 'we'. English people would prbably see this more, its like 'We are not ammused' that Queen Victoria was famous for saying.
I have researched the usage of We and am familiar with why We is used, my question is why is We used in some situations and I in the other situations
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Literal That I, I am your Lord, so take off your two shoes , that you are at the Valley the Holy/Hallowed/Sanctified/Blessed Tuwan/wrapped within (itself) .
Yusuf Ali "Verily I am thy Lord! therefore (in My presence) put off thy shoes thou art in the sacred valley Tuwa.
Pickthal Lo! I, even I, am thy Lord, So take off thy shoes, for lo! thou art in the holy valley of Tuwa.
Arberry I am thy Lord; put off thy shoes; thou art in the holy valley, Towa.
Shakir Surely I am your Lord, therefore put off your shoes; surely you are in the sacred valley, Tuwa,
Sarwar I Am your Lord. Take off your shoes; you are in the holy valley of Tuwa.
Khalifa "I am your Lord; remove your sandals. You are in the sacred valley, Tuwaa.
Hilali/Khan "Verily! I am your Lord! So take off your shoes, you are in the sacred valley, Tuwa.
H/K/Saheeh Indeed, I am your Lord, so remove your sandals. Indeed, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa.
Malik In fact, I am your Lord! Take off your shoes, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa.
QXP Verily, I am your Lord! Take off your sandals, verily, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa." (Your quest for the Truth is over. So lighten the burdens of your search. Now you are in the Sacred Valley of Revelation).
Maulana Ali Surely I am thy Lord, so take off thy shoes; surely thou art in the sacred valley Tuwa.
Free Minds "I am your Lord, so take off your slippers, you are in the holy valley Tawa."
Qaribullah I am your Lord. Take off your shoes, for you are in Towa, the sacred valley.
George Sale Verily I am thy Lord Wherefore put off thy shoes; for thou art in the sacred valley Towa.
JM Rodwell Verily, I am thy Lord. therefore pull off thy shoes for thou art in the holy valley of Towa.
Asad Verily, I am thy Sustainer! Take off, then, thy sandals! Behold, thou art in the twicehallowed valley,
Transliteration Innee ana rabbuka faikhlaAA naAAlayka innaka bialwadi almuqaddasi tuwan
Literal That I, I am your Lord, so take off your two shoes , that you are at the Valley the Holy/Hallowed/Sanctified/Blessed Tuwan/wrapped within (itself) .
Yusuf Ali "Verily I am thy Lord! therefore (in My presence) put off thy shoes thou art in the sacred valley Tuwa.
Pickthal Lo! I, even I, am thy Lord, So take off thy shoes, for lo! thou art in the holy valley of Tuwa.
Arberry I am thy Lord; put off thy shoes; thou art in the holy valley, Towa.
Shakir Surely I am your Lord, therefore put off your shoes; surely you are in the sacred valley, Tuwa,
Sarwar I Am your Lord. Take off your shoes; you are in the holy valley of Tuwa.
Khalifa "I am your Lord; remove your sandals. You are in the sacred valley, Tuwaa.
Hilali/Khan "Verily! I am your Lord! So take off your shoes, you are in the sacred valley, Tuwa.
H/K/Saheeh Indeed, I am your Lord, so remove your sandals. Indeed, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa.
Malik In fact, I am your Lord! Take off your shoes, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa.
QXP Verily, I am your Lord! Take off your sandals, verily, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa." (Your quest for the Truth is over. So lighten the burdens of your search. Now you are in the Sacred Valley of Revelation).
Maulana Ali Surely I am thy Lord, so take off thy shoes; surely thou art in the sacred valley Tuwa.
Free Minds "I am your Lord, so take off your slippers, you are in the holy valley Tawa."
Qaribullah I am your Lord. Take off your shoes, for you are in Towa, the sacred valley.
George Sale Verily I am thy Lord Wherefore put off thy shoes; for thou art in the sacred valley Towa.
JM Rodwell Verily, I am thy Lord. therefore pull off thy shoes for thou art in the holy valley of Towa.
