Differences in translation of verse 39:18
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First clarify that have you totally switched over from your earlier stance when you said about number of Ayaat that there "Qaul" means Grand Qur'aan?
wasting time, he has already said "The major issue , " why did you translate the word "Qauoul" in 39-18 as Grand quran " you gave me an example of 28-51, which i proved was irrelevant to the context of this ayah".
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wasting time, he has already said "The major issue , " why did you translate the word "Qauoul" in 39-18 as Grand quran " you gave me an example of 28-51, which i proved was irrelevant to the context of this ayah".
Not wasting time, once at five six places he says about "" it is Qur'aan but here he takes as many many "Qauls" and with absolute stupid insistence even does not see the pronoun attached to the last word about this "", and then the following Ayat which says about having been guided, and guidance is given only through Qur'aan.
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Not wasting time, once at five six places he says about "" it is Qur'aan but here he takes as many many "Qauls" and with absolute stupid insistence even does not see the pronoun attached to the last word about this "", and then the following Ayat which says about having been guided, and guidance is given only through Qur'aan.
in some places it could be Quran depending on context is what he's saying. he is asking you to explain and all you do is wait till after iftar and call him, and everyone else, stupid.
No guidence is NOT given only through Quran, it is given from GOD, so according to your statement now all previous messengers and people had no guidence as they had no Quran!
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in some places it could be Quran depending on context is what he's saying. he is asking you to explain and all you do is wait till after iftar and call him, and everyone else, stupid.
No guidence is NOT given only through Quran, it is given from GOD, so according to your statement now all previous messengers and people had no guidence as they had no Quran!
 The principle for guiding people has all along, in time and space, the same, the Book sent by Allah through the Messengers. Before Qur'aan Toraat and Injeel were source of guidance. Now the GUIDE is the Qur'aan. When I say this does it mean that the earlier people had no guidance?
You seem not interested in rebutting what I have already said as to why that refers to Qur'aan since neither he nor anyone else can deny what is stated in the verse, except escaping the argument by superfluous repetitions.
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The principle for guiding people has all along, in time and space, the same, the Book sent by Allah through the Messengers. Before Qur'aan Toraat and Injeel were source of guidance. Now the GUIDE is the Qur'aan. When I say this does it mean that the earlier people had no guidance?
You seem not interested in rebutting what I have already said as to why that refers to Qur'aan since neither he nor anyone else can deny what is stated in the verse, except escaping the argument by superfluous repetitions.
Quran says those that follow their scripture are not wrong too, so Quran is not defined as their only source of guidence NOW is it.
the point is that you have put Quran where God said WORD and as siki pointed out God says Quran or Word or Book specifically and if He wanted to use Quran he would have. It is not your place to define which He meant when He said Word and you should use what He gave you and not lead people reading it, which you are doing.
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Quran says those that follow their scripture are not wrong too, so Quran is not defined as their only source of guidence NOW is it.
About this false perception of yours, somewhere I had requested you to look at the Arabic text and see whether it is regarding the past times or present times. You seem to have not liked to see the Arabic text of Qur'aan on the subject.
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The principle for guiding people has all along, in time and space, the same, the Book sent by Allah through the Messengers. Before Qur'aan Toraat and Injeel were source of guidance. Now the GUIDE is the Qur'aan. When I say this does it mean that the earlier people had no guidance?
You seem not interested in rebutting what I have already said as to why that refers to Qur'aan since neither he nor anyone else can deny what is stated in the verse, except escaping the argument by superfluous repetitions.
Mazhar
salam brother
It seems as if you are of the opinion, "That Allah mistakenly used the word instead of in all these ayahs, and hence you need to correct this for HIM. It was OK if you mistakenly thought so, but when i have clearly explained you the implication of its usage, your insistence is beyond my comprehension.
I was looking forward to discussing the pended secondary issue, but you seem unable to grasp and move on. kindly re read my reasons for such an objection with open mind, and re evaluate your stance.
peace
siki
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Mazhar
salam brother
It seems as if you are of the opinion, "That Allah mistakenly used the word instead of in all these ayahs, and hence you need to correct this for HIM. It was OK if you mistakenly thought so, but when i have clearly explained you the implication of its usage, your insistence is beyond my comprehension.
