Proof Qur'an-alone is Error
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@ Badr
You inspired me to summarise how I perform salaat
http//mesmorial.blogspot.com/2010/11/salaat-in-quran.html
Khuda hafiz
Salaat in the Qur'an Salaat according to Muhammad PBUH
POSITIONS
All positions of Salat are found in the Qur?an
Standing position same
?Then the angels called to him as he stood praying in the sanctuary That Allah gives you the good news of Yahya verifying a Word from Allah, and honourable and chaste and a prophet from among the good ones.?
Qur?an 339
?What! he who is obedient during hours of the night, prostrating himself and standing, takes care of the hereafter and hopes for the mercy of his Lord! Say Are those who know and those who do not know alike? Only the men of understanding are mindful.?
Qur?an 399
Bowing and prostration positions same
?And keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and bow down with those who bow down.?
Qur?an 243
?O Marium! keep to obedience to your Lord and humble yourself, and bow down with those who bow.?
Qur?an 343
?They who turn (to Allah), who serve (Him), who praise (Him), who fast, who bow down, who prostrate themselves, who enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil, and who keep the limits of Allah; and give good news to the believers.?
Qur?an 9112
The order is indicated same
?And when We assigned to Ibrahim the place of the House, saying Do not associate with Me aught, and purify My House for those who make the circuit and stand (to pray) and bow (ruku) and prostrate themselves.?
Qur?an 2226
We know that the above refers to prayer since the ?alternative? salaat is presented here
?And their prayer before the House is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands; taste then the chastisement, for you disbelieved.?
Qur?an 835
The placement of the hands on the knees whilst bowing is natural if one bows low enough. One should prostrate with the forehead touching the ground same
??you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration.?
Qur?an 4829
LENGTH OF PRAYER
There must be at least two prostrations as implied in 4102 same
?And when you are among them and keep up the prayer for them, let a party of them stand up with you, and let them take their arms; then when they have prostrated themselves let them go to your rear, and let another party who have not prayed come forward and pray with you.?
It is known from the Qur?an 4101 that prayer can be shortened in the case of an enemy being nearby and hence the shortest prayer includes one prostration.
Some will say that the shortening involves length and not the rak?at number. However this is vague and not in keeping with the Qur?an
?Surely your Lord knows that you stand nearly two-thirds of the night, and (sometimes) half of it, and (sometimes) a third of it, and (also) a party of those with you; and Allah measures the night and the day. He knows that you are not able to do it, so He has turned to you (mercifully), therefore read what is easy of the Quran.?
7320
There is no specific length for one unit (contrary to tradition) and therefore the shortening of salaat refers to units. See this ayah
?Not all of them are alike Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right) They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.?
Qur?an 3113
WHAT TO RECITE
?And recite what has been revealed to you of the Book of your Lord, there is none who can alter His words; and you shall not find any refuge besides Him.?
Qur?an 1827
?Recite that which has been revealed to you of the Book and keep up prayer; surely prayer keeps (one) away from indecency and evil, and certainly the remembrance of Allah is the greatest, and Allah knows what you do.?
Qur?an 2945
?Not all of them are alike Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right) They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.?
Qur?an 3113
TONE
?Say Call upon Allah or call upon, the Beneficent Allah; whichever you call upon, He has the best names; and do not utter your prayer with a very raised voice nor be silent with regard to it, and seek a way between these.?
Qur?an 17110
WORDS
?So when you recite the Quran, seek refuge with Allah from the accursed Shaitan.? same
Qur?an 1698
(Personally I recite Sura 114, An-Nas).
Al-Fatiha
?And certainly We have given you seven of the oft-repeated (verses) and the grand Quran.? same the prophet said theres no prayer without al fatiha
Qur?an 1587
Recite as many ayat as is easy (7320). same ma tayassara min al quran
WHAT TO RECITE WHILST BOWING AND PROSTRATING (SUGGESTIONS)
BOWING
?And say (All) praise is due to Allah, Who has not taken a son and Who has not a partner in the kingdom, and Who has not a helper to save Him from disgrace; and proclaim His greatness magnifying (Him).?