Asad Verily, I am thy Sustainer! Take off, then, thy sandals! Behold, thou art in the twicehallowed valley,
Transliteration Waana ikhtartuka faistamiAA lima yooha
Literal And I, I chose you, so hear/listen to what is inspired/transmitted .
Yusuf Ali "I have chosen thee listen, then, to the inspiration (sent to thee).
Pickthal And I have chosen thee, so hearken unto that which is inspired.
Arberry I Myself have chosen thee; therefore give thou ear to this revelation.
Shakir And I have chosen you, so listen to what is revealed
Sarwar I have chosen you as My Messengers. Listen to the revelation.
Khalifa "I have chosen you, so listen to what is being revealed.
Hilali/Khan "And I have chosen you. So listen to that which is inspired to you.
H/K/Saheeh And I have chosen you, so listen to what is revealed .
Malik I have chosen you, so listen to what I am about to reveal.
QXP I have chosen you to be My Prophet. Listen, then, to what is being revealed.
Maulana Ali And I have chosen thee so listen to what is revealed
Free Minds "And I have chosen you, so listen to what is being inspired."
Qaribullah I have chosen you. Therefore, listen to what shall be revealed.
George Sale And I have chosen thee; therefore hearken with attention unto that which is revealed unto thee.
JM Rodwell And I have chosen thee hearken then to what shall be revealed.
Asad and I have chosen thee listen, then, to what is being revealed .
Transliteration Innanee ana Allahu la ilaha illa ana faoAAbudnee waaqimi alssalata lithikree
Literal That I , I am God, no god except Me, so worship Me, and keep up/start the prayers for mentioning/remembering Me (E).
Yusuf Ali "Verily, I am Allah There is no god but I So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.
Pickthal Lo! I, even I, am Allah, There is no Allah save Me. So serve Me and establish worship for My remembrance.
Arberry Verily I am God; there is no god but I; therefore serve Me, and perform the prayer of My remembrance.
Shakir Surely I am Allah, there is no god but I, therefore serve Me and keep up prayer for My remembrance
Sarwar I Am the only God. Worship Me and be steadfast in prayer to have My name always in your mind.
Khalifa "I am GOD; there is no other god beside Me. You shall worship Me alone, and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) to remember Me.
Hilali/Khan "Verily! I am Allah! La ilaha illa Ana (none has the right to be worshipped but I), so worship Me, and perform AsSalat (Iqamat-as-Salat) for My Remembrance.
H/K/Saheeh Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.
Malik It is Me, Allah; there is none worthy of worship except Me, so worship Me and establish Salah for My remembrance.
QXP Verily, I, I alone am Allah, there is no god but Me. Therefore, serve Me alone, and from this very moment strive to establish the
Divine Order in the land to practically remember Me.Maulana Ali Surely I am Allah, there is no God but I, so serve Me, and keep up prayer for My remembrance,
Free Minds "I am God, there is no god but Me, so serve Me and hold the contact-method for My remembrance."
Qaribullah Indeed, I am Allah. There is no god except Me. Worship Me, and establish the prayer of My remembrance.
George Sale Verily I am God; there is no god beside me Wherefore worship me, and perform thy prayer in remembrance of me.
JM Rodwell Verily, I am God there is no God but me therefore worship me, and observe prayer for a remembrance of me.
Asad "Verily, I - I alone - am God; there is no deity save Me. Hence, worship Me alone, and be constant in prayer, so as to remember Me!'?
and then and switch to We from I
Transliteration Qala khuthha wala takhaf sanuAAeeduha seerataha al-oola
Literal He said "Take it and do not fear, We will return it (to) its form , the first/beginning."
Yusuf Ali (Allah) said, "Seize it, and fear not We shall return it at once to its former condition"..
Pickthal He said Grasp it and fear not. We shall return it to its former state.
Arberry Said He, 'Take it, and fear not; We will restore it to its first state.
Shakir He said Take hold of it and fear not; We will restore it to its former state
Sarwar The Lord said, "Hold the serpent and do not be afraid; We will bring it back to its original form."
Khalifa He said, "Pick it up; do not be afraid. We will return it to its original state.
