'Gender Jihad' in the Service of Women's Right

Mazhar

Read both the verses in context, It is about Women, and Mariam is told to BOW down with Women, where did you include the word MEN? it says bow down with those who Bow? where do you get the impression it says with MEN?

It shows that you do not even know the first lessons of Arabic. A masculine plural is not used for a group of women alone.

Ayisha

3.34 also says she was bowing in seclusion then tells her to bow with the others who bow.

First you are mentioning wrong Ayat number.
3.43

Second you again are tricked by the inserting of MAZHAR.
Wrong, i actually looked it up myself, which you could also do

Ayisha

Ayisha

Ridiclous.
Read both the verses in context, It is about Women, and Mariam is told to BOW down with Women, where did you include the word MEN? it says bow down with those who Bow? where do you get the impression it says with MEN?
I didnt say men, I said 'those who bow down' is using the mascuine, Mazhar confirmed it was plural

Quran
He sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses - which constitute the essence of the scripture -as well as multiple-meaning or allegorical verses. Those who harbor doubts in their hearts will pursue the multiple-meaning verses to create confusion, and to extricate a certain meaning. None knows the true meaning thereof except GOD and those well founded in knowledge. They say, "We believe in this - all of it comes from our Lord." Only those who possess intelligence will take heed.

yet its you that ignores some verses in favour of others. This verse is not allegorical nor does it have multiple meanings.

Mazhar

Quran
He sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses - which constitute the essence of the scripture -as well as multiple-meaning or allegorical verses. Those who harbor doubts in their hearts will pursue the multiple-meaning verses to create confusion, and to extricate a certain meaning. None knows the true meaning thereof except GOD and those well founded in knowledge. They say, "We believe in this - all of it comes from our Lord." Only those who possess intelligence will take heed.

Don't attribute it to Grand Qur'aan. That did not say this. Qur'aan calls those Ayaat as "Active Participle" and you picked up trasnslation of those who at their own substitue the words given by Allah by converting it into a Passive participle.

And again since those translaors and you does not differentiate between feminine and masculine words that is why the second red part which is not in Qur'aan.

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and other than those are Aa'ya'at that explain hidden physical facts with metaphors.

Ayat 307

Raaajah

Ayisha

I didnt say men, I said 'those who bow down' is using the mascuine, Mazhar confirmed it was plural

You were clever enough to understand the difference. Mazhar is wrong!

Agreed that it is a masculine plural, then according to Arabic rules there could be 1 man to many men, and as I have pointed out mariam was in enclosure and the only person interacting with her at that time was Zakria and probably she was pregnant, Allah ordered her to prostarte with Zakria as Imam.
Secondly It could be argued it just means to prostrate with those others who do so but not necessarily grouped in the same place, the question is how could Mazhar, come to conclusion that "SHE WAS ORDERED TO BOW IN COMPANY OF MEN" he is totally misguided.

Ayisha

Wrong, i actually looked it up myself, which you could also do

Where? does it say she was ordered to bow down in company of MEN?

Mazhar

AyishaYou were clever enough to understand the difference. Mazhar is wrong!

Agreed that it is a masculine plural, then according to Arabic rules there could be 1 man to many men, and as I have pointed out mariam was in enclosure and the only person interacting with her at that time was Zakria and probably she was pregnant, Allah ordered her to prostarte with Zakria as Imam.
Secondly It could be argued it just means to prostrate with those others who do so but not necessarily grouped in the same place, the question is how could Mazhar, come to conclusion that "SHE WAS ORDERED TO BOW IN COMPANY OF MEN" he is totally misguided.

Ayisha
Where? does it say she was ordered to bow down in company of MEN?

A very fast journey from stupidity to become purposely editot and that too for nothing except to differ.

An ediot is he who does not accept a simple fact that a simple plural active participle referring to human beings means men and only men.

And another stupidity just for sticking to thought that somehow got entered into mind is this
"and as I have pointed out mariam was in enclosure and the only person interacting with her at that time was Zakria and probably she was pregnant, Allah ordered her to prostarte with Zakria as Imam".

The pregnancy is much after this episode. First Zakaria alahissalam will get the sone Yahya alahissalam.