Qur?an 17111
(Note ?proclaim His greatness? implies reciting ?Allahu Akbar?).
?Therefore glorify the name of your Lord, the Great.? same subhan rabbi al Adheem
Qur?an 5696
PROSTRATING
(There are two prostrations per unit)
First prostration
?Say Believe in it or believe not; surely those who are given the knowledge before it fall down on their faces, making obeisance when it is recited to them.?
Qur?an 17107
?Glorify the name of your Lord, the Most High.? same subhan rabbi al a'ala
Qur?an 871
Second prostration
?And they say Glory be to our Lord! most surely the promise of our Lord was to be fulfilled. And they fall down on their faces weeping, and it adds to their humility.?
Qur?an 17108-109
?And glorify Him in the night and after prostrations.?
Qur?an 5040
The Shahada should be recited before or after (for me it is after) prayer sunni = in the middle (after the tahiyats and taslim and before the duaa)
?And return to your Lord time after time and submit to Him before there comes to you the punishment, then you shall not be helped.?
Qur?an 3954
The Shahada is
?I bear witness that there is no god but God, and I submit to the Lord of the Universe.?
This comes from
?Allah bears witness that there is no god but He, and (so do) the angels and those possessed of knowledge, maintaining His creation with justice; there is no god but He, the Mighty, the Wise.?
Qur?an 318
?But if they dispute with you, say I have submitted myself entirely to Allah and (so) every one who follows me; and say to those who have been given the Book and the unlearned people Do you submit yourselves? So if they submit then indeed they follow the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the message and Allah sees the servants.?
Qur?an 320
?Say I am forbidden to serve those whom you call upon besides Allah when clear arguments have come to me from my Lord, and I am commanded that I should submit to the Lord of the worlds.?
Qur?an 4066
To simply declare ?There is no god but God? is incomplete since even Iblis acknowledges this.
Sunni = taslim in the end
Khuda hafiz
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As mentioned it is similar without mentioning someone besides Allah (swt).
Peace
So you think that if we mention Muhammad in the shahada, we worship beigns beside Allah (like the christians for example) ?
That we have entered in the shirq (by associating someone to Allah) and that we will stay in jahannam eternally (as shirq = jahannam forever) ?
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Salaam brother,
As mentioned it is similar without mentioning someone besides Allah (swt).
No! It is not similar...
You are looking into AlQuraan for the way of Salaat you have been taught from your father/forefathers.
Instead, you need to look the way of Salaat how Allah wants from us.
For example
If my father goto a grave every Thursday and recite something by standing there.
AlQuraan support this also in 984
984
984 And do not make the contact prayer for any of them who have died, nor stand at their grave. They have rejected God and His messenger and died while they were wicked.This means I am look for in AlQuraan what I want, instead I have to look for in AlQuraan what Allah want from us.
We cannot please Allah by doing something that we feel it is good. But to please Allah, we have to search from AlQuraan and do what Allah wants from us.
Hope you got my point, inshaAllah.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan -
To simply declare ?There is no god but God? is incomplete since even Iblis acknowledges this.
Hmmm... Iblis also acknowledge
848
848 And the devil adorned their work for them, and he said No people can defeat you today, and I am by your side. But when the two forces came together, he turned back on his heels and he said I am innocent from you! I see what you do not see. I fear Allah, and Allah is severe in punishment.So, you are not gonna say this?
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan -
Hmmm... Iblis also acknowledge
848
848 And the devil adorned their work for them, and he said No people can defeat you today, and I am by your side. But when the two forces came together, he turned back on his heels and he said I am innocent from you! I see what you do not see. I fear Allah, and Allah is severe in punishment.So, you are not gonna say this?
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. KhanSee how you are a bunch of activists like the 1st poster said, you are also in contradiction amongst yourselves ; you first claims that anyone have to pray the way he wants then you want to make him pray according to your own understandings. Pathetic !