I was looking forward to discussing the pended secondary issue, but you seem unable to grasp and move on. kindly re read my reasons for such an objection with open mind, and re evaluate your stance.
peace
siki
Dear Siki, I make another attempt from another angle and with different word, to bring home to you that how Qur'aan is referred without the use of word Qur'aan.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/010.%20Yunus%20alahissalam/Temp%2001%2010.108.gif
You, the Messenger pronounce, "Indeed the Statement of Established Fact/Grand Qur'aan has since come to you people from your Sustainer Lord.
Here is the subject/doer of the verb before it. Who has come to people? the Grand Qur'aan.
And it is the solitary source of guidance to success in hereafter
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/010.%20Yunus%20alahissalam/Temp%2001%2010.108a.gif
Therefore/in response whoever is guided then undoubtedly he guides/leads on the way only for his own self.
Yunis 10108
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Dear Siki, I make another attempt from another angle and with different word, to bring home to you that how Qur'aan is referred without the use of word Qur'aan.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/010.%20Yunus%20alahissalam/Temp%2001%2010.108.gif
You, the Messenger pronounce, "Indeed the Statement of Established Fact/Grand Qur'aan has since come to you people from your Sustainer Lord.
Here is the subject/doer of the verb before it. Who has come to people? the Grand Qur'aan.
And it is the solitary source of guidance to success in hereafter
nope No, Brother,
You cant do this, when Allah uses ,"" or or or for his speech they cant be translated as "Grand Quran" due to reasons that i have listed in my previous posts. Only the word can be translated as Grand Quran.
Down below you will find every translation of 10-108 that i could find , translating the word as truth, NOT a single one has translated it as Quran,
I am sorry that i had to finally summon such a lousy argument in my support , because i strongly believe that purifying divine message is an on going process and majority agreeing on something doesn't mean anything, and somebody can always improve upon it. You could have been the one, but in my opinion your suggested improvement defies reason.
- Muhammad Asad SAY "O mankind! The truth from your Sustainer has now come unto you.
2.M. M. Pickthall Say O mankind! Now hath the Truth from your Lord come unto you.
3.Shakir Say O people! indeed there has come to you the truth from your Lord,
4.Yusuf Ali Say "O ye men! Now Truth hath reached you from your Lord! - Say to them Muhammad "O you people, now has the truth come to you from Allah,
- Say "O people, the truth has come to you from your Lord,
7.Abdel Haleem Say, ?People, the Truth has come to you from your Lord.
8.Abdul Majid Daryabadi Say thou O mankind! the truth hath surely come unto you from your Lord
9.Ahmed Ali Say "You, you the people, the truth had come to you from your Lord,
10.Aisha Bewley Say ?Mankind! the truth has come to you from your Lord.
11.Ali ?nal Say "O humankind! Assuredly there has come to you the truth from your Lord.
12.Ali Quli Qara'i Say, ?O mankind! The truth has already come to you from your Lord.
13.Amatul Rahman Omar Say,O you people! there has come to you the truth from your Lord, 14.Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali Say, O you mankind! The Truth has already come to you from your Lord. 15.Muhammad Sarwar (Muhammad), say, "People, truth has certainly come to you from your Lord. 17.Muhammad Taqi Usmani Say, .O people, the truth has come to you from your Lord. 18.Shabbir Ahmed Say, "O Mankind! Now has come to you the Truth from your Lord. 19.Syed Vickar Ahamed Say "O you men! Now the Truth has reached you from your Lord! 20.Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) Say, "O mankind, the truth has come to you from your Lord, 21.Farook Malik SAY "O mankind! The truth from your Sustainer has now come unto you. 22.Bijan Moeinian Say ?O mankind, the truth has been revealed to you by your Lord. Faridul Haque Say, "O people! The truth * has come to you from your Lord; 23.Hasan Al-Fatih Qaribullah Say 'O people! The truth has come to you from your Lord. 24.Maulana Muhammad Ali Say O people, the Truth has indeed come to you from your Lord; 25.Muhammad Ahmed - Samira Say "O men, the truth has come to you from your Lord, 26.Sher Ali Say,O men, now has the truth come to you from your Lord.
27.Yusuf Ali (org.) Say "O ye men! Now Truth hath reached you from your Lord!
28.Rashad Khalifa Proclaim "O people, the truth has come to you herein from your Lord.
29.Arthur John Arberry Say 'O men, the truth has come to you from your Lord.
30.Edward Henry Palmer Say, 'O ye people! there has come to you the truth from your Lord,
31.George Sale Say, O men, now hath the truth come unto you from your Lord.