Raaajah

Mazhar

The pregnancy is much after this episode. First Zakaria alahissalam will get the sone Yahya alahissalam
.

You really are an arrogant person. Stupid are those who think they know what only allah and his prophet knows.
I said she probably was pregnant because she was in enclosure.
It is most likely that when Zakria saw her pregnant, he asked from Lord that if she can get pregnant without a man touching her, why can't my wife, from me, even though if i am old? That makes sense. But Zakria praying for children just after that there was food for Mariam, doesnot make any sense.

And to support this read the following
During their respective pregnancies, it is reported that Maryam was visited by her sister, whereupon Yahya, inside her belly, ?leapt for joy? according to the account found in Luke?s Gospel, but in al-Tabari it says Ashba` said to Maryam ?I feel that the one I am carrying in my womb has prostrated to the one you are carrying in yours.

Al-quran
This is news from the past that we reveal to you. You were not there when they drew their raffles to select Mary's guardian. You were not present when they argued with one another.

Mazhar just repent from what you inserted in allah's words "She was asked to bow down in the company of MEN"

Mazhar

You really are an arrogant person. Stupid are those who think they know what only allah and his prophet knows.
I said she probably was pregnant because she was in enclosure.
It is most likely that when Zakria saw her pregnant, he asked from Lord that if she can get pregnant without a man touching her, why can't my wife, from me, even though if i am old? That makes sense. But Zakria praying for children just after that there was food for Mariam, doesnot make any sense.

This is because you are not paying attention to what she said, which prompted Zakaria alahissalm to make a request there and then to Allah for a seemingly unprecedent happening of geting a child.

It is most likely that when Zakria saw her pregnant, he asked from Lord that if she can get pregnant without a man touching her,

Dear, Messengers of Allah do not presume things, as you keep presuming while wandering in air.

Ayisha

Mazhar.

You really are an arrogant person. Stupid are those who think they know what only allah and his prophet knows.
I said she probably was pregnant because she was in enclosure.
It is most likely that when Zakria saw her pregnant, he asked from Lord that if she can get pregnant without a man touching her, why can't my wife, from me, even though if i am old? That makes sense. But Zakria praying for children just after that there was food for Mariam, doesnot make any sense.

And to support this read the following
During their respective pregnancies, it is reported that Maryam was visited by her sister, whereupon Yahya, inside her belly, ?leapt for joy? according to the account found in Luke?s Gospel, but in al-Tabari it says Ashba` said to Maryam ?I feel that the one I am carrying in my womb has prostrated to the one you are carrying in yours.

Al-quran
This is news from the past that we reveal to you. You were not there when they drew their raffles to select Mary's guardian. You were not present when they argued with one another.

Mazhar just repent from what you inserted in allah's words "She was asked to bow down in the company of MEN"

wasn't inserting what you just did above in assuming probable and most likely?

talk about 'cannot see the beam in your own eye' and all that laugh

Ayisha

Mazhar.

You really are an arrogant person. Stupid are those who think they know what only allah and his prophet knows.

What Allah's prophet knows we know from Quran. There are things only Allah knows but that means only Allah and not His prophet or us. there is no such thing as 'only Allah and His prophet knows'

Mazhar

Let me give you the translation, I have attempted.
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Each and every time Zakaria had entered the sanctuary to meet her, he always found by her side some of eatables.
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He asked, "O Maryam! how/from where you get this sustenance?"

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She replied, "That is from the grace of Allah.
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Indeed Allah provides sustenance, to whomever He wishes, without measure/cause and effect relationship"
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Immediately there and then Zakaria prayed to His Sustainer Lord.

Surat Ale-Imran

Raaajah

That is my question? Why Zakria prayed for Children after finding some eatables beside Mariam? does that makes sense? Offcourse after getting inspired by she getting pregnant without a man touching her, Zakria thought why can not his wife bore him a child, from him even if he is old?

Eatables not equal to Children
Pregnancy Equals to Children

Raaajah

wasn't inserting what you just did above in assuming probable and most likely?

My inserting was based on account from Luke and Al-Tabari, in addition to Common sense, when verses read in context.