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See how you are a bunch of activists like the 1st poster said, you are also in contradiction amongst yourselves ; you first claims that anyone have to pray the way he wants then you want to make him pray according to your own understandings. Pathetic !
Now who is telling whom to pray their particular way? The purpose of prayer is not a ritualistic set of words and/or motions. It is a remembrance.
About shirq
Tashahhud
You say "Peace be upon the Prophet...etc."
The Qur'an says
"Say. Surely my prayer and my sacrifice and my life and my death are (all) for Allah, the Lord of the worlds;"
Qur'an 6162
"Surely I am Allah, there is no god but I, therefore serve Me and keep up prayer for My remembrance."
Qur'an 2014
Now if you do not want to say that by performing 5 rituals as per the Sunni standards you are not dedicating at least a part of the prayer and its purpose to a human being, then you are free to. I am not telling you how to make salaat anymore than I can say who is more rightly-guided. I only follow the Word of Allah (swt) which is our complete guide to salvation.
Khuda hafiz
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See how you are a bunch of activists like the 1st poster said, you are also in contradiction amongst yourselves ; you first claims that anyone have to pray the way he wants then you want to make him pray according to your own understandings. Pathetic !
Helloooo!!! When did I claim that anyone have to pray the way he wants?
Nor I did say that everybody has to pray in the way I do?
You are fail again to search for errors in our posts instead of looking for the message in it.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan -
Peace.
Badr, did prophet/messenger Muhammad follow The Qur'an
or
did he follow The Qur'an, sunnah and hadeeth of Ibraheem?Because the way I see it - and I see it - he followed Creed of Ibraheem Islam.
Therefore, we follow Creed of Ibraheem, just like prophet/messenger Muhammad.
Simple.P.S.
Also, narrated by ONE MAN. I hope you remember 2282.This hadeeth is SAHIH HADEETH from Bukhary
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar Once the Prophet led us in the 'Isha' prayer during the last days of his life and after finishing it (the prayer) (with Taslim) he said "Do you realize (the importance of) this night?" Nobody present on the surface of the Earth tonight will be living after the completion of one hundred years from this night." (Book #3, Hadith #116)Remember The Qur'an, what it says in 2282?
2282 O you who believe, if you borrow for a future period, then you shall record it. And let a scribe of justice record it for you; and let not the scribe refuse to record as God has taught him. Let him record and let the person who is borrowing dictate to him, and let him be aware of God, and let him not reduce from it anything. If the one who is borrowing is immature or weak or he cannot dictate himself, then let his guardian dictate with justice; and bring two witnesses from among your men; if there are not two men, then a man and two women from whom you will accept their testimony, so that if one of them becomes blindsided, then the one can remind the other. And let the witnesses not refuse to come if they are called. And do not fail to record it no matter how small or large until its maturity. That is more just with God and better for the testimony, and better that you do not have doubts; except if it is a trade to be done on the spot between you, then there is no sin upon you if you do not record it. And have evidence if you trade. No scribe shall be harmed nor any witness; for if you do so then it is a wickedness on your part, and be aware of God and God teaches you and God is aware of all things.Peace.
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People argue too much.
There is no proof Quran alone is in error.
In fact all Muslims take Quran on it's own as divine. no one divines the hadith, but they try to.
there is no doubt some truth in hadith, some truth mixed with falsehood doesn't become a great guide.
people can falsify meanings in anything.
people can find comfort in conformity.
peoples problem is their dogmatic approach. what is the point in life? to emulate the prophet in all actions and deeds? are we simply producing clones? is that what God wants? Seriously?
just because someone prays 5 times a day, makes dua, grows a beard or dons a hijab, they're not automatically guided. there's more to life than that.
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People argue too much.
There is no proof Quran alone is in error.
In fact all Muslims take Quran on it's own as divine. no one divines the hadith, but they try to.
there is no doubt some truth in hadith, some truth mixed with falsehood doesn't become a great guide.
people can falsify meanings in anything.
people can find comfort in conformity.
peoples problem is their dogmatic approach. what is the point in life? to emulate the prophet in all actions and deeds? are we simply producing clones? is that what God wants? Seriously?
just because someone prays 5 times a day, makes dua, grows a beard or dons a hijab, they're not automatically guided. there's more to life than that.