32.John Medows Rodwell SAY O men! now hath the truth come unto you from your Lord.
I hate to tell you, that almost same is the case for the word , .Most of the translators have translated it as word/saying , i knew it from day one but i wanted to evaluate your reason for such a modification without a bias, or to put you under undue pressure. From my side I was all ears, waiting for you to come up with reasonable logic in support of your translation.
Should i take above quote of yours as correction of the mistake that i have pointed out?
peace
siki
- Muhammad Asad SAY "O mankind! The truth from your Sustainer has now come unto you.
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You cant do this, when Allah uses ,"" or or or for his speech they cant be translated as "Grand Quran" due to reasons that i have listed in my previous posts. Only the word can be translated as Grand Quran.
Only he understands who listens. First listen carefully. It is not translation, it is referring to Qur'aan. When it is said he is idiot, it is not translation of siki, it is reference to him, it is his description. Al Haqo refers to Qur'aan.
Correction is pointed out with respect to Subject of the verb; there I had earlier taken it as object. The Subject of the Verb is "Alhaqo" and only a stupid like you supported by Ayisa won't get it that it refers to Qur'aan and nothing absolutely nothing else.
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Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 085301 PM
Should i take above quote of yours as correction of the mistake that i have pointed out?
This is the reason that you keep forcing me to call you stupid. Without having compared what I have given the translation on forum and that which is on site, you have taken it to somehwere else, without seeing that I pointed out what is the maistake; Subject of the verb was translated as object of the verb.
Had you read that you would not have done the stupidity of giving translation of so many who have made the same mistake which I have corrected with reference to my own translation. Subject of the verb means who does/performs that act while object of verb is that who receives the action. Al Haqo is in nominative case and is the subject of Ja'a which has suffixed object pronoun "kum"-you people.
And after translating the word and placing slash Grand Qur'aan is mentioned to which the word refers. And if you look at the explanation by above translators you will find they also say it refers to Al-FurQan which again refers to Qur'aan.
Just one
Yusuf Ali with reference The Truth says The Furqan, the Criterion between right and wrong, has been sent to us from Allah. If we accept guidance, it is not as if we confer favours on those who bring us guidance. They suffer unselfishly for us, in order that we may be guided for our own good. On the other hand, if we reject it, it is our own loss. We have a certain amount of free-will, and the responsibility is ours and cannot be shifted to the Prophets sent by Allah. (10.10 -
When it is said he is idiot, it is not translation of siki, it is reference to him, it is his description.
peace be upon you brother
and only a stupid like you supported by Ayisa won't get it that it refers to Qur'aan and nothing absolutely nothing else.
May God bless you with more patience and wisdom.
Al Haqo refers to Qur'aan. The Subject of the Verb is "Alhaqo" and only a stupid like you supported by Ayisa won't get it that it refers to Qur'aan and nothing absolutely nothing else.
you have written grand quran with a slash / that means "and " it is not a referral but an alternate meaning, and alternate meaning in Arabic are as good as primary meaning. So basically you are trying to convey, that , look Allah forgot to use the word Quran , or may be Allah is too shy to use the word Quran but I am telling you that he actually means Quran by this word here.
it refers to Qur'aan and nothing absolutely nothing else.
So you mean the Truth from Allah is only contained in Quran? The truth did not exist before Quran? There were plenty of rightly guided people before the Quran was sent down, where did they get the truth from?
Brother , you are mentally so padlocked on Mohammad (pbuh) and things associated with him, that you are incapable of perceiving anything beyond your shell. You are no better than those around you who are brain washed to believe that God created the two worlds, only because of his love for Mohammad. For God's sake remove your Mohammad glasses for a while and look around, there is a world out there which existed before Mohammad, exists beyond Mohammad, and the things not related/relevant to Mohammad.
May God grant you some wisdom and manners.
siki
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This is the reason that you keep forcing me to call you stupid. Without having compared what I have given the translation on forum and that which is on site, you have taken it to somewhere else, without seeing that I pointed out what is the mistake; Subject of the verb was translated as object of the verb.
Sorry, my stupidity, i was too naive to think that sense would prevail so soon, forgive me, but then the way you have made that posting , 99.99% people would perceive , what i mistakenly perceived (you may like to cross check this from other forum members)
Had you read that you would not have done the stupidity of giving translation of so many who have made the same mistake which I have corrected with reference to my own translation. Subject of the verb means who does/performs that act while object of verb is that who receives the action. Al Haqo is in nominative case and is the subject of Ja'a which has suffixed object pronoun "kum"-you people.