Hilali/Khan Allah said"Grasp it, and fear not, We shall return it to its former state,
H/K/Saheeh said, Seize it and fear not; We will return it to its former condition.
Malik Allah said "Catch it and don?t be afraid, We shall change it to its original shape.
QXP He said, "Grasp it and fear not. We will keep it evergreen." Moses was told to hold fast to what he was taught to the extent that it became his first nature; even in frightening situations. And that he would come out unscathed from trying circumstances.
Maulana Ali He said Seize it and fear not. We shall return it to its former state.
Free Minds He said "Take it and do not be fearful, We will turn it back to its previous form."
Qaribullah 'Take it, and do not fear, ' He said, 'We will restore it to its former state.
George Sale God said, take hold on it, and fear not We will reduce it to its former condition.
JM Rodwell He said, "Lay hold on it, and fear not to its former state will we restore it."
Asad Said He "Take hold of it, and fear not We shall restore it to its former state.
Transliteration Linuriyaka min ayatina alkubra
Literal To show you/make you understand (E) from Our evidences/signs the greatest/biggest .
Yusuf Ali "In order that We may show thee (two) of our Greater Signs.
Pickthal That We may show thee (some) of Our greater portents,
Arberry So We would show thee some of Our greatest signs.
Shakir That We may show you of Our greater signs
Sarwar This We have done to show you some of Our greater miracles.
Khalifa "We thus show you some of our great portents.
Hilali/Khan "That We may show you (some) of Our Greater Signs.
H/K/Saheeh That We may show you of Our greater signs.
Malik These miracles are given to you, in order to show you some of Our Great Signs.
QXP We will show you some of Our great Signs (witness how the strength of the Truth can bring about great Revolutions (171), (7920)).
Maulana Ali That We may show thee of Our greater signs.
Free Minds "This is to show you Our great signs."
Qaribullah But We shall show you some of Our greatest signs.
George Sale That we may shew thee some of our greatest signs.
JM Rodwell That We may shew thee the greatest of our signs.
Asad so that We might make thee aware of some of Our greatest wonders.
Is this because in this situation He was talking to Moses directly and therefore used I instead of We? Does using I in this situation instead of We have to do with that? However when the conversation continues in 221 and 223 it changes from I to We? In God is saying there is no God but Me/I. Is I used in 215 and the preceding verses to distinguish and make clear the singularity of God and that is why it switches to We after the singularity has been cemented?
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All highlights above are from me.
EXACTLY. You said it sister. Very simple, nothing complicated and EXOTIC about the "WE" in the Qur'aan, and please do not try to PHILOSOPHIZE it either. Its just a convention in almost all languages. Throughout the history all KINGS and "ROYALTIES", more or less, UNDESERVEDLY and out of ARROGANCE have tried to imitate and "compete" with GOD ALMIGHTY.
Peace,
KhalilIs highlighting the usage of I in verses from Surah 20 compared with verses using We in the same Surah in the same conversation fall under the realm of trying to explain/understand/question verses which are mutashabih? I am not being sarcastic with this question, I am seriously asking this.
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I'll give you my perspective of it. I think the quran is working from a panentheistic perspective - that is to say that God is everything and beyond. Consider this, there is absolutely NOTHING separating you from anything else in the universe, you are part of the perfectly smooth fluid dance of light and matter; we are the image constructed merely by the interaction of an endless number of photons .
The best way to put it is, imagine a tall building and a single person walking alongside the bottom. Suddenly, two massive boulders fall off the top. SPLAT, our dude is now a pink-ish stain on the floor. The pavement behind him merely has a crater from the impact. Now, with the full ego-centric perception of the world, you would think holy crap and focus on the dude who is now gone. The crater to the left is an "ex-human" and the crater to the right is "just a crater".
However in reality, what happened? Two pieces of material fell down onto two other pieces of material and resulted in a different arrangement of material or to phrase it even better, energy energied into energy (i.e. energy originally shaped by photons becomes a new shape of energy via interaction with photons ). The crater to the left just "is", and the crater to the right just "is". It is the subjective way in which they just "are" that is the important thing to the ego self. The ego self is what divides things, says "this is me, that is not me"; for instance, your ego tells you that your body is "you" and anything outside of your skin is "not you" and so on when in reality, everything is one and fundamentally interconnected.
While our shape is fleeting, it is a fundamental law of the universe that nothing is created or destroyed. Thus the "One" that was there at the start of existence is going to be the same "One" that is there at the end of existence and it is thus easy to see why it is said both "First and Last" AND "Evident and Immanent" in the referred verse; the totality is all of these things and can ONLY be these things.
Suppose you tried to pack an infinite amount of energy into a single photon. As the amount of energy (information content) increases, the wavelength tends towards zero and the frequency tends towards infinity. Thus the "size" of the photon decreases to a point where the very idea of "size" is no longer sensible but also, it has an infinite amount of information packed into it; this is what I consider "the One" because it is nothing more and nothing less than pure undivided oneness.
Thus I believe that the totality is perhaps what is being referred to as "I" in the quran and the "We" are the relevant components. A strikingly beautiful part of the quran is ; it is the best description of the creator and his relationship with reality I have ever seen. The soundness of this piece relates to how the world operates physically and the key component is - "(...) He is with you wherever you are; and Allah sees what you do"; This leads straight onto - "To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all affairs are referred back to Allah."
Now what I mean by this, is that every single particle in existence merely asks a simple question at every moment in time, "What's happening here?". You can think of the passing of time as someone continuously asking "What's happening here?" And how do they find out? Each particle interacts with every other particle and the photons let them know what is actually going on. It is a sea of oneness where the light dictates what happens.
And so, when you see things such as "All things sing praises to Allah" throughout the quran that appear not to make much sense owing to their incorrect translation, keep in mind that "Allah" knows what the fuck he's talking about.
The "We" described in the quran is NOT Allah and nor can it be until the day of true clarity. If it was "Allah" then an "I" would have been used, Allah does not use anything other than perfectly precise wording. To my knowledge, the "We" in the quran is never described (hint except by its non-description!) yet the overwhelming majority of the quran is dedicated to describing Allah, directly and indirectly. The "We" is perhaps transient and unimportant in the global picture but Allah is important, indeed the only truly important thing. If "We" does anything, it is only by what it knows from Allah.
The bolded part makes sense to me. I did not really take the time read what you said, I apologize.
So going with the first paragraph of your first reply, would it be correct to deduct that what you are saying is We is not exclusively Allah, but Allah and the rest of the universe? Since we are all one kind of thing? I'm sorry I hope you are not getting impatient with me but I'm trying to understand this, sorry
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The bolded part makes sense to me. I did not really take the time read what you said, I apologize.
So going with the first paragraph of your first reply, would it be correct to deduct that what you are saying is We is not exclusively Allah, but Allah and the rest of the universe? Since we are all one kind of thing? I'm sorry I hope you are not getting impatient with me but I'm trying to understand this, sorry
And according to your understanding, is that why God uses I in the verses provided which detail His conversation with Moses? In other words He is using I because in this instance He is saying I am The God of the Universe, there is no other God? Or no God but me? And thus He uses I for clarification in this situation of His singularity instead of We?
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And according to your understanding, is that why God uses I in the verses provided which detail His conversation with Moses? In other words He is using I because in this instance He is saying I am The God of the Universe, there is no other God? Or no God but me? And thus He uses I for clarification in this situation of His singularity instead of We?
This is my understanding currently for why I is used in the above verses instead of We. Does anyone else have any thoughts, commentary etc. about my understanding for the usage of I in these instances instead of We?
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Pay close attention to my wording. In fact, if you read a post from me at any time, pay VERY close attention to my wording. I don't use imprecise words when I can. Unfortunately precise words can only be understood by precise minds. Most of my posts could be cut short from pages to 3 sentences (e.g. , , in this post) if a certain group of people were inclined by ALLAH to think instead of farting through their mouths.
The correct understanding is this
We = The seen
ALLAH = The seen AND the unseen
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_coneAt each moment in time, "We" gets bigger. "We" always submits to ALLAH and it can do nothing else; this is the divine balance. "We" is relative to the observer; your "We" is not my "We" and it will not be until the day when "We" becomes "I".
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This is my understanding currently for why I is used in the above verses instead of We. Does anyone else have any thoughts, commentary etc. about my understanding for the usage of I in these instances instead of We?
Not really. Linguistic interpretation is the hardest way I found to interpret the Koran. Thats why I simply focus on context rather than linguistic analysis. Anyways I am not a technocrat.
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057.001
YUSUFALI Whatever is in the heavens and on earth,- let it declare the Praises and Glory of Allah for He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
057.002
YUSUFALI To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth It is He Who gives Life and Death; and He has Power over all things.
057.003
YUSUFALI He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Immanent and He has full knowledge of all things.
057.004
YUSUFALI He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of Authority). He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do.
057.005
YUSUFALI To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all affairs are referred back to Allah. 057.006
YUSUFALI He merges Night into Day, and He merges Day into Night; and He has full knowledge of the secrets of (all) hearts.Going by those verses and just about all through Quran Allah refers to Himself in the third person which would lead many to think that Muhammed authored Quran and not Allah Himself.
'We' is also Allah referring to Himself and is like the Royal 'we'. English people would prbably see this more, its like 'We are not ammused' that Queen Victoria was famous for saying.
Royal people use We because they believe that The God is on their side, that they are The God's representative. Research "ruling by divine right."
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http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14531.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14531.msg165822#msg165822As the second link shows, the person being quoted is saying that it refers to We because it refers to God and the Holy Spirit Jibreel.
A better explanation than your explanation, that God is referring to Himself only with We.
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"I" is the Creator,
i think "We" is the God in the created system, so God is part or whole of the creations.
So whenever HE talks about the events in this world thats controlled by Him.. he uses "We" and whenever He talks about Creation he talks about "I".
Your Lord said to the angels, "I am creating a human being from aged mud, like the potter's clay.
"Once I perfect him, and blow into him from My spirit, you shall fall prostrate before him."
Inform My servants that I am the Forgiver, Most Merciful.i may be wrong. God knows the best.
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peace
What would be your answer to the below verse where I?ve highlighted?
We responded to him and granted him John; we fixed his wife for him. That is because they used to hasten to work righteousness, and implored us in situations of joy, as well as fear. To us, they were reverent.
peace
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peace
What would be your answer to the below verse where I?ve highlighted?
We responded to him and granted him John; we fixed his wife for him. That is because they used to hasten to work righteousness, and implored us in situations of joy, as well as fear. To us, they were reverent.
peace
Peace,
See 4251.
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So whenever HE talks about the events in this world thats controlled by Him.. he uses "We" and whenever He talks about Creation he talks about "I Amin
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/056.%20Al%20Waqeta/56.57a.gif
We have created you people. Then why don't you accept/admit it?
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/056.%20Al%20Waqeta/56.58a.gif
Do you people then see/reflect on that which you people pour?
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/056.%20Al%20Waqeta/56.59a.gif
Do you people create him/that particular single sperm? or We are the Creator?Chapter56
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Salaam OPF,
You said, Quote-"At each moment in time, "We" gets bigger. "We" always submits to ALLAH and it can do nothing else; this is the divine balance. "We" is relative to the observer; your "We" is not my "We" and it will not be until the day when "We" becomes "I"."
My question is how can the thought become the thinker?
You say a day will arrive when 'we' becomes 'I', this would mean the thought the 'we' transforms into the 'I' the thinker, please explain the logic of your statement.
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Salaam OPF,
You said, Quote-"At each moment in time, "We" gets bigger. "We" always submits to ALLAH and it can do nothing else; this is the divine balance. "We" is relative to the observer; your "We" is not my "We" and it will not be until the day when "We" becomes "I"."
My question is how can the thought become the thinker?
You say a day will arrive when 'we' becomes 'I', this would mean the thought the 'we' transforms into the 'I' the thinker, please explain the logic of your statement.
I think it's inevitable that one day everything will be connected to a level such that humans will lose ego identity wholesale and invididual frustrations cease to be as we recognise that the entire universe is one, smooth and seamless.