+1. Great post.
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People argue too much.
There is no proof Quran alone is in error.
If you pray less than prescribed and facing the wrong direction, don't fast and think that tawaf isnt the thing to do wich makes all the hajj (if we suppose you believe theres a hajj) crumble then you are obviously in the wrong.
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If you pray less than prescribed and facing the wrong direction, don't fast and think that tawaf isnt the thing to do wich makes all the hajj (if we suppose you believe theres a hajj) crumble then you are obviously in the wrong.
And just like if you do things God never commanded, thus committing shirk etc you are obviously in the wrong too.
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There is no proof Quran alone is in error.
...that you know of.
people can find comfort in conformity.
and people can find comfort in going their own way and following their personal whims and desires.
peoples problem is their dogmatic approach. what is the point in life? to emulate the prophet in all actions and deeds? are we simply producing clones? is that what God wants? Seriously?
and Qur'an-alone is not your dogma?
For some men with limited intelligence, imitation of the prophet is salvation for them, because that is within their given capacity. Religion/deen was sent down to save the largest possible number of people. The point of life is to avoid hell fire above all else. Not everyone is blessed with the genius to interpret scripture or grasp metaphysical truth, and like children, these simple people just need to be led by someone more wise. This is why we have the example of the prophet and "those favor is upon them".
Would you carefully think about the last ayah of the fatiha? Allah did not say "the path of the Book", He (swt) said specifically, "the path of THOSE (i.e. people) favor is upon THEM", and then mentions to other groups (of people) to avoid. If this doesn't sink in, nothing will.
just because someone prays 5 times a day, makes dua, grows a beard or dons a hijab, they're not automatically guided. there's more to life than that.
Obviously true, but that doesn't mean there are not virtues in doing these things. There clearly are virtues in prayer and modesty. The beard grows by itself, it's more natural to leave it alone.
These things may not be guidance in themselves, but "supports" for the seeking of guidance. As for example, Allah Most High says in the Qur'an that salat is to effect self-discipline and restraint from bad behavior. If your salat is not accomplishing this purpose, then it isn't a virtue, it's just exercise. You're wasting your time.
In conclusion, I believe all this is really about moving knowledge from the head to the heart.
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What is that shirk that I am (and the likes of me are) doing ?
As salamu alaykum,
with all due Respect.Asociating prophet/messenger Muhammad with God.
You're falling into the same trap that followers of Jesus (later ones) fell into in regards with Jesus.
That is why people later on decided to start saying and Muhammad is His messenger. I'd say they wanted to exclude from those who were saying that Jesus was His son or that he also was God.You'd be saved, if only you dumped those extra books.
The only sunnah to be followed, brother, is the sunnah in The Qur'an.
The only hadeeth to be followed is The Qur'an.
Evidence 3923.God Bless ya.
Peace. -
For some men with limited intelligence, imitation of the prophet is salvation for them, because that is within their given capacity. Religion/deen was sent down to save the largest possible number of people. The point of life is to avoid hell fire above all else. Not everyone is blessed with the genius to interpret scripture or grasp metaphysical truth, and like children, these simple people just need to be led by someone more wise. This is why we have the example of the prophet and "those favor is upon them".
The above is a remarkably, astonishingly, horrifyingly weak argument. Does the qur'an condone having 'limited intelligence' ? That is a copout. These so-called "men with limited intelligence" almost undoubtedly appear that way because of the religious structures, coincidentally, in place that outlaw the use of said intelligence. What came first? These are not deficient human beings who must be coddled. You do the Creator of these human beings a great disservice with such an implication.
Your statement that not everyone is blessed with the genius to interpret scripture or grasp metaphysical truth, and must therefore be treated like children for their own benefit, is also at odds with much of what the qur'an stands for. Again, another huge disservice. The Creator created men with limited intelligence whose only reprieve is mimicry of a great man? And then sent a Book that is almost pointless because it wasn't sent for the masses as well? A book, you imply, that is so difficult to understand that you need to be a 'genius' to 'grasp'? Laughable.