The school that you learned Arabic from, I feel like sending a suggestion, "They must include some classes on use of common sense and mannerism in the curriculum.
peace
siki
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Sorry, my stupidity, i was too naive to think that sense would prevail so soon, forgive me, but then the way you have made that posting , 99.99% people would perceive , what i mistakenly perceived (you may like to cross check this from other forum members)
The school that you learned Arabic from, I feel like sending a suggestion, "They must included some compulsory classes on use of common sense and mannerism.
peace
siki
On the first page, after the post of Munzir, the author of the thread, you expressed your anger like this
let me tell you something before i start discussing the issue,
- I find you to be intellectually dishonest, because over a period of time i have observed that when, you are not able to answer for a mistake , you conveniently ignore the subject and start posting regarding a non issue or a small issue which you can prove,hence successfully diverting the attention of forum members from a blunder of yours. I have seen you doing this over and over . A genuine servant of God never does such a thing , he puts his ego aside , accepts his mistake , corrects it and moves on.
I am using soft words stupid and idiot which has relevance to brain, intellect which you are deliberately not applying; and seem to have made you hardened on the issue the claps of Ayisha.
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o o
Eg-
My worshippers who listen to the discourse and choose with deliberation the best course to follow as of forgiveness in lieu of retaliation. These are they who have the world all before them and Providence their guide and it is these who apprehend virtue as well as the voice from heaven.
How did arrive with all those words? Did he add his own understanding? Or tafseer? peace
He is not the only one , we have another such example right here with us on this forum , any guess? yes you are right , bravo It is our own Brother Mazhar
look at this , rotfl
39-18 those who make themselves attentively listen the Word/Grand Qur'aan thereby/resultantly they incline themselves to act/follow, in letter and spirit, the best course described in that/Grand Qur'aan
I fail to understand what is he trying to explain "From eardrum take it to memory for saving"? Does he understand that people who can read english, can understand what word "listen" mean? and if they are incapable of deciphering the meaning of word "listen" they would definitely be incapable of understanding his explanation. Moreover anybody who has the intellect to explore quran, for sure he can make sense of the word "Listen"
Here is one more, enjoy. eat
"so that they may conveniently save it in memory/remember and recall to orally narrate."
) These are just convenient picks from the same thread, want further enlightenment? visit his site , you could stumble upon some jewels.
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He is not the only one , we have another such example right here with us on this forum , any guess? yes you are right , bravo It is our own Brother Mazhar
look at this , rotfl
39-18 those who make themselves attentively listen the Word/Grand Qur'aan thereby/resultantly they incline themselves to act/follow, in letter and spirit, the best course described in that/Grand Qur'aan
I fail to understand what is he trying to explain (highlighted in red) "From eardrum take it to memory for saving"? Does he understand that people who can read english, can understand what word "listen" mean? and if they are incapable of deciphering the meaning of word "listen" they would definitely be incapable of understanding his explanation. Moreover anybody who has the intellect to explore quran, for sure he can make sense of the word "Listen"
Here is one more, enjoy. eat
"so that they may conveniently save it in memory/remember and recall to orally narrate."
) These are just convenient picks from the same thread, want further enlightenment? visit his site , you could stumble upon some jewels.
Allah had quoted about the attitude of people like you listen it attentively and then reread what have you said above;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/008.%20Al%20Anfaal/8.21.gif
And you people should never be like those who said "We have heard" but the fact is they do not listen.What is the difference between hearing and "listening"?
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/008.%20Al%20Anfaal/Temp%2001%208.22.gif
Indeed, in the sight of Allah the worst/irksome of the animals are the deaf and the dumb, those who do not reflect/interpret/differentiateSurat-8
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by siki , and alternate meaning in Arabic are as good as primary meaning.
by Mazhar , And from where you got this? Can you quote source?
yes i can, i got this inspiration from you dear brother.
Quote by Mazhar from post no 17 same thread
"Indeed from Allah has come to you people "An-Noor-Visible Light-Giver and guarantor of continuity of life" i.e. the Book that makes everything distinct/vivid/apparent/manifest/visible/perceivable to vision and mind.want more of it?
translation of Mazhar same thread,
"and they are the people, they are the men of wisdom who look into matters objectively without overlapping it with emotions/prejudices/biases/whims/caprices and conjectural myths.