Mazhar

http//That is my question? Why Zakria prayed for Children after finding some eatables beside Mariam? does that makes sense? Offcourse after getting inspired by she getting pregnant without a man touching her, Zakria thought why can not his wife bore him a child, from him even if he is old?

Eatables not equal to Children
Pregnancy Equals to Children

You need a little study to understand the Arabic particles, which will give you a sense to understand the sequence of events mentioned in the Qur'aan. And from the point of view of common sense also, if he could enquire about the presence of eatables for no obvious source, if he had found her pregnant, would he not be utterly surprised and taken aback and ask her how has she become pregnant. And here you presume that she would have told her getting pregnant with the command of Allah without the touch of man. Just read the Aayat you will find that that is totally separate episode taking place much later in time.

Ayisha

My inserting was based on account from Luke and Al-Tabari, in addition to Common sense, when verses read in context.

and you still only got 'probably' and 'most likely'? It was still an insertion into the words of god which you berated Mazhar for doing and i think Mazhars 'insertion' was based on Quran and Arabic grammar of the words IN Quran, not an insertion as yours was.

Mazhar

and you still only got 'probably' and 'most likely'? It was still an insertion into the words of god which you berated Mazhar for doing and i think Mazhars 'insertion' was based on Quran and Arabic grammar of the words IN Quran, not an insertion as yours was.

Somewhere I had posted the basic points for study and then translation of Qur'aan. One point was that nothing should be inserted in parentheses on the basis of presumption or even inference except that which is specifically mentioned somewhere in the Qur'aan in the same context to make the point clear for such readers who do not have understanding of the intricacies of Arabic language. My utmost try remains to mention the Ayat of Qur'aan from where the material put in the parentheses is brought in. With my translation some get troubled by comparison with other translations, only for the reason that the majority of translators have never cared for the additional connotations attached to the verbs of various forms used therein and by taking them all alike, and/or without determining the role and function of a word in the sentence.

Raaajah

One last time, and then to you is your path and to me is mine

Her Lord accepted her a gracious acceptance, and brought her up a gracious upbringing, under the guardianship of Zachariah. Whenever Zachariah entered her sanctuary he found provisions with her. He would ask, "Mary, where did you get this from?" She would say, "It is from GOD. GOD provides for whomever He chooses, without limits."

There did Zakariya pray to his Lord, saying "O my Lord! Grant unto me from Thee a progeny that is pure for Thou art He that heareth prayer! While he was standing in prayer in the chamber, the angels called unto him "God doth give thee glad tidings of Yahya, witnessing the truth of a Word from God, and noble, chaste, and a prophet,- of the company of the righteous."
He said, "How can I have a boy, when I am so old, and my wife is sterile?" He said, "GOD does whatever He wills."

Why was Mariam in an enclosure?
Why was she cut off from the world?
Who was the person who interacted with Mariam? Why he only?
Was it first time he saw the food?
Did he being a Prophet did not knew that God can provide food if willing?
Why he asked for progeny (pure), after Mariam mentioned of provisions provided by Allah?
His mentioning of his age in his prayers? what does it mean?

Now read the following
Al-quran
And recall in the Scripture Mary, when she withdrew herself from her family to a place which was to the east
While a barrier separated her from them, we sent to her our Spirit. He went to her in the form of a human being

He said, "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you a pure son."

Therefore there is no room left Allah ordering her to BOW down in the company of MEN, she was not even in the company of her Family?
But the question is why she seperated herself from her family?

Now when you will find answers to above I think you will, not question me any more.

Al-quran
So she was pregnant with him, and she went to deliver in a far place

Fahad1

Feminism's One-Sided View of "Equality"

Ayisha

One last time, and then to you is your path and to me is mine

Her Lord accepted her a gracious acceptance, and brought her up a gracious upbringing, under the guardianship of Zachariah. Whenever Zachariah entered her sanctuary he found provisions with her. He would ask, "Mary, where did you get this from?" She would say, "It is from GOD. GOD provides for whomever He chooses, without limits."