In conclusion, I believe all this is really about moving knowledge from the head to the heart.
No, it's not. Not at all. This has nothing to do with knowledge, according to your own statements. We're dealing with people of "limited intelligence" who don't have the "genius" to "grasp" things, right? Nah, knowledge doesn't come into play here. Of the head, or the heart.
This is about control, fear, and suppression of thought.
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Badr
tawaf makes all the hajj? Why do sunnis do tawaf in umrah? Tbh i haven?t read a whole lot about hajj but tawaf doesn?t make it all, i can say that.Anyway if someone has the right intentions and tries to do good based on their knowledge and further tries to seek knowledge. I don?t see the problem there.
Let God judge them. You do what you think is right, you put your position/knowledge on the plate, whoever takes it good (or bad) for them. It?s not your place to tell them they?re wrong. Unless you?re going to prove it on facts, not opinions.
La yukallifu Allahu nafsan ila wusaha
abdullah_m
...that you know of.
No. Go ask any Muslim if they doubt any bit of the Quran, the Quran only. Just Quran. Ask which bit they doubt which bit is in error.
and people can find comfort in going their own way and following their personal whims and desires.
Conformity due to comfort can be a way of following personal whims and desires.
and Qur'an-alone is not your dogma?
I have a principle of beliefs i don?t claim it to be absolute truth, i refer back to God. I don?t dehumanise others nor outcast them. If you choose your path which appears to be sunnism, that?s your choosing your choice. To you is your deeds and to me is mine. I don?t have a problem with diversity i have a problem with people thinking they?re all right and everyone else is bound to hell. It?s called intolerance.
For some men with limited intelligence, imitation of the prophet is salvation for them, because that is within their given capacity. Religion/deen was sent down to save the largest possible number of people. The point of life is to avoid hell fire above all else. Not everyone is blessed with the genius to interpret scripture or grasp metaphysical truth, and like children, these simple people just need to be led by someone more wise. This is why we have the example of the prophet and "those favor is upon them".
I have to agree with CavemanDoctors comments. The brain is an amazing tool that works in wondrous ways. People, scholars, learned were once ?normal? people. They sought out knowledge just as what Quran asks of us. In fact even hadith attributed to the prophet Mohammed does too. So to claim one is incompetent stupid unintelligent is an excuse to conform, which is simply blind following laziness.
God didn?t say you have to learn everything in the world. Being led and blindly following are too different things. A bad teacher is one that gives answers a good teacher is one that guides students to find the answers. There?s a difference, if you don?t understand reflect on it.
Examples of the prophet are described in the Quran, if you don?t know there is a whole chapter of Anbiya 21, chapter on Mohammed 47 and other prophets too. Go look in the Quran index.
Would you carefully think about the last ayah of the fatiha? Allah did not say "the path of the Book", He (swt) said specifically, "the path of THOSE (i.e. people) favor is upon THEM", and then mentions to other groups (of people) to avoid. If this doesn't sink in, nothing will.
About the last ayah of fatiha, it doesn?t say ?the path of hadith?. Who are THOSE people on the path? You claim to know, share your knowledge.
Obviously true, but that doesn't mean there are not virtues in doing these things. There clearly are virtues in prayer and modesty. The beard grows by itself, it's more natural to leave it alone.
These things may not be guidance in themselves, but "supports" for the seeking of guidance. As for example, Allah Most High says in the Qur'an that salat is to effect self-discipline and restraint from bad behavior. If your salat is not accomplishing this purpose, then it isn't a virtue, it's just exercise. You're wasting your time.In conclusion, I believe all this is really about moving knowledge from the head to the heart.
They can be non-virtues. have you ever considered the one who prays to be seen? The one who dons the look to be known, to be praised? Truly only God knows what?s in the hearts of people and their actions.
If your salat helps you restrain from bad behaviour than good for you. do what you do that helps in that regard. I ain?t saying don?t.
