Hoors?!?
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Peace all,
Was reading this on the MWU forum and it sounded pretty interesting...
The Koran is beautifully written, but often obscure. One reason is that the Arabic language was born as a written language with the Koran, and there's growing evidence that many of the words were Syriac or Aramaic.
For example, the Koran says martyrs going to heaven will get "hur," and the word was taken by early commentators to mean "virgins," hence those 72 consorts. But in Aramaic, hur meant "white" and was commonly used to mean "white grapes."
Some martyrs arriving in paradise may regard a bunch of grapes as a letdown. But the scholar who pioneered this pathbreaking research, using the pseudonym Christoph Luxenberg for security reasons, noted in an e-mail interview that grapes made more sense in context because the Koran compares them to crystal and pearls, and because contemporary accounts have paradise abounding with fruit, especially white grapes.
http//muslimwakeup.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=586
It makes some sense...can anyone confirm the language bit??
Nadia
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Peace to all,
I am not sure if the link to this article has been posted around this forum ..
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/hur.htm
Umm I hope you are familiar with it .. it is a Free-minds.org link heh
But I found it to be the best source of understanding for this whole hur / companion mixup.
This article seems excellent.
Has someone seen errors in it ?Why were not these findings included in Free-Minds Quran translation ?
Peace
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Hello all
Hwaryoon is totally differnt word to Hour
Hawareyyun is already a plural and Hour is also a plural brickwall
so how come you make the two words the same?
well it has to be the flawed root method
good luck with that
Salam
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Hello all
Hwaryoon is totally differnt word to Hour
Hawareyyun is already a plural and Hour is also a plural brickwall
so how come you make the two words the same?
well it has to be the flawed root method
good luck with that
Salam
Who said that these 2 words are the same ?
Anyway, how do you translate hoorin Aaeenin (from ) ?
Peace
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Who said that these 2 words are the same ?
Well, I'm getting it ready just in case anyone claims that they are the same, someone already posted the second word while the discussion relates to the first, obvioulsy they used the flawed root method
Anyway, how do you translate hoorin Aaeenin (from ) ?
Peace
well, I will take the prophet explanation to it because the two words together are hardly been used, only each on its own are used commonly, i.e Hoor or Ein on its own
Hoor is the plural of Horiah, Horiah is a beautiful woman
Ein is the Eye
it sounds like the Hoor are very beautiful women that the Eyes of the men will go like WOW when they see them, you know sort of a shock to eyes and the ye will go really wide
at the end of the day they are beautiful women
some suggest that Hoor also applies to beautiful men as well, which is fine with me to also consider because it will not create a contradiction in the Quran under that meaning
Salam
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Well, I'm getting it ready just in case anyone claims that they are the same, someone already posted the second word while the discussion relates to the first, obvioulsy they used the flawed root method
well, I will take the prophet explanation to it because the two words together are hardly been used, only each on its own are used commonly, i.e Hoor or Ein on its own
Hoor is the plural of Horiah, Horiah is a beautiful woman
Ein is the Eye
it sounds like the Hoor are very beautiful women that the Eyes of the men will go like WOW when they see them, you know sort of a shock to eyes and the ye will go really wide
at the end of the day they are beautiful women
some suggest that Hoor also applies to beautiful men as well, which is fine with me to also consider because it will not create a contradiction in the Quran under that meaning
Salam
So, if both hoor and ein are noons, hoor meaning ?beautiful women? and ein meaning ?eye?, hoorin Aaeenin would mean ?beautiful women eyes?.
Would it not sound a bit strange ?Why would not hoor be an adjective of ein, hoor meaning ?pure??
Peace
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So, if both hoor and ein are noons, hoor meaning ?beautiful women? and ein meaning ?eye?, hoorin Aaeenin would mean ?beautiful women eyes?.
Would it not sound a bit strange ?that is if you take the eye as part of the hoor, and as i said for me it is not part of the eye rather the eye is part of those who will see the hoor, this is a common use in Arabic and I believe there are a few examples in the Quran I have to look for it when I have some time
Why would not hoor be an adjective of ein, hoor meaning ?pure??
No way, if there is an adjectivbe then the Ein is the adjective and not the hoor
Salam
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that is if you take the eye as part of the hoor, and as i said for me it is not part of the eye rather the eye is part of those who will see the hoor, this is a common use in Arabic and I believe there are a few examples in the Quran I have to look for it when I have some time
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No way, if there is an adjectivbe then the Ein is the adjective and not the hoor
Why ?
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There was an error in my comment, here it is again
that is if you take the eye as part of the hoor, and as i said for me it is not part of the hoor rather the eye is part of those who will see the hoor, this is a common use in Arabic and I believe there are a few examples in the Quran I have to look for it when I have some time
Why ?
because the adjective must be the second word not the first
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There was an error in my comment, here it is again
that is if you take the eye as part of the hoor, and as i said for me it is not part of the hoor rather the eye is part of those who will see the hoor, this is a common use in Arabic and I believe there are a few examples in the Quran I have to look for it when I have some time
I still don?t understand.
Could you quote the examples you are talking about ?because the adjective must be the second word not the first
Yes, indeed.
Are there no exceptions to this rule ?Peace
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I still don?t understand.
Could you quote the examples you are talking about ?when I have some free time
Yes, indeed.
Are there no exceptions to this rule ?Peace
Never heard of any excpetion regarding adjectives
Salam
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PEace all
i didn't read the whole thread but what is the big deal if the quran said you'll find virgins in heaven?is that a bad thing? i think every culture in the entire world values virginity even if they behave in unchaste ways. i've heard many americans say sleeping with a virgin is a thousand times better than sleeping with a non-virgin. sorry for being blunt about it.
so why the big deal if that would be something God mentions as a reward in heaven? stop trying to bend over backwards to try to run away from what things really say out of fear of being labeled backwards. Have you ever stopped to wonder who is making that label and for what purpose?