There did Zakariya pray to his Lord, saying "O my Lord! Grant unto me from Thee a progeny that is pure for Thou art He that heareth prayer! While he was standing in prayer in the chamber, the angels called unto him "God doth give thee glad tidings of Yahya, witnessing the truth of a Word from God, and noble, chaste, and a prophet,- of the company of the righteous."
He said, "How can I have a boy, when I am so old, and my wife is sterile?" He said, "GOD does whatever He wills."

Why was Mariam in an enclosure?
Why was she cut off from the world?
Who was the person who interacted with Mariam? Why he only?
Was it first time he saw the food?
Did he being a Prophet did not knew that God can provide food if willing?
Why he asked for progeny (pure), after Mariam mentioned of provisions provided by Allah?
His mentioning of his age in his prayers? what does it mean?

Now read the following
Al-quran
And recall in the Scripture Mary, when she withdrew herself from her family to a place which was to the east
While a barrier separated her from them, we sent to her our Spirit. He went to her in the form of a human being

He said, "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you a pure son."

Therefore there is no room left Allah ordering her to BOW down in the company of MEN, she was not even in the company of her Family?
But the question is why she seperated herself from her family?

Now when you will find answers to above I think you will, not question me any more.

Al-quran
So she was pregnant with him, and she went to deliver in a far place

wrong. she was not even pregnant at that time.

The MOTHER of Mary
003.035
YUSUFALI Behold! a woman of 'Imran said "O my Lord! I do dedicate unto Thee what is in my womb for Thy special service So accept this of me For Thou hearest and knowest all things."

003.036
YUSUFALI When she was delivered, she said "O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child!"- and Allah knew best what she brought forth- "And no wise is the male Like the female. I have named her Mary, and I commend her and her offspring to Thy protection from the Evil One, the Rejected."

003.037
YUSUFALI Right graciously did her Lord accept her He made her grow in purity and beauty To the care of Zakariya was she assigned. Every time that he entered (Her) chamber to see her, He found her supplied with sustenance. He said "O Mary! Whence (comes) this to you?" She said "From Allah for Allah Provides sustenance to whom He pleases without measure."

003.038
YUSUFALI There did Zakariya pray to his Lord, saying "O my Lord! Grant unto me from Thee a progeny that is pure for Thou art He that heareth prayer!

Marys mother gave her daughter to the service of God and was in the care of Zakariya. She spent her childhood in prayer in seclusion. Zakariya asked for a child as pure as her.

003.039
YUSUFALI While he was standing in prayer in the chamber, the angels called unto him "Allah doth give thee glad tidings of Yahya, witnessing the truth of a Word from Allah, and (be besides) noble, chaste, and a prophet,- of the (goodly) company of the righteous."

003.040
YUSUFALI He said "O my Lord! How shall I have son, seeing I am very old, and my wife is barren?" "Thus," was the answer, "Doth Allah accomplish what He willeth."

003.041
YUSUFALI He said "O my Lord! Give me a Sign!" "Thy Sign," was the answer, "Shall be that thou shalt speak to no man for three days but with signals. Then celebrate the praises of thy Lord again and again, and glorify Him in the evening and in the morning."

THEN Mary is told she also will carry a child

003.042
YUSUFALI Behold! the angels said "O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.

003.043
YUSUFALI "O Mary! worship Thy Lord devoutly Prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down."

003.044
YUSUFALI This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Messenger!) by inspiration Thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary Nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point).

003.045
YUSUFALI Behold! the angels said "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah;

Also see Luke 1.

34Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37For with God nothing shall be impossible.

38And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

39And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;

40And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.

41And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost

So Mary was pregnant AFTER Elizabeth the wife of Zakariya and not at this time when Zakariya prayed for a child as pure as Mary, he was the father of John the Baptist.

Mary was a servant of God from her birth as was John.

Mazhar

He would ask, "Mary, where did you get this from?" She would say, "It is from GOD. GOD provides for whomever He chooses, without limits."

This is statement and perception of gossip mongers and story writers, not the statement of Qur'aan. Qur'aan is telling simple happening. "Each and every time Zakaria had entered the sanctuary to meet her, he always had found by her side some of eatables. He asked, "O Maryam! how/from where you get this sustenance?"
.