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Peace Bro PHoenix
is it bad if the quran DOESN'T say we'll get virgins in heaven?
its not bad IF the quran doesn't say we'll get virgins in heaven but we're not talking about what it doesn't say.
I don't think this whole virgin thing makes any sense, to be honest with you.
I don't see why it doesn't make sense to you.
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In my opinion, it's about the way people look at things.
Some people are not satisfied with translations because something rings wrong with them, be it self induced or something actually wrong with the translation (all we can do is decide by analysing what is on offer, e.g. their explanations etc and come to a better understanding of the whole picture). Thus, when anyone looks for a better translation, it's normally because there is something that seems off with the current, it might be contradicting another verse or going against a general concept etc. Whatever the case, the quran itself invites indepth analysis of itself so any reason to do it, is a good thing in the long run.
so why the big deal if that would be something God mentions as a reward in heaven? stop trying to bend over backwards to try to run away from what things really say out of fear of being labeled backwards. Have you ever stopped to wonder who is making that label and for what purpose?
The question isn't about bending over backwards and IF there are virgins we should accept it. It's just an interesting analysis over what it could be, possible mistranslations, sociopolitical spins to it through the ages and so on. In any case, questioning and analysing the quran is generally beneficial. It's true that some take it too far (on both sides of the fence) and we should strive for a healthy balance.
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This is very important topic being discussed and as usual Muslims are confused on it each and every one has his own explanation.
To dig it out first of all we have to see what actually does the word Hoor as used in Quran means?
Looking at the Arab society at that time and all the related stories lead us to the word meaning "Beautiful women" with big eyes or white colour bla bla...
But then this is Quran we are talking about, which is word of God and without any error and Allah has to be just with men and women, so we can't just depend upon stories, we have to reserach it out.
In this quest some go as far as talking about cosmology and some restrict to heresay chains.Ahmad Bhagat wrote
Hoor is the plural of Horiah, Horiah is a beautiful woman
And your source please?
Some say
hryah (Arabic ‎ are described as "pure beings" or "companions pure" of paradise
The Arabic word "Hur", which occurs four times in the Qur?an, is plural of "Ahwar" for the masculine gender and "Huwra" (or houri) for the feminine. Thus, the huriyah may be male or female, either of which describes a person distinguished by "hawar", meaning "purity
So Mr. Bhagat even if you speak Arabic how are you so sure about your translation, offcourse we also want to know how the others are sure about theirs.Boost
i didn't read the whole thread but what is the big deal if the quran said you'll find virgins in heaven?
is that a bad thing? i think every culture in the entire world values virginity even if they behave in unchaste ways.Well; we have to take this statement seriously.
Problem arises when influenced by west or others, we start thinking as they do, and we want to see Quran as we think.Problem is due to following assertion
Man and Woman are equal so if they are equal, why men get beautiful ladies and Ladies will have to restrict to their 100 times used husbands and those who are not married will have to reamin without it even in paradise?
Can any one quote to me a single verse in Quran which states Men and Women are equal? Be care ful!
But if we take the translation as of women and men both then
Major problem with the word Hoor is that
Why at the first place Allah offers Hoors whatever the translation to it be, because if we are able to understand that then only we can exactly come to know what a HOOR is?
"Thus shall it be. And We shall pair them with companions pure, most beautiful of eye."
Verses before and after this verse are describing the disbelievers and righteous, so Allah is offering to righteous mates virgin and beautiful to Men and Women no doubt about that, offcourse grapes as some of posters said is not appropriate translation, Opposite sex, living for ever and easy life can be an attraction but Grapes doesnot make any sense here.
Now pure I think is Virgin here?In these will be mates of modest gaze, whom neither man nor invisible being will have touched then."
or
Their beautiful mates were never touched by any human or jinn.Which of your Lord's marvels can you deny?
So these mates are made for a specific purpose, to entertain righteous Men and Women.
Considering Human nature we want reward for any thing we do!
Allah considering the nature of Humans offers them Beautiful mates if they are righteous.So one thing is clear Allah offers reward for righteous in shape of Beautiful mates in addition to the earthly couples themselves.
This is what I understand from Quranic verses right or wrong; is open for discussion.
Al-mahroom wrote
So , Even in Heaven The Girls ( Virgins ) will still Be Play-Things for The Men ? are these Virgins Entitled to 70 Spunky Guys as well ?
First of all there is no such a thing as 70 or 72 mentioned in Quran, secondly let us consider that girls are play things here in this world and in future world, then what?..........
Please let me here your argument then what if girls are play things for men? -
Peace Boost, all
is that a bad thing? i think every culture in the entire world values virginity even if they behave in unchaste ways. i've heard many americans say sleeping with a virgin is a thousand times better than sleeping with a non-virgin. sorry for being blunt about it.
Sorry to tell you boost but a virgin is a virgin just once...if u get what i mean. And to my knowledge, 20% of virgins are not recognized as such this one time, which in some countries can be their death sentence. Virgins , or rather women which did not have children yet are narrower, which could be more pleasurable for a guys - especially if he's "small" >
This virgin stuff is just macho behaviour ; it's about taking something only for urself and even very often about giving pain at the same time. The most rewarding sexual encounter is one that is shared with love and mutual pleasure.
And IMO quran puts the acccent on chastity, which is not the same as virginity.
Just my 2 pence.
